Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?

[davideduardo]

This is all shadowed though by the caveat that radio is in trouble because it chased younger listeners away for so many years.

What do you mean by "younger"? Teens? 18 to 25?

Radio has not programmed for teens for many decades because there is no ad revenue. Advertisers seeking those under 18 were never plentiful, and they disappeared in the 70's for the most part.

Top 40 stations always looked at older teens as part of the target because they influence music. But if you think about it, Top 40 stations way back to the 70's that did traffic reports and the like were not thinking about teens as a main target.

But those stations did not chase listeners away... they did not focus on them, either.

Now things are getting urgent and they are scrambling for solutions as those younger listeners age and new younger listeners come of age.

What we have is societal change, with new content distribution and the ability to build one's own playlist. But we also have the issue with much current CHR and Urban format music that a large percentage can not legally be played on the radio. So those who want to hear it go to streaming.

 

[TheBigA]

What we have is societal change, with new content distribution and the ability to build one's own playlist.

Not only that, but todays children are being raised on video. Not just TV, but personal video from TikTok and YouTube. So its likely that in the future the real attraction is short video.

 

[radiorobert]

What are you talking about? What music would younger listeners have listened to if it was on the radio? Taylor Swift, the Jonas Brothers, and Miley Cyrus got loads of radio airplay.

What about the party tracks? The hip-hop, the alternative that they jammed out to? You think everyone listened to Taylor and Miley ALL the time? That shit was the compromise stuff. Gimme a break. No one listens in any meaningful way to over processed crap like that for longer than a short enough period of time to figure out if they like it. Maybe some young people in niche demos did.

Yeah kid that’s just Pop. I was talking about Alternative. Why am I still hearing as a 41 year old the majority of Rock stations playing an inordinate amount of rock geared toward 60 and 70 some year olds? Where’s the pure 90s alternative format?

 

[TheBigA]

Why am I still hearing as a 41 year old the majority of Rock stations playing an inordinate amount of rock geared toward 60 and 70 some year olds?

Maybe your generalization isn't true, given the classic rock stations, as well as active rock, tend to lead in 18-34. Those people younger than you have a different opinion of that rock music you think is aimed at your parents.

Where is 90s alt? Funny you should ask. iHeart just launched a station in that format in Indianapolis last month.

 

[radiorobert]

Maybe your generalization isn't true, given the classic rock stations, as well as active rock, tend to lead in 18-34. Those people younger than you have a different opinion of that rock music you think is aimed at your parents.

Where is 90s alt? Funny you should ask. iHeart just launched a station in that format in Indianapolis last month.

Really? That’s great. When does it hit the rest of the country?

 

[TheBigA]

Really? That’s great. When does it hit the rest of the country?

Some who post here would say that most of the alt stations around the country are pretty heavy in the 90s.

Apparently a few are doing all-90s for Labor Day weekend.

I will say the all 90's weekends currently airing on three of Cumulus' alternative stations - each with substantially different playlists -

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Maybe your generalization isn't true, given the classic rock stations, as well as active rock, tend to lead in 18-34. Those people younger than you have a different opinion of that rock music you think is aimed at your parents.

Young people listening to classic rock is probably not something to applaud. It can only mean one of three things:

1. Nielsen ratings are bogus
2. Programming strategies that used to work to attract younger people to CHR, Hot AC, Alt and other similar formats do not work any longer.
3. Today's 18-34 year olds are actually into Van Halen, Bob Seger and friends, which pins the failure on the record labels.

I have seen zero evidence for #3.

 

[TheBigA]

2. Programming strategies that used to work to attract younger people to CHR, Hot AC, Alt and other similar formats do not work any longer.

What makes you think just playing new hit music is a strategy? When the hits stop, the strategy is over.

People like what people like, regardless of strategy.

3. Today's 18-34 year olds are actually into Van Halen, Bob Seger and friends, which pins the failure on the record labels.
I have seen zero evidence for #3.

Bob Seger said it best 40 years ago. "Today's music ain't got the same soul."

Not all young people like new music. Just like not all old people like old music.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

What makes you think just playing new hit music is a strategy? When the hits stop, the strategy is over.

A format is an implementation of a strategy. Any format.

People like what people like, regardless of strategy.

I'm watching RadioInsight every day for stations flipping from Hot AC to Classic to get a slice of the young adult pie. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[davideduardo]

Yeah kid that’s just Pop. I was talking about Alternative. Why am I still hearing as a 41 year old the majority of Rock stations playing an inordinate amount of rock geared toward 60 and 70 some year olds? Where’s the pure 90s alternative format?

Alternative is a niche format and a niche genre today. The vast majority of younger music listeners, from teens into the 40's, look for rhythmic music. Alternative has a limited world market, and outside of the few Anglo White English speaking nations, it has little following elsewhere.

Further, "alternative" is highly fragmented into subsets of partisans within the marquee.

In the US, in all but a market or two, even country does better with young adults than alternative. And formats like AC, Hot AC, CHR, Urban, CHurban and even Reggaetón in more Hispanic markets outperforms alternative.

Oh, and those big 70's and 80's rock songs test very well with 18-34's.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Alternative is a niche format and a niche genre today...

Further, "alternative" is highly fragmented into subsets of partisans within the marquee.

Alternative was always niche but it was a format for adventurous music fans who did not want to hear the same old stuff that dominated the rest of the commercial radio dial.

In the 80's and 90's, MTV was still playing a dog's breakfast of pop music videos and there was no such thing as YouTube or streaming services so Alternative radio served those who were looking for new and different music. Maybe it didn't matter if their tastes were fragmented because they had nowhere else to turn.

These days, music fans who do not want to hear the mainstream stuff do not have to turn on the radio at all. That's probably why Alternative radio is having trouble, there are so many other options for them to find the music they like.

YouTube, social media and steaming services with their AI-generated playlists have become today's tastemakers and now, more than ever, commercial radio's role is to serve up pabulum for the masses.

 

[MarkW]

I really, really like the music I've heard on Alt 92.3 in New York the past hour, and the music log from overnight is impressive, too.

They are doing their all 90s weekend the right way. Much more effort and music variety has been infused into this effort than the lame A-to-Z feature on sister station WDZH.

https://onlineradiobox.com/us/wbmp/playlist/?cs=us.wbmp&played=1

 

[vchimpanzee]

Young people listening to classic rock is probably not something to applaud. It can only mean one of three things:

1. Nielsen ratings are bogus
2. Programming strategies that used to work to attract younger people to CHR, Hot AC, Alt and other similar formats do not work any longer.
3. Today's 18-34 year olds are actually into Van Halen, Bob Seger and friends, which pins the failure on the record labels.

I have seen zero evidence for #3.

Not 18-34 yet, but this cute girl on "Generation Gap" said she liked AC/DC and similar bands. I find this strange because she didn't have an AC/DC personality.

 

[gr8oldies]

What do you mean by "younger"? Teens? 18 to 25?

Radio has not programmed for teens for many decades because there is no ad revenue. Advertisers seeking those under 18 were never plentiful, and they disappeared in the 70's for the most part.

Top 40 stations always looked at older teens as part of the target because they influence music. But if you think about it, Top 40 stations way back to the 70's that did traffic reports and the like were not thinking about teens as a main target.

But those stations did not chase listeners away... they did not focus on them, either.

What we have is societal change, with new content distribution and the ability to build one's own playlist. But we also have the issue with much current CHR and Urban format music that a large percentage can not legally be played on the radio. So those who want to hear it go to streaming.

Certainly, teens were not buying cars from Merolis Chevrolet (CKLW) or doing the grocery shopping at Farmer Jack, but somebody must have been buying all of that zit cream advertised on top 40 radio (even the ABC Contemporary network). "Bennzoil Peroxide will save mankind".

 

[davideduardo]

Certainly, teens were not buying cars from Merolis Chevrolet (CKLW) or doing the grocery shopping at Farmer Jack, but somebody must have been buying all of that zit cream advertised on top 40 radio (even the ABC Contemporary network). "Bennzoil Peroxide will save mankind".

We have not had radio campaigns for that kind of product for around 40 years!

 

[gr8oldies]

We have not had radio campaigns for that kind of product for around 4

Did teens stop getting zits in the mid-80s?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

No, but beauty products like that have largely stopped being advertised on the radio.

I'd wager largely due to cable television offering the ability to show before & after photos, and offering a price per spot low enough that a product selling at $3.49 a tube can make a return on investment.

 

[davideduardo]

No, but beauty products like that have largely stopped being advertised on the radio.

I'd wager largely due to cable television offering the ability to show before & after photos, and offering a price per spot low enough that a product selling at $3.49 a tube can make a return on investment.

You make a very valid point there. Back in the 50's and 60's, TV was new and there were few channels and there was little teen-specific programming that had the reach of Top 40.

On the other hand, Top 40 radio often accounted for as much as 40% to 50% of local listening in smaller and medium markets, and was even as much as 25% to 30% in markets like Chicago and LA and San Francisco. So a radio buy was the only way to get to those with zits and pimples and boils and carbuncles and...

Now there are more products, and many are specific to ethnicity and even skin tone. So the use very specific web and TV channels which allow for visual presentation of "kids that are suddenly popular because they have blemish-free skin".

This is similar to why most senior products look for visual media. A medication for arthritis, for example, will benefit from visuals showing an active senior lifestyle after taking the product... walks on the beach, playing with grand kids in the park, working on a hobby... that create an illusion of a better life. And that is much harder to do with audio only.

 

[CTListener]

This is similar to why most senior products look for visual media. A medication for arthritis, for example, will benefit from visuals showing an active senior lifestyle after taking the product... walks on the beach, playing with grand kids in the park, working on a hobby... that create an illusion of a better life.

Not an illusion. Doing all those things actually does make life a whole lot better if your joints aren't stiff and painful.

 

[davideduardo]

Not an illusion. Doing all those things actually does make life a whole lot better if your joints aren't stiff and painful.

My point is that, probably, 99% of the people who see the ad and get a prescription for the product would never go on a walk on a beach or hike in a national park or do any of the very, very upscale activities that the ads show users doing.

What they are selling is a better lifestyle, while the drug will only relieve an ailment but not increase the user's income or pastimes.

In other words, taking a blood pressure med won't buy you a vacation home on the beach and pay for the $1,200 purebred Golden Retriever.