Fall Nielsen Ratings

[Rob Piotrowski]

We want the person who likes to live in the past.

That's an interesting statement as practically every other successful older-music station strives to be contemporary in presentation. But Buffalo is different, and maybe the opposite thinking will work. I hope it does.
And I hope Buddy doesn't continue to obsess over the 4.0 prediction - it's the amount of money in your pocket that's the real measure of success.

 

[tbolt909]

Obviously, many people aren't interested in stale old jokes and schtick from "Buffalo Legends​". Since WECK is targeting 60 and over listeners, Nielsen ratings won't help them anyway. Buddy is right to focus on clients who want that demo and can successfully serve that niche.

Not all Fifty something people are the same. They have diverse musical tastes. They are not locked into nostalgia.
WJYE chose to abandon its established audience when it flipped to MIX. Entercom lost a passionate Rock audience when they dropped The Lake. The replacement formats in those 2 cases have badly underperformed (see ratings).
It's a risk when you blow off an established listener base. They have unlimited other options. The younger demos that they hoped would replace them was a pipe dream...

 

[Buddy Shula]

Not sure what you mean by "obviously, people aren't interested...." Our feedback at WECK has been tremendous in regards to the personalities. If you are referring to ratings, WECK did not have a great book, like many others did not. However, that's 12 weeks. The diaries had a different placement in terms of geography. WECK on a 2 book average has almost the share that WBUF and WMSX has, and they are 50K watt stations. In the summer WECK had a 2.6. In the Fall WECK had a 1.4 . WECK is 1K AM. I would say that is pretty damn good to have a total share that can rival 2 powerhouse FM's that have Wall Street money. The reality, is that WECK has a very high position in the mature audience community. When our new FM frequency is up, the cume will go up as well. Our goal at WECK is to super-serve the older audience. That's it.

Obviously, many people aren't interested in stale old jokes and schtick from "Buffalo Legends​". Since WECK is targeting 60 and over listeners, Nielsen ratings won't help them anyway. Buddy is right to focus on clients who want that demo and can successfully serve that niche.

Not all Fifty something people are the same. They have diverse musical tastes. They are not locked into nostalgia.
WJYE chose to abandon its established audience when it flipped to MIX. Entercom lost a passionate Rock audience when they dropped The Lake. The replacement formats in those 2 cases have badly underperformed (see ratings).
It's a risk when you blow off an established listener base. They have unlimited other options. The younger demos that they hoped would replace them was a pipe dream...

 

[four4rock]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm nothing more than a average-Joe-Listener guy, I don't really know demo from cume from share blah blah blah stuff.

If I may ask, though, who is WECK's most direct competition for the early (and a bit pre-) baby boomer listeners (b. 1943 - 1958)?

In full disclosure, I am most "loyal" to WYRK. Here's why... I like the (so-called classic rock) music of the 1970's and earliest 1980's. But I don't want to hear the same stuff over-and-over (think 97Rock) for the last 40 years - and probably the next 40 years. I find so-called new/modern country very similar (musically) to the old stuff I mentioned... but it is new.

Thanks in advance. BTW, I'm stuck at my desk all day today. I think I'll give WECK a whirl. Hopefully, it doesn't compel me to go buy Discreet Disposable Incontinence Products. LOL.

 

[yugoidar]

Thank you. There are some people on this board who are just waiting for me to not succeed. I love it.

Buddy, that may be true. But there are also some people here who want to see you succeed and are expressing their feelings about what they're hearing on WECK. As a result, they're making suggestions they feel would improve the station and help you get to the 4 share that you're shooting for.

Stop feeling like you're under attack! Take those suggestions as ideas to consider and act accordingly. Maybe some of those suggestions have merit.

 

[ckg279]

FFR: Based on my listening to WECK, the vast majority of the advertisers are local. AND, though I'm SLIGHTLY outside the demo Buddy mentioned, I listen to them a decent amount. (And I want him to succeed as well.) Then again, I ALSO listen to WEDG despite being WAY outside that demo.

Also: I agree...moving 96.1 from AC to whatever the HELL you call it basically nuked its audience and it still hasn't recovered. Townsquare should admit they fouled up and switch it back to AC.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

That's an interesting statement as practically every other successful older-music station strives to be contemporary in presentation. But Buffalo is different, and maybe the opposite thinking will work.

Not intending to be troublesome, I hope the station is successful. But who exactly listens to this type of station or format? My older brothers are in their mid to upper 60s. They listen to classic rock and 80s offered by 97 Rock, Jack and Q-107. 97 plays many songs that are 30 to 45 years old, but remains firmly rooted in today. On the other end of the spectrum, my youngest aunt who's in her 70s and used to listen to 1230, but more often than not has 104 on in the car. Auntie still drives and travels well. She also goes to the JCC three days a week to swim, walk, work out and laugh with her yenta friends. WECK seems to be neither fish nor fowl as to the tastes of either my older brothers or my hippie (and very healthy) aunt.

 

[Buddy Shula]

Not intending to be troublesome, I hope the station is successful. But who exactly listens to this type of station or format? My older brothers are in their mid to upper 60s. They listen to classic rock and 80s offered by 97 Rock, Jack and Q-107. 97 plays many songs that are 30 to 45 years old, but remains firmly rooted in today. On the other end of the spectrum, my youngest aunt who's in her 70s and used to listen to 1230, but more often than not has 104 on in the car. Auntie still drives and travels well. She also goes to the JCC three days a week to swim, walk, work out and laugh with her yenta friends. WECK seems to be neither fish nor fowl as to the tastes of either my older brothers or my hippie (and very healthy) aunt.

Rusty, WECK is a niche. WHTT plays very few songs that WECK does. You will find a massive array of music on WECK you simply cannot get anywhere on terrestrial radio, from the 70's and earlier. The goal is fill a void, which we are doing. Not every person over 55 is going to listen. That goes with any station. We serve our 55 plus demo very well. That is my goal. Do not listen to the myth that 25-54 is the money demo. I can undeniably tell you that the niche and listeners we are targeting is the demo we want for revenue. Nationally, the 25-54 radio demo is getting crushed because buyers no longer feel that radio is a good medium to reach younger. When 100.5 hits the air in April, hitting the North Towns hard, a whole new cume will be able to listen to our niche product on FM. I love the direction we are going. It is not my goal to compete against Wall St companies. It is my goal to super-serve the 55 plus demo in Buffalo. The process of getting better and receiving more brand recognition is just beginning. It is a process. But it is in a direction I am very happy with. I like filling the senior void.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

WECK provides them with news, information, and soft music, much like an old school Classical or Easy Listening station would have. Possibly listeners who liked WBFO's jazz programs before they were dropped a few years back.

I don't know how many people that actually is in Buffalo, but apparently it is a notable minority given WECK's rating.

 

[Buddy Shula]

WECK provides them with news, information, and soft music, much like an old school Classical or Easy Listening station would have. Possibly listeners who liked WBFO's jazz programs before they were dropped a few years back.

I don't know how many people that actually is in Buffalo, but apparently it is a notable minority given WECK's rating.

I would not say it is a minority if you knew the 55 plus numbers WECK has, in relation to WHTT and WBEN.

 

[Element9]

Arguably, any format with less than a two share Persons 12+ in this market might as well be a niche format. I wonder how WECK would perform if it was on a signal like 104.1 or 92.9? In that vein, how would the Alt format perform if it was on a big signal like 104.1 or 92.9?

 

[SirRoxalot]

My guess is that if the owners of 104.1 or 92.9 thought that either the WECK format or the Alt format would do better numbers than the current programming, they'd be changing format. One of the dangers of too much success with a limited facility is that somebody with a better facility and deeper pockets can usually co-opt your format if it works too well.

Buddy's not really going head-to-head with any of the big boys right now, and they're generally willing to cede 65+ numbers to his format. As an occasional listener, I find WECK to be about my 4th alternative on my car radio, and when I do go there, it usually takes me less than ten minutes to hit the button again in search of something more interesting. For every "oh, wow" song, there's an "oy vey" song.

Buddy, I hope you make a million. I like the premise more than the current product. I think that your idea of selling results instead of ratings will be much more fruitful in the long run.

 

[tbolt909]

No Corporate company would put a format aimed at 60+ year olds on a big signal. Some current formats are aging into those Demos anyway (WBEN, Classic Rock & Hits).

The Edge essentially is Alternative. The Lake format had to use the same signal as ALT 107.7. Maybe​ it's the current content that's the problem...

 

[Buddy Shula]

My guess is that if the owners of 104.1 or 92.9 thought that either the WECK format or the Alt format would do better numbers than the current programming, they'd be changing format. One of the dangers of too much success with a limited facility is that somebody with a better facility and deeper pockets can usually co-opt your format if it works too well.

Buddy's not really going head-to-head with any of the big boys right now, and they're generally willing to cede 65+ numbers to his format. As an occasional listener, I find WECK to be about my 4th alternative on my car radio, and when I do go there, it usually takes me less than ten minutes to hit the button again in search of something more interesting. For every "oh, wow" song, there's an "oy vey" song.

Buddy, I hope you make a million. I like the premise more than the current product. I think that your idea of selling results instead of ratings will be much more fruitful in the long run.

I have to respectfully disagree. I think the product is far above where it used to be, and we have lot's of work to still do. I think the stations sound great, and we will continue to refine to super-serve 55 plus. Call us the senior station. Let the wall street companies go after 25-54. I cannot compete in that arena, unless I had a bigger FM, like perhaps....."Alt Buffalo????"

 

[TheBigA]

I have to respectfully disagree. I think the product is far above where it used to be,

I agree and it shows your dedication coupled with your knowledge & experience. There should be more people like you buying up radio stations and saving them.

 

[DaveMasonsd]

WECK's biggest problem is not WECK.

Take this for what it's worth (and it's probably not much). I knew 1230 when it was WNIA with Tommy Thomas, Jerry Jack, etc. It was "Tiger Radio" and I knew it well because I was at the co-owned WSAY in Rochester for 18 wonderful months. After the death of Gordon Brown, the owner I saw the station stumble for years to find a home and a market niche. Then they discovered music that had been dormant for decades, and the audience that was still on AM. That was "Music of Your Life" and the variants provided by WECK in the mid to late 80s. The songs played from the 40's 50's and 60's were favorites of a whole lot of people who (please note) couldn't get them anywhere else. Granted it was a 50+ audience but it put WECK into the enviable position of the highest rated station of its type in the COUNTRY. That -being a 1000 watt facility. Then the format was "adjusted" and basically messed with to provide more services and diversity. Heck it worked for WBEN, why not WECK? (The answer: -WBEN listeners didn't feel the need to move to another station.) When WECK started playing things like "Tuxedo Junction" by Rod Stewart - can you understand why it didn't work ? Thank God that Frank Sinatra didn't live long enough to record "Maggie May". WECK's problems -if any -aren't because of WECK exclusively. Take your radio and scan the AM dial some day or night. How many stations are listenable? Truly listenable? Then go to the FM dial and do the same. I don't care your age or taste. AM radio can't offer the variety that FM offers. If you hear a Kenny Rogers song on WECK 1230, does it sound as good as it would on 102.9? If I hear a song I don't necessarily like on 1230, where am I gonna go for a song I do like? On AM -even in Buffalo there's not much choice. If I can't get the FM translator where I live it's even worse. My point is this. If you own a shopping mall and your "anchor" stores leave, it's going to be difficult to stay in business. With WGR and WWKB offering little for the general public, WBEN is the sole choice for news/talk. Back in the day 'GR, KB and BEN fought it out for listeners. We were so good that we had a lot of people on the AM band-and that helped WECK. Today ? Nah. I've listened for the past 20 minutes-and the music's not bad-but not very exclusive. Oh "Song Sung Blue" -good song. "You Decorated My Life" by Kenny Rogers. A Frank Sinatra song. "Sail On" by The Commodores. Cute. Even the 50+ target would probably enjoy some tempo now and then. Today you've GOT to be different. Having Jon Summers, Danny Neaverth, Harve Moore and now Steve Chichon add personality that's not very prevalent these days on AM radio. Back in the day you had those guys, Fred Klestine, Stan Roberts, Jack Mindy, Jeff Kaye (RIP), Joey Reynolds, Chuck Lakefield...do you get my drift ? AM radio had a lot more choice than you have today. It's tough to keep people there. If (for whatever reason) I don't like what I'm hearing on WECK...where am I going to go on the AM band for personality? Aaah I'm rambling, I know. I would LOVE to hear that Buddy is successful with WECK. At 3am (Buffalo time) I'm hearing Petula Clark, and a bunch of other "MOR" songs. I'm a 70 year old guy who grew up with The Beatles, Dave Clark Five, Four Tops - the cream of the crop of music that's not being played right now-anywhere. I'd put a dose of those songs up against what's on WECK right now and from the music research I've seen over the past 4 or 5 decades, they'd win hands down. If the belief that the 55+ audience wants nothing but ballads has any credibility in this day and age, you'd be hard pressed to prove it. Everything from Neil Sedaka to The Rolling Stones to Jr. Walker to (yikes) The Archies. NO one's going to like these songs -except maybe the listener. (Perry Como's "Magic Moments" is on now-nice song and it's a great throwback to 1957. Is "All Shook Up" less loved? Oh-you don't have to sell me on the radio station between every song either. Jim Merkle has a great voice- and does a great job...but I would love to just hear a couple of songs with -maybe a jingle or nothing in between. And here's a thought. If Harve and Tom and Gail and Jon are so good--why not repeat their shows? Do you really thing that the 1am listener is going to be the same person as the 1pm listener ? Technology will let you do that now. People tune in to a station to hear things they LIKE. In 2018 they have a lot of ways to get what they like. That means narrowing what you present on your audio delivery service has to be MORE of what they like. In the case of music-the more you play, the more you risk playing something your listener DOESN'T like. "We have a big playlist" means that that song I heard today that I LOVED....won't play again for at least another week and probably in a daypart where I'm not listening. You'll find it difficult to find a massive amount of people with a massive amount of time to listen. You'll win more with a LOT of people listening for 20-30 minutes a day (on average). Is there proof? Yup. I was part of a radio station that just 5 years ago trimmed it's playlist to an unheard of 300 (somewhat) songs. We had songs that played 4 and 5 times a day. The "experts" (including people on this site) thought we were crazy. Crazy enough for the station to make it to #1 in 6 months in the nation's 2nd largest market. Our goal? "Play their favorites." I'm listening to "Daydreaming" by Aretha Franklin right now. G R E A T song. Is it a favorite of most AM radio music listeners? Ever heard of "Respect"? I rest my case your honor. Seriously Buddy, best of luck with the station - you've got an uphill battle because you've got a wonderful frequency with great personalities...but you're on AM to most people. WECK has been on AM since 1980 (or thereabouts)- and I'd suggest most people think of 1230 when they think of WECK, not 102.9.

 

[Element9]

↑ "West coast stream of consciousness" with a healthy seasoning of Western New York street smarts. Bravo! ↑

 

[Buddy Shula]

Take this for what it's worth (and it's probably not much). I knew 1230 when it was WNIA with Tommy Thomas, Jerry Jack, etc. It was "Tiger Radio" and I knew it well because I was at the co-owned WSAY in Rochester for 18 wonderful months. After the death of Gordon Brown, the owner I saw the station stumble for years to find a home and a market niche. Then they discovered music that had been dormant for decades, and the audience that was still on AM. That was "Music of Your Life" and the variants provided by WECK in the mid to late 80s. The songs played from the 40's 50's and 60's were favorites of a whole lot of people who (please note) couldn't get them anywhere else. Granted it was a 50+ audience but it put WECK into the enviable position of the highest rated station of its type in the COUNTRY. That -being a 1000 watt facility. Then the format was "adjusted" and basically messed with to provide more services and diversity. Heck it worked for WBEN, why not WECK? (The answer: -WBEN listeners didn't feel the need to move to another station.) When WECK started playing things like "Tuxedo Junction" by Rod Stewart - can you understand why it didn't work ? Thank God that Frank Sinatra didn't live long enough to record "Maggie May". WECK's problems -if any -aren't because of WECK exclusively. Take your radio and scan the AM dial some day or night. How many stations are listenable? Truly listenable? Then go to the FM dial and do the same. I don't care your age or taste. AM radio can't offer the variety that FM offers. If you hear a Kenny Rogers song on WECK 1230, does it sound as good as it would on 102.9? If I hear a song I don't necessarily like on 1230, where am I gonna go for a song I do like? On AM -even in Buffalo there's not much choice. If I can't get the FM translator where I live it's even worse. My point is this. If you own a shopping mall and your "anchor" stores leave, it's going to be difficult to stay in business. With WGR and WWKB offering little for the general public, WBEN is the sole choice for news/talk. Back in the day 'GR, KB and BEN fought it out for listeners. We were so good that we had a lot of people on the AM band-and that helped WECK. Today ? Nah. I've listened for the past 20 minutes-and the music's not bad-but not very exclusive. Oh "Song Sung Blue" -good song. "You Decorated My Life" by Kenny Rogers. A Frank Sinatra song. "Sail On" by The Commodores. Cute. Even the 50+ target would probably enjoy some tempo now and then. Today you've GOT to be different. Having Jon Summers, Danny Neaverth, Harve Moore and now Steve Chichon add personality that's not very prevalent these days on AM radio. Back in the day you had those guys, Fred Klestine, Stan Roberts, Jack Mindy, Jeff Kaye (RIP), Joey Reynolds, Chuck Lakefield...do you get my drift ? AM radio had a lot more choice than you have today. It's tough to keep people there. If (for whatever reason) I don't like what I'm hearing on WECK...where am I going to go on the AM band for personality? Aaah I'm rambling, I know. I would LOVE to hear that Buddy is successful with WECK. At 3am (Buffalo time) I'm hearing Petula Clark, and a bunch of other "MOR" songs. I'm a 70 year old guy who grew up with The Beatles, Dave Clark Five, Four Tops - the cream of the crop of music that's not being played right now-anywhere. I'd put a dose of those songs up against what's on WECK right now and from the music research I've seen over the past 4 or 5 decades, they'd win hands down. If the belief that the 55+ audience wants nothing but ballads has any credibility in this day and age, you'd be hard pressed to prove it. Everything from Neil Sedaka to The Rolling Stones to Jr. Walker to (yikes) The Archies. NO one's going to like these songs -except maybe the listener. (Perry Como's "Magic Moments" is on now-nice song and it's a great throwback to 1957. Is "All Shook Up" less loved? Oh-you don't have to sell me on the radio station between every song either. Jim Merkle has a great voice- and does a great job...but I would love to just hear a couple of songs with -maybe a jingle or nothing in between. And here's a thought. If Harve and Tom and Gail and Jon are so good--why not repeat their shows? Do you really thing that the 1am listener is going to be the same person as the 1pm listener ? Technology will let you do that now. People tune in to a station to hear things they LIKE. In 2018 they have a lot of ways to get what they like. That means narrowing what you present on your audio delivery service has to be MORE of what they like. In the case of music-the more you play, the more you risk playing something your listener DOESN'T like. "We have a big playlist" means that that song I heard today that I LOVED....won't play again for at least another week and probably in a daypart where I'm not listening. You'll find it difficult to find a massive amount of people with a massive amount of time to listen. You'll win more with a LOT of people listening for 20-30 minutes a day (on average). Is there proof? Yup. I was part of a radio station that just 5 years ago trimmed it's playlist to an unheard of 300 (somewhat) songs. We had songs that played 4 and 5 times a day. The "experts" (including people on this site) thought we were crazy. Crazy enough for the station to make it to #1 in 6 months in the nation's 2nd largest market. Our goal? "Play their favorites." I'm listening to "Daydreaming" by Aretha Franklin right now. G R E A T song. Is it a favorite of most AM radio music listeners? Ever heard of "Respect"? I rest my case your honor. Seriously Buddy, best of luck with the station - you've got an uphill battle because you've got a wonderful frequency with great personalities...but you're on AM to most people. WECK has been on AM since 1980 (or thereabouts)- and I'd suggest most people think of 1230 when they think of WECK, not 102.9.

Well I can tell you that 40 percent of WECK listening is on FM. that will go up when we get our second fm. The songs you talk about are am rock songs. We are an adult standard station. With locals news and info and known personalities. That’s it. If people like it great. Advertisers are loving it.

 

[four4rock]

Yowza! That was one long-ass post! Funny thing is, I read the whole thing. I have no clue about how to run a radio station. I love local business(es)... and want them to succeed... 'cuz everyone wins IMO. But I will say - as I have in the past - WECK sounds "old". You radio & tech types can probably tell me specifically why. Who wants to feel "old"? Blech! I agree with the 'tempo' thing that "DaveMasonsd" touched on. Seems skewed toward snoozers - at least by my threshold. Oh, they're good tunes, no doubt... just too weighted toward zzzzzzz. And I also agree that if/when a song that I do not like comes on... I need to jump the band. When I listen to 60's on 6 or 70's on 7, I don't have to jump ship entirely when a crappy song comes on. And, yes, even to a limited listener, when I hear "WECK", I think AM. Frankly, other than reading this board, I'd never have know that WECK has an FM counterpart.

I'm not bashing... just honest open direct perception. Among the last things I want to hear is that WECK has retained the same attorneys currently feasting on Tops Friendly Markets.

 

[Buddy Shula]

Yowza! That was one long-ass post! Funny thing is, I read the whole thing. I have no clue about how to run a radio station. I love local business(es)... and want them to succeed... 'cuz everyone wins IMO. But I will say - as I have in the past - WECK sounds "old". You radio & tech types can probably tell me specifically why. Who wants to feel "old"? Blech! I agree with the 'tempo' thing that "DaveMasonsd" touched on. Seems skewed toward snoozers - at least by my threshold. Oh, they're good tunes, no doubt... just too weighted toward zzzzzzz. And I also agree that if/when a song that I do not like comes on... I need to jump the band. When I listen to 60's on 6 or 70's on 7, I don't have to jump ship entirely when a crappy song comes on. And, yes, even to a limited listener, when I hear "WECK", I think AM. Frankly, other than reading this board, I'd never have know that WECK has an FM counterpart.

I'm not bashing... just honest open direct perception. Among the last things I want to hear is that WECK has retained the same attorneys currently feasting on Tops Friendly Markets.

The only feasting going on at WECK is on prime rib. The station has never done better. This is a station geared to 55 plus minimum. I will take that demo every day of the week. There is enough revenue pie there for WECK. a Wall Street company could not survive on it. But WECK can easily. Plus it is our niche. As far as you not knowing about the FM, that is WECKS prior lack of outside promotion. That will be changing Trust me, I got this.