Entercom Launches Alt 98.7

[MarkW]

I agree with you on 98.7's likely ratings. Absolute disgrace that the Breeze was scrapped for this. I stand by my earlier theory regarding listener compartmentalization. It's already been happening in some smaller market clusters for years.

Sampled 98.7 twice this afternoon, and on both occasions, I heard songs abruptly cut off mid-stream to segue to commercial breaks.

Saying they have a "diminishing use for FM radio" is making a judgement that doesn't come through in the research. They use FM (like all real time media) when its convenient. During covid, using FM hasn't been as convenient.

I'd argue during COVID that competitors to FM - such as Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, other digital music sources - have become more convenient to access. (Maybe you & I are saying the same thing.)

What has to change for younger formats to improve is for more new music to be released that targets that demo, and for the word of mouth about the music to drive interest.

I am not sure FM radio will be the go-to source for such music for listeners under the age of 35. I will agree with you insofar as the new music pickings for CHR/Pop are somewhat slim right now. Alternative has a decent amount of new music, it just isn't very good, and again, the audience who is "in" to that type of music probably isn't primarily sourcing it from FM radio.

 

[TheBigA]

I agree with you on 98.7's likely ratings. Absolute disgrace that the Breeze was scrapped for this.

Clearly the ratings for the Breeze simply weren't good enough to cover the high costs of a local staff. Entercom is already reaching that demo with other stations in the market, so the change was likely done to diversify the demo. We'll see if the former audience converts to other Entercom stations in the market, such as WOMC.

I am not sure FM radio will be the go-to source for such music for listeners under the age of 35.

We'll see. My lifestyle hasn't recovered at all. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Either way, radio stations have to adjust their budgeting and staffing for the audience they have now. That means less local talent.

 

[Kevin]

I find it interesting, that Entercom has broadcasted the Detroit Pistons game on WOMC 104.3 tonight. Why couldn’t Entercom air it on WWJ 950, WXYT AM 1270 or 97.1 The Ticket.

 

[davideduardo]

I am not sure FM radio will be the go-to source for such music for listeners under the age of 35. I will agree with you insofar as the new music pickings for CHR/Pop are somewhat slim right now. Alternative has a decent amount of new music, it just isn't very good, and again, the audience who is "in" to that type of music probably isn't primarily sourcing it from FM radio.

I have said this before, but...

Alt is a highly fragmented music universe. There is no single monolithic group that has common likes for a whole bunch of songs. There are factions, each with favorite artists and songs that may be not so well liked or even hated by other Alt factions. It's the ideal streaming / on demand format and a horrible OTA radio format as there is no consensus.

 

[TheBigA]

I find it interesting, that Entercom has broadcasted the Detroit Pistons game on WOMC 104.3 tonight. Why couldn’t Entercom air it on WWJ 950, WXYT AM 1270 or 97.1 The Ticket.

The Red Wings were on The Ticket. WOMC is streaming music on Radio.com

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I have said this before, but...

Alt is a highly fragmented music universe. There is no single monolithic group that has common likes for a whole bunch of songs. There are factions, each with favorite artists and songs that may be not so well liked or even hated by other Alt factions. It's the ideal streaming / on demand format and a horrible OTA radio format as there is no consensus.

Alternative has *always* been a highly fragmented music universe but at its peak, great programmers who actually knew something about music found consensus for artists and songs that, by conventional wisdom, didn't seem like they should fit together.

For example, this chart from this week in 1996 has been floating around the radio twitterverse this week. From Alice in Chains to Tori Amos and everything in between, Alternative offered star power and real variety running the gamut from heavy rock to melodic pop, and it worked.

Compare that to Entercom's boardroom "Alt" format today which is much more narrowly focused on the pop sound and lacks the same kind of star power. It's boring.


Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1351499972093440000

 

[MarkW]

David and Theater - you guys stated some excellent points! I agree completely.

Clearly the ratings for the Breeze simply weren't good enough to cover the high costs of a local staff. Entercom is already reaching that demo with other stations in the market, so the change was likely done to diversify the demo.

They had three full-time on-air staffers. Sandy Kovach (a well known broadcast veteran and longtime V98.7 smooth jazz personality) - I'm quite certain - was voicetracked.

PM drive had been switched to out-of-town voicetracking - first by Smokey Rivers and then by Race Taylor - about a year earlier.

While commercial loads weren't as impressive as some of the other stations in town, they weren't shabby.

I do agree that the Breeze probably cross-cumed rather heavily with WOMC and WWJ. It'll be interesting to see if disenfranchised Breeze listeners venture to WNIC & WOMC in roughly equal number or if WNIC benefits more heavily.

Advertisers looking to reach millennial adults likely won't be spending their money on purchasing ads on 98.7, though. They will continue to advertise predominantly on stations owned by iHM and Beasley.

98.7 - the station with the "two minute promise" that now interrupts music a half dozen or more times an hour in certain dayparts - has been filling some its intended sponsor airtime with PSAs. It's been a LONG time since I've heard an FM station in Detroit run so many public service announcements.

As formatted, this station will probably be lucky to generate $1 million annually in broadcast cash flow.

 

[Kevin]

Alternative has *always* been a highly fragmented music universe but at its peak, great programmers who actually knew something about music found consensus for artists and songs that, by conventional wisdom, didn't seem like they should fit together.

For example, this chart from this week in 1996 has been floating around the radio twitterverse this week. From Alice in Chains to Tori Amos and everything in between, Alternative offered star power and real variety running the gamut from heavy rock to melodic pop, and it worked.

Compare that to Entercom's boardroom "Alt" format today which is much more narrowly focused on the pop sound and lacks the same kind of star power. It's boring.

View attachment 1564
Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1351499972093440000

This chart is awesome, actually brings back memories of when radio was still a great listen. Thanks, Theater of My Mind for the great flashback.

 

[TheBigA]

Alternative has *always* been a highly fragmented music universe but at its peak, great programmers who actually knew something about music found consensus for artists and songs that, by conventional wisdom, didn't seem like they should fit together.

i read this all the time. "Great programmers who actually knew something about music." Like who? If you go through a list of those great programmers from 20 years ago, you're going to see the name Mike Kaplan. He was programming successful alternative stations then. He's in charge of Entercom now. He's the same guy. He knew music then, and he knows it now.

Kevin Weatherly was one of those guys too. He knew the music then, and he continued to know the music as the ratings at KROQ cratered. He had the exact same staff from the glory days. The same morning team that had once made KROQ among the Top 10 most listened to stations in the country. Same guy. He didn't become stupid. Something else changed. Gee what could that have been? Maybe the music. Maybe the people in charge of the labels where that music is being made. Maybe the music environment, where fans of the music can get any song they want at any time, and aren't beholden to charts or airplay. Maybe that changed. Maybe the whole world changed. Consider that for a minute. There's a lot more going on in the music world besides great programmers who know something about music.

Yes those are great charts from 25 years ago. They would make a great Classic Alt station, playing 25 year old songs. That's basically what alternative stations were doing a couple years ago, because the new music being made sucked and didn't attract consensus listeners the way the old stuff worked. But that's a different format. Now they're trying to play current music, and unfortunately the new music simply doesn't draw people the way it did 25 years ago because people get music in different ways. That's the new reality. It would be so much easier if we could get people to throw away their phones and computers and only use radio for their music. Then the great programmers who are still at these stations would once again look like geniuses.

 

[TheBigA]

98.7 - the station with the "two minute promise" that now interrupts music a half dozen or more times an hour in certain dayparts - has been filling some its intended sponsor airtime with PSAs. It's been a LONG time since I've heard an FM station in Detroit run so many public service announcements.

This is why companies don't like changing formats at stations, especially drastic format changes. It takes a long time to build research on the new audience to take to advertisers. It usually takes a full year. It doesn't happen in a month. Plus there's this little thing called THE PANDEMIC. Have you heard about it? It's causing people to do their shopping from home rather than go out to local stores and restaurants. Entire businesses that used to advertise on radio are SHUT DOWN. One of the biggest advertisers for alt stations is the concert business. They've shut down. So they're not advertising. This is a problem. You can't pay for local on air talent without advertisers. So it's going to take time.

 

[Kevin]

This is why companies don't like changing formats at stations, especially drastic format changes. It takes a long time to build research on the new audience to take to advertisers. It usually takes a full year. It doesn't happen in a month. Plus there's this little thing called THE PANDEMIC. Have you heard about it? It's causing people to do their shopping from home rather than go out to local stores and restaurants. Entire businesses that used to advertise on radio are SHUT DOWN. One of the biggest advertisers for alt stations is the concert business. They've shut down. So they're not advertising. This is a problem. You can't pay for local on air talent without advertisers. So it's going to take time.

So Big A here’s the question of the hour. Why did Entercom decide to flip a fairly decent rated station for a format that it’s main advertising depends on the concert business in the middle of pandemic? I’ll hang up and listen for your answer.

 

[TheBigA]

I’ll hang up and listen for your answer.

Ha...just like Larry King.

I said it earlier in the thread: They have other stations in the market that were aimed at that same audience, and this station was taking listeners from them. This is a younger more male audience than WOMC or WWJ. But it's also smaller. And apparently they want to sell a national platform in this format rather than a local format in soft rock.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

i read this all the time. "Great programmers who actually knew something about music." Like who? If you go through a list of those great programmers from 20 years ago, you're going to see the name Mike Kaplan.

Since this is the Detroit board let's talk about Greg St. James who was largely responsible for creating 89X.

The American-born-and-raised program director decided to do it strictly by ear. "Yeah, I knew what MuchMusic was, but I never watched it. And we really paid zero attention to what the A&R guys said. We really didn't give a ****," says St. James.

I think the Music Director in 1996, the time period of the chart posted above, was Vince Cannova.

The key to 89X's wildly innovative and diverse sound came from the fact that St. James was able to hire his own on-air staff, as he focused exclusively on his team's musical acumen rather than a smooth baritone delivery. But, according to Greg, it was the addition of two DJs specifically who helped shape the sound of the station: Vince Cannova, a programming assistant from San Diego's pioneering modern rock station 91X, and a young college radio DJ from Windsor named Greg Gnyp.

Meanwhile over on the AAA side at CIDR, Ann Delisi was MD (this is when Music directors still had role in actually picking music). Of course she's now over at WDET where the music is still chosen for its quality, not some lowest common denominator metric. The River's air staff at the time of those charts posted above, included Lori Biden who had been married to Paul Westerberg of The Replacements, so again, someone with real format credibility and musical accumen.

These are the kinds of things that made radio stations legendary. And successful enough for 89X to last almost 30 years before the current owner decided to neglect it and ultimately kill it in the kind of cost cutting blowout that epitomizes corporate radio these days.

Now you tell me how that compares to today's Alt, and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand why no one cares any more.

BTW if you want to read that whole article on 89X it's HERE.

 

[TheBigA]

Since this is the Detroit board let's talk about Greg St. James who was largely responsible for creating 89X.

That's a good article, and reflected a lot of the attitude of both radio and records at the time. Success can do a lot to change
attitudes over time. Rock music had become fat and rich in the 80s, and alternative came along (as punk rock did in the 70s) to tear down all the fat and rich rock stars. But what happens when the alternative artists fall prey to the same disease? That's what happened. That's why alternative fans now still love the old stuff. There are no current bands that can fill the stadiums the way the old bands can.

Meanwhile over on the AAA side at CIDR, Ann Delisi was MD (this is when Music directors still had role in actually picking music). Of course she's now over at WDET where the music is still chosen for its quality, not some lowest common denominator metric.

Absolutely. And tell me about the ratings at WDET. How are they doing? I know a lot of people just like her who've left the commercial world for Americana and AAA in public radio. Yes, they still make music decisions based on quality, and yes they fortunately don't have to deliver an audience for advertisers, because that simply wouldn't work. That's the problem. It's easy to be self-indulgent when you don't have to appeal to advertisers. That simply can't happen in commercial radio. I'll be the first to admit that. I've worked on both sides of the system and I understand the difference.

Now you tell me how that compares to today's Alt, and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand why no one cares any more.

Here's what I've learned: You can't bring back the past. The best you can do is deal with the cards you have now. Is Entercom doing the best it can do in this format? Not right now. They're being beat in every market by iHeart. But to say the people now don't know the music is really missing the point. They don't program stations for themselves. If they did, they'd get an audience of one. They program radio stations to reach an audience they can sell to advertisers. If that's too "LCD" for you, then you're right: Go to public radio, where the rules are different.

 

[Kevin]

Since this is the Detroit board let's talk about Greg St. James who was largely responsible for creating 89X.


I think the Music Director in 1996, the time period of the chart posted above, was Vince Cannova.


Meanwhile over on the AAA side at CIDR, Ann Delisi was MD (this is when Music directors still had role in actually picking music). Of course she's now over at WDET where the music is still chosen for its quality, not some lowest common denominator metric. The River's air staff at the time of those charts posted above, included Lori Biden who had been married to Paul Westerberg of The Replacements, so again, someone with real format credibility and musical accumen.

These are the kinds of things that made radio stations legendary. And successful enough for 89X to last almost 30 years before the current owner decided to neglect it and ultimately kill it in the kind of cost cutting blowout that epitomizes corporate radio these days.

Now you tell me how that compares to today's Alt, and maybe, just maybe, you'll understand why no one cares any more.

BTW if you want to read that whole article on 89X it's HERE.

St. James was genius for creating 89X back in 1990. The early days of 89X rocked, it was by far my favorite station for the first half of the 90’s. 89X also had John O‘Leary as an afternoon drive host for a couple of years. Where has all the great radio gone? I was turned on to so much great music by groups like The Sunday’s, Material Issue, Mazzy Star, Souxie and The Banshees, Kate Bush, Garbage, and a ton more great groups. I truly miss all of that. Also Vince Cannova was a class act on 89 X.

 

[MarkW]

I miss 92.3 Radio X in Kalamazoo. Station only lasted a couple years, but it is where I first heard Bush, No Doubt's "Spiderwebs," Garbage, Bad Religion, Live, and even Jewel!

That station previously was Oldies. I remember tuning in around 4:45p one afternoon - expecting to hear Oldies - and instead hearing "21st Century Digital Boy" by Bad Religion. Two or three songs later, "Little Things" by Bush played. I was hooked. FAR BETTER than the weak sauced and unadventurous WGRD in Grand Rapids.

WGRD landing the regions' top-rated local morning show coupled with another station in Grand Rapids grabbing Howard Stern and modernizing its playlist unfortunately squeezed out little Radio X, an 860 watt station broadcasting from a 600 foot tower in rural Allegan County (about 22 miles NW of Kalamazoo and 30 miles SSW of Grand Rapids).

1340 Underground in Grand Rapids was also a phenomenal station during the brief time it was on the air, but I was a little too young at the time (about 13 or 14 years old) to fully appreciate the music. I recall that station playing a lot of grunge and a lot of industrial rock (Nine Inch Nails especially). When WGRD flipped to a watered-down version of Alternative Rock, that spelled curtains for 1340 Underground.

 

[MarkW]

This is a younger more male audience than WOMC or WWJ. But it's also smaller. And apparently they want to sell a national platform in this format rather than a local format in soft rock.

"Male friendly" is not an adjective I would use to describe 98.7's girlie playlist, even though I agree they are probably trying to land a 55/45 or 60/40 male audience.

I suspect very little local input is factoring into music decisions. Would not surprise if me if the music in certain dayparts is identical on the various Entercom "Alt" stations, although I'm unable to prove that (mainly because the music log data on Entercom's station web sites tends to be incredibly unreliable).

No "Handlebars" by Flobots. No "Hey Mister" by Custom. No Billy Talent or Tragically Hip. No Sponge.

 

[TheBigA]

Would not surprise if me if the music in certain dayparts is identical on the various Entercom "Alt" stations,

They can't do that and continue to have each station as individual reporters to the alternative charts. The charts have rules about that kind of thing. Although since 98.7 isn't a chart reporter (doesn't meet the ratings qualifications yet) it doesn't matter.

A few weeks ago I did a Mediabase comparison of several Entercom alt stations (Dallas, NY, Seattle), and noticed several very obvious differences in playlists. But there are 2 or 3 currents that all stations are not playing.

 

[Kevin]

"Male friendly" is not an adjective I would use to describe 98.7's girlie playlist, even though I agree they are probably trying to land a 55/45 or 60/40 male audience.

I suspect very little local input is factoring into music decisions. Would not surprise if me if the music in certain dayparts is identical on the various Entercom "Alt" stations, although I'm unable to prove that (mainly because the music log data on Entercom's station web sites tends to be incredibly unreliable).

No "Handlebars" by Flobots. No "Hey Mister" by Custom. No Billy Talent or Tragically Hip. No Sponge.

But a lot of Billie Eilish. I have one question about her, where’s the talent?

 

[TheBigA]

But a lot of Billie Eilish. I have one question about her, where’s the talent?

Ask the Recording Academy. They gave her and her brother Finneas a dozen Grammy awards last year. In that way, the two of them became the leaders of the format.