Eight Comedy Stereotypes that must die

[jfrancispastirchak]

Three people walked into a bar. They asked the bartender for a drink. The bartender served them their drinks.

Now THAT'S funny.

???

 

[PirateJohnny]

Three people walked into a bar. They asked the bartender for a drink. The bartender served them their drinks.

Now THAT'S funny.

???

It's a joke with no stereotypes.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Three people walked into a bar. They asked the bartender for a drink. The bartender served them their drinks.

Now THAT'S funny.

???

It's a joke with no stereotypes.

Hey, I get it now. Thanks.

 

[bpatrick]

Not really a comedy stereotype, but if I were from the South, I'd be quite annoyed by the practice of using subtitles when Southerners are speaking on TV, primarily on reality shows.

I suspect a lot of people outside the South wish closed-captioning had been available back in the days when Keith Jackson and Frank Broyles did ABC's college-football games. Jackson is from Georgia; Broyles was longtime coach at the University of Arkansas, and while, as a Southerner, I never had problems understanding either of them, a lot of people in northern (and maybe a few western cities) complained to ABC about their inability to understand either of them. Oddly, I never recall complaints about Don Meredith's Texas accent on "Monday Night Football," except for one viewer whose name and home state I forget who wrote to ABC during the first season of "MNF," when Keith Jackson was doing play by play (Frank Gifford was still under contract to CBS), complaining that ABC had a Georgian (Jackson), a Texan (Meredith), and a New Yorker (Howard Cosell), and couldn't understand any of them.

One of my pet peeves, when people speaking perfectly good English (accented or not) are subtitled. An insult to everyone involved, really.

 

[LKellerIII]

Not really a comedy stereotype, but if I were from the South, I'd be quite annoyed by the practice of using subtitles when Southerners are speaking on TV, primarily on reality shows.

I suspect a lot of people outside the South wish closed-captioning had been available back in the days when Keith Jackson and Frank Broyles did ABC's college-football games. Jackson is from Georgia; Broyles was longtime coach at the University of Arkansas, and while, as a Southerner, I never had problems understanding either of them, a lot of people in northern (and maybe a few western cities) complained to ABC about their inability to understand either of them. Oddly, I never recall complaints about Don Meredith's Texas accent on "Monday Night Football," except for one viewer whose name and home state I forget who wrote to ABC during the first season of "MNF," when Keith Jackson was doing play by play (Frank Gifford was still under contract to CBS), complaining that ABC had a Georgian (Jackson), a Texan (Meredith), and a New Yorker (Howard Cosell), and couldn't understand any of them.

One of my pet peeves, when people speaking perfectly good English (accented or not) are subtitled. An insult to everyone involved, really.

I never had a hard time understanding Keith Jackson. I guess he could get a bit colloquial in his commentary, but no more so than, say, Dan Rather. Jakcson was also an LA based sports anchor for awhile on the George Putnam News on KTLA.

 

[desertv]

Addition to the stereotypes and subtitles party..the new A&E reality show "Southie Rules" (as in SOUTH Boston)

 

[landtuna]

2. Dialogue is much more realistic these days. Actors talk like they do in real life, so they'll talk fast or mumble sometimes. Nobody emotes anymore.

I have noticed this on "Revenge" since the beginning of the show. Certain characters (Nolan, Aiden and Emily especially) are prone to mumble or whisper and I cannot understand them if listening on my TV. I either watch the show on my PC (which has very good speakers and no background noise) or with earphones.

So if I'm watching a show with hard to understand dialogue (especially stuff from the BBC, for example), I'll turn on closed-captioning.

I haven't needed to do that yet but I do use the same listening devices when watching "Downton Abbey" for instance. The differences in the various characters accents sometimes mask their words, especially if mumbled or away from the camera. It's generally not an issue when listening to just one voice (the news or a documentary for instance).

So I actually appreciate it when they throw in subtitles.

I find subtitles very distracting but I did have an amusing experience with them once.

I was in Hong Kong in the mid-60's and attended a movie theater showing of "Shenandoah" - the Jimmy Stewart film about a family affected by the American civil war. The theater was filled with Chinese people and I wondered how they would understand this very American story. The film had the normal sound and language and Chinese sub-titles along the right side of the screen.

As the film ran there were certain events that would elicit reactions from the crowd. The Chinese reaction was always a second or two behind ours since they had to read the sub-titles. What was interesting to me though was that the reactions were identical. Either happy, sad or whatever.

At the end of the movie we stood outside the theater having a smoke when the crowd exited. Those of you who remember this movie may also remember its very tearful ending. Sure enough, it didn't seem to matter whether you were Chinese or American....there were plenty of tissues in use that afternoon by all.

 

[audiomusiclover]

or, the most obvious one of all...

The Dad in a traditional nuclear family who is a bumbling, incompetent moron.

He is married to a woman 10,000 times smarter than he his, and even his youngest,
least-experienced children are constantly rushing to his aid to help bail him out of whatever
mess he created for himself this week.
He is the stated reason Bob Newhart would not allow the writers to give him children
on any of his sitcoms.

Amen to this one. We speak of this even at work. It seems every sitcom has males that are to be the show’s village idiot. They reflect the guys as lucky to have family or friends that can somehow pull them through the weekly situations. One or two shows like this I could stomach, but it is obvious that the Hollywood powers that be have little respect for the male characters anymore except for to be made fun of. It is sad as most young people watch this crap and do not see good male models. In fact, they portray them as the opposite and then we all wonder why our young males are growing up the way they are. Most network TV is brain rot now for sure.

 

[LKellerIII]

or, the most obvious one of all...

The Dad in a traditional nuclear family who is a bumbling, incompetent moron.

He is married to a woman 10,000 times smarter than he his, and even his youngest,
least-experienced children are constantly rushing to his aid to help bail him out of whatever
mess he created for himself this week.

Add to that, the casting requirement of these sitcoms: hot pretty wife, fat dumpy (usually older) husband:

-Courtney Thorne-Smith and Jim Belushi - According to Jim
-Leah Remini and Kevin James - King of Queens
-Jami Gertz and Mark Addy - Still Standing

 

[landtuna]

Not all sitcoms are cast that way.

The Middle for instance has a two-parent family setting that basically has equal parents offset by typical kids. Neither mom nor dad appears to be a model parent or stupifyingly dumb.

If you want to get into stereotypes consider the sitcoms of the 50's and early 60's. Smart, know everything dads. Moms who spent their time in the kitchen in apron and high heels.

Did any kid back then actually believe Ozzie Nelson, Robert Young, Hugh Beaumont or even Chuck Conners were accurate depictions of real fatherhood?

 

[LKellerIII]

Not all sitcoms are cast that way.

Of course not - I was referring to the comedies that portray the father or husband as a hapless compulsive idiot who has to be rescued from predicaments of his own making by his smarter and non-complusive wife and/or kids.

The wife is generally slim and pretty, while the husband is fat. Come to think of it, this stereotype could be said to go back to The Honeymooners. Though they dressed Audrey Meadows (Alice) in frumpy house-dresses, she was an attractive woman, and we all know Jackie Gleason was a "plus size" man.

The Middle does not fit that stereotype - it's more a depiction of total family dysfunction and two hapless parents - popularized by Malcolm in the Middle...minus the genius kid.

I never watched Ozzie and Harriet much, but in my memory, Ozzie was a bit hapless and scattered (though not fat), while Harriet was calm and composed.

As for Ward Cleaver - yes, he may have been "smart and know everything," but he always came off to me as a little cold and distant. I preferred my own father - a very imperfect man, but much more emotionally available.

Lucas McCain (The Rifleman) was a great dad, even though he killed somebody in practically every episode. ;D

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Not all sitcoms are cast that way.

Of course not - I was referring to the comedies that portray the father or husband as a hapless compulsive idiot who has to be rescued from predicaments of his own making by his smarter and non-complusive wife and/or kids.

The wife is generally slim and pretty, while the husband is fat. Come to think of it, this stereotype could be said to go back to The Honeymooners. Though they dressed Audrey Meadows (Alice) in frumpy house-dresses, she was an attractive woman, and we all know Jackie Gleason was a "plus size" man.

The Middle does not fit that stereotype - it's more a depiction of total family dysfunction and two hapless parents - popularized by Malcolm in the Middle...minus the genius kid.

I never watched Ozzie and Harriet much, but in my memory, Ozzie was a bit hapless and scattered (though not fat), while Harriet was calm and composed.

As for Ward Cleaver - yes, he may have been "smart and know everything," but he always came off to me as a little cold and distant. I preferred my own father - a very imperfect man, but much more emotionally available.

Lucas McCain (The Rifleman) was a great dad, even though he killed somebody in practically every episode. ;D

WOW !! You nailed it!

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Did any kid back then actually believe Ozzie Nelson, Robert Young, Hugh Beaumont or even Chuck Conners were accurate depictions of real fatherhood?

Maybe some, especially back then, but not in retrospect. An outspoken rebel of Father Knows Best, Billy Grey, who portrayed son "Bud", later blasted the show's peaceful, euphoric context, declaring it out of touch with reality, even "back then".

 

[landtuna]

Did any kid back then actually believe Ozzie Nelson, Robert Young, Hugh Beaumont or even Chuck Conners were accurate depictions of real fatherhood?

Maybe some, especially back then, but not in retrospect. An outspoken rebel of Father Knows Best, Billy Grey, who portrayed son "Bud", later blasted the show's peaceful, euphoric context, declaring it out of touch with reality, even "back then".

And if you REALLY want another prospective of the show and especially Robert Young read Lauren Chapin's autobiography. It is chilling.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Did any kid back then actually believe Ozzie Nelson, Robert Young, Hugh Beaumont or even Chuck Conners were accurate depictions of real fatherhood?

Maybe some, especially back then, but not in retrospect. An outspoken rebel of Father Knows Best, Billy Grey, who portrayed son "Bud", later blasted the show's peaceful, euphoric context, declaring it out of touch with reality, even "back then".

And if you REALLY want another prospective of the show and especially Robert Young read Lauren Chapin's autobiography. It is chilling.

Chilling indeed. I browsed through parts of her book at the library one day, but I was more disturbed by her off-camera trials than what she reported about the show.

 

[landtuna]

Of course not - I was referring to the comedies that portray the father or husband as a hapless compulsive idiot who has to be rescued from predicaments of his own making by his smarter and non-complusive wife and/or kids.

And all I was saying is that your example is but one type of sitcom. Consider I Love Lucy where the wife was the screwball and the husband an excitable but functional husband (most of the time).

A previous poster seemed to indicate that all current sitcom's were of the type you describe. I was trying to point out that sitcom's seem to run in cycles and that the "dumb/fat husband" is just our current cycle.

The wife is generally slim and pretty, while the husband is fat. Come to think of it, this stereotype could be said to go back to The Honeymooners. Though they dressed Audrey Meadows (Alice) in frumpy house-dresses, she was an attractive woman, and we all know Jackie Gleason was a "plus size" man.

A major part of Gleason's comic appeal was his weight/size. Art Carney was always mentioning it in The Honeymooners and Gleason himself used his oversized physical comedy ability on his later variety shows.

The Middle does not fit that stereotype - it's more a depiction of total family dysfunction and two hapless parents - popularized by Malcolm in the Middle...minus the genius kid.

I don't see Frankie and Mike as hapless but much more a representation of two middleweight parents struggling with normal kid-raising events.

And The Middle may not have the genius kid but it does have stereotypes. The overly emotional girl. The sports-addicted boy with the giant ego. The super smart little kid way too old for his years.

I never watched Ozzie and Harriet much, but in my memory, Ozzie was a bit hapless and scattered (though not fat), while Harriet was calm and composed.

Ozzie was not at all hapless but rather calm and collected and, at times, perplexed. Harriett played the stereotypical 1950's housebound mom who always dressed in skirt and heels and had dinner on the table promptly. Looking back on the show now it appears boring and making a big ado about nothing but it was typical for its time. I don't know what the radio show was like.

As for Ward Cleaver - yes, he may have been "smart and know everything," but he always came off to me as a little cold and distant.

Tony Dow (Wally) described the show as having a very strong moral backbone and the acting by both Beaumont and Billingsley was intentionally somewhat stiff and reserved. So was the acting by the other adults in the show (remember Lumpy's father having no sense of humor at all?). Tony also said it was done that way deliberately to "give the Russians" a sense of how the average American family lived. I don't know about that but I didn't know a single family that lived the way the Beaver's family did.

Lucas McCain (The Rifleman) was a great dad, even though he killed somebody in practically every episode. ;D

Another highly moralized show.

 

[landtuna]

Chilling indeed. I browsed through parts of her book at the library one day, but I was more disturbed by her off-camera trials than what she reported about the show.

Most of the book is what happened to her after she was off the show but she does go into some detail about the image that the producers wanted of Robert Young and how he did not live up to it with regard to the three children on the show and while the show was filming.

My intent was not to blast Young but rather to show that TV image can and usually is far different than the actual actor. In Young's case he was shown as a caring and compassionate father which is a role he did not fulfill with regard to his cast.

 

[KeithE4]

Did any kid back then actually believe Ozzie Nelson, Robert Young, Hugh Beaumont or even Chuck Conners were accurate depictions of real fatherhood?

Maybe some, especially back then, but not in retrospect. An outspoken rebel of Father Knows Best, Billy Grey, who portrayed son "Bud", later blasted the show's peaceful, euphoric context, declaring it out of touch with reality, even "back then".

It may have been out of touch with reality in New York, LA, or Chicago even then, but remember - this was the 1950s, where shows had to "play in Peoria" and other smaller cities in "Middle America." Advertisers still wanted to be associated with the "ideal American middle-class family," and there were plenty of suburban/small-city housewives to peddle laundry detergent to (or so they thought back then).

But the "Middle-American family" horse left the barn decades ago. It really didn't exist in the '50s any more than it does today. Advertisers figured that out, and decided they wanted wealthy urban viewers for the most part. New York and LA are where the money is; Peoria is just along for the ride. Nobody in their right mind would make a Leave It To Beaver or Father Knows Best in 2013. Even Married With Children is considered tame today.

 

[BD Sullivan]

Chilling indeed. I browsed through parts of her book at the library one day, but I was more disturbed by her off-camera trials than what she reported about the show.

Most of the book is what happened to her after she was off the show but she does go into some detail about the image that the producers wanted of Robert Young and how he did not live up to it with regard to the three children on the show and while the show was filming.

My intent was not to blast Young but rather to show that TV image can and usually is far different than the actual actor. In Young's case he was shown as a caring and compassionate father which is a role he did not fulfill with regard to his cast.

Sherry Jackson, who played the original daughter Terry on "Make Room for Daddy" has talked about how her time on the show progressively got worse during her five years there. She compared the blooper shows, where actors yuk it up when they mess up, to her program, where producer Sheldon Leonard would grab a mic and, in from of 300 people, sneer, “Do you think you can get it right this time?!” She also noted that Danny Thomas and the producers let her "brother" Rusty Hamer get away with murder on the set, and that Thomas one time griped because she blew a line just after she had fallen and injured her elbow. She also noted that Thomas was fooling around with Hamer's mother and hints at the notorious urban legend about Danny:

http://www.examiner.com/article/fro...by-my-memorable-afternoon-with-sherry-jackson

 

[LKellerIII]

Chilling indeed. I browsed through parts of her book at the library one day, but I was more disturbed by her off-camera trials than what she reported about the show.

Most of the book is what happened to her after she was off the show but she does go into some detail about the image that the producers wanted of Robert Young and how he did not live up to it with regard to the three children on the show and while the show was filming.

My intent was not to blast Young but rather to show that TV image can and usually is far different than the actual actor. In Young's case he was shown as a caring and compassionate father which is a role he did not fulfill with regard to his cast.

What?! How disillusioning. Robert Young wasn't really "fatherly" with his pretend kids on the set? Come on - next, your going to tell me he wasn't a real medical doctor, either. ???