Entercom Launches Alt 98.7

[TheBigA]

The reality is that Entercom seems very much like it is trying to be iHeart 2.0. Yet again, iHeart has the machine tuned to a pretty high degree, and Entercom isn't there yet.

If you had worked for pre-CBS Entercom, you would have felt they were unlikely to go this route too. If you look at their stations, they were more localized than CBS. But the competitive marketplace has changed, and post-bankruptcy iHeart is a very formidable competitor. Especially in major markets. The fact is that CBS has several members on the Entercom Board of Directors. If any of them objected to what the company is doing now, we'd hear about it. With Covid eating up 50% of station revenues, the pressure is on to find revenue in places other than on air. That's what everyone is doing now. If hiring more local staff would help them replace lost revenue, they'd do it. Anyone looking for work now must demonstrate a direct connection between what they do and revenue.

It isn't just the staffs that are shrinking (and you'll have to show me your work on that Phoenix claim),

Ten years ago, CBS Radio Phoenix was for sale. They wiped out veteran talent at KOOL and KMLE. The sale never happened, but those stations are still hurting from the losses.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't believe the regional talent that Entercom uses is strong enough make up for their lack of local connection to the markets they are in. The regional/national approach that Entercom and iHeart are using is making radio lose its 'vibe', which is particularly important for the Alternative format.

As BigA said, that was a somewhat valid point 25 to 30 years ago.

Today, the Internet has erased boundaries and borders. Friends can be thousands of miles away; we chat and post and tweet and distance is irrelevant.

TV figured out that national shows trumped local ones pretty much always. That is why in the late 50's we go The Tonight Show as a national daily event and then we ended up with Wheel and Ellen and very little local origination outside of newscasts.

Radio, nearly everywhere else in the world, became national or, at least, regional. Local could be inserts (like TV does with the morning blocks) or not done at all. Today, many national radio stations use the web and messaging to handle local aspects. In those nations, we find "national quality" hosts and radio services right down to the smallest market.

The FCC, in the 30's, tried to keep any radio network or owner from getting too big. So fully integrated networks with local stations owned by them did not start forming until 1995, and it has taken a while to take advantage of technology to integrate national services. In many cases, the issue has been technology, not the desire to do national formats. When well done, they tend to overwhelm local offerings.

 

[TheBigA]

Today, the Internet has erased boundaries and borders. Friends can be thousands of miles away; we chat and post and tweet and distance is irrelevant.

The other part of this is that local radio staffs have done very little to merchandize their location. At least compared to 30 or 40 years ago. By merchandizing I mean more than simply referring to local streets or locations. I mean actually making personal appearances where listeners can reach out and touch you. That's obviously impossible to do now with Covid, but it rarely happened prior to Covid. I agree that the alternative music audience responds to the direct community approach. Radio stations at one time were closely connected with local music communities. I see very little of that happening today. It's more likely to happen in non-commercial radio. So if local staffs aren't merchandizing their location, their employers are justified in seeking out talent in other locations. It's not just about saving money.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

If you had worked for pre-CBS Entercom, you would have felt they were unlikely to go this route too. If you look at their stations, they were more localized than CBS. But the competitive marketplace has changed, and post-bankruptcy iHeart is a very formidable competitor. Especially in major markets. The fact is that CBS has several members on the Entercom Board of Directors. If any of them objected to what the company is doing now, we'd hear about it. With Covid eating up 50% of station revenues, the pressure is on to find revenue in places other than on air. That's what everyone is doing now. If hiring more local staff would help them replace lost revenue, they'd do it. Anyone looking for work now must demonstrate a direct connection between what they do and revenue.



Ten years ago, CBS Radio Phoenix was for sale. They wiped out veteran talent at KOOL and KMLE. The sale never happened, but those stations are still hurting from the losses.

At the risk of derailing this further, you said: " You should know the biggest staff cuts in Phoenix happened long before David Field got the car keys."

Technically true. When the previous recession hit, KMLE (for example) wiped out everything outside of morning drive and tracked/syndicated the rest of the day. When the recovery happened, they staffed back up for the most part (nights excepted) and even hired back some of those veterans. They relaunched in 2012 IIRC with a new logo, replaced the vets with newer, younger talent, and remained fully staffed until Entercom reorganized their country stations. Now KMLE is back to what it was during the recession days, but the change seems permanent. KOOL still has live mornings and afternoons (I think) but Tom Peake and Maria Knight were cut loose by Entercom, not CBS. Then there's the promotions/marketing side of things, as well as support staff (HR, business, traffic, etc.).

Circling back to Detroit and on topic, while I agree that Tim Roberts is a smart guy, like MarkW above, I'm wholly unconvinced that the "Alt" generic Entercom format will be successful in the Motor City. What works elsewhere does not always work in Detroit, and while the city is (or at least was) having somewhat of a renaissance (Center?) it is still in many ways stuck in the past. Here's a fun game to play next time you're driving through town on the freeways: Spot the Japanese Car. Sure, they're there, but in much smaller numbers than in any other major city. The reason is obvious (people's jobs) but I'd say the mentality goes deeper than just what people drive. Will some jock from Philly or wherever that's doing a regional show be able to convince Detroiters that they're local? Will the PD handling multiple stations be able to "get" the kind of alternative that works with Detroit?

The Breeze was easy. Just play some office-friendly music and you get played in workplaces. Oldest trick in the book. Field and company picked a harder road with this choice.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm wholly unconvinced that the "Alt" generic Entercom format will be successful in the Motor City. What works elsewhere does not always work in Detroit

I agree, and if you study the system Entercom has developed, it isn't generic. The music can be customized to fit the local market. So Detroit can take the music in a harder, rock direction, while LA appears to be going in a more pop direction. This is also being done by iHeart with Ryan Seacrest and Delilah. Hubbard has done it with Brooke & Jeffrey. Beasley is doing it with the aforementioned Dave & Chuck. Entercom did this with KALV's Morning Mess in Phoenix. So if you listen to how these stations are using imported content, it offers programmers ways to customize for local audiences.

 

[MarkW]

You have to understand that I don't work for Entercom, but I know Tim Roberts. He's a very smart guy, and didn't get where he is by making uneducated decisions that end up losing money.

You honestly think this format change was his call? I think that is very highly unlikely.

I'm still amazed that 98.7 didn't flip to Classic Rock two years ago, instead allowing iHM to resurrect the "Wheels" brand on a different frequency four to five months after The Breeze debuted. Would've paired perfectly with 97.1 for sales purposes.

 

[MarkW]

Re:

The music can be customized to fit the local market. So Detroit can take the music in a harder, rock direction, while LA appears to be going in a more pop direction.

Name one such station under the Entercom umbrella that has been taken in a "harder, rock" direction. Does one exist? It's no secret Mike Kaplan hates strong rock-leaning alterative stations.

The playlists I've examined all look highly similar texturally.

The Detroit station *should* go in such a direction - true. I highly doubt it actually will, though.

So far - the station sounds very, very poppy. Sounds more CHR-ish than rock.

 

[TheBigA]

You honestly think this format change was his call? I think that is very highly unlikely.

No it was the market manager. They obviously felt soft AC was vulnerable, and when Bell made their changes, they decided to fill the void.

But this company is much bigger than David Field. This isn't him looking around the country trying to spread the gospel of alternative music.

 

[MarkW]

Debbie Kenyon was quoted in the Detroit News as saying "the COMPANY" had been looking to bring alternative to Detroit "for some time."

I think Alt 106.7's emergence is what prevented them from going that route initially. (iHM quickly realized what a stupid move that was for them to make; I give them credit for pulling the plug in fairly quick fashion.)

So - a format that two or three years ago that was around 20th place in Adults 25-54 is "less vulnerable" than an AC station (very sellable) that was doing OK - but certainly not great - in the money demo?

98.7 sounds nothing like 89X of the past few years and only a little bit like 93.9 The River. I think Entercom will be surprised by how few listeners to those two former stations they ultimately capture. To the extent the old 89X audience on this side of the border sticks with terrestrial radio - they will largely go to WRIF and WLLZ. 93.9's audience will scatter.

No one on the ground locally in Detroit with any tenure in this market would be stupid enough to choose such a format. Didn't get great numbers at WPLT but for a year or two. Didn't get great numbers when 105.1 programmed it as The Edge. (They and 89X usually combined for only about a 3 share in the late 90's.) Earned terrible numbers when 89X leaned that direction from 2015 to 2017. Earned terrible numbers at 106.7.

This isn't him looking around the country trying to spread the gospel of alternative music.

I 100000% disagree. He was directly involved in this decision, in all likelihood.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

TV figured out that national shows trumped local ones pretty much always. That is why in the late 50's we go The Tonight Show as a national daily event and then we ended up with Wheel and Ellen and very little local origination outside of newscasts.

Radio, nearly everywhere else in the world, became national or, at least, regional. Local could be inserts (like TV does with the morning blocks) or not done at all. Today, many national radio stations use the web and messaging to handle local aspects. In those nations, we find "national quality" hosts and radio services right down to the smallest market.

Yes, TV figured out that national shows trumped local ones, because the networks (and the production companies/studios) could afford big budget productions, while local TV could not.

This has not been the case with radio...at least here in the US. The number of "national quality" hosts and programs was few and far between, and that's still largely the case. For most of the history of radio, the local host or show ruled. What has happened is that the local content has been/is being eliminated, but it is not being replaced with the national quality stuff.

Yes, there are people like Seacrest, and regional talents (Big D and Bubba comes to mind), but overall radio is nothing like TV. A lot of that comes down to - again - budget. We've been in a "Golden Age" of television for quite some time now. Cable outfits like HBO and streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime have figured out that big budget, high quality content will bring in more than enough revenue to cover the enormous costs of something like Game of Thrones, and the traditional networks have had to keep up, throwing more and more money as viewers demand higher quality content. Local stations get the benefit of being able to sell that content to viewers and advertisers. No, the local morning show on your NBC affiliate might not be national quality, but they can point to Chicago Fire or Law and Order and say "we've got this stuff."

The companies that own most local radio stations are not paying a premium for high quality content. They're thinking about how they can do things as cheaply as possible, so instead of a national-level talent, you get a guy (or gal) who is doing an afternoon show on a half dozen stations or more, while tracking weekends, scheduling music, and wearing a couple other hats while getting nowhere near national level money. Meanwhile, streaming services have stepped in an said "we'll play the music you like, tailored to your desires, and you don't have to listen to that underpaid DJ jabbering on about some national contest you'll never win before going into a 10 minute commercial break where some local car dealer yells at you."

National quality radio down to the smallest market sounds like a great idea. iHeart, Entercom, and Cumulus ain't doing that.

 

[TheBigA]

Debbie Kenyon was quoted in the Detroit News as saying "the COMPANY" had been looking to bring alternative to Detroit "for some time."

She also said "ALT 98.7 will serve as a home for some of today's top hits from premier artists in the industry, while capturing the distinctive style and flair of the Motor City." So that means customizing the sound to fit Detroit, not just air some generic format from NYC.

 

[Kevin]

Name one such station under the Entercom umbrella that has been taken in a "harder, rock" direction. Does one exist? It's no secret Mike Kaplan hates strong rock-leaning alterative stations.

The playlists I've examined all look highly similar texturally.

The Detroit station *should* go in such a direction - true. I highly doubt it actually will, though.

So far - the station sounds very, very poppy. Sounds more CHR-ish than rock.

10,000 songs in a row. Alternative Top 40 same 40 songs over and over and over again until they get to 10,000 songs (40 songs played 250 times) and at that point will even tightening the format even more maybe to 30 songs. This is the new Top 40 radio. 98.7 could get a 1.5 share in the first book which could be the best book with this Alt format. I predict a format change by Summer of ‘21.

 

[TheBigA]

National quality radio down to the smallest market sounds like a great idea. iHeart, Entercom, and Cumulus ain't doing that.

I think we're still in the early stages of this. Radio station management is still trying to stick with the image of localism, while utilizing outside programming. You don't see the kind of branding in radio that you see in TV, with ABC7 and Fox5. The marketing of these hosts is still very weak. Some of them, like Bobby Bones, have created a national image. But Bobby idolizes Howard Stern, so he's hired his own management and publicist to achieve the kind of thing. Not so much with Katie Neal or people like that. But that's what will have to happen for radio to capitalize on its talent in the way we've seen with TV.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

I think we're still in the early stages of this. Radio station management is still trying to stick with the image of localism, while utilizing outside programming.

First off, we're in the late stages of radio. If the goal is national-quality talent all the way down to the local small market, and given the increased competition from streaming services, I think that ship may have already sailed.

The marketing of these hosts is still very weak.

Or maybe it's not the marketing.


Do you remember Free FM? That was fun, wasn't it? Howard bailed on terrestrial radio, and CBS responded by trying to fill the void in an...interesting way. A mix of national and regional talent trying to do an FM Talk format. To say it didn't work is an understatement. Why didn't it work? IMO, there were a few factors involved. The talent wasn't up to the task, CBS assumed there was a demand when there wasn't, and no amount of marketing will make people like something they don't need or want.


I'm wondering aloud if maybe Entercom isn't doing a bit of the same thing in Detroit with alternative. Assuming there's a demand, and giving the audience something based on that assumption.

 

[TheBigA]

First off, we're in the late stages of radio. If the goal is national-quality talent all the way down to the local small market, and given the increased competition from streaming services, I think that ship may have already sailed.

There are thousands and thousands of local radio stations still staffed as though it's 1970. So no, we're very early in this process. If you look at Canada or any other country, you have lots of national programming. In fact, 89X is being replaced with Bell's national country format in Windsor. So I stick with what I said. The "increased competition from streaming services" is built primarily on personalized playlists. You can't do that with OTA radio. So that's not a fair comparison.

I'm wondering aloud if maybe Entercom isn't doing a bit of the same thing in Detroit with alternative. Assuming there's a demand, and giving the audience something based on that assumption.

First of all we don't know how Entercom will staff this format. The previous format was fully staffed with local talent. Maybe they'll do the same. But second of all, Entercom flipped this station to alternative because another station in the market left the format. So there's a format hole, and they're merely filling that fole.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

There are thousands and thousands of local radio stations still staffed as though it's 1970.

Where?

First of all we don't know how Entercom will staff this format. The previous format was fully staffed with local talent. Maybe they'll do the same. But second of all, Entercom flipped this station to alternative because another station in the market left the format. So there's a format hole, and they're merely filling that fole.

I don't know, but I've got a pretty good idea. They wiped out most local programming outside of mornings on most of their other "alt" stations, so I won't hold my breath for all local.

And just because a station leaves a format, it doesn't mean there's a hole. There was this guy I talked to once in the Detroit market...his name was Tim something...two first names, maybe? Anyway, the discussion was over whether Detroit had enough market share to split between two country stations. The answer at the time was no.

At the risk of bringing up Phoenix again, there's no urban station here. Is that a format hole? No.

It is entirely possible that 89X was right to leave the format, and that there is no hole.

 

[TheBigA]

Where?

Everywhere. Phoenix, Detroit, you name it. There are 16,000 radio stations in the US. iHeart owns 800 stations, Entercom owns around 300, Cumulus owns 400. Subtract them, and you have thousands of local stations with full local staffs.

It is entirely possible that 89X was right to leave the format, and that there is no hole.

Entercom is a business. They have stockholders. They have people who have financial vested interests in them making good business decisions. If you're right, and this was a total mistake, there are a lot of people who will get fired as a result, starting with Debbie Kenyon. She put herself out there as the face of this thing. So she will be working very hard to prove they made the right decision.

 

[TheBigA]

Here's a story on some of the talent displaced by the format change at WDZH:

http://www.insideradio.com/free/aft...cle_8c8beff6-2b7a-11eb-8ed1-1742da3c4898.html

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Everywhere. Phoenix, Detroit, you name it. There are 16,000 radio stations in the US. iHeart owns 800 stations, Entercom owns around 300, Cumulus owns 400. Subtract them, and you have thousands of local stations with full local staffs.

Full local staffs like in the 70s?

That's the claim you made. So rather than do some back of a napkin math, point me in the direction of a station - in Phoenix, Detroit, or even you name it - where there's for example a full-service station like the old WJR. I got to go on a tour of that "Great Voice of the Great Lakes" back in the early 80s. They had an entire news room devoted to local reporting, reporters, stringers, producers, local hosts on every shift, board ops so the hosts would never have to touch a knob, and engineers who would rush in if said board ops broke something.

Where does that exist today? You obviously don't have to list each of the "thousands of local stations with full local staffs," but can you at least name a hundred?

 

[TheBigA]

Full local staffs like in the 70s?

Full staffs as in live & local DJs, and not all national syndication. That's what we're talking about here.

But at the same time, WWJ and WJR each employ a lot of local news people considering the general view that radio is all syndicated.

Is it exactly as many as 50 years ago? Probably not. Did they have computers 50 years ago? Probably not.