Don't be surprised if Lazlo from KRBZ Kansas City makes a syndicated return to Detroit in afternoons.
He was once on 97.1 when it was WKRK and also WYCD.
He was once on 97.1 when it was WKRK and also WYCD.
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Entercom Launches Alt 98.7
- Thread starter atthestars
- Start date
I'm not convinced it's a lie. As I said, Detroit is an originating city for Entercom's country format, so I really expect them to do the same with alternative.
Middays on 99.5 WYCD are satellite junk from New York, afternoon drive is voicetracked from Philadelphia (albeit by someone who worked in Detroit radio for a number of years), and while it's true the evening show originates at WYCD, there is absolutely zero localism to Rob & Holly's show now. To an uninformed listener, it sounds like a show that may be of origin in some city 1,000 miles away. Pre-recorded station ID tags are inserted sloppily after songs during their very generic sounding show. It reminds me of how some station in the upper peninsula might sound.
I would expect Alt 98.7 to hire local talent for not more than two dayparts. After all, this is a station that will probably struggle to generate an AQH share higher than the low 2's in A25-54. The good news for fans of faux alternative music is because this is David Field's pet format, 98.7 will probably retain this format for a very long time irrespectively of how poorly it performs in the ratings. Look at Miami; any other owner likely would've trashed 104.3 The Flounder ages ago.
Middays on 99.5 WYCD are satellite junk from New York, afternoon drive is voicetracked from Philadelphia
Are you sure about that? Entercom doesn't own the country station in Philadelphia.
"Faux" alternative music.. this is what alternative music is now. Hate it or love it, it's what's charting and streaming in the genre. I could find you equal numbers of people who claim "alternative" isn't heavy enough and others who claim "alternative" is only heard on college stations.
Fact is, alternative has been a subjective label for decades. It went from a left of center format that included new wave, punk, electronic, reggae and folk sounds, to a grunge centric format, to post grunge, emo, nu-metal/rap rock, a garage wave, an "indie" phase and now it's what it is. It's a broad label that no one agrees on.
IMO, the current sound of the format is closer to its pre-grunge roots in some ways than what came after the Seattle sound.
Fact is, alternative has been a subjective label for decades. It went from a left of center format that included new wave, punk, electronic, reggae and folk sounds, to a grunge centric format, to post grunge, emo, nu-metal/rap rock, a garage wave, an "indie" phase and now it's what it is. It's a broad label that no one agrees on.
IMO, the current sound of the format is closer to its pre-grunge roots in some ways than what came after the Seattle sound.
Yes, I am 100% certain of that, BigA.
"Coop" originates at WTDY-FM in Philly, Entercom's failing CHR/Pop station. He does mornings there. He spent a number of years in mornings at the old 98.7 Amp Radio in Detroit, and prior to that, worked evenings at 99.5 WYCD.
Why do you assume certain air personalities can only work one format at a time? iHM as an example has voicetrackers who are heard on two or even three different formats in a given day.
"Coop" originates at WTDY-FM in Philly, Entercom's failing CHR/Pop station. He does mornings there. He spent a number of years in mornings at the old 98.7 Amp Radio in Detroit, and prior to that, worked evenings at 99.5 WYCD.
Why do you assume certain air personalities can only work one format at a time? iHM as an example has voicetrackers who are heard on two or even three different formats in a given day.
Why do you assume certain air personalities can only work one format at a time?
Why do you assume the quality of someone's work is a function of where they are? He's obviously doing a unique show specifically for the Detroit market. It isn't simply a rebroadcast of his regular show. And where might I ask is Sarah based?
iHeart's failure at 106.7 does not predict the potential for the format to work. Unfortunately, if Entercom applies their regional model to the station, I don't feel encouraged for its success.IHeart tried it with 106.7 and failed miserably. The same fate will befall this station.
Unfortunately, if Entercom applies their regional model to the station, I don't feel encouraged for its success.
Entercom has been doing this format with varied results in a number of markets prior to using the regional model. i haven't seen that the success is a function of whether or not its local, but more a function of the music. The primary attraction seems to be the music and not the location of the talent.
I thought it was interesting that Beasley imported Dave & Chuck from WRIF to Boston, and got terrible results until they changed the music to classic rock, and then they same show did much better. All they changed was the music.
Re:
BigA - I referred to the satellite midday show on WYCD as "junk." I did not refer to Coop's airshift as junk. I suspect I'm more familiar with his work on WYCD than you are. He delivers a compelling show to WYCD's listeners. I have no beef with the quality of his content.
Given the fact the flop at 106.7 happened just two or three years ago and the style of music 106.7 played is very similar to the style of music 98.7 is playing, I suppose I disagree with your first point. I'd say it is quite predictive.
Some of you clearly like Alternative music and want to see it succeed. I get that. However, there are multiple examples of the format earning mediocre to downright terrible ratings whenever it's been tried in the Motor City. At the format's zenith in the mid 90s, 89X topped out at about a 3 share. That was when the format was on FIRE. 89X's second ratings peak came around 2010/2011/2012, when (a) the station had Dave & Chuck in mornings and (b) the station blended healthy doses of harder edged rock into the playlist (albeit not quite to the extent of the last two years). At times, 89X was #1 in Persons 18-34. Musically, 89X at the time sounded very different to how 98.7 sounds now. As soon as Dave & Chuck left, the air escaped the balloon, and a transition to a pop/indie flavored playlist further dragged down AQH share - to low 1's in ages 6+.
98.7's playlist is too girlie sounding to work here.
So many of Entercom's "Alt" branded stations are earning so-so to downright terrible ratings. David Field's affinity for the format and apparent personal quest to make it "work" is the only reason Entercom showcases it, IMO.
BigA - I referred to the satellite midday show on WYCD as "junk." I did not refer to Coop's airshift as junk. I suspect I'm more familiar with his work on WYCD than you are. He delivers a compelling show to WYCD's listeners. I have no beef with the quality of his content.
iHeart's failure at 106.7 does not predict the potential for the format to work. Unfortunately, if Entercom applies their regional model to the station, I don't feel encouraged for its success.
Given the fact the flop at 106.7 happened just two or three years ago and the style of music 106.7 played is very similar to the style of music 98.7 is playing, I suppose I disagree with your first point. I'd say it is quite predictive.
Some of you clearly like Alternative music and want to see it succeed. I get that. However, there are multiple examples of the format earning mediocre to downright terrible ratings whenever it's been tried in the Motor City. At the format's zenith in the mid 90s, 89X topped out at about a 3 share. That was when the format was on FIRE. 89X's second ratings peak came around 2010/2011/2012, when (a) the station had Dave & Chuck in mornings and (b) the station blended healthy doses of harder edged rock into the playlist (albeit not quite to the extent of the last two years). At times, 89X was #1 in Persons 18-34. Musically, 89X at the time sounded very different to how 98.7 sounds now. As soon as Dave & Chuck left, the air escaped the balloon, and a transition to a pop/indie flavored playlist further dragged down AQH share - to low 1's in ages 6+.
98.7's playlist is too girlie sounding to work here.
So many of Entercom's "Alt" branded stations are earning so-so to downright terrible ratings. David Field's affinity for the format and apparent personal quest to make it "work" is the only reason Entercom showcases it, IMO.
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BigA - I referred to the satellite midday show on WYCD as "junk."
What makes it "junk?" That it doesn't originate from Detroit? Katie is a very qualified talent. She didn't get to NYC by her good looks. She is giving stations a unique approach to mid-days with a show more like morning drive with an artist co-host. It's more talent-oriented than simply another 20 songs in a row that they were doing before.
So many of Entercom's "Alt" branded stations are earning so-so to downright terrible ratings. David Field's affinity for the format and apparent personal quest to make it "work" is the only reason Entercom showcases it, IMO.
As I've said many times, the goal of cluster programming is not simply to get good ratings. If it was, they probably wouldn't bother with alternative at all. The goal is diversity of the audience in order to provide sellable demographics. You don't have to get big numbers to deliver a cohesive and sellable audience. That's what alternative accomplishes. In addition, Entercom (like iHeart) isn't focused completely on just radio stations, but the larger internet and social media platform that's attached to them. Alternative provides an active audience for that part of the business.
If their goal is a station in a top 15 market that will probably bill no more than $3 million a year (and that's after COVID dissipates) - mission accomplished!
Not in Detroit; you need to brush up on the history of the Detroit radio market.
Hopefully, when Entercom enters Bankruptcy court and impaired lenders receive director appointment rights, the new board will fire David Field and hire someone competent to run the company.
Another aspect of this programming move that makes it ill-advised is the fact WNIC is now assured of big numbers throughout the year. That certainly won't help WOMC's cause when it comes to ad sales!
You don't have to get big numbers to deliver a cohesive and sellable audience. That's what alternative accomplishes.
Not in Detroit; you need to brush up on the history of the Detroit radio market.
Hopefully, when Entercom enters Bankruptcy court and impaired lenders receive director appointment rights, the new board will fire David Field and hire someone competent to run the company.
Another aspect of this programming move that makes it ill-advised is the fact WNIC is now assured of big numbers throughout the year. That certainly won't help WOMC's cause when it comes to ad sales!
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Entercom has been doing this format with varied results in a number of markets prior to using the regional model. i haven't seen that the success is a function of whether or not its local, but more a function of the music. The primary attraction seems to be the music and not the location of the talent.
I thought it was interesting that Beasley imported Dave & Chuck from WRIF to Boston, and got terrible results until they changed the music to classic rock, and then they same show did much better. All they changed was the music.
Successfully programming a radio station is a combination of multiple factors and definitely starts with the base music position. If the music is wrong, the station won't get off the ground. At the same time, the right mix of personalities, promotions, and imaging are also key to a station's ratings success. Listeners have plenty of options for music, so it is also extremely important for a station to connect with listeners through the personalities (and other factors). I don't believe the regional talent that Entercom uses is strong enough make up for their lack of local connection to the markets they are in. The regional/national approach that Entercom and iHeart are using is making radio lose its 'vibe', which is particularly important for the Alternative format.
Not in Detroit; you need to brush up on the history of the Detroit radio market.
You have to understand that I don't work for Entercom, but I know Tim Roberts. He's a very smart guy, and didn't get where he is by making uneducated decisions that end up losing money.
Hopefully, when Entercom enters Bankruptcy court and impaired lenders receive director appointment rights, the new board will fire David Field and hire someone competent to run the company.
I'm not an accountant, but one thing I know from studying iHeart and Cumulus bankruptcies is that neither were caused by bad radio programming. You don't create $20 billion of debt by bad programming decisions. It just doesn't happen that way. So you may not like what they're doing with this station, but there is no reason to think it will push them into bankruptcy. We just have to be honest and real about that.
The other thing is that David Field's job title is CEO. He's not in charge of programming. People think that CEOs do everything at companies. They don't. They have lots of other people who make decisions, and all he usually does is approve or disapprove. Before this decision got to his desk, the programming and sales people looked at the data, and determined the proper course of action. They took it to Field and he said "go for it." I studied how Lew Dickey lost his job at Cumulus, and it didn't have anything to do with any of the bad programming decisions the company made. When Lew was fired, he was not replaced by someone who knew radio programming. So that's not going to happen at Entercom either.
The regional/national approach that Entercom and iHeart are using is making radio lose its 'vibe', which is particularly important for the Alternative format.
I think that would be correct if we were still in the 1990s. But we're not. Radio stations and companies that only think in terms of their air signal are destined to end up in museums. The air signal is just part of the bigger picture of talent, music, lifestyle, and social media. In fact social media is a more important element than whether or not the talent at a station is local or regional. And yes I agree that talent and music have to connect with listeners. But if you study the way listeners use media, they don't care where the media is coming from because it's part of an imaginary world that all goes to the same device.
There was a time when the KROQ Weenie Roast was one of the most important events in the alternative community. WHFS did a similar thing, and so did KFOG. These were all fun events, and radio was at the center of the community. But that was over 20 years ago.
Is it not possible that the music wasn't so much the problem when it changed after Dave and Chuck so much as it was the right music for an audience no longer looking to 89X? If they're an active edged station, the pop/indie audience was probably not looking to them and had found other music sources by the time it changed. So maybe it isn't that no one in Detroit likes the state of alternative music as presented by 98.7, but they weren't aware of where to find it.
Also, they were splitting that audience with their own sister station as CIDR was a pretty pop friendly Triple A and a lot of the indie pop/alt currents fit on 93.9.
Also, they were splitting that audience with their own sister station as CIDR was a pretty pop friendly Triple A and a lot of the indie pop/alt currents fit on 93.9.
Is it not possible that the music wasn't so much the problem when it changed after Dave and Chuck so much as it was the right music for an audience no longer looking to 89X?
If you're referring to my post about Dave & Chuck, I was talking about their simulcast in Boston, not Detroit. Bostonians felt that importing a morning show from Detroit was the kiss of death. They seemed to be correct. But last year the station flipped from alternative to classic rock, and kept the Detroit morning show. All of a sudden, the station jumped into the Top 10 and it was obvious that no one cared where the morning show came from.
Successfully programming a radio station is a combination of multiple factors and definitely starts with the base music position. If the music is wrong, the station won't get off the ground. At the same time, the right mix of personalities, promotions, and imaging are also key to a station's ratings success. Listeners have plenty of options for music, so it is also extremely important for a station to connect with listeners through the personalities (and other factors). I don't believe the regional talent that Entercom uses is strong enough make up for their lack of local connection to the markets they are in. The regional/national approach that Entercom and iHeart are using is making radio lose its 'vibe', which is particularly important for the Alternative format.
When Entercom took over the CBS station I'd been working for, David Field expressed his admiration for what iHeart was doing. That was the first warning bell. Then came the initial layoffs (myself included) then some more, and it continued with the recent bloodbaths at all their country and "alternative" stations. My take is that Field is trying to copy the iHeart formula, but without the same tools or level of expertise at his disposal.
It's easy to hate on iHeart for what they've done generally, but the truth is they've got the "voice track everything outside of morning drive" thing down pat...in part because they've been doing it so long. Analyzing the results, fine-tuning the machine. Entercom doesn't have that experience, nor the depth of a "bench" worth of talent.
And yes, listeners have plenty of options when it comes to music, and terrestrial radio is becoming less relevant to younger listeners. I'm old enough to remember when Top 40 stations would target younger listeners (even high schools) at night, because while those kids were not in the demo yet, they would grow up into loyal listeners. I noticed something interesting lately. I watch a lot of car review shows on You Tube. They're almost all hosted by millennials. Some of them go quite in depth on the interior features of the vehicles. None of them mention "the radio." It's the infotainment system, and what seems to be the most important question is whether or not it has Android Auto or Apple Car Play.
The car is one of the bastions or radio listening, but if the younger demo doesn't see that thing in the middle of the dash as a "radio" anymore, then will that be true in the future?
My take is that Field is trying to copy the iHeart formula, but without the same tools or level of expertise at his disposal.
Huh? And you say you worked for CBS? Sure radio.com isn't as big as iHeart, and isn't staffed to the degree as iHeart, but Field bought a lot of things besides towers and transmitters when he bought CBS Radio. There is a big digital infrastructure at the former CBS Radio. This may be a surprise to you, but had CBS Radio stayed with CBS Corporation, or had it spun off into its own company, it was going to head in this direction regardless. This 20th century concept of fully staffed local radio stations is slowly going away. You should know the biggest staff cuts in Phoenix happened long before David Field got the car keys. Don't give David Field the credit for what's happening now. This was going to happen regardless.
Huh? And you say you worked for CBS? Sure radio.com isn't as big as iHeart, and isn't staffed to the degree as iHeart, but Field bought a lot of things besides towers and transmitters when he bought CBS Radio. There is a big digital infrastructure at the former CBS Radio. This may be a surprise to you, but had CBS Radio stayed with CBS Corporation, or had it spun off into its own company, it was going to head in this direction regardless. This 20th century concept of fully staffed local radio stations is slowly going away. You should know the biggest staff cuts in Phoenix happened long before David Field got the car keys. Don't give David Field the credit for what's happening now. This was going to happen regardless.
Yes, I worked for CBS. And Entercom, and Clear Channel back when it was still called that.
Now, would CBS - on it's own or with the Tiffany Network - have eventually copied iHeart's business model? Possibly, or at least they'd have reorganized into something a lot leaner, but that's all hypothetical. The reality is that Entercom seems very much like it is trying to be iHeart 2.0. Yet again, iHeart has the machine tuned to a pretty high degree, and Entercom isn't there yet. Field also took on a lot of debt when they bought CBS...a company that didn't have that problem. As to the eventuality of the situation, I'll refer you to my earlier comment about millennials and influencers, and add something my old PD (who was also downsized) said once. He said (pointing towards the towers), "the time is coming when those will be irrelevant," and he's right. It isn't just fully staffed local radio stations that are going away. It isn't just the staffs that are shrinking (and you'll have to show me your work on that Phoenix claim), but the whole shebang. The only questions are how long before it shrinks out of existence, or can it make the transition to fully online/streaming and remain viable.
I'll give CBS credit, at least on the television side of things. They jumped out in front of the standalone streaming service thing pretty quickly, and have been successful with All Access as far as I can tell. They seem to have figured out that they're not a television company, but a content company, and that streaming is the way of the present...not just the future. I have to think that at least part of the reason they unloaded the radio division was because they didn't see a long term future there.
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