End of TOC on WPLJ hd2????

[Lori Pollitt]

RF Burns - Go find someone else to argue with you. I can see you must have gotten burned and i was a sucker to buy into it. I won't bother to respond to any additional posts. Go pick on someone else, you're obviously just jealous.

 

[R. F. Burns]

This was originally a response to blatant publicity hype. This is not about jealousy. Now I'll address some of the other things that you wrote that were not valid. A majority of the medium market stations that used any of the Satellite Music Network/ABC 24 hour formats were rim shot stations that didn't put a competitive signal into their particular market. Full signal stations in the medium markets didn't need an automated babysitting service to run their stations. The rim shot stations did because their signal couldn't compete. The next issue is talent or lack of it. When it was still the Satellite Music Network, they specifically moved it from Mokena, Illinois, to Dallas because Texas is a right to work state and they wouldn't have to deal with unions and could pay employees minimally. It wasn't because the Dallas market has or had superior radio talent. It was about saving money and they knew it didn't really matter who they hired and what they paid them as long as they could run the automation, get the tones right and sound adequate for the few times per hour that they had to talk. When ABC took over, they figured out a way to get their operating expenses even lower by getting rid of anybody who made more than a certain amount of money for formats that babysat stations and they wouldn't lose affiliates no matter who they hired. ABC just corrected the hiring mistakes of the previous ownership. Next is the issue of Zippo being a legendary dj. I wouldn't throw around that term so loosely. Legendary djs mean djs like Dan Ingram, Bruce Morrow, Dick Biondi, Dr. Don Rose, Charlie Tuna, Robert W. Morgan, Larry Lujack and others of their ilk. Zippo and anyone else who was ever employed by any of those 24 hour formats is not on the same planet with any of those djs nor in the same solar system. Most of the legendary djs worked full time for an extended amount of time in either New York, Los Angeles or Chicago. In addition, the legendary djs didn't have their wives and girlfriends trying to get publicity for them. Last, but not least, if Westwood One had any faith that the new format would do well, they would have hired more than 3 djs. This means that over half the time, the format will be an automated jukebox. Then there is the issue about the age of an unsaleable audience for a format based on 60s music. Even the crappiest small market stations had to drop playing 60s music because they couldn't sell it because of the age of the audience. My guess is that Westwood One's attitude about this new format is that we're not going to invest much because we don't expect much. For the people who do want to hear 60s music, they have 10,000 other alternatives rather than hearing this format on a bunch of small A. M. daytimers with bad signals which is where this format is headed.

RF Burns - Go find someone else to argue with you. I can see you must have gotten burned and i was a sucker to buy into it. I won't bother to respond to any additional posts. Go pick on someone else, you're obviously just jealous.

 

[davideduardo]

. A majority of the medium market stations that used any of the Satellite Music Network/ABC 24 hour formats were rim shot stations that didn't put a competitive signal into their particular market.

Not true as an across the board statement. I used SMN in the late 80's in several North FL markets, including Tallahassee which is definitely a medium market. And we had it on a signal licensed to Tallahassee, not a rimshot. In fact, we picked SMN after looking at successful affiliates in places like Pensacola, Albany, Dothan, etc. And we felt it had a quality we could not match locally at a very good price.

Full signal stations in the medium markets didn't need an automated babysitting service to run their stations. The rim shot stations did because their signal couldn't compete.

Stations in very competitive markets where the dollars were spread too thin used satellite formats as a way of saving money so they could remain viable as Docket 80-90 did its double whammy of dropping in new stations and allowing rimshots to move closer in.

The next issue is talent or lack of it. When it was still the Satellite Music Network, they specifically moved it from Mokena, Illinois, to Dallas because Texas is a right to work state and they wouldn't have to deal with unions and could pay employees minimally. It wasn't because the Dallas market has or had superior radio talent. It was about saving money and they knew it didn't really matter who they hired and what they paid them as long as they could run the automation, get the tones right and sound adequate for the few times per hour that they had to talk.

I never found any of that to be true. The move to Dallas had a lot to do with costs, but also had to do with attracting talent... not as many people want to move to Chicago as to Dallas, due to climate, cost of living, crime, education, etc. And, for a "new technology" company, working without sometimes antiquated union rules was indeed a benefit.

When ABC took over, they figured out a way to get their operating expenses even lower by getting rid of anybody who made more than a certain amount of money for formats that babysat stations and they wouldn't lose affiliates no matter who they hired. ABC just corrected the hiring mistakes of the previous ownership.

No, they adapted to the reality of it being a business. In the mid-90's, stations started installing AudioVault systems and comparable hard disk storage systems and many found they could produce formats that ran unattended locally. And other entrants into the field offered interesting variants on remote delivery... ABC had to tighten up as the business model changed.

Remember, satellite was itself a replacement for tape delivered formats that ran on expensive hardware and which required some attention and lots of maintenance. Satellite was better... until a new "better" came along.

Next is the issue of Zippo being a legendary dj. I wouldn't throw around that term so loosely. Legendary djs mean djs like Dan Ingram, Bruce Morrow, Dick Biondi, Dr. Don Rose, Charlie Tuna, Robert W. Morgan, Larry Lujack and others of their ilk.

You are just totally off base here. You are naming talents from KHJ, KFRC, WLS and WABC... Top 5 market stations from the AM Top 40 days. There are plenty of talents who worked in the next tier of markets, such as Phoenix and Cleveland and Dallas and Houston and Miami who are just as good but who were not in a Top 5 market. Jim Zippo is one of them... and IMHO, every bit as good.

Most of the legendary djs worked full time for an extended amount of time in either New York, Los Angeles or Chicago.

Who says that the talent on WABC was that much better than KELP or KDES or KRIG or KERN or WSAI or WGRD or KENO or WORL or WAPE or WSGN or KLEO.... and dozens more like it in markets like Saginaw and Mobile (the legendary WABB) or Jackson or Oklahoma City or Jamestown, SD, for that matter!

In addition, the legendary djs didn't have their wives and girlfriends trying to get publicity for them.

Now that qualifies for a cheap shot award. I think it is pretty nice that Jim's wife shares his love for his career and helps spread the word. It is hard for radio spouses... constant moves, changes of format, odd shifts, quirky management and all that... and it's really great to see Lori cheering for Jim (Hey, that's what she trained to do!!!!).

Last, but not least, if Westwood One had any faith that the new format would do well, they would have hired more than 3 djs. This means that over half the time, the format will be an automated jukebox.

Morning, mid-days and afternoons, with the same team VTing the rest of the day and weekends. It is the model followed by many major market stations... except that some of those are only live in drives and automate middays, too. Welcome to technology and its ability to, when well done, be better than live.

Remember, when done by less than first rate talent, "live" is just "evil" spelled backwards.

Then there is the issue about the age of an unsaleable audience for a format based on 60s music. Even the crappiest small market stations had to drop playing 60s music because they couldn't sell it because of the age of the audience.

Many classic hits, starting with WCBS-FM, play some 60's. And the press release says that the core will be 70's with some 60's and some 80's... that's the current definition of Classic Hits.

So, even if they are targeting medium and smaller markets or less than full major market signals, there is a client base for 35-64 in markets that are not agency driven. In fact, many successful suburban stations and smaller market signals are much broader in their 60's and 70's coverage because they sell to a different client base... one that often does not have the 25-54 buy restriction in mind.

My guess is that Westwood One's attitude about this new format is that we're not going to invest much because we don't expect much. For the people who do want to hear 60s music, they have 10,000 other alternatives rather than hearing this format on a bunch of small A. M. daytimers with bad signals which is where this format is headed.

This format was developed to replace the Scott Shannon produced TOC. Look at the impressive lineup of stations TOC had, and note that few are "small AM daytimers" (although some are) and the format got well into the top 100 markets or the fringes of that. It's a very viable satellite format and one that appeals to stations that sell direct since the clients are generally right in the target demo.

You do get today's "Misanthrope Award" though, so nice going!

 

[Lori Pollitt]

David, we can always count on your expertise. Thank you.

One thing of note that WW1 is promoting in Good Time Oldies that will be different from TOC is " The music is up tempo and the presentation is full of energy, and personality driven."

Scott Shannon is legendary and great, but I truly believe Zippo will bring a lot of FUN back to the format along with the other changes WW1 is incorporating into GTO.

 

[Lori Pollitt]

David --- love your comment to RF Burns, "You do get today's "Misanthrope Award" though, so nice going!"

For anyone following this go to the Classic Hits 60s, 70s, 80s format forum. David has a lot more to say and so do I.