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Energy 92.7 San Fran NEWS

M

mynameismatt

Guest
From All Access:

FLYING BEAR MEDIA Top 40/Dance KNGY (ENERGY 92.7)/SAN FRANCISCO PD CHRIS SHEBEL makes an exit. Reach this very talented programmer at...
 
Re: Oh no......

> From All Access:
>
> FLYING BEAR MEDIA Top 40/Dance KNGY (ENERGY 92.7)/SAN
> FRANCISCO PD CHRIS SHEBEL makes an exit. Reach this very
> talented programmer at...
>
Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the end of Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement will be?
 
Re: Oh no......

> Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the end of
> Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement will be?

Mikeo :)<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: Oh no......

Well this is very untimely! Hopefully they won't pull the plug on dance for the second time LOL.<P ID="signature">______________
Sir Nigel</P>
 
Re: Oh no......

> > Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the end of
> > Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement will be?
>
> Mikeo :)
>
Hey, thats a good idea.
 
Re: Oh no......

> > > Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the end
> of
> > > Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement will
> be?
> >
> > Mikeo :)
> >
> Hey, thats a good idea.
>
yes yes yes!!!! very good idea SF needs his kind of programming taste that phoenix did not get dance in SF BAY needs to be on the progressive side leaning H.O.U.S.E more so then your so called trance pop dance tracks which was called euro dance in the 90's the adding of new music every week and a rotation of more than 200 songs of currents and recurrents which is adjusted every week to keep the station sounding fresh and not so predictable and knock out the really heavy urban sounding songs and stick to the dance version because why compete with WILD AND KMEL if you don't have to KEEP IT A NICHE FORMAT of strictly DANCE Like PARTY did the only problem with them in the last eight months was they stop programming and left it on auto pilot even at the very end they still had a higher book then energy does today if they hate corporate radio so much then why they sound like them
 
Re: Oh no......

With your train of thought and Mike O, you could take the station to zero in no time. I'm assuming you're a passionate listener of dance music and not someone who understands what radio's goals are?

> > > > Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the end
>
> > of
> > > > Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement will
> > be?
> > >
> > > Mikeo :)
> > >
> > Hey, thats a good idea.
> >
> yes yes yes!!!! very good idea SF needs his kind of
> programming taste that phoenix did not get dance in SF BAY
> needs to be on the progressive side leaning H.O.U.S.E more
> so then your so called trance pop dance tracks which was
> called euro dance in the 90's the adding of new music every
> week and a rotation of more than 200 songs of currents and
> recurrents which is adjusted every week to keep the station
> sounding fresh and not so predictable and knock out the
> really heavy urban sounding songs and stick to the dance
> version because why compete with WILD AND KMEL if you don't
> have to KEEP IT A NICHE FORMAT of strictly DANCE Like PARTY
> did the only problem with them in the last eight months was
> they stop programming and left it on auto pilot even at the
> very end they still had a higher book then energy does today
> if they hate corporate radio so much then why they sound
> like them
>
 
Re: Oh no......

> With your train of thought and Mike O, you could take the
> station to zero in no time. I'm assuming you're a passionate
> listener of dance music and not someone who understands what
> radio's goals are?
>
> > > > > Chris is gone. OH NO, I hope this doesnt mean the
> end
> >
> > > of
> > > > > Energy SF. Any ideas on who the new Replacement
> will
> > > be?
> > > >
> > > > Mikeo :)
> > > >
> > > Hey, thats a good idea.
> > >
> > yes yes yes!!!! very good idea SF needs his kind of
> > programming taste that phoenix did not get dance in SF BAY
>
> > needs to be on the progressive side leaning H.O.U.S.E more
>
> > so then your so called trance pop dance tracks which was
> > called euro dance in the 90's the adding of new music
> every
> > week and a rotation of more than 200 songs of currents and
>
> > recurrents which is adjusted every week to keep the
> station
> > sounding fresh and not so predictable and knock out the
> > really heavy urban sounding songs and stick to the dance
> > version because why compete with WILD AND KMEL if you
> don't
> > have to KEEP IT A NICHE FORMAT of strictly DANCE Like
> PARTY
> > did the only problem with them in the last eight months
> was
> > they stop programming and left it on auto pilot even at
> the
> > very end they still had a higher book then energy does
> today
> > if they hate corporate radio so much then why they sound
> > like them
> >
>

LOL.. radio? - honestly... do you have the right formula of what should and should not be played on fm dance radio???? What do you know about USA dance radio FM goals? - Nobody knows because every goal that has been made has been a complete failure. Nobody knows man. You cant bust on this guy for coming up with an idea and suggestion. Dance radio is not like a cookie cutter format.. There hasnt been any studies or research on this format.. nobody knows what can.. what will.. or what wont work in FM dance radio.

Im not trying to be negative... but its just too hard to predict. 1/2 the people hate the top 40 remixes.. 1/2 love them. most hate the hip-hop remixes... most love them. A few like the underground sound.. a lot hate it.. A lot like the vocals.. more think the vocals are too circuit sounding... The older people love the classic dance songs... but there are more younger people that hate them... it's really a no win situation and a very hard format to program on the fm dials.

IMO.. its now about only 2 formats... Sirius' "The Beat" or XM's "BPM" - which format do you think would work in SF? - thats the main question here.

<P ID="signature">______________
www.1Club.FM INTERNET RADIO STATION
30 Channels... 1 Club DOT FM</P></P>
 
How to fix dance radio

What needs to happen?

1. We need to see more crossover stations like Z or KTU. They need to mix hiphop and dance. Sure, the dance fans WILL WHINE AND CRY, but so what. We're not in the business of being concerned with the dance fans, we're concerned with finding NEW fans to the genre. You appeal to people that enjoy Top 40 and R&B, and introduce them to pop dance music.

2. Hopefully, over time, dance becomes as commonplace as hiphop or pop rock in the mainstream. This assumes that dance music goes from being faceless and voiceless (JP's words) to having quantified "stars". Pretty hard to remember the typical dance artist when they produce 1 song that's a hit then disappear forever.

3. With a renewed interest in dance, a certain level of programming would allow for deep house music to get played in limited quantities.

This endless discussion as to whether or not Dance music fans will accept a JT song in the mix is immaterial. That's not the audience you're trying to win people. The goal is quite simple. Market dance to people not listening to it. The best way to do that is put some dance in the mix with hiphop and perhaps Top 40.

Dance radio appeals to dance listeners. It does not lure others over. Poeple just don't turn it on and say "hey, this owns me". They need to be introduced to the music. You do that slowly using the best material you have.

Z103.5 and KTU have the right idea. So does most of Europe, where radio plays big dance pop songs. The music is alive and well in ALL these areas, on the radio and in the clubs.




> > >
> >
>
> LOL.. radio? - honestly... do you have the right formula of
> what should and should not be played on fm dance radio????
> What do you know about USA dance radio FM goals? - Nobody
> knows because every goal that has been made has been a
> complete failure. Nobody knows man. You cant bust on this
> guy for coming up with an idea and suggestion. Dance radio
> is not like a cookie cutter format.. There hasnt been any
> studies or research on this format.. nobody knows what can..
> what will.. or what wont work in FM dance radio.
>
> Im not trying to be negative... but its just too hard to
> predict. 1/2 the people hate the top 40 remixes.. 1/2 love
> them. most hate the hip-hop remixes... most love them. A few
> like the underground sound.. a lot hate it.. A lot like the
> vocals.. more think the vocals are too circuit sounding...
> The older people love the classic dance songs... but there
> are more younger people that hate them... it's really a no
> win situation and a very hard format to program on the fm
> dials.
>
> IMO.. its now about only 2 formats... Sirius' "The Beat" or
> XM's "BPM" - which format do you think would work in SF? -
> thats the main question here.
>
 
and one more point..

Doing all of the above takes a concerted effort from everyong, and an understanding from those of us that like dance music.

It also requires patience, and a long term view on things. Radio doesn't have this (hell, it might not have a long term). Neither do the major labels, who are no longer interested in music, but interested in profit margins. Lowry Mays said it best..something to the like of "if you think this business (radio) is about music, you're mistaken". That might not be his exact quote, but you get the point.
 
There already is a formula, a few, none the same, for US FM Dance radio.

> LOL.. radio? - honestly... do you have the right formula of
> what should and should not be played on fm dance radio????

Yes radio, it has been done a few times in recent history.

> What do you know about USA dance radio FM goals? - Nobody
> knows because every goal that has been made has been a
> complete failure.

MAIN POINT: Can you be certain this person that made the post NEVER programmed dance? Or me? Or you? POINT: Don't assume.

KNGY is far from a failure. Energy Chicago was cash flow positive. KTU is serving the NYC market as mass appeal as they can.


> Im not trying to be negative... but its just too hard to
> predict. 1/2 the people hate the top 40 remixes.. 1/2 love
> them. most hate the hip-hop remixes... most love them.


MASS APPEAL! Mainstream. You will never make everyone happy.

Hip-Hop? Market to Market. (YES research and programming skills help make this decision). NYC can tolerate some Hip Hop Lite next to dance. Chicago can't as it is STILL polarized compared to to other cities.

> The older people love the classic dance songs... but there
> are more younger people that hate them... it's really a no
> win situation and a very hard format to program on the fm
> dials.

YES there is. Sorry, older demos win on RADIO. They provide more revenue. KTU is focused as they are older skewing. Energy Chicago was focused being 18-34 and emphasized the currents.

>
> IMO.. its now about only 2 formats... Sirius' "The Beat" or
> XM's "BPM" - which format do you think would work in SF? -
> thats the main question here.

Suicide. Dance has to be LOCAL and tailored to YOUR specific market to make it BILL! You have to be LOCAL to appeal to the clubs, and dance scene. FM radio against Satellite and Online streaming are creatures of difference, to compare them fairly.

Speaking of LOCAL. WKTU....... I am so amazed they can tailor the sound (music and presentation) to appeal to Hispanics, yet, not chase away the secondaries which are the Europeans. -----Point why KTU wont work being a carbon copy in other markets!!!!!!!! (I know this point just flew over 99% of the participants reading this post).

Main Answer to the main question..... Dance CAN work on commercial FM bands. In *some* markets, not all. Some have to skew classic, some current. And some have to incorporate hip hop, others shoud avoid it like the plague (WHY???? Why play Hip Hop when your competitor is already serving that audience??????????) But it is simple, dance on FM does not happen because, it costs a lot to run the format, takes a great effort to maintain, and a killer sales staff (again too much work, in day and age when less input and more output is expected)

Shebel has elevated that station considering the engineering nightmare and shoestring budget, to get solid numbers in SF proper. It seems that this was not a parting of work performance but other factors. Whoever takes the helm, if they veer this ship off course they are most likely going to have a Titanic 2 on their hands.

I am not being negative on you. I actually enjoyed your post, you brought up a lot of good questions and points. But the post before yours had a valid point in itself. <P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: Oh no......

I work at the station. Energy is extremely healthy in every respect and anyone who suggests that we're switching formats or anything like that has no idea what they're talking about.
 
Re: How to fix dance radio

> What needs to happen?
>
> 1. We need to see more crossover stations like Z or KTU.
> They need to mix hiphop and dance. Sure, the dance fans
> WILL WHINE AND CRY, but so what. We're not in the business
> of being concerned with the dance fans, we're concerned with
> finding NEW fans to the genre. You appeal to people that
> enjoy Top 40 and R&B, and introduce them to pop dance music.
>
>

In most markets (let's just say the Top 20 US markets where dance has a remote chance of survival), mixing hiphop and dance is not a formula for success. Yes, I know Z103.5 does it, but let's reason that Z is not Rhythmic, it's actually a very dance-friendly CHR station. I don't know of many (any, actually) hiphop fanatics who care at all for dance... the same attitude for hiphop goes to most core dance fans I've ever met. I can see plugging in a number of hiphop crossover songs that would work in the dance format, such as the latest from the Black-Eyed Peas, Missy Elliot's "Lose Control", maybe even "Signs" by Snoop Dogg. You've got a very limited number of songs like this that will work for dance, though. Putting something back to back like Motorcycle and ummmm, say, Lil Jon or David Banner... ugh. You might as well follow that up with Willie Nelson if you want a REALLY intense trainwreck.

The best hope for dance is that mainstream CHR will eventually find it suitable to start plugging in a few dance tracks into rotation again... DHT is a fair start, it might be the boost that dance needs... wait and see. Luckily, a lot of CHRs carry Open House Party, which does a fair job of bringing some dance to the masses... so getting the mainstream crowd to take on at least a reasonable acceptance to dance music isn't totally out of the question.
 
Re: There already is a formula, a few, none the same, for US FM Dance radio.

> > LOL.. radio? - honestly... do you have the right formula
> of
> > what should and should not be played on fm dance radio????
>
>
> Yes radio, it has been done a few times in recent history.
>
> > What do you know about USA dance radio FM goals? - Nobody
> > knows because every goal that has been made has been a
> > complete failure.
>
> MAIN POINT: Can you be certain this person that made the
> post NEVER programmed dance? Or me? Or you? POINT: Don't
> assume.
>
> KNGY is far from a failure. Energy Chicago was cash flow
> positive. KTU is serving the NYC market as mass appeal as
> they can.
>
>
> > Im not trying to be negative... but its just too hard to
> > predict. 1/2 the people hate the top 40 remixes.. 1/2 love
>
> > them. most hate the hip-hop remixes... most love them.
>
>
> MASS APPEAL! Mainstream. You will never make everyone happy.
>
>
> Hip-Hop? Market to Market. (YES research and programming
> skills help make this decision). NYC can tolerate some Hip
> Hop Lite next to dance. Chicago can't as it is STILL
> polarized compared to to other cities.
>
> > The older people love the classic dance songs... but there
>
> > are more younger people that hate them... it's really a no
>
> > win situation and a very hard format to program on the fm
> > dials.
>
> YES there is. Sorry, older demos win on RADIO. They provide
> more revenue. KTU is focused as they are older skewing.
> Energy Chicago was focused being 18-34 and emphasized the
> currents.
>
> >
> > IMO.. its now about only 2 formats... Sirius' "The Beat"
> or
> > XM's "BPM" - which format do you think would work in SF? -
>
> > thats the main question here.
>
> Suicide. Dance has to be LOCAL and tailored to YOUR specific
> market to make it BILL! You have to be LOCAL to appeal to
> the clubs, and dance scene. FM radio against Satellite and
> Online streaming are creatures of difference, to compare
> them fairly.
>
> Speaking of LOCAL. WKTU....... I am so amazed they can
> tailor the sound (music and presentation) to appeal to
> Hispanics, yet, not chase away the secondaries which are the
> Europeans. -----Point why KTU wont work being a carbon copy
> in other markets!!!!!!!! (I know this point just flew over
> 99% of the participants reading this post).
>
> Main Answer to the main question..... Dance CAN work on
> commercial FM bands. In *some* markets, not all. Some have
> to skew classic, some current. And some have to incorporate
> hip hop, others shoud avoid it like the plague (WHY???? Why
> play Hip Hop when your competitor is already serving that
> audience??????????) But it is simple, dance on FM does not
> happen because, it costs a lot to run the format, takes a
> great effort to maintain, and a killer sales staff (again
> too much work, in day and age when less input and more
> output is expected)
>
> Shebel has elevated that station considering the engineering
> nightmare and shoestring budget, to get solid numbers in SF
> proper. It seems that this was not a parting of work
> performance but other factors. Whoever takes the helm, if
> they veer this ship off course they are most likely going to
> have a Titanic 2 on their hands.
>
> I am not being negative on you. I actually enjoyed your
> post, you brought up a lot of good questions and points. But
> the post before yours had a valid point in itself.
>

List markets where you feel dance radio can work.
<P ID="signature">______________
www.1Club.FM INTERNET RADIO STATION
30 Channels... 1 Club DOT FM</P></P>
 
Re: How to fix dance radio

Well you completely ignore evidence from everywhere else in the world. When people mention the strength of dance in the UK & elsewhere, North Americans claim "it's the culture over there". Culture over where? Radio all over the planet plays dance music. It happens in South America, it happens in every country in Europe (even Sweden), and it happens in Asia. So perhaps the norm IS to play dance music amongst the rest of the music.

Hiphop is a very generic term. It's much like the word "rock" music, which can encompass everything from Slayer to Huey Lewis. Top 40 or Dance leaning stations could easily play Signs into Motorcycle into Avril Lavigne into Arcade Fire. Rap fans will listen to Urban radio, and if someone digging DMX doesn't like DHT, I highly doubt they'd like Kelly Clarkson either.

Dance radio could easily play remixes of the pop music and the lighter more R&B music. BEP, Destiny's Child, Pussycat Dolls, Rhianna, etc.

You're absolutely correct that Z and KTU are different. Their stations that reside in markets that had heritage dance stations. But how do you think they got that way? Someone went out on a limb and programmed something different....and it worked. And for the record, Energy 108 was a Dance/Urban station. You were just as likely to hear hiphop on it as you were dance. No one seemed to mind. Nor do people seem to mind when Radio 1 or Metro FM put dance and hiphop back to back. Or NRJ or P4 or....etc.

I grew up in Toronto within ear shot of Kiss 98.5. From the time I was 16 right on up, I could hear Dance music on CHR in America. Same station played Johnny Gill, White Lion, even Patrick Swayze. It owned the market. Star 104 in Erie was much the same.

It's only in the last few years that dance hasn't been on the radio in any sense.
>
> In most markets (let's just say the Top 20 US markets where
> dance has a remote chance of survival), mixing hiphop and
> dance is not a formula for success. Yes, I know Z103.5 does
> it, but let's reason that Z is not Rhythmic, it's actually a
> very dance-friendly CHR station. I don't know of many (any,
> actually) hiphop fanatics who care at all for dance... the
> same attitude for hiphop goes to most core dance fans I've
> ever met. I can see plugging in a number of hiphop
> crossover songs that would work in the dance format, such as
> the latest from the Black-Eyed Peas, Missy Elliot's "Lose
> Control", maybe even "Signs" by Snoop Dogg. You've got a
> very limited number of songs like this that will work for
> dance, though. Putting something back to back like
> Motorcycle and ummmm, say, Lil Jon or David Banner... ugh.
> You might as well follow that up with Willie Nelson if you
> want a REALLY intense trainwreck.
>
> The best hope for dance is that mainstream CHR will
> eventually find it suitable to start plugging in a few dance
> tracks into rotation again... DHT is a fair start, it might
> be the boost that dance needs... wait and see. Luckily, a
> lot of CHRs carry Open House Party, which does a fair job of
> bringing some dance to the masses... so getting the
> mainstream crowd to take on at least a reasonable acceptance
> to dance music isn't totally out of the question.
>
 
Re: How to fix dance radio

> Well you completely ignore evidence from everywhere else in
> the world. When people mention the strength of dance in the
> UK & elsewhere, North Americans claim "it's the culture over
> there". Culture over where? Radio all over the planet
> plays dance music. It happens in South America, it happens
> in every country in Europe (even Sweden), and it happens in
> Asia. So perhaps the norm IS to play dance music amongst
> the rest of the music.
>

You're right, I ignore evidence from elsewhere in the world because it simply doesn't apply to the US radio climate. It's a bit of crude, but the point that "it works in Europe, why not in the US" is kinda like saying, "Hey, country is huge in the states... it oughta fly big over in the EU and Japan!" I know it seems like a paradox, but a nation that once billed itself as "the melting pot" is surprisingly closed-minded to what's culturally acceptable and "hip" overseas. Even the radio climate is Toronto is different than what you'll find in the US, and that's mere miles away... close enough to have broadcast signals bleeding over the borders. (Yes, I remember picking up Energy 108 in Buffalo, and Kiss in Toronto, just as you mentioned!) And I do remember dance and hiphop played side by side in the early to mid 90's, many of the rhythmics did it... Energy 108, B96 Chicago, Power 96 Miami, Hot 97 in NYC... the music and it's listeners were much, much less polarized back then than they are now in 2005.

Other than that, I agree with what you're saying... hiphop and urban are natural crossovers, and dance easily crosses over into mainstream because mainstream is essentially a culmination of everything "popular" in music. The only stations I've known of to remotely blend hiphop and dance in the states in recent years are WDRE on Long Island and WPYO in Orlando. DRE seemed to veer toward one extreme or the other, and PYO was blown up and relaunched as a pure hiphop station a couple of years back. I simply don't see a happy marriage between hiphop and dance taking place in the states.
 
Re: markets where dance radio can work

> >
>
> List markets where you feel dance radio can work.
>

Not abiding to a specific formula, but tuned to a market's tastes (might be heavy on a certain genre of dance, maybe 90's, maybe disco, etc etc):

NYC
Chicago
SF Bay Area
Detroit
DC/Baltimore
Miami
Los Angeles
Philly

Obviously, what flies in Chicago won't necessarily work in Miami or LA... but these are all cities with dance heritage. Acknowledge that heritage and audience in each individual market and you've got something to build your station on.
 
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