Fairfield County: the New IBOC issues with the HD power increases

[Ozman]

I have not seen any difference yet But I am sure on Rt 7 Between Danbury and Norwalk I am sure I will. WCCC does fade in and out in Wilton CT, Radio 104 makes it to just about exit 9 usually on I-95.
I would now love to see COX get an HD 2 rock station for WCTZ/WFOX/star99 for fairfield county with this increase I doubt I will...
Thoughts?

 

[CTListener]

I have not seen any difference yet But I am sure on Rt 7 Between Danbury and Norwalk I am sure I will. WCCC does fade in and out in Wilton CT, Radio 104 makes it to just about exit 9 usually on I-95.
I would now love to see COX get an HD 2 rock station for WCTZ/WFOX/star99 for fairfield county with this increase I doubt I will...
Thoughts?

Considering that Cox has done nothing on HD2 at WPLR, I don't think anything's planned for WCTZ or anywhere else in the Connecticut cluster. WHCN's Forgotten Favorites was pretty good, but Clear Channel has replaced it with a voicetracked feed of totally burnt-to-a-crisp classic rock tracks in tight rotation. Not exactly the promise of HD fulfilled.

 

[BRNout]

I have not seen any difference yet But I am sure on Rt 7 Between Danbury and Norwalk I am sure I will. WCCC does fade in and out in Wilton CT, Radio 104 makes it to just about exit 9 usually on I-95.
I would now love to see COX get an HD 2 rock station for WCTZ/WFOX/star99 for fairfield county with this increase I doubt I will...
Thoughts?

That's because a power increase requires the installation of some new transmitting equipment in most cases. So, it could take a while to see effects from this decision. However, Fairfield county will be an excellent place to measure impacts from IBOC interference once the power increases take place. Given that there are so many first adjacent signals from NY City, CT and Long Island all crammed into the FM band there, it is inevitable that there will be a lot of issues in your area.

One thing I can assure you of is that - once the power increases do take place - the interference free zone will move twice as far out from a given station's transmitter site as it is now. For example, you'll have to go twice as far out from Manhattan to escape the sidebands from Lite 106.7 than you do now. That probably means no more WCCC for you in your area. In fact, there could easily be no more WCCC as far up as Bridgeport. Or at least it's signal will be chopping in and out that far north.

But the FCC and corporate broadcasters doesn't care about that. You have no right to listen to WCCC outside of their protected contour anyway! Or so they say.

 

[Tom_Ray]

Stations cannot start implementing the power increase until 30 days after the rules are published in the Federal Register - though there is a provision to apply for an STA for immediate operation at the -14 level. So this probably won't start, as a minimum, until around March 1. And you're right - many stations require a complete reconfiguration or new equipment. Some reconfigurations are easier than others.

>>"One thing I can assure you of is that - once the power increases do take place - the interference free zone will move twice as far out from a given station's transmitter site as it is now. For example, you'll have to go twice as far out from Manhattan to escape the sidebands from Lite 106.7 than you do now. That probably means no more WCCC for you in your area. In fact, there could easily be no more WCCC as far up as Bridgeport. Or at least it's signal will be chopping in and out that far north."<<

What is your proof of this? The power increase has not been implemented, and in testing, except in some extreme cases, there have been no significant interference issues. We won't know unless we get the show on the road here - that is why the Commission has put interference mitigation in the regulations.

>>"But the FCC and corporate broadcasters doesn't care about that. You have no right to listen to WCCC outside of their protected contour anyway! Or so they say."<<

Time you people got off this bandwagon. No one has ever made this statement that I know of. The protected contour is what it is - that is the legal extent of coverage of a given station, and any coverage beyond this contour is gravy for the station - and not guaranteed. That does not mean another station or service cannot go on the air just outside of this contour. You are correct that putting another station on either first adjacent or on channel would cause problems for listeners of this station outside the protected contour. That being said, the protected contour is there for several reasons, one of which is to maintain spacing between transmitter sites. If a station or service (and IBOC is a service) meets the criteria for "fitting in", if you will, then the new entity has the right to be granted a license and commence broadcasting.

The IBOC ship has sailed. Like it, hate it or indifferent, it won't be coming back to port. Time to get used to it.

Tom Ray
VP/Corporate Director of Engineering
Buckley Broadcasting/WOR Radio
NYC

 

[MarcB]

Tom, you the man. Any chance of putting WDRC 1360 on WDRC-FM's HD 3 Channel? That might actually cause me to go out and buy an HD Radio. - It would be nice to listen to Dr. Joy Browne without interference from a radio near the computer.

 

[BRNout]

Yeah, Tom's the man with an answer so arrogant that it's hardly worth replying to. You know the truth. On one hand, you question my statement - on the other you dismiss it with regard to the 'protected contour,' basically because you are smart enough to know how it will go. Where's the proof? Wait and see.

Tom, you the man. Any chance of putting WDRC 1360 on WDRC-FM's HD 3 Channel? That might actually cause me to go out and buy an HD Radio. - It would be nice to listen to Dr. Joy Browne without interference from a radio near the computer.

And Marc, you complain so very much on every board about every little thing that interferes with your radio listening and TV viewing - just wait and see what happens when every IBOC-equipped Hartford market FM cranks up their jet engines. No more first adjacent dx for you.

 

[GlennO]

Yeah, Tom's the man with an answer so arrogant that it's hardly worth replying to. You know the truth. On one hand, you question my statement - on the other you dismiss it with regard to the 'protected contour,' basically because you are smart enough to know how it will go. Where's the proof? Wait and see.

Tom gave you an honest, informed answer. He didn't have to respond at all. Many people in the business don't, although they always read this and other boards. Time will tell how it turns out. You may disagree, but I think it's a positive when we encourage radio pros - and their numbers are dwindling - to contribute to a public forum.

 

[bigtom101]

Yeah, Tom's the man with an answer so arrogant that it's hardly worth replying to. You know the truth. On one hand, you question my statement - on the other you dismiss it with regard to the 'protected contour,' basically because you are smart enough to know how it will go. Where's the proof? Wait and see.

Tom was just explaining things from a "just the facts mam" point of view. And a pretty well informed one as well - the gentlemen has been working in radio and engineering since before I was born, and has authored one of the few books about how to implement IBOC and how to make sure it is done right. I highly doubt he was being arrogant - and if he was, he certainly has a right to be given his knowledge and experience. I suggest to anyone who has an interest in engineering to listen to "This Week In Radio Tech," a podcast that is entertaining and has let me know about cool tech tips & tools. As well as kick ass war stories, like the "22kv piece of wood". Tom Ray, along with 3 other regulars, make up the show.

The marketplace will eventually decide. Hell, given how long it took FM to overtake AM, this could be a long time.

 

[CTListener]

Yeah, Tom's the man with an answer so arrogant that it's hardly worth replying to. You know the truth. On one hand, you question my statement - on the other you dismiss it with regard to the 'protected contour,' basically because you are smart enough to know how it will go. Where's the proof? Wait and see.

Tom was just explaining things from a "just the facts mam" point of view. And a pretty well informed one as well - the gentlemen has been working in radio and engineering since before I was born, and has authored one of the few books about how to implement IBOC and how to make sure it is done right. I highly doubt he was being arrogant - and if he was, he certainly has a right to be given his knowledge and experience. I suggest to anyone who has an interest in engineering to listen to "This Week In Radio Tech," a podcast that is entertaining and has let me know about cool tech tips & tools. As well as kick ass war stories, like the "22kv piece of wood". Tom Ray, along with 3 other regulars, make up the show.

The marketplace will eventually decide. Hell, given how long it took FM to overtake AM, this could be a long time.

As a listener, I'd like to have the opportunity to hear all the stations I can, including first-adjacents when possible. However, as an observer of the radio scene who realizes just how tough the economy has been on the medium, I don't blame the stations one bit for implementing IBOC, which not only (at least potentially) could bring additional listeners and advertisers to the implementing stations and which, by virtue of its inherent splatter, limits opportunity to hear first-adjacent, out-of-market stations within the protected countour. DXing, on any frequency range, has no legal protections. You listen to what you are technically capable of listening to, period.

 

[Ozman]

I love to hear from any engineers out there what the official start up date is... Route 7 and 8 and I-95 in Westport, Fairfield, Bridgeport is going to a big battle zone. I bet in Stratford a lot more noise as for Bridgeport WEBE already throws out a lot of noise in this area but WMRQ, WWYZ, and WZMX make it through this area and are going to big ones to focus on. WKCI comes down to greenwich I don't know what that will do against WCBS FM. With the power increase will Marlin fire up the IBOC again? maybe JR can chime in on that thanks



OZ
WXC.org
Fridays 4-7

 

[CTListener]

With the power increase will Marlin fire up the IBOC again?

Didn't they turn it off to save money? How would turning it back on at higher power cost less than before?

 

[BRNout]

Yeah, Tom's the man with an answer so arrogant that it's hardly worth replying to. You know the truth. On one hand, you question my statement - on the other you dismiss it with regard to the 'protected contour,' basically because you are smart enough to know how it will go. Where's the proof? Wait and see.

Tom was just explaining things from a "just the facts mam" point of view. And a pretty well informed one as well - the gentlemen has been working in radio and engineering since before I was born, and has authored one of the few books about how to implement IBOC and how to make sure it is done right. I highly doubt he was being arrogant - and if he was, he certainly has a right to be given his knowledge and experience. I suggest to anyone who has an interest in engineering to listen to "This Week In Radio Tech," a podcast that is entertaining and has let me know about cool tech tips & tools. As well as kick ass war stories, like the "22kv piece of wood". Tom Ray, along with 3 other regulars, make up the show.

The marketplace will eventually decide. Hell, given how long it took FM to overtake AM, this could be a long time.

La, la, la.....

Yeah, I know who Tom is and respect his work - but respectfully disagree with the tone and manner of his missive. He's also famously one of the most outspoken IBOC boosters in the business, so he has his professional agenda in mind when involving himself in this thread. You all can bow at the waist, but I'll save it for another day.

Tom was dismissive of my comment and guess what? My comment, which was specifically directed toward Jamie's question, is still correct. If you all recall, the original question posed here was about what happens to reception of WCCC in Fairfield County once IBOC signals are cranked up to their full potential. In this case, the signal in question is WLTW - which Clear Channel is likely to crank up by -14dBc (which they likely will be permitted to do). Tom didn't answer that one, I did - WCCC will be gone at Jamie's house (which is in southern Fairfield Co., IIRC). Now, he can say as often as he likes that I have no proof of that - but we'll see what happens when it happens. The zone where 106.7's HD interference will dominate 106.9 will increase in radius by about a third - enough to engulf Greenwich and Stamford and to cut in and out well north and east of there. Furthermore, as Jamie lives well outside the protected contour of WCCC, there will be no recourse for him once the hissing starts. I haven't even brought up WXPK 107.1 because I don't know whether they are in HD or not.

There will be tons of conflicts once (and if) everyone who has an IBOC exciter in the Hartford, New Haven, SW CT, LI and NYC markets cranks up the power. That's inevitable because of how short-spaced the band is in the region. And because atmospheric conditions frequently don't cooperate with FCC maps. Basically, the FCC listens to the pitch from the money guys and ignores the engineering issues - just as they did with AM. It'll be a mess.