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Europe DX From North America?
- Thread starter Whale
- Start date
R
RichPhoenix
Guest
Yes, Whale, repeatedly over the years. Now, if you're talking AM over shortwave, it's a commonplace everyday thing.
On mediumwave (AM 530-1700 khz.), it is quite possible but requires optimum conditions. Keep in mind that the channel spacing in Europe is every 9 khz. as opposed to our every 10 khz., which effectively puts most European stations on split frequencies for a North American listener's purposes. Your best shot at hearing a European MW station will require a sensitive analogue or an every 9 khz. digital receiver.
As you may imagine, your best shot will be after the sun has gone down, as both MW and shortwave reception conditions are best when both sending and receiving locations are in darkness. As you already have experienced, the North American MW is a chaos of signals. Trying to pull out a European signal through all of that requires patience, a good receiver as mentioned earlier and hopefully, a list of European stations and their frequencies (available on the web). You would look for one of the stations listed with highest power (better than 100 kw.) and sandwiched between relatively weak or distant North American stations. Over the years, I have been able to pick up Spain, Germany and France with sufficient clarity to identify them by programme content. Years ago, Germany was an almost every night occurrence on 1586, then, I think, 1593, when the European frequencies were re-aligned. They could even be picked up on a very basic car radio driving up Route 287! (Of course, it was analogue). They were audible because they were running 800,000 watts at the time, and could be detected as receivable by the heterodyne they created sandwiched between stations on 1590 and 1600 -- at that time, WERA and WWRL.
FM from Europe is very, very rare and would require an extraordinary ionospheric event. It is equally troubled (if not moreso) by strong local FM signals and the facts that their frequency allocations differ with some stations on equal decimals (as opposed to odd) and the fact that typical FM radios, Stateside, have a high capture ratio built-in where weaker signals are automatically rejected and effectively blanked out when stronger local signals are present.
Meantime, don't be discouraged. This is potentially the best time of year for transatlantic AM DX with longer hours of darkness as well as reduced atmospheric noise. Haul out your best radio and give it a try!
Good luck and good listening!
On mediumwave (AM 530-1700 khz.), it is quite possible but requires optimum conditions. Keep in mind that the channel spacing in Europe is every 9 khz. as opposed to our every 10 khz., which effectively puts most European stations on split frequencies for a North American listener's purposes. Your best shot at hearing a European MW station will require a sensitive analogue or an every 9 khz. digital receiver.
As you may imagine, your best shot will be after the sun has gone down, as both MW and shortwave reception conditions are best when both sending and receiving locations are in darkness. As you already have experienced, the North American MW is a chaos of signals. Trying to pull out a European signal through all of that requires patience, a good receiver as mentioned earlier and hopefully, a list of European stations and their frequencies (available on the web). You would look for one of the stations listed with highest power (better than 100 kw.) and sandwiched between relatively weak or distant North American stations. Over the years, I have been able to pick up Spain, Germany and France with sufficient clarity to identify them by programme content. Years ago, Germany was an almost every night occurrence on 1586, then, I think, 1593, when the European frequencies were re-aligned. They could even be picked up on a very basic car radio driving up Route 287! (Of course, it was analogue). They were audible because they were running 800,000 watts at the time, and could be detected as receivable by the heterodyne they created sandwiched between stations on 1590 and 1600 -- at that time, WERA and WWRL.
FM from Europe is very, very rare and would require an extraordinary ionospheric event. It is equally troubled (if not moreso) by strong local FM signals and the facts that their frequency allocations differ with some stations on equal decimals (as opposed to odd) and the fact that typical FM radios, Stateside, have a high capture ratio built-in where weaker signals are automatically rejected and effectively blanked out when stronger local signals are present.
Meantime, don't be discouraged. This is potentially the best time of year for transatlantic AM DX with longer hours of darkness as well as reduced atmospheric noise. Haul out your best radio and give it a try!
Good luck and good listening!
> Has anyone ever received an AM or FM signal from Europe?
>
On AM, it's fairly common. Some stations, like NRK from Norway on 1314 and the Saudi station on 1521(which isn't Europe, really, but still TA) are likely catches even with an ordinary radio. Unless you have a communications receiver with a killer antenna setup, you pretty much have to leave it to chance, though.
Transatlantic FM would be an amazing catch. It has happened, as has TA TV DX, but both are exceptionally rare even from coastal locations with high-end gear.
>
On AM, it's fairly common. Some stations, like NRK from Norway on 1314 and the Saudi station on 1521(which isn't Europe, really, but still TA) are likely catches even with an ordinary radio. Unless you have a communications receiver with a killer antenna setup, you pretty much have to leave it to chance, though.
Transatlantic FM would be an amazing catch. It has happened, as has TA TV DX, but both are exceptionally rare even from coastal locations with high-end gear.
> Has anyone ever received an AM or FM signal from Europe?
I've heard a few AM signals. Only two ever identified were Talksport on both their 1053 and 1089 frequencies. Croatia on 1134, Norway (I keep forgetting whether it's 1314 or 1413), and Saudi Arabia (1521) seem frequently reported.
Signals get weaker FAST as you go inland. If you're within 200 miles or so of the Atlantic you'll do a LOT better than I do here in the Nashville area. European signals *have* been heard from the West Coast but VERY large antennas are involved. As others have said, interference is the problem. (I suspect that if every station in North America shut down for a night, most of us could ID at least one European station on our car radio...)
I'm not aware of anyone in North America ever hearing Europe on FM. It is certainly possible, as the path has been worked in the other direction -- listeners in Britain (and possibly Netherlands) hearing American stations. I've heard a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station made in Northern Ireland. Multiple-hop sporadic-E is involved; this is a summertime phonomonon.
I've heard a few AM signals. Only two ever identified were Talksport on both their 1053 and 1089 frequencies. Croatia on 1134, Norway (I keep forgetting whether it's 1314 or 1413), and Saudi Arabia (1521) seem frequently reported.
Signals get weaker FAST as you go inland. If you're within 200 miles or so of the Atlantic you'll do a LOT better than I do here in the Nashville area. European signals *have* been heard from the West Coast but VERY large antennas are involved. As others have said, interference is the problem. (I suspect that if every station in North America shut down for a night, most of us could ID at least one European station on our car radio...)
I'm not aware of anyone in North America ever hearing Europe on FM. It is certainly possible, as the path has been worked in the other direction -- listeners in Britain (and possibly Netherlands) hearing American stations. I've heard a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station made in Northern Ireland. Multiple-hop sporadic-E is involved; this is a summertime phonomonon.
> I've heard
> a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
> made in Northern Ireland.
I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was mighty impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not -- around that same time, reception of other stations as far into North America as upstate New York was made.
Of course, all this is quite rare.
Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the East Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe. He did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But, that's a different discussion.
DE
> a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
> made in Northern Ireland.
I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was mighty impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not -- around that same time, reception of other stations as far into North America as upstate New York was made.
Of course, all this is quite rare.
Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the East Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe. He did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But, that's a different discussion.
DE
> > I've heard
> > a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
> > made in Northern Ireland.
>
> I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was mighty
> impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not -- around
> that same time, reception of other stations as far into
> North America as upstate New York was made.
>
> Of course, all this is quite rare.
>
> Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the East
> Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years
> ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi
> Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe. He
> did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It
> really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But,
> that's a different discussion.
>
> DE
Pick up a couple of issues of Popular Communications which is a hobby magazine devoted to all kinds of radio listeners (SW,CB,Ham,Scanner). There is a column in it every month of MW dx including the European stations being picked up in the states. But to get alot of them, most set out for coastal areas on the east coast and monitor with lots of wire....
I know when the sunspot count was up in the early 1990's around the time of the 1st Iraq war, I was picking up a few LW stations from Europe. Those are stations that broadcast below the standard MW band and are a lot more likely to be heard in the states as all you are fighting here is a few LW enthusiests around 175 khz and the aircraft beacons which don't get too far from the transmitter usually...
For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
For LW try the above and http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
RFLA
>
> > a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
> > made in Northern Ireland.
>
> I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was mighty
> impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not -- around
> that same time, reception of other stations as far into
> North America as upstate New York was made.
>
> Of course, all this is quite rare.
>
> Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the East
> Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years
> ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi
> Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe. He
> did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It
> really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But,
> that's a different discussion.
>
> DE
Pick up a couple of issues of Popular Communications which is a hobby magazine devoted to all kinds of radio listeners (SW,CB,Ham,Scanner). There is a column in it every month of MW dx including the European stations being picked up in the states. But to get alot of them, most set out for coastal areas on the east coast and monitor with lots of wire....
I know when the sunspot count was up in the early 1990's around the time of the 1st Iraq war, I was picking up a few LW stations from Europe. Those are stations that broadcast below the standard MW band and are a lot more likely to be heard in the states as all you are fighting here is a few LW enthusiests around 175 khz and the aircraft beacons which don't get too far from the transmitter usually...
For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
For LW try the above and http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
RFLA
>
> > > I've heard
> > > a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
>
> > > made in Northern Ireland.
> >
> > I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was
> mighty
> > impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not --
> around
> > that same time, reception of other stations as far into
> > North America as upstate New York was made.
> >
> > Of course, all this is quite rare.
> >
> > Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the
> East
> > Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years
>
> > ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi
> > Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe.
> He
> > did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It
> > really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But,
> > that's a different discussion.
> >
> > DE
>
>
>
> Pick up a couple of issues of Popular Communications which
> is a hobby magazine devoted to all kinds of radio listeners
> (SW,CB,Ham,Scanner). There is a column in it every month of
> MW dx including the European stations being picked up in the
> states. But to get alot of them, most set out for coastal
> areas on the east coast and monitor with lots of wire....
>
> I know when the sunspot count was up in the early 1990's
> around the time of the 1st Iraq war, I was picking up a few
> LW stations from Europe. Those are stations that broadcast
> below the standard MW band and are a lot more likely to be
> heard in the states as all you are fighting here is a few LW
> enthusiests around 175 khz and the aircraft beacons which
> don't get too far from the transmitter usually...
>
> For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and
> sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
>
> For LW try the above and
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
I have an old (late 70s-early 80s vintage) Realistic portable LW/MW/SW/FM receiver. It works great for SW and FM, would be fine for AM if that band selection button didn't act goofy, but I have no idea if it works on LW at all since I've never picked up anything but the faintest of mumbles. How (without constructing an enormous longwire or anything else requiring lots of money and space) can I improve my chances of LW catches?
> > > a no-doubt-about-it recording of a Bangor, Maine station
>
> > > made in Northern Ireland.
> >
> > I have heard the same recording Doug has, and it was
> mighty
> > impressive. If memory serves -- and it might not --
> around
> > that same time, reception of other stations as far into
> > North America as upstate New York was made.
> >
> > Of course, all this is quite rare.
> >
> > Doug is also quite right that as one gets away from the
> East
> > Coast, TA AM reception drops off very quickly. Many years
>
> > ago, my brother was an avid BCB DXer on the Mississippi
> > Coast. He NEVER got an identifiable signal from Europe.
> He
> > did get West Africa once or twice, but NEVER Europe. It
> > really annoyed him. He never got Hawaii, either. But,
> > that's a different discussion.
> >
> > DE
>
>
>
> Pick up a couple of issues of Popular Communications which
> is a hobby magazine devoted to all kinds of radio listeners
> (SW,CB,Ham,Scanner). There is a column in it every month of
> MW dx including the European stations being picked up in the
> states. But to get alot of them, most set out for coastal
> areas on the east coast and monitor with lots of wire....
>
> I know when the sunspot count was up in the early 1990's
> around the time of the 1st Iraq war, I was picking up a few
> LW stations from Europe. Those are stations that broadcast
> below the standard MW band and are a lot more likely to be
> heard in the states as all you are fighting here is a few LW
> enthusiests around 175 khz and the aircraft beacons which
> don't get too far from the transmitter usually...
>
> For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and
> sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
>
> For LW try the above and
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
I have an old (late 70s-early 80s vintage) Realistic portable LW/MW/SW/FM receiver. It works great for SW and FM, would be fine for AM if that band selection button didn't act goofy, but I have no idea if it works on LW at all since I've never picked up anything but the faintest of mumbles. How (without constructing an enormous longwire or anything else requiring lots of money and space) can I improve my chances of LW catches?
http://www.skywaves.info/fmta.html
The aircheck of the aforementioned Northern Ireland to Bangor e-skip can be found about halfway down on this website. Being a big FM DX'er, this aircheck always sends chills down my spine just thinking about how absolutely amazing it would be to actually be the guy who heard this!<P ID="signature">______________
Lawppy.. Southern Michigan FM DX Freak
727 stations and counting
http://michradio.blogspot.com</P>
The aircheck of the aforementioned Northern Ireland to Bangor e-skip can be found about halfway down on this website. Being a big FM DX'er, this aircheck always sends chills down my spine just thinking about how absolutely amazing it would be to actually be the guy who heard this!<P ID="signature">______________
Lawppy.. Southern Michigan FM DX Freak
727 stations and counting
http://michradio.blogspot.com</P>
> >
> > For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and
> > sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
> >
> > For LW try the above and
> > http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
>
> I have an old (late 70s-early 80s vintage) Realistic
> portable LW/MW/SW/FM receiver. It works great for SW and
> FM, would be fine for AM if that band selection button
> didn't act goofy, but I have no idea if it works on LW at
> all since I've never picked up anything but the faintest of
> mumbles. How (without constructing an enormous longwire or
> anything else requiring lots of money and space) can I
> improve my chances of LW catches?
>
Unfortuneately, my chances of catching anything on that band involved at least 50-100 feet of wire at least.
In the states, usually you will hear nothing except possibly CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather stations broadcasting automated weather, except during sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good again.
There are loop antennas you can build but then it would probably be over your budject to see if the radio picks up anything...
Anyone else have ideas?
RFLA
> > For ideas on catches on the MW (AM band) ,try google and
> > sources such as http://www.dxtuners.com
> >
> > For LW try the above and
> > http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/lw.htm
>
> I have an old (late 70s-early 80s vintage) Realistic
> portable LW/MW/SW/FM receiver. It works great for SW and
> FM, would be fine for AM if that band selection button
> didn't act goofy, but I have no idea if it works on LW at
> all since I've never picked up anything but the faintest of
> mumbles. How (without constructing an enormous longwire or
> anything else requiring lots of money and space) can I
> improve my chances of LW catches?
>
Unfortuneately, my chances of catching anything on that band involved at least 50-100 feet of wire at least.
In the states, usually you will hear nothing except possibly CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather stations broadcasting automated weather, except during sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good again.
There are loop antennas you can build but then it would probably be over your budject to see if the radio picks up anything...
Anyone else have ideas?
RFLA
> In the states, usually you will hear nothing except possibly
> CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather
> stations broadcasting automated weather, except during
> sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good
> again.
Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just isn't an issue that low.
Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject. I did read a study recently that implied that trans-polar paths on low frequencies improve most as solar activity decreases.
On shortwave, you will see a difference on the higher bands as solar activity increases. Fortunately, it seems we are getting pretty close to solar minima. In the next few years, conditions on the higher frequencies will improve.
DE
> CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather
> stations broadcasting automated weather, except during
> sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good
> again.
Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just isn't an issue that low.
Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject. I did read a study recently that implied that trans-polar paths on low frequencies improve most as solar activity decreases.
On shortwave, you will see a difference on the higher bands as solar activity increases. Fortunately, it seems we are getting pretty close to solar minima. In the next few years, conditions on the higher frequencies will improve.
DE
> > In the states, usually you will hear nothing except
> possibly
> > CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather
> > stations broadcasting automated weather, except during
> > sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good
> > again.
>
> Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and
> mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just
> isn't an issue that low.
>
> Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better
> for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there
> doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject.
> I did read a study recently that implied that trans-polar
> paths on low frequencies improve most as solar activity
> decreases.
>
> On shortwave, you will see a difference on the higher bands
> as solar activity increases. Fortunately, it seems we are
> getting pretty close to solar minima. In the next few
> years, conditions on the higher frequencies will improve.
>
> DE
>
All I know was my best success I seem to ever have with the LW band for European contacts was during that sunspot max around 1990-1991. Got better equipment and antennas now (after about 10 years out of it) and get to hear nothing but ND Beacons for aircraft on LW now. Haven't tried the beverage antennas and such as what made MW,LW,and SW fun for me, which was the music programs and local station relays are gone and can now be found online at websites now...
RFLA
> possibly
> > CW from the airport beacons and a few of the weather
> > stations broadcasting automated weather, except during
> > sunspot time and we have a few years till it gets good
> > again.
>
> Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and
> mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just
> isn't an issue that low.
>
> Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better
> for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there
> doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject.
> I did read a study recently that implied that trans-polar
> paths on low frequencies improve most as solar activity
> decreases.
>
> On shortwave, you will see a difference on the higher bands
> as solar activity increases. Fortunately, it seems we are
> getting pretty close to solar minima. In the next few
> years, conditions on the higher frequencies will improve.
>
> DE
>
All I know was my best success I seem to ever have with the LW band for European contacts was during that sunspot max around 1990-1991. Got better equipment and antennas now (after about 10 years out of it) and get to hear nothing but ND Beacons for aircraft on LW now. Haven't tried the beverage antennas and such as what made MW,LW,and SW fun for me, which was the music programs and local station relays are gone and can now be found online at websites now...
RFLA
Re: Sunspots and MW DX.
> Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and
> mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just
> isn't an issue that low.
Ohmygawd. Sunspots have an immense effect on MW skywave propagation, with the 11 year cycle being closely tracekd by AM DXers and the indices being reported in every MW club bulletin. Long distance DX is very definitely logged in direct proportion to the sunspot cycles.
>
> Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better
> for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there
> doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject.
Just 85 years of MW DX. Compare the loggings at peak with low spots, especially when frequencies were clearer in the 50´s and 60´s. The long haul stuff was far more prevalent in the low cycle spot.
Or ask any veteran in the IRCA or NRC or the Mdeium Wave Circle or the NZDXA... or ARC. Sunspots have everyting to do with MW DX:
> Actually, sunspots have very little to do with longwave and
> mediumwave stuff. MUF, maximum useable frequency, just
> isn't an issue that low.
Ohmygawd. Sunspots have an immense effect on MW skywave propagation, with the 11 year cycle being closely tracekd by AM DXers and the indices being reported in every MW club bulletin. Long distance DX is very definitely logged in direct proportion to the sunspot cycles.
>
> Some argue that the bottom of the cycle is actually better
> for these really low frequencies. Unfortunately, there
> doesn't seem to be much reliable, hard data on the subject.
Just 85 years of MW DX. Compare the loggings at peak with low spots, especially when frequencies were clearer in the 50´s and 60´s. The long haul stuff was far more prevalent in the low cycle spot.
Or ask any veteran in the IRCA or NRC or the Mdeium Wave Circle or the NZDXA... or ARC. Sunspots have everyting to do with MW DX:
> http://www.skywaves.info/fmta.html
>
> The aircheck of the aforementioned Northern Ireland to
> Bangor e-skip can be found about halfway down on this
> website. Being a big FM DX'er, this aircheck always sends
> chills down my spine just thinking about how absolutely
> amazing it would be to actually be the guy who heard this!
>
That looks like it was recorded in Northern Ireland of a Bangor station, not the other way around.
>
> The aircheck of the aforementioned Northern Ireland to
> Bangor e-skip can be found about halfway down on this
> website. Being a big FM DX'er, this aircheck always sends
> chills down my spine just thinking about how absolutely
> amazing it would be to actually be the guy who heard this!
>
That looks like it was recorded in Northern Ireland of a Bangor station, not the other way around.
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