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Fairness doctrine

???
I recently read, not sure where, that if the Democrats take the House and Senate they will re-instate the Fairness Doctrine that was eliminated during the Reagan administration and opened up the airwaves for the proliferation of talk radio. From the way it read, if the Democrats put it back in-place, it will damage talk radio as we know it. Did anyone else see this article and, if so, where? I think it might have been a newspaper article that was posted on the Internet.
 
radioman1380 said:
???
I recently read, not sure where, that if the Democrats take the House and Senate they will re-instate the Fairness Doctrine that was eliminated during the Reagan administration and opened up the airwaves for the proliferation of talk radio. From the way it read, if the Democrats put it back in-place, it will damage talk radio as we know it. Did anyone else see this article and, if so, where? I think it might have been a newspaper article that was posted on the Internet.

Yes, that's true. When the Dems take over Congress next week, their first order of business will be to cut a deal with President Bush. The deal would allow Bush to prosecute the war in Iraq without question until his term is completed in January, 2009. In exchange, Bush will give Congress control of the FCC. The Dems will appoint Al Gore as the new FCC Chairman and his first move will be to re-enact the Fairness Doctrine. This will require that all talk stations will have to provide equal time for all political talk presented. That means stations carrying Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly etc will have to find equal time for liberal talkers. The good news for conservatives is that stations carrying lefties like Franken, Miller, Rhodes, Schultz etc. will have to offer equal time for right wingers. I know you are probably thinking how are they going to do that. Well, the Dems are going to make another deal with Bush. Bush will be allowed to keep all tax cuts in place in exchange for a new law that extends a broadcast day from 24 to 48 hours.
 
barooosk said:
radioman1380 said:
???
I recently read, not sure where, that if the Democrats take the House and Senate they will re-instate the Fairness Doctrine that was eliminated during the Reagan administration and opened up the airwaves for the proliferation of talk radio. From the way it read, if the Democrats put it back in-place, it will damage talk radio as we know it. Did anyone else see this article and, if so, where? I think it might have been a newspaper article that was posted on the Internet.

Yes, that's true. When the Dems take over Congress next week, their first order of business will be to cut a deal with President Bush. The deal would allow Bush to prosecute the war in Iraq without question until his term is completed in January, 2009. In exchange, Bush will give Congress control of the FCC. The Dems will appoint Al Gore as the new FCC Chairman and his first move will be to re-enact the Fairness Doctrine. This will require that all talk stations will have to provide equal time for all political talk presented. That means stations carrying Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly etc will have to find equal time for liberal talkers. The good news for conservatives is that stations carrying lefties like Franken, Miller, Rhodes, Schultz etc. will have to offer equal time for right wingers. I know you are probably thinking how are they going to do that. Well, the Dems are going to make another deal with Bush. Bush will be allowed to keep all tax cuts in place in exchange for a new law that extends a broadcast day from 24 to 48 hours.

wow. if that's what passes for humor or sarcasm in the world of 'Baroosk', we can all see how he finds Franken's show 'the height of hilarity' ::)

They wont do anything until 2007, then you will hear about the FD. There will be a big fight over this, but in the end, the corporate interests will win out. They will strike a deal where broadcasters wont have to air 'equal time' for political commentary, but instead will have to air a prerecorded liner at the beginning of the show stating 'the opinions of the host.....' etc.

The lefties will slink away but all of the hue and cry will be a powerful ad tool for the struggling liberal talk programs out there. The most entertaining and revenue producing will win out. AAR will go the way of the XFL.
 
If there is any attempt to revive the so-called "Fairness Doctrine", the various little "third" parties will all come out of the woodwork and demand that all political points of view get equal time, not just the two major parties. They'll petition the courts to demand that if there is an hour given to someone who supports the GOP, and another hour to someone who supports the Democrat Party for "fairness", then there will also have to be an hour for someone who supports the Libertarian Party, and another for someone who supports the Green Party, and another hour for someone who supports the Reform Party, and additional hours for all the new "third" parties that will spring up in order to cash in on all the radio time that has to be offered.

The result will be that broadcasters will agree in an out-of-court settlement to drop all political discussion programming in exchange for relaxation on all the rules that drove Howard Stern to satelite radio. In exchange for no more political talk, the S word, the P word, and even the F word will no longer cost broadcasters fines or risk their licenses. Radio-info will shut down the News-Talk forum, but Hot Talk will pick up the slack.
 
I just read your post, and I'm, really trying to understand what you are saying. I am wondering if your incoherent post has something to do with a medication problem, but I'll try to reply.

evnlee said:
They wont do anything until 2007

that's two months away

then you will hear about the FD. There will be a big fight over this, but in the end, the corporate interests will win out. They will strike a deal where broadcasters wont have to air 'equal time' for political commentary, but instead will have to air a prerecorded liner at the beginning of the show stating 'the opinions of the host.....' etc.

So it sounds like your saying the FD is no big deal for talk radio?

The lefties will slink away but all of the hue and cry will be a powerful ad tool for the struggling liberal talk programs out there. The most entertaining and revenue producing will win out. AAR will go the way of the XFL.

Why will the lefties slink away. Seems like the return of the FD will be a good thing for the lefties?

What does AAR's possible demise have to do with this?

I'm confused. (Am I setting myself up for a medication comment?)
 
"Seems like the return of the FD will be a good thing for the lefties?"

It won't be. It will mean that all stations will have to give equal time to talkers from the opposite side of the political spectrum. If a company owns two stations in a market, putting conservatives on one and liberals on the other won't satisfy the FCC. Both stations will have to have a "balanced" schedule, with not only equal amounts of time given to both sides of the political spectrum, but equal quality of time. They can't put the high rated shows on during peak hours, and the low rated ones in off-hours. If the Conservatives get an hour of PM drive time, then they'll have to give the Liberals an hour of PM drive time. And, if they also have to give Progressives equal time, then there will be three different side splitting all broadcast time.

"What does AAR's possible demise have to do with this?"

The demise of AAR demonstrates the dearth of liberal talk show hosts capable of holding their own against the current crop of conservative hosts. If the Fairness Doctrine comes back, instead of a station being able to air profitable conservative talk shows all day and all night, they'll have to run unprofitable liberal and possibly unprofitable progressive hosts as will on an equal basis. Instead of making money with conservative hosts 24 hours a day, they'll make money with conservatives for eight hours, then lose money on liberals for eight hours, and then lose more money with progressives for another eight hours.

And that will simply force broadcasters to switch to a totally different format where they can make money all the time, knocking the conservative, and the liberal, and the progressive hosts all off the air and over to satellite.

So, returning the Fairness Doctrine might seem like a victory for the lefties, in that it would force broadcasters to give them equal time if they wanted to stay in the news talk business. But, since the actual result would be to force most broadcasters out of the news talk business, it would result in even less liberal talk on the air, not more.

And that doesn't even begin to bring up how they'd deal with hosts like Glenn Beck or Michael Savage. The FCC doesn't equate "fairness" with covering a point on the political spectrum. They take it down to individual issues and support of political parties. Maybe an Al Franken would balance a Rush Limbaugh. But how do you "balance" someone who supports some campaign platform planks of one major party and other planks from the other major party? How do you "balance" someone who is against both parties at the same time?
 
I can understand why some would prefer to leave the airwaves as they are because if the fairness doctrine is enacted, voices other than those currently heard might be included in public debate and we wouldn't want that. We certainly do not want the airwaves to be cluttered with the thoughts of people with whom we disagree. Allowing other people to debate issues on the air is probably unconstitutional anyway. If, for example, Rush wants to vilify someone on the air, he should be allowed to do so without having to provide time to the other side.
 
barooosk said:
I just read your post, and I'm, really trying to understand what you are saying. I am wondering if your incoherent post has something to do with a medication problem, but I'll try to reply.

evnlee said:
They wont do anything until 2007

that's two months away

then you will hear about the FD. There will be a big fight over this, but in the end, the corporate interests will win out. They will strike a deal where broadcasters wont have to air 'equal time' for political commentary, but instead will have to air a prerecorded liner at the beginning of the show stating 'the opinions of the host.....' etc.

So it sounds like your saying the FD is no big deal for talk radio?

The lefties will slink away but all of the hue and cry will be a powerful ad tool for the struggling liberal talk programs out there. The most entertaining and revenue producing will win out. AAR will go the way of the XFL.

Why will the lefties slink away. Seems like the return of the FD will be a good thing for the lefties?

What does AAR's possible demise have to do with this?

I'm confused. (Am I setting myself up for a medication comment?)

The legislative session wont begin until late January, and with newcomers, any real chance of getting a bill like that introduced and passed would be early fall.

I think RR brings up some good points. How is Cox ( who owns self proclaimed libertarian talker Boortz ) going to argue for 'equal time'? They are going to say that his program is not ad time for the GOP. They are going to have hours of tape of him spouting pro-choice,pro-gay marriage messages, and tell the FCC that he doesn't fit the description of a 'Limbaugh'.

Then, thier lobbyist are going to pay to have the bill defeated.

If you've been listening, some on the right have been preparing for this for quite a while. While there will always be a 'Hannity', your going to have a 'Beck' and a 'Savage' saying things like 'this isn't about left and right, it's about right and wrong', or BOR claiming ' I'm a registered independant'. There is a good reason for this. ;)
 
Cat,

Please read Radio_Realist's reply #5 again. It's a very good explanation of how the Fairness Doctrine will affect commercial radio. We can talk about the exchange of ideas on talk radio all day long, but it's commercial radio...it's a way for the station ownership to make money. The scenario Radio_Realist described is very possible. Instead of having an exchange of points of view the station will probably opt for another money-making format that won't get them in a hassle with the FCC.

LeChat said:
I can understand why some would prefer to leave the airwaves as they are because if the fairness doctrine is enacted, voices other than those currently heard might be included in public debate and we wouldn't want that. We certainly do not want the airwaves to be cluttered with the thoughts of people with whom we disagree. Allowing other people to debate issues on the air is probably unconstitutional anyway. If, for example, Rush wants to vilify someone on the air, he should be allowed to do so without having to provide time to the other side.
 
The fairness doctrine will make Broadcasters act more responsively. They will need to determine whether on-the-air comments by employees will make the Briadcasters provide time for opposing views.

Can you imagine where a Broadcaster would actually do that? Salem Broadcasting? AAR? To broadcast a program where a position is posed and the opposite side also presented so the listener has an opportunity to deceide what makes sense? How goofy is that?
 
In a perfect world you might be right. However, programming in the world of commercial radio is business-based. Salem and AAR are clear about their points of view on various issues but what matters most to the ownership of most radio stations is, will this format make money. The stations that carry Rush Limbaugh's program don't do it to balance the stuff that people hear and see all day on the major networks but to make money with the high ratings that the program gets. If a left-wing/liberal radio host with genuine radio talent can be found, those points of view will receive airtime because high ratings will make it profitable to carry, not because it's a way to counter the views expressed by conservatives.

b344077 said:
The fairness doctrine will make Broadcasters act more responsively. They will need to determine whether on-the-air comments by employees will make the Briadcasters provide time for opposing views.

Can you imagine where a Broadcaster would actually do that? Salem Broadcasting? AAR? To broadcast a program where a position is posed and the opposite side also presented so the listener has an opportunity to deceide what makes sense? How goofy is that?
 
How goofy is that?

As goofy as expecting a broadcaster who owns a music format station to start playing polkas alongside rock so that "all aspects of music" get an equal airing, and because Central Europeans need to have their musical voice heard the same as everyone else.

Considering that most news-talk stations are semi-automated operations that simply plug in syndicated programming all day, anything that means they'll have to start paying attention to what is broadcast and shopping around for people to air alternate points of view will mean an instant switch back to music programming.

And then no one will hear any political opinions, other than the ones the major network newcasters insert in between the lines during newscasts.
 
I'm betting on a return to The Fairness Doctrine:

I have already prepared a set of 52 "Growing Your Garden" programs which will become very hot properties.

I am buying stock in print newspapers because that's where people will have to go to get any discussion of major issues.

Also a few shares of paper manufacturers in anticipation of a return of the days of The Political Broadside! (kiddies, look THAT up)

Bring It ON!!!!!!
 
As a legal point, the Fairness Doctrine was UPHELD against a First Amendment challenge in Red Lion in 1969.

If you think a return of the Fairness Doctrine--which was only an FCC regulation, never a statute--doesnot mean that other formats can be regulated similarly, I'd re-read the Red Lion decision.

http://www.epic.org/free_speech/red_lion.html

As I have stated before, if the Fairness Doctrine is legal, there's nothing that says the FCC can't mandate formats. They used to do so, 35 years ago, right about the time of Red Lion, to prevent a format from leaving the air.

Get ready, folks, for all your oldies stations and ethnics to populate the good FM signals yet again.

I'm not really sure it's such a bad thing, really.
 
The bad news is that if the Democrats take over Congress there is a strong liklihood that some version of the Fairness Doctrine will be re-enacted.

The good news is that you still have five day left to campaign for election of Republicans.
 
barooosk said:
The bad news is that if the Democrats take over Congress there is a strong liklihood that some version of the Fairness Doctrine will be re-enacted.


This, of course, will stifle all political discussion other than in newspapers. But remember, that's "all", spelled A-L-L. Not so much because of any real effect of such a tragedy. Rather, because station ownership will be so fearful of legal action based on reality or political opportunism. Lawsuits, even those without merit, are expensive.

It's not all bad, though. If The Democrats win hands-down there will be countless thousands of lawyers left without employment. A new "Fairness Doctrine" could revitalize the profession and keep them off the welfare rolls. Paying taxes instead of consuming taxes.

Oh....not only those political talk shows will vanish. Also any shows having to do with cars since, to run one, would require equal time for algore and the merchants of global warming propaganda.
 
Yep, as a former broadcaster who managed more than one station, its all about the money. Period. It's a business. But, even in the "dark days" of the fairness doctrine, controversial talk shows were heard and there were many. The only differential was that broadcasters had to consider the total audience and not just pander to whatever reactionary group held sway.

If the Fairness Doctrine comes back, it may improve what we hear. The Rush Hour may sound a bit differently but it will still be the Rush hour. (I still think he's a closest liberal who does his gig very well.)
 
But, even in the "dark days" of the fairness doctrine, controversial talk shows were heard and there were many.

There were some, but not nearly as many as there are today, and not with nearly the same level of clearances.

The only differential was that broadcasters had to consider the total audience and not just pander to whatever reactionary group held sway.

That's a loaded statement, and grossly inaccurate. Broadcaster no more "pander" to reactionaries when they run conservative talk shows than they "pander" to rednecks when they broadcast country music. Almost all radio broadcasting in the 21st century is targeted to a specific, narrow audience. News/talk stations simply reflect the same sort of niche marketing that all of music format stations also engage in.

You'll hear spoken word format radio stations attempt to be all things to all people at about the same time that you start hearing music format stations start playing super variety Top-40 radio again, with every genre of music mixed together to appeal to everyone. In other words, never.

If the Fairness Doctrine comes back, it may improve what we hear.

If you regard hearing music instead of political talk an improvement, then you are correct. A return of the Fairness Doctrine will effectively kill almost all spoken word radio programming, with the possible exception of sports talk.

Forget about how things used to be with the Fairness Doctrine in the olden days. If the Fairness Doctrine comes back in 2007, there are more political action groups out there than you can shake a stick at that will be falling all over themselves filing lawsuits about real and imagined infractions. The handful of controversial talk show hosts from back in the days of the old Fairness Doctrine survived mostly because there were few complaints to the FCC about them, and the FCC wasn't all that proactive in enforcing the Doctrine. They tended to only investigate and take action if they received complaints.

Nowadays, we'll see well orchestrated complaint campaigns against all political talk shows. That will be a situation very different from the way things were two decades ago. AKLes got it spot-on correct when he said, "Rather, because station ownership will be so fearful of legal action based on reality or political opportunism. Lawsuits, even those without merit, are expensive."

However, AKLes was wrong when he said "This, of course, will stifle all political discussion other than in newspapers." He's wrong because there is no real political discussion in newspapers, and there hasn't been any real discussion in newspapers since Gutenberg invented movable type. Newspapers today follow the slogan, "All the news that fits, we print". If you want political discussion, as in the exchange of political ideas, the only source after a return of the Fairness Doctrine will be the only source that exists today -- the Internet.

There is no "discussion" of politics on news/talk radio today. There is plenty of biased pontificating and reporting on all sides of the political spectrum, but there is no significant amount of back-and-forth discussion. Rush holds forth on his conservative opinions and proclaims them to conservatives who already agree with him anyway, while Franken holds forth on his liberal opinions and proclaims them to liberals who already agree with him anyway. Neither of them (nor any other news/talk hosts) feature any sort of "discussion", unless you count accepting calls from people who disagree just so the host can shoot down their arguments and make himself sound good in the process.
 
Radio_Realist said:
But, even in the "dark days" of the fairness doctrine, controversial talk shows were heard and there were many.

There were some, but not nearly as many as there are today, and not with nearly the same level of clearances.

The only differential was that broadcasters had to consider the total audience and not just pander to whatever reactionary group held sway.

That's a loaded statement, and grossly inaccurate. Broadcaster no more "pander" to reactionaries when they run conservative talk shows than they "pander" to rednecks when they broadcast country music. Almost all radio broadcasting in the 21st century is targeted to a specific, narrow audience. News/talk stations simply reflect the same sort of niche marketing that all of music format stations also engage in.

You'll hear spoken word format radio stations attempt to be all things to all people at about the same time that you start hearing music format stations start playing super variety Top-40 radio again, with every genre of music mixed together to appeal to everyone. In other words, never.

If the Fairness Doctrine comes back, it may improve what we hear.

If you regard hearing music instead of political talk an improvement, then you are correct. A return of the Fairness Doctrine will effectively kill almost all spoken word radio programming, with the possible exception of sports talk.

Forget about how things used to be with the Fairness Doctrine in the olden days. If the Fairness Doctrine comes back in 2007, there are more political action groups out there than you can shake a stick at that will be falling all over themselves filing lawsuits about real and imagined infractions. The handful of controversial talk show hosts from back in the days of the old Fairness Doctrine survived mostly because there were few complaints to the FCC about them, and the FCC wasn't all that proactive in enforcing the Doctrine. They tended to only investigate and take action if they received complaints.

Nowadays, we'll see well orchestrated complaint campaigns against all political talk shows. That will be a situation very different from the way things were two decades ago. AKLes got it spot-on correct when he said, "Rather, because station ownership will be so fearful of legal action based on reality or political opportunism. Lawsuits, even those without merit, are expensive."

However, AKLes was wrong when he said "This, of course, will stifle all political discussion other than in newspapers." He's wrong because there is no real political discussion in newspapers, and there hasn't been any real discussion in newspapers since Gutenberg invented movable type. Newspapers today follow the slogan, "All the news that fits, we print". If you want political discussion, as in the exchange of political ideas, the only source after a return of the Fairness Doctrine will be the only source that exists today -- the Internet.

There is no "discussion" of politics on news/talk radio today. There is plenty of biased pontificating and reporting on all sides of the political spectrum, but there is no significant amount of back-and-forth discussion. Rush holds forth on his conservative opinions and proclaims them to conservatives who already agree with him anyway, while Franken holds forth on his liberal opinions and proclaims them to liberals who already agree with him anyway. Neither of them (nor any other news/talk hosts) feature any sort of "discussion", unless you count accepting calls from people who disagree just so the host can shoot down their arguments and make himself sound good in the process.

another stellar post! Well put!
 
evnlee said:
Radio_Realist said:
But, even in the "dark days" of the fairness doctrine, controversial talk shows were heard and there were many.

There were some, but not nearly as many as there are today, and not with nearly the same level of clearances.

The only differential was that broadcasters had to consider the total audience and not just pander to whatever reactionary group held sway.

That's a loaded statement, and grossly inaccurate. Broadcaster no more "pander" to reactionaries when they run conservative talk shows than they "pander" to rednecks when they broadcast country music. Almost all radio broadcasting in the 21st century is targeted to a specific, narrow audience. News/talk stations simply reflect the same sort of niche marketing that all of music format stations also engage in.

You'll hear spoken word format radio stations attempt to be all things to all people at about the same time that you start hearing music format stations start playing super variety Top-40 radio again, with every genre of music mixed together to appeal to everyone. In other words, never.

If the Fairness Doctrine comes back, it may improve what we hear.

If you regard hearing music instead of political talk an improvement, then you are correct. A return of the Fairness Doctrine will effectively kill almost all spoken word radio programming, with the possible exception of sports talk.

Forget about how things used to be with the Fairness Doctrine in the olden days. If the Fairness Doctrine comes back in 2007, there are more political action groups out there than you can shake a stick at that will be falling all over themselves filing lawsuits about real and imagined infractions. The handful of controversial talk show hosts from back in the days of the old Fairness Doctrine survived mostly because there were few complaints to the FCC about them, and the FCC wasn't all that proactive in enforcing the Doctrine. They tended to only investigate and take action if they received complaints.

Nowadays, we'll see well orchestrated complaint campaigns against all political talk shows. That will be a situation very different from the way things were two decades ago. AKLes got it spot-on correct when he said, "Rather, because station ownership will be so fearful of legal action based on reality or political opportunism. Lawsuits, even those without merit, are expensive."

However, AKLes was wrong when he said "This, of course, will stifle all political discussion other than in newspapers." He's wrong because there is no real political discussion in newspapers, and there hasn't been any real discussion in newspapers since Gutenberg invented movable type. Newspapers today follow the slogan, "All the news that fits, we print". If you want political discussion, as in the exchange of political ideas, the only source after a return of the Fairness Doctrine will be the only source that exists today -- the Internet.

There is no "discussion" of politics on news/talk radio today. There is plenty of biased pontificating and reporting on all sides of the political spectrum, but there is no significant amount of back-and-forth discussion. Rush holds forth on his conservative opinions and proclaims them to conservatives who already agree with him anyway, while Franken holds forth on his liberal opinions and proclaims them to liberals who already agree with him anyway. Neither of them (nor any other news/talk hosts) feature any sort of "discussion", unless you count accepting calls from people who disagree just so the host can shoot down their arguments and make himself sound good in the process.

another stellar post! Well put!

After the 10th time that envlee offered us a post praising a post of Radio Realist I am starting to think that they are the same person or at least that they share a special relationship.
 
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