Fab Four At 4

[DToTheJ]

At this time, not only is WOGL doing their "Fab 4 at 4" segment, but WVLT - the oldies rimshotter from Southern New Jersey - is also doing their own "Fab 4 at 4". Shouldn't 'OGL own the market exclusivity for the "Fab 4 at 4"?

 

[imhomerjay]

Since they can't very well trademark the name Fab Four, no, they can't "own" it for the market. Though in WVLT's case, Fab Four may really mean all of their listeners.

 

[WTUX]

No station can "own" that. However, such an obvious copying of what another station is doing shows the lack of talented thinking at WVLT.

 

[Those RRRRs]

No station can "own" that. However, such an obvious copying of what another station is doing shows the lack of talented thinking at WVLT.

WVLT does not in any way, shape, or form copy WOGL. WVLT actually has an expanded playlist complete with specialty shows that feature regional hits and real oldies that WOGL has never touched.

When was the last time WOGL played a 50's song in regular rotation? WVLT regularly plays music of the 50's and early 60's. With WOGL it's a combination of horrible disco and the same recycled so-called classic hits that are regularly featured on 102.9 FM. What a terrible radio station.

WVLT is one of the last mom and pop operations on the dial in this area, plus it has personality. Is your solution to the WVLT problem to sell it and have it sound like every other boring, clueless, and out of touch radio station in the area? There's a very good reason radio is dying. Scan the freakin' dial for crying out loud.

To accuse WVLT of copying WOGL when 98.1 is just another corporate owned cookie cutter radio station that somehow sounds even worse than most other corporate owned cookie cutter radio stations is ludicrous at best.

 

[GlennSummers]

While I'll give WVLT a scintilla of credit for playing oldies other than the usual suspects and regional hits, they don't do it consistently. The daily shows are skewed toward certain adueinces and do not mix the oldies you would think an oldies statio would play with the regionals hits and others. The overall product would sound a hell of a lot better as as whole if the daily jocks would put aside their selfish favorites and mix it up. I don't know who the PD is, but he's doing a horrible job.
As for mom and pop...only in their programming philosophy. If they are such a great, personality driven radio station, why not drop all that horrific talk programming, clean up the air product and actually sell commercials? Okay, Cumberland County may not be the hotbead of sales activity, but for cryin' out loud, I don't think I've heard an agency spot there in quite some time. The could be the great white in a very small pond if they just tweaked it a bit. All it takes is competent leadership.
And if they would sell it, what makes you think the new owner wouldn't just tighten up the programming and still keep the personality? Methinks you believe all broadcasters are corporate whores.
Just my $.02

 

[crmc]

So your metric of measurement isn't ratings driven, correct?

 

[WTUX]

The most listened to oldies station in the region has "The Fab 4 at 4". You decide to also have "The Fab 4 at 4". That's not copying? If not, what is it? I did not refer to anything else they did, but that is clearly a copy.

As to music from the 50's. I happen to like it. Unfortunately, I am in a very small minority. In my oldies dj days, I always had one 50's song in every 6 song set (WOGL had about 1 out of 12). The problem is, few people identify with that music anymore. Notice that WOGL ratings have improved by removing most pre-1964 music from the playlist. Fans of the 50's era rock and roll have died off the same as fans of the Big Band era. Oh sure, you can still get people out to 50's R&R just as you can get people to pay for Big Band shows. Specials sell. But a steady diet? No way.

 

[crmc]

Right.Because things like radio stations evolve with the tastes of their audience.Look at the terrific Standards stations there were. Some of our best music and personalities.And the format is virtually gone. I can site several that were top 5 in total audience, but all older,that had to change because of the age discriminatory ad community's unwillingness to buy a station " serving seniors".
I lived thru the inside critics blaming the sales initiative, inept management, idiotic corporate or greedy wall street.Largely, it was none of those factors.The business runs from advertiser support, and if the demo stays targeted to adults 25-54, these stations will continue to disappear or evolve.

While many miss the sock-hop sound that made the WOGL's of the world comfort food to so many of us, those that wouldn't or couldn't evolve, disappeared either in a quick switch or by dying a slow death.

Do you think an internet stream on their website or HD channel provided by these types of stations would satisfy these critics who thirst for the 50s and early 60s sound?

 

[doowopvault]

First off, WVLT's income is from brokered airtime. They don't need to sell advertising. Second,There is this atitude where if you are an independently owned station, "nobody is listening". I know maaaaaaaany people that stopped listening to OGL. They swiched to the independent DJ's on VLT, and RDV. You get a better mix of 1950's cuts. Why? because what you hear is right from the DJ's own collection. They are not button pushing whores that will play anything for a paycheck. So they can brag that "they are in the business". They love what they play. They have a vast knowledge of what they play.

 

[Those RRRRs]

Notice that WOGL ratings have improved by removing most pre-1964 music from the playlist.

I think this argument is lacking cause and effect. Sure, their ratings may be higher now, but back when they played pre 1964 music, they also had a lot more competition.

For example, there was always either WNJO in Jersey, or Sunny, or Solid Gold 102, or WFIL, or WPEN, or Oldies 1210, or Kiss 100, or EAZY 101, or WPGR, or Magic (when it was easy listening), or Jammin' 95.7, or Smooth Jazz 106.1, there were probably others too. (The new smooth jazz is no competition because it's not really smooth jazz anymore)

The point is they always had some form of competition. Now there is almost nothing. The B doesn't count...different audience, more hardcore than the WOGL audience. Even 106.1 is no competition because their audience consists mostly of women of a certain age.

Go to South Jersey and walk into public places such as stores and restaurants. Many of them are listening to WVLT, almost none of them are listening to WOGL from what I hear. I submit that if 98.1 started playing the pre 1964 music again that their ratings wouldn't be affected much at all because for many people there is nothing else to listen to anymore.

 

[crmc]

Your passion is admired. However, to succeed in the business part of the radio BUSINESS, ratings equal revenue. That's a formula that some station get and some don't. Those that do survive and thrive.

You may not agree, but that is a fact.

 

[doowopvault]

The difference between a business that is successful and one that fails is this:they are not satisfied with making a profit, they want to make the biggest profit possible.Let's apply that to radio. What you have is their achilles heel. they mess with what is already working. And various stations have been screwed up as a result of this mentality. These corporate stations killed their listenership with their cookie cutter programing, or changing their format to Rap & Hip Hop. Not to mention gutting the station of it's employees and hiring on button pusher to run the station. The small independent stations are satisfied with their programing. They are not raking in millions, but they are making money. They're making money from their brokered programs, which by the way, are ALOT MORE entertaining than what the corporate whores have to offer. And from some advertisers. So why mess with what isn't broke.

 

[crmc]

I completely agree with you. The comments made were in reference to WOGL, a ststion that seems to, from my perspective, be at the top of it's game ;ratings,revenue, stable staff, satisfied audience.

Your observations, as a sweeping generalization overview of the state of not just radio today, but all of corpotare America, are more right than wrong. But to look at a station enjoying record success, ratings, and revenue and categorize it as broken and in decline because it doesn't play much of a genre of music that is largely more than 50 years old is short-sighted and just wrong.

The winners in the ratings and revenue game ask their listeners what they want then give it to them. Then the listeners reward them with loyalty and response to their advertising partners.

Then we have boards like this where we can post our left of center opinions and second guess one another, ctiticize the winners and applaud the underdog.

And ..as Bill Drake popularized..."and the Rock rolls on...in Stereo!!"

 

[doowopvault]

I was just referring to some of the people on this board that have this mind-set. ie, if you are a small, independent station with brokered programing, nobody is listening. If your transmitter is not pumping out 50.000 watts, nobody is listening etc. Every genre has it's following. some more than others. But to say that the 50's early 60's is dead is very wrong. Corporate radio would like you to think that. Why? because they would rather go with the music that caters to the teen to late 20's crowd. They have the biggest disposable income. So the advertisers will pay big money to advertise on a station that caters to this group. So don't listen to station owners that feed you this crap. To this group, they have no pride in what is being broadcasted. All they care about is more AND MORE AND MORE profits and to hell with quality.

 

[imhomerjay]

What you have is their achilles heel. they mess with what is already working.

The flip side though is that to ignore changes in the market can lead to failure. Full-service music radio once worked well. With few exceptions, it does not work today. Changing was a necessity dictated by the market.

"Working" is not clearly defined in your example. Ratings within a target demographic are generally the key. And, yes, that means if your listeners age out of the target demographic, the fact that they may stay with you is irrelevant, and what you're doing then, by definition, isn't "working."

 

[imhomerjay]

I think this argument is lacking cause and effect. Sure, their ratings may be higher now, but back when they played pre 1964 music, they also had a lot more competition.

For example, there was always either WNJO in Jersey, or Sunny, or Solid Gold 102, or WFIL, or WPEN, or Oldies 1210, or Kiss 100, or EAZY 101, or WPGR, or Magic (when it was easy listening), or Jammin' 95.7, or Smooth Jazz 106.1, there were probably others too. (The new smooth jazz is no competition because it's not really smooth jazz anymore)

The point is they always had some form of competition. Now there is almost nothing. The B doesn't count...different audience, more hardcore than the WOGL audience. Even 106.1 is no competition because their audience consists mostly of women of a certain age.

Go to South Jersey and walk into public places such as stores and restaurants. Many of them are listening to WVLT, almost none of them are listening to WOGL from what I hear. I submit that if 98.1 started playing the pre 1964 music again that their ratings wouldn't be affected much at all because for many people there is nothing else to listen to anymore.

Cause and effect is difficult to prove no matter what the argument, because the variables extend beyond what else was on the dial at any given time. The members of the audience have changed, the media and entertainment landscape has changed. Those factors can't be removed from the equation to prove or disprove a direct correlation with either the change in music or the differing competition. That said, though, only WOGL remains standing among the competitors cited (even if some were only partially overlapping in format). Like them, hate them or don't care either way, they've emerged victorious as of this time. That results suggests that even with the competition that has existed, WOGL did a better job of giving more listeners what they wanted than did the competitors.

Moreover, the measure of success is about sales. Like it, dislike it, all of the listeners in the world don't mean much if they're not sellable. There, too, radio is simply facing a different reality than 10, 20 or 30 years ago--and I don't mean competition from other radio stations. Radio as a whole has to compete with the Internet for marketing dollars now--and the Internet holds great appeal for marketers because it's more accurately measured than broadcast. Radio also has to compete with local cable in a way they didn't 20 years ago, when local sales was just getting ramped up and the selection of channels was far smaller than it is today. Advertisers want more specific targets who are actually likely to be consumers of their products, not raw numbers.

As John Wanamaker is credited with saying from my understanding, he always knew half of his advertising was wasted, he just didn't know which half. Getting a smaller group of listeners, but ones advertisers want to reach, is more valuable than piling on people who advertisers don't want.

To date it has been true that older people are not as desirable to as many companies. There's a good chance the aging of the baby boom population will change the landscape; how much remains to be seen.

 

[crmc]

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head.