Failures with great signals

[MsMusicRadio]

Growing up in a white collar professional neighborhood in Pittsburgh, I was aware that country music was considered "ethnic" and Southerners were perceived as exotic foreigners. Of course that was the Fifties and WCKY was the closest thing Pittsburgh had to a country outlet

 

[trusty]

...Southerners were perceived as exotic foreigners.

A sentence that will forever burn in my mind as I listen to some exotic foreign music...

 

[firepoint525]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

 

[michael hagerty]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

 

[radiorob2.0]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

 

[catfishal]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

Billing or not, WSM has really improved in the last year. They have added Americana music to the playlist including lots of new releases, including a new live weekly show, Music City Roots. They may not be making the money they could be but I wouldn't call this a total failure. If they would have changed formats in '02 or been sold to Cumulus, they probably would have ended up being mostly satellite fed.

 

[michael hagerty]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

Billing or not, WSM has really improved in the last year. They have added Americana music to the playlist including lots of new releases, including a new live weekly show, Music City Roots. They may not be making the money they could be but I wouldn't call this a total failure. If they would have changed formats in '02 or been sold to Cumulus, they probably would have ended up being mostly satellite fed.

Again, I don't think WSM is about success in a typical broadcast model. It's there to constantly promote the Opry, Opryland and the rest.

 

[radiorob2.0]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

Billing or not, WSM has really improved in the last year. They have added Americana music to the playlist including lots of new releases, including a new live weekly show, Music City Roots. They may not be making the money they could be but I wouldn't call this a total failure. If they would have changed formats in '02 or been sold to Cumulus, they probably would have ended up being mostly satellite fed.

Again, I don't think WSM is about success in a typical broadcast model. It's there to constantly promote the Opry, Opryland and the rest.

Let me repeat......Gaylord will only sell WSM and the Opry as a package deal! Cumulus at best had an agreement to manage and sell inventory on WSM (650) but purchased WSM-FM and WTN outright. Also, Opryland no longer exist and the only Gaylord property beyond the Opry is the hotel where WSM has a studio. The connection between WSM and the Opry is exploited on the air, but that goes only so far. WSM just sits there with little investment and allowed only necessary expenses. Unless it has changed WSM no longer has a full time engineer.

Everyone knows WSM and will sing the praises regarding its country heritage but few actually listen. It may have been mentioned in this thread (too lazy to look) but DavidEduardo has said WSM is billing 20k/month; great for a small market but a tragedy for a signal that size in a market like Nashville. The addition of Americana and Bluegrass is a great idea but on AM with little promotion its chance of success is slim.

 

[catfishal]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

Billing or not, WSM has really improved in the last year. They have added Americana music to the playlist including lots of new releases, including a new live weekly show, Music City Roots. They may not be making the money they could be but I wouldn't call this a total failure. If they would have changed formats in '02 or been sold to Cumulus, they probably would have ended up being mostly satellite fed.

Again, I don't think WSM is about success in a typical broadcast model. It's there to constantly promote the Opry, Opryland and the rest.

Let me repeat......Gaylord will only sell WSM and the Opry as a package deal! Cumulus at best had an agreement to manage and sell inventory on WSM (650) but purchased WSM-FM and WTN outright. Also, Opryland no longer exist and the only Gaylord property beyond the Opry is the hotel where WSM has a studio. The connection between WSM and the Opry is exploited on the air, but that goes only so far. WSM just sits there with little investment and allowed only necessary expenses. Unless it has changed WSM no longer has a full time engineer.

Everyone knows WSM and will sing the praises regarding its country heritage but few actually listen. It may have been mentioned in this thread (too lazy to look) but DavidEduardo has said WSM is billing 20k/month; great for a small market but a tragedy for a signal that size in a market like Nashville. The addition of Americana and Bluegrass is a great idea but on AM with little promotion its chance of success is slim.

I'm sure that is true now that Gaylord will only sell WSM and the Opry as a package deal. I remember reading at one point though when the two FMs were sold that Cumulus was to buy WSM-AM as well but Gaylord backed out at the last minute...probably to avoid any bad press again. I am one of those who does listen alot...in fact WSM is my favorite broadcast station, I'm not going to hide that. And I do support some of their sponsors. Opry or not you have to give Gaylord some credit for trying to trying to run a music station on AM that is mostly live and local.

 

[firepoint525]

Just to be clear, "Opryland" refers to the Opryland Hotel, which is indeed still there. The Opryland theme park that gave the area its name closed around 1997. Signs along the interstate still promote "Opryland" at the appropriate exit, but we locals all know that that refers to the hotel.

With the sad state of AM radio these days, it won't be long before WSM is completely worthless. Nothing against them specifically, it's just that they are on a band that has been slowly dying for the last 30+ years.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

DX'ing in Tampa is almost a waste of time compared to what was out there in Pennsylvania in the Fifties. You can get WBT, WSB, WLW, WWL, occassionally WCBS, but also WSM. I still listen to WSM when I can cause it brings back memories of the time I decided to check out these "exotic parts" and went to the Ryman and Tootsie's Orchid Bar and Grill. I certainly see this station as part of the real country heritage package.

PS------Taylor Swift is not country.

 

[michael hagerty]

A case can be made that WLAC in Nashville didn't live up to its 50,000-watt potential for a number of years.

WSM Nashville is the worst performing of the original 1A clear channels. It bills about one-20th of the lowest tier of 1A billers, WHO,WHAM, WOAI. It has nearly no 25-54 listening, and certainly can't be making any money.

This is why the "almost" format change for them that never was, was such a big mistake for them, back in 2002. They flirted with a format change back then, but were "shouted down" by all their listeners at that time. I say that not going forward with the change was a mistake, because it only postponed the "day of reckoning" that is still coming for them. If they had taken care of this seven years ago, everyone would have gotten over it by now.

I'm glad WSM didn't change format,I like their Country Music and Listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

Being a "heritage" station won't pay the bills. They still need to turn a profit. I'm wondering if Gaylord's other stations (do they still have any others?) are propping them up?

It looks like they've divested everything else in broadcasting (apart from WSM) and are now an entertainment and hospitality company.

Gaylord owns the Grand Ole Opry and its former home, the Ryman auditorium as well as the Opryland Resort and Convention Center.

Could be that they're operating WSM purely as a promotional vehicle for those assets....much like Radio Disney is meant to promote the parks, movies, cable channel and actors turned music stars.

Not exactly, WSM and the Opry are a package deal. That is why Cumulus never owned WSM but were able to purchase WSM-FM and WWTN from Gaylord. Until someone is willing to purchase both, WSM will sit there and fade away.

Billing or not, WSM has really improved in the last year. They have added Americana music to the playlist including lots of new releases, including a new live weekly show, Music City Roots. They may not be making the money they could be but I wouldn't call this a total failure. If they would have changed formats in '02 or been sold to Cumulus, they probably would have ended up being mostly satellite fed.

Again, I don't think WSM is about success in a typical broadcast model. It's there to constantly promote the Opry, Opryland and the rest.

Let me repeat......Gaylord will only sell WSM and the Opry as a package deal! Cumulus at best had an agreement to manage and sell inventory on WSM (650) but purchased WSM-FM and WTN outright. Also, Opryland no longer exist and the only Gaylord property beyond the Opry is the hotel where WSM has a studio. The connection between WSM and the Opry is exploited on the air, but that goes only so far. WSM just sits there with little investment and allowed only necessary expenses. Unless it has changed WSM no longer has a full time engineer.

Everyone knows WSM and will sing the praises regarding its country heritage but few actually listen. It may have been mentioned in this thread (too lazy to look) but DavidEduardo has said WSM is billing 20k/month; great for a small market but a tragedy for a signal that size in a market like Nashville. The addition of Americana and Bluegrass is a great idea but on AM with little promotion its chance of success is slim.

I'm not talking about a sale.

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

My point is that Gaylord may not be using a traditional broadcast model to determine WSM's success. If they consider the station as a promotion expense for the Opry and affiliated holdings, then it may make sense to them...in the same way Radio Disney isn't about ad revenue, it's about promoting the Disney brand.

 

[davideduardo]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

 

[Icangelp]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

Easy now, we love the Grand Ole Opry here in the Midwest. I’d have been down in Nashville to catch the show this weekend, if my mobility scooter battery hadn’t gone on the fritz.

 

[ercjncpr]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

Or older than Little Jimmy Dickens?? Seriously though,I hope , that the Opry broadcasts last until November 2025 (100 years) but I know that by then they will be on the internet, where they should be now. Although I am a traditional radio lover, I do agree that it is time for WSM to go.

 

[Silkie]

Oddly enough you might have a failure with a great signal that is being eaten alive by that which only appears on the surface to be a failure with a weaker signal. I am sure most understand the concept of old family money being a success with a weaker or restrictive signal, going up against old family money being a failure with a great signal. The weaker signal will survive while the greater signal seems to have it all for a time and then fizzles out despite having advertising and other attributes going for it. The weaker signal station has something that the greater signal station does not have which makes the weaker station stronger.

Thanks for the forum even though Opryland became the topic rather than the subject title which seemed to suggest a more generic topic.

 

[catfishal]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

My understanding from Gaylord's last 10K is that they making money from their Opry/Entertainment division which includes WSM. The Opry/Entertainment division is only a small part of their gross revenue overall.

 

[catfishal]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

Or older than Little Jimmy Dickens?? Seriously though,I hope , that the Opry broadcasts last until November 2025 (100 years) but I know that by then they will be on the internet, where they should be now. Although I am a traditional radio lover, I do agree that it is time for WSM to go.

Even though they are not willing to sell WSM-AM without the whole Grand Ole Opry LLC right now, I could see them selling the AM 650 facility in another 10 years give or take and continuing the WSM programing in some form over the internet. Right now, they promote their webstream way more then other AM/FM stations do. Bill Cody and the other djs have been saying 650 AM and wsmonline.com alot over about the last year or so, before that they mostly would say 650 AM WSM and only mention the webstream or the website in occasionally .

 

[michael hagerty]

The question I was respomding to was how Gaylord could continue to make so little from WSM...whether there were sister stations propping them up.

Whatever the model or the reasoning for having WSM, Gaylord earnings are down, and in two of its biggest resort/meeting markets, Dallas and DC, there is new competition and price pressure. A rash of stock downgrades has pushed the shares down, and earnings projections are just awful. At some point, Gaylord may have to look at non-performing assets and cash them in. WSM is not worth much, given its horrible 25-54 ratings and billings.

And the Opry broadcasts have gotten older than one of Minnie Pearl's hats.

Or older than Little Jimmy Dickens?? Seriously though,I hope , that the Opry broadcasts last until November 2025 (100 years) but I know that by then they will be on the internet, where they should be now. Although I am a traditional radio lover, I do agree that it is time for WSM to go.

Even though they are not willing to sell WSM-AM without the whole Grand Ole Opry LLC right now, I could see them selling the AM 650 facility in another 10 years give or take and continuing the WSM programing in some form over the internet. Right now, they promote their webstream way more then other AM/FM stations do. Bill Cody and the other djs have been saying 650 AM and wsmonline.com alot over about the last year or so, before that they mostly would say 650 AM WSM and only mention the webstream or the website in occasionally .

What would a medium-market AM station be worth in 10 years, though? David?

 

[redneckriviera]

With the sad state of AM radio these days, it won't be long before WSM is completely worthless. Nothing against them specifically, it's just that they are on a band that has been slowly dying for the last 30+ years.

Tell that to 840/WHAS, just up I-65 in Louisville. Essentially an identical property in a nearly-identical market and still #1 (tied with co-owned WAMZ). WHAS played their cards right... WSM made mistake after mistake after mistake.

At this point it's been 25 years since WSM-AM was a player in Nashville. And in most instances that spells permanent doom.

But, you know, them thar 50 gallon non-D's @650 don't grow on trees. It's still a whale of a property (even though last time I was in town the signal sounded like pure shit).

This is one that could be resurrected. And, frankly, it would be a fun project...