Fall ratings withheld?

[dustintv]

Ratings for the first phase of fall came for Buffalo today, but Rochester's are being whitheld "for publication" by Arbitron. What's the scoop? I know they do it Syracuse all the time because of non-subscribers. Same case?

 

[scooterodell]

Rochester's trends have been embargoed for years. It's annoying.

 

[AndrewLawson]

Rochester's trends have been embargoed for years. It's annoying.

Years? It looks like Radio & Records has Rochester 12+ ratings from Winter, Spring & Summer of '08. Could it be that Stephens Media Group and Arbitron do not have a contract in place, causing Arbitron not to release Rochester 12+ for publication?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Years? It looks like Radio & Records has Rochester 12+ ratings from Winter, Spring & Summer of '08. Could it be that Stephens Media Group and Arbitron do not have a contract in place, causing Arbitron not to release Rochester 12+ for publication?

I have a different theory; and that is the two major media companies don't want this information released because their top earners didn't fare that well in the fall book and they don't want advertisers to find out about it.
The company I work for is privy to the book (because of unnamed clients we do business with) and a few of them are concerned about what they say is a continuing decline in the number of people listening to radio. The biggest worry is that younger people have stopped listening to radio altogether and instead rely on other means to hear music. Some older people have also started to bypass radio for I Pods, CD's and the new technology that is emerging.
Personally I have little regard for Arbitron's rating system to begin with. The perfect example is that in the last book stations in Dansville and Buffalo recorded an audience while WYSL in Avon, with its 20k blasting into Rochester, didn't even register. Information that my employer obtained shows that WYSL does have an audience and it's growing, yet Arbitron seems to be missing that data.
Could I be remiss in thinking that Arbitron is being "paid off" not to release the Fall Book?

 

[Savage]

Hey VOR, could you PM me or call me at the station??

Arbitron is a continuous source of mirth at WYSL (how many stations can make THAT claim??)

I say "mirth" because, while Radio's Only Ratings Service generally reports WYSL has an audience too small to measure, our streaming portal company WarpRadio reports the following for our live internet stream:

MONTH LISTENERS TOTAL HOURS LISTENED AVERAGE TSL

[EDIT]



While Arbitron can't find our terrestrial audience, the web listening figures and trends are obvious. Most peculiar, no?

Also....every Arbitron book is imprinted with the title, "Listening ESTIMATES for....such and such a market, quarter and year." If you look in your Webster, the leading synomym for "estimate" is..."guess."

There's no guessing with internet listening. The streaming company logs each unique IP address and how long that computer was logged on. The results are simply tabulated and reported reliably, month after month....for FREE. It's simple arithmetic....NO guesswork/"estimating."


[EDIT-post truncated because original material is copyrighted.]

 

[SirRoxalot]

Warped Ratings?

Gee, Bob, who knew that you had that many friends... or people that owed you money... or people you owed money to... or people who wanted to see the picture of "Quinn and Rose" (shudder)...

 

[Bob1370]

Bob, your numbers for WYSL represent real, measurable cume and TSL. Theoretically Arbitron diaries are supposed to include online listening to a station, and Arbitron reports should reflect it. Bob, a 28,000 cume, which you clearly have in addition to whatever over-the-air listenership you're getting, should have resulted, IIRC, in better numbers for WYSL than for WROC or WHTK in the summer book, just to name two...even if ALL your listening is online, which I'm sure is far from the case.

But Arbitron missed it all.

God only knows how many other stations are underweighted as a result of the same flaws that are understating your reach. Makes you wonder if any of the numbers below the top 3 in the market (WBEE, WHAM and WDKX) have any real validity, or are all deflated...

That shows a major flaw in Arbitron's methods. No wonder Cumulus and some of the Clear Channel clusters are coaxing Nielsen back into the ratings business.

 

[Savage]

Careful, Rox....I still have "those photos" in the archive. You wouldn't want to start seeing a "See Sir RoxA Lot" page on the website, now would you.....?? ;D ;D

We ARE redoing the site.....we COULD make it happen.....for 46,000+ heavy-breathing visitors.....

 

[scooterodell]

Rochester's trends have been embargoed for years. It's annoying.

Years? It looks like Radio & Records has Rochester 12+ ratings from Winter, Spring & Summer of '08. Could it be that Stephens Media Group and Arbitron do not have a contract in place, causing Arbitron not to release Rochester 12+ for publication?

Indeed R&R does have the quarterly ratings published. It was the first trend from the fall book that was referred to here. Most markets get their trends published, including Buffalo. Rochester used to get trends published, but no longer. Arbitron only releases Rochester's "book" ratings every quarter. We'll get our fall book published just a bit after Buffalo's fall book, but they'll have the trends in the meantime, and we'll have diddly. There's no conspiracy in place here. It's been this way for a looooooong time.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Careful, Rox....I still have "those photos" in the archive. You wouldn't want to start seeing a "See Sir RoxA Lot" page on the website, now would you.....?? ;D ;D

We ARE redoing the site.....we COULD make it happen.....for 46,000+ heavy-breathing visitors.....

If you put up a "See Sir RoxA Lot" page, you'll have 46,000+ HARDLY breathing visitors...
(how do you spell e-e-w-w-w-w?)

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Hey VOR, could you PM me or call me at the station??

Arbitron is a continuous source of mirth at WYSL (how many stations can make THAT claim??)

I say "mirth" because, while Radio's Only Ratings Service generally reports WYSL has an audience too small to measure, our streaming portal company WarpRadio reports the following for our live internet stream:

MONTH LISTENERS TOTAL HOURS LISTENED AVERAGE TSL

[EDIT]

....and so forth. You get the idea. While Arbitron can't find our terrestrial audience, the web listening figures and trends are obvious. Most peculiar, no?

Also....every Arbitron book is imprinted with the title, "Listening ESTIMATES for....such and such a market, quarter and year." If you look in your Webster, the leading synomym for "estimate" is..."guess."

There's no guessing with internet listening. The streaming company logs each unique IP address and how long that computer was logged on. The results are simply tabulated and reported reliably, month after month....for FREE. It's simple arithmetic....NO guesswork/"estimating."


[EDIT-post truncated because original material is copyrighted.]

Mr. Savage:

The information provided to me by boss was in strict confidence and if he found out that I even mentioned it on this board I could risk losing my job.
However what I can tell you is that from what I've been told your observations about the rating system is totally correct. Your station is being ignored by a certain ratings organization and it does have an audience. The 12+ figures I've personally seen shows your station generating around a 2.5 share. That's all I can really share with you.
Also your morning program (Quinn and Rose) does have a following with older demographics. Or as I refer to them, people who still listen to radio and have the money to spend. Just keep up the good work!

VOR

 

[SirRoxalot]

Ouch!

Uh oh. Bob's been "truncated". I hope it wasn't too painful....

 

[Savage]

Truncated again! Last time was in 1950....old Rochester General Hospital at Bulls' Head....I'm told it was really painful, but thankfully can't remember.

VOR, I totally understand. Thanks very much for volunteering the info you did. You receive the official WYSL Gold Star with Oak Leaf Cluster. Was gonna send you a check for $5000 but I appreciate your need to stay completely anonymous. And thanks for the good tidings, no kidding, I truly appreciate your kindness.

Yeah, we all know Arbitron is a bunch of hooey, at least as far as affects WYSL. Know what? So do a lot of agencies and major advertisers who dump a stack ' cash here regularly.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Stack o' Cash?

Yeah, we all know Arbitron is a bunch of hooey, at least as far as affects WYSL. Know what? So do a lot of agencies and major advertisers who dump a stack ' cash here regularly.

Send your disenfranchised DJ bail-out application to [email protected] or call (585) 346-3000 ...

 

[Savage]

Toll-free for destitute types whose phone-cards are empty: (866) 552-1009.

Yep, they drop stacks o'cash here. Only problem is: it costs stack o'cash x 0.9979 to run this joint. Which is why frequently I'm in line right behind JustPastBuffalo returning those aluminum cans down at Weggies...the car needs that "practically free!!!" 2.12 gas, ya know!

Christmas bonuses this year: the Fybush 2009 Tower Site Calendar. Festive!!

 

[OttoM]

Christmas bonuses this year: the Fybush 2009 Tower Site Calendar. Festive!!

Hey - at least you're giving a Christmas bonus. At a lot of places that's becoming as rare as a Kodak Disc Camera.

 

[Savage]

Well, I didn't say they ALL get a Fybush Tower Site Calendar. They get to USE the one in the conference room. So Employee A gets to take the calendar home for January, Employee B gets it for February. And so on.

Seriously, we have paid bonuses, I think it was four out of the last five Christmases. Plus we let 'em have freebees, essentially whatever they want, within reason. They work NO holidays - EVER, unless they're parttimers and holidays fall on weekends. So Easter, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Black Friday, Christmas, New Year's Eve Day and New Year's Day are all paid holidays. For everyone.

They get two weeks a year vacation with pay besides the holidays. And outside of required airshifts they can decide what hours to work. My philosophy is, anybody who makes over $150 per week should be able to work when it's most productive for them. WYSL has never had a time-punch system. Hourly employees work on the honor system - they fill out little hours slips; if you can look me in the eye and tell me you worked it, you get paid for it, no questions asked. If you can't trust an employee, they shouldn't be there. Honestly, most people err on the side of not submitting enough hours.

In 22 years we've never had a theft of anything of value from the building. No offices or files are ever locked. I believe that people behave in accordance with your expectations of them. If you treat them like respected professionals, they will aspire to that standard. Treat 'em like fourth graders, and a fourth grader is what you'll get every time.

It all must work for everyone because we have the lowest personnel turnover of any station I've ever known.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Well, I didn't say they ALL get a Fybush Tower Site Calendar. They get to USE the one in the conference room. So Employee A gets to take the calendar home for January, Employee B gets it for February. And so on.

Seriously, we have paid bonuses, I think it was four out of the last five Christmases. Plus we let 'em have freebees, essentially whatever they want, within reason. They work NO holidays - EVER, unless they're parttimers and holidays fall on weekends. So Easter, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Black Friday, Christmas, New Year's Eve Day and New Year's Day are all paid holidays. For everyone.

They get two weeks a year vacation with pay besides the holidays. And outside of required airshifts they can decide what hours to work. My philosophy is, anybody who makes over $150 per week should be able to work when it's most productive for them. WYSL has never had a time-punch system. Hourly employees work on the honor system - they fill out little hours slips; if you can look me in the eye and tell me you worked it, you get paid for it, no questions asked. If you can't trust an employee, they shouldn't be there. Honestly, most people err on the side of not submitting enough hours.

In 22 years we've never had a theft of anything of value from the building. No offices or files are ever locked. I believe that people behave in accordance with your expectations of them. If you treat them like respected professionals, they will aspire to that standard. Treat 'em like fourth graders, and a fourth grader is what you'll get every time.

It all must work for everyone because we have the lowest personnel turnover of any station I've ever known.

It appears that your employees are indeed fortunate. With a number of radio operations laying off people, cutting salaries, and management treating workers like serfs, you seem to truly care for your staff.
As I once wrote on here, the trend used to be that people with some experience would try moving on to larger markets. Now it appears that some broadcasters would rather stay in smaller markets, perhaps make less money, but at least have jobs and are appreciated.
Who knows, maybe the salvation of terrestrial radio will be stations like yours and not the cookie-cutter operations that operate in cities like Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester.

 

[fybush]

Well, I didn't say they ALL get a Fybush Tower Site Calendar. They get to USE the one in the conference room. So Employee A gets to take the calendar home for January, Employee B gets it for February. And so on.

Assuming I remember to get down to Lakeville to flip the page each month?

(And you know, Bob, I do have quantity discounts available...they make great holiday gifts!)

 

[Savage]

I heard that because of the economic downturn the upcoming Fybush Tower Calendar will depict only VERY SHORT towers, and daytimers...? (There's that "truncated" thing again....)