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Energy Onix Transmitters- Good or Not?
- Thread starter RF Man
- Start date
I found the ECO-4 to be a solid, reliable transmitter. The VSWR foldback protection was a wonderful thing. It's not a fancy box, but then again a pretty digital display doesn't make you sound any better. I was very pleased with the tech support and they always had any replacement part I needed in stock.
O
OnTheAir123
Guest
I like Harris and Continental but thats just me. 8)
You should look at that transmitter carefully before purchasing, IMHO.
Hi RF Man,
I have an ECO-6 at one of our stations, and it has been running well for nearly 10 years now. The same tube (3CX3000A7) is used in the ECO-4, so, even at 4 kW output, you should get great tube life. I get about 3 years or so on rebuilt tubes in the ECO-6. On the subject of tube life, do note that the filament voltage meter is not representative of the voltage at the socket. With most transmitters, this discrepancy is very small, but with the ECO series, the front panel meter will read about 0.5 V higher than the actual voltage at the socket due to the drop across the two RF chokes on either side of the filament. Not knowing that little fact, you can really screw up the life of a tube. I usually burn them in with a front panel meter indication of 7.9 - 8.0 V and then trim it back to an indication of 7.4 or 7.5 V.
Another thing I've noticed with our ECO-6 is the need for seasonal adjustment of the IPA. Usually every spring and fall the IPA tuning and loading will need to be touched up. Sometimes this is indicated by an audible whistle on the transmitted audio, or the transmitter will simply not make full power.
The design is really straightforward and easy to understand and troubleshoot. Should you have problems, you'll usually talk directly to Bernie Wise himself.
Keep it clean and well maintained and give it clean power, and you should have a reliable plant. We have a series surge suppression unit from PolyPhaser on the AC mains to the building and a well-grounded tower, and have never had to worry about lightning.
I have an ECO-6 at one of our stations, and it has been running well for nearly 10 years now. The same tube (3CX3000A7) is used in the ECO-4, so, even at 4 kW output, you should get great tube life. I get about 3 years or so on rebuilt tubes in the ECO-6. On the subject of tube life, do note that the filament voltage meter is not representative of the voltage at the socket. With most transmitters, this discrepancy is very small, but with the ECO series, the front panel meter will read about 0.5 V higher than the actual voltage at the socket due to the drop across the two RF chokes on either side of the filament. Not knowing that little fact, you can really screw up the life of a tube. I usually burn them in with a front panel meter indication of 7.9 - 8.0 V and then trim it back to an indication of 7.4 or 7.5 V.
Another thing I've noticed with our ECO-6 is the need for seasonal adjustment of the IPA. Usually every spring and fall the IPA tuning and loading will need to be touched up. Sometimes this is indicated by an audible whistle on the transmitted audio, or the transmitter will simply not make full power.
The design is really straightforward and easy to understand and troubleshoot. Should you have problems, you'll usually talk directly to Bernie Wise himself.
Keep it clean and well maintained and give it clean power, and you should have a reliable plant. We have a series surge suppression unit from PolyPhaser on the AC mains to the building and a well-grounded tower, and have never had to worry about lightning.
Energy Onix has come a long way in the past 10 years. The ones they made in the mid 90's were cheap knock-offs of CCA. Reach inside & the PA Cavity's tuning components had a flimsy feel to them. Left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time. I believe ChiefEngineer had one of them in Indy around that time & after threatening a lawsuit, they took it back. But that's all ancient history. The people that I know who are using them today are pleased...
I am a supposedly retired station owner/CE doing engineering work to stay busy. I have 19 transmitters to maintain. 5 of them are Energy-Onix boxes. 2-ECO 4's, 1-ECO 8, 2-Pulsar AM's (1KW and 5KW). The ECO 4's have had very few problems. The ECO 8 was a nightmare until I installed adequate lightning protection measures omitted by a previous engineer. The AM's are problematic to say the least.
Bernie's forte is with the grounded-grid FM's. Beyond this, BEWARE!
Something to keep in mind with any and all of Bernie's boxes. The instruction manual will not be of much value. It seems like every transmitter that leaves the factory is at least slightly if not greatly different than the one manufactured just prior. This changes are most likely not documented in the manual or the schematics. The Pulsar 5KW manual, in several places, advises you to read the technical description section. This section is nowhere to be found in the manual. Schematics are either missing or do not represent what is actually installed in the transmitter. So, being able to get someone on the line at the factory is sometimes the only place you can turn to and they DO answer the phone. Good luck with the accents you will encounter.
Regarding the exciters and STL's, these are indeed the Italian products. I just recently had problems with an Onix exciter and found the poor photocopy of the schematic in the manual to be unreadable. Stick with Moseley, Marti, or even TFT. Though I'm not a big fan of TFT, I have placed their new, lost cost STL's in service at two locations and so far I'm impressed.
Though I'm no fan of all the fancy-smancy crap that comes with the Harris and Continental boxes, the QUALITY of parts far exceed what you'll find in the cheaper transmitters. The Harris Digit exciter, however, is problematic. BE seems to have struck a happy medium, IMHO.
Bernie's forte is with the grounded-grid FM's. Beyond this, BEWARE!
Something to keep in mind with any and all of Bernie's boxes. The instruction manual will not be of much value. It seems like every transmitter that leaves the factory is at least slightly if not greatly different than the one manufactured just prior. This changes are most likely not documented in the manual or the schematics. The Pulsar 5KW manual, in several places, advises you to read the technical description section. This section is nowhere to be found in the manual. Schematics are either missing or do not represent what is actually installed in the transmitter. So, being able to get someone on the line at the factory is sometimes the only place you can turn to and they DO answer the phone. Good luck with the accents you will encounter.
Regarding the exciters and STL's, these are indeed the Italian products. I just recently had problems with an Onix exciter and found the poor photocopy of the schematic in the manual to be unreadable. Stick with Moseley, Marti, or even TFT. Though I'm not a big fan of TFT, I have placed their new, lost cost STL's in service at two locations and so far I'm impressed.
Though I'm no fan of all the fancy-smancy crap that comes with the Harris and Continental boxes, the QUALITY of parts far exceed what you'll find in the cheaper transmitters. The Harris Digit exciter, however, is problematic. BE seems to have struck a happy medium, IMHO.
I have 2 ECO-6 and 1 ECO-4 in service. The ECO-6 units were both put in service in 2004. I have had no problems at all with them. Both are still makeing full power with the original output tube. That will be 3 years in June. The ECO-4 has been just as trouble free. All of these are using the Energy Onix exciters and stl units. The only problem has been the fan locking up on 2 of the exciters. They kept working with no fan until I could get a replacement.
Overall I am very happy with the Energy Onix equipment I have in service.
Overall I am very happy with the Energy Onix equipment I have in service.
C
callfm
Guest
They are GOOD
We've used an ECO-10 (10 kW) and currently use an ECO-30 (30 kW). I also look after an ECO-6 for another station. No major problems. One thing to keep in mind, like a lot of things, these transmitters are a collection of individual components working together (such as tubes, blowers, exciters, resistors, wire, capacitors, transformers, air pressure switches, filament transformers, etc.). Most of these major components are put into the system by the manufacturer, not made by them. If (when) such an item fails and needs to be replaced, it is going to happen no matter the brand name of transmitter, and some of these components are going to be the same in different brands.
Anytime there is a problem you can always get a part sent UPS red next day by Energy-Onix, pay later.
We've used an ECO-10 (10 kW) and currently use an ECO-30 (30 kW). I also look after an ECO-6 for another station. No major problems. One thing to keep in mind, like a lot of things, these transmitters are a collection of individual components working together (such as tubes, blowers, exciters, resistors, wire, capacitors, transformers, air pressure switches, filament transformers, etc.). Most of these major components are put into the system by the manufacturer, not made by them. If (when) such an item fails and needs to be replaced, it is going to happen no matter the brand name of transmitter, and some of these components are going to be the same in different brands.
Anytime there is a problem you can always get a part sent UPS red next day by Energy-Onix, pay later.
>Though I'm no fan of all the fancy-smancy crap that comes with the Harris and Continental boxes, the >QUALITY of parts far exceed what you'll find in the cheaper transmitters. The Harris Digit exciter, however, >is problematic. BE seems to have struck a happy medium, IMHO.
Interesting. I got a buncha the Collins/Continental 3-bay FMs. Hadn't noticed any 'fancy schmancy' in them. What parts of them do you so considr? (I also got a buncha current Harris. I ain't impressed)
thanks,
lj
Interesting. I got a buncha the Collins/Continental 3-bay FMs. Hadn't noticed any 'fancy schmancy' in them. What parts of them do you so considr? (I also got a buncha current Harris. I ain't impressed)
thanks,
lj
Littlejohn,
My opinions are based entirely on the experiences I've had with various transmitters. Yours may very well be different based on your experiences. Hearing various viewpoints is one of the benefits of this forum.
In my comments I should have made a distinction that I will now clarify. Continental/Collins uses/used a better quality of component and usually much more conservatively rated components. Where you will find Continental using a 7.5KV G series capacitor, the cheaper transmitters may use as little as a 4KV rated bathtub capacitor. I make no pretense that this is ALWAYS the case.....just more likely so. The same with Harris.
Relative to Harris, Continental doesn't deserve the fancy schmancy label. I should have made this more clear in my first post.
I'll admit it is nice to be able to go to a transmitter site and take a look at the fault log for clues to a problem. However, when it is the fault detection circuitry that lays down instead of there actually being a problem, then it's not so nice to have your exciter shut down when there's no real problem. Sometimes it's not so easy to get around a false fault. Murphy's law dictates that the cure for the false fault will be deep inside the box in some inaccessible place. And of course in this situation there will be no spare exciter available. Harris is famous for monitoring everything but the kitchen sink. I really appreciate the use of old fashioned relay logic used in the older/cheaper transmitters. You are more likely to be able to figure a way around a problem with these old rigs.
I have great respect for the simplicity of the old McMartins, CCAs, etc., and since this thread asks about Onix in particular, I'll throw in Bernie's boxes as well. As noted above, my beef with Onix is the lack of adequate documentation.
Finally, thanks to you and everyone else who takes the time to post on this forum.
My opinions are based entirely on the experiences I've had with various transmitters. Yours may very well be different based on your experiences. Hearing various viewpoints is one of the benefits of this forum.
In my comments I should have made a distinction that I will now clarify. Continental/Collins uses/used a better quality of component and usually much more conservatively rated components. Where you will find Continental using a 7.5KV G series capacitor, the cheaper transmitters may use as little as a 4KV rated bathtub capacitor. I make no pretense that this is ALWAYS the case.....just more likely so. The same with Harris.
Relative to Harris, Continental doesn't deserve the fancy schmancy label. I should have made this more clear in my first post.
I'll admit it is nice to be able to go to a transmitter site and take a look at the fault log for clues to a problem. However, when it is the fault detection circuitry that lays down instead of there actually being a problem, then it's not so nice to have your exciter shut down when there's no real problem. Sometimes it's not so easy to get around a false fault. Murphy's law dictates that the cure for the false fault will be deep inside the box in some inaccessible place. And of course in this situation there will be no spare exciter available. Harris is famous for monitoring everything but the kitchen sink. I really appreciate the use of old fashioned relay logic used in the older/cheaper transmitters. You are more likely to be able to figure a way around a problem with these old rigs.
I have great respect for the simplicity of the old McMartins, CCAs, etc., and since this thread asks about Onix in particular, I'll throw in Bernie's boxes as well. As noted above, my beef with Onix is the lack of adequate documentation.
Finally, thanks to you and everyone else who takes the time to post on this forum.
I kinda wondered 
I had S/N 1 and 5 of the original 831G-1, all the way up to currently 816R-2cs and -5as. Just retired a CCA 10, have a CCA 20 or 25 (Have to go look) coming out in a month or three from backup service.
I find it interesting that the original design soldiers on with excellent perfornmance (with control and drivr upgrades to keep it modern). The cavity has a swamping resistor, and they added a plenum and some holes for cooling when they pushed it up to 22.5 KW and higher. Beyond that, it's the same it's been for just at 40 years now. I wish they still used Weston meters in them, but otherwise they're fairly solid.
In the same period, Harris has tried the 'trombone line' arcwelder, the 25K (golly that thing was a joke), and the (I suppose current) HT series. The only positive point I can make of the HTs is, this is the very first radio I've seen from them which will actually cold start, and come up and run for pushing the plate ON button.
Having run theit solid state (Z series) besidee a BE, I'll take the BE. Either one works, but the BE is simpler.
Also we got a BE 30T which is an impressive box. Nothing fancy, but it just sits there and runs.
Ken Branton >says< he's finally 'retired'. Someone ought to get him and The Wiz Chenoweth to sit down and do a history of the Collins FMs and the succesion of owners who made the things.
I had S/N 1 and 5 of the original 831G-1, all the way up to currently 816R-2cs and -5as. Just retired a CCA 10, have a CCA 20 or 25 (Have to go look) coming out in a month or three from backup service.
I find it interesting that the original design soldiers on with excellent perfornmance (with control and drivr upgrades to keep it modern). The cavity has a swamping resistor, and they added a plenum and some holes for cooling when they pushed it up to 22.5 KW and higher. Beyond that, it's the same it's been for just at 40 years now. I wish they still used Weston meters in them, but otherwise they're fairly solid.
In the same period, Harris has tried the 'trombone line' arcwelder, the 25K (golly that thing was a joke), and the (I suppose current) HT series. The only positive point I can make of the HTs is, this is the very first radio I've seen from them which will actually cold start, and come up and run for pushing the plate ON button.
Having run theit solid state (Z series) besidee a BE, I'll take the BE. Either one works, but the BE is simpler.
Also we got a BE 30T which is an impressive box. Nothing fancy, but it just sits there and runs.
Ken Branton >says< he's finally 'retired'. Someone ought to get him and The Wiz Chenoweth to sit down and do a history of the Collins FMs and the succesion of owners who made the things.
Have a look here:
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/collins.htm
Also, there's a link to a similar section for Continental transmitters.
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