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Fantastic Indoor HD antenna: BUY THE SILVER RIBBON!

M

Mike Walker

Guest
I just got my Magnum Dynalab SR100 Silver Ribbon today. It's great! Watch the fingers putting it together. It IS NOT "razor sharp", but caution is advised, as cuts are possible.

There are no instructions, but assembly is straightforward. Magnum Dynalab makes a big deal about the antenna's "tunability" across the fm band, but in my locale, HD reception is more solid and stable across the band with the loops of the dipole at maximum length, and the center shaft at minimum (I haven't used it as a tv antenna, perhaps the adjustability is more useful there).

Did it improve my reception? You bet! So far I don't get any more stations in HD, but the ones I get are ALL rock-stable, and I don't have to fiddle with the antenna orientation when retuning, say, from WDAV Davidson NC (89.9) to WTQR Greensboro (104.1), or Lite 102.9 Charlotte. Thay are ALL stable.

The Silver Ribbon provides the best indoor HD reception I have found so far. More stable, and less "fiddly" than rabbit ears, or a wire dipole, including the "FM Reflect". I highly recommend it.
 
Mike... THANKS for the info! The M-D folks produce great FM products. Many today in apartments, condos, and homes within the rule of "neighborhood associations" cannot erect a rooftop antenna for FM or TV. We have been forced to "settle" for available indoor solutions (such as the C Crane "Reflect")... And forget about those "amplified" antennas--unless, of course, you can accept boosting the RF "trash" from your computer, microwave oven, or home security system along with the fringe signal you wish to receive! M-D's new "Ribbon FM" product looks interesting--and they have a reputation for delivering the goods!

I really appreciate your feedback!
 
I'm not surprised. This antenna www.magnumdynalab.com/x_sr100.htm is a folded dipole (in the shape of an upright "Vee") with wide element spacing and "fat" elements, which give it a broadband frequency response.


-- Black Shire

Mike Walker said:
I just got my Magnum Dynalab SR100 Silver Ribbon today. It's great! Watch the fingers putting it together. It IS NOT "razor sharp", but caution is advised, as cuts are possible.

There are no instructions, but assembly is straightforward. Magnum Dynalab makes a big deal about the antenna's "tunability" across the fm band, but in my locale, HD reception is more solid and stable across the band with the loops of the dipole at maximum length, and the center shaft at minimum (I haven't used it as a tv antenna, perhaps the adjustability is more useful there).

Did it improve my reception? You bet! So far I don't get any more stations in HD, but the ones I get are ALL rock-stable, and I don't have to fiddle with the antenna orientation when retuning, say, from WDAV Davidson NC (89.9) to WTQR Greensboro (104.1), or Lite 102.9 Charlotte. Thay are ALL stable.

The Silver Ribbon provides the best indoor HD reception I have found so far. More stable, and less "fiddly" than rabbit ears, or a wire dipole, including the "FM Reflect". I highly recommend it.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting, but all I need are the suppied internal-ferrite bar and whip antennas - no clunky dipole, or loop antennas required ! :D
 
The trick appears to be the V shape, which will simultaneously receive both the horizontally and vertically polarized signals from the transmitting station. Not a bit leap forward in technology. For $35, I could throw a Radio Shack 6 element yagi in the attic.

There is NO antenna specifically designed for HD. Good DX techniques that have been known for decades will improve HD reception. The only FM antenna that might actually hurt HD reception is the Radio Shack tuned box loop for FM - and that is only if they have the Q of the antenna so high that it limits the HD sidebands. Which is unlikely.
 
Actually rbrucecarter5 amplified antennas for all practical purposes don't work with hd (including the best ones from Terk, etc.) The amplifier noise covers up the very low level hd sidebands.

So Terks, etc need not apply. Even my little Radio Shack/Terk that did just fine for analog fm stereo on my Drake SW8 just won't cut it.

A yagi in the attic is great, IF all the stations you want to hear are in the same direction. Otherwise, you might be better off with an antenna that's less fussy about directionality. HD is much less about signal strength than analog fm, and more about signal QUALITY.
 
I never advocate amplified antennas for FM, unless it is one of those very rare cases where it is a professional grade installation that overcomes a long lead in. Not your average $40 in-line amplifier.
 
Mike Walker said:
A yagi in the attic is great, IF all the stations you want to hear are in the same direction. Otherwise, you might be better off with an antenna that's less fussy about directionality. HD is much less about signal strength than analog fm, and more about signal QUALITY.
Click to expand...

Having to mount yagi/dipole antennas in the attic, isn't going to appeal to the average consumer, aggravating the already anemic sales of HD radios.
 
One of the first things I did when I moved into my house in 1993 was to put the super-fringe Winegard FM yagi and rotor in the attic.

Doesn't everyone have a setup like this? I thought this was normal.

I use a preamp, in which I built a full-bypass switch for "off" operation, and use a tuner with a front panel attenuator switch. I live 7 miles from downtown Chicago, and wouldn't be satisfied with anything else.

But the omnidirectional S-curve dipoles that used to be marketed would probably the perfect antenna for close-in HD FM.
 
Tom Wells said:
But the omnidirectional S-curve dipoles that used to be marketed would probably the perfect antenna for close-in HD FM.
Click to expand...

Back in the 1960's and even 70's those were pretty common. I remember that Olson electronics used to stock them in their store in Dallas. They were $6.95 as I recall, and about another $10.00 for the mast, mounting hardware and feed line. They were a good Saturday afternoon project for lots of people who wanted the content and fidelity offered by FM. Maybe they will enjoy renewed popularity. Major Armstrong always intended for you to use an outdoor antenna. ;)

I wonder if you can even find them anymore. I know Winegard still makes some FM Yagi’s. Channel Master may as well. As a result of their in depth market analysis, Radio Shack dumped their 6 element Yagi, just before becoming the poster child for HD. Great timing RS! That’s too bad, because it was a decent antenna.
 
Chuck said:
Tom Wells said:
But the omnidirectional S-curve dipoles that used to be marketed would probably the perfect antenna for close-in HD FM.
Click to expand...

Back in the 1960's and even 70's those were pretty common. I remember that Olson electronics used to stock them in their store in Dallas. They were $6.95 as I recall, and about another $10.00 for the mast, mounting hardware and feed line. They were a good Saturday afternoon project for lots of people who wanted the content and fidelity offered by FM. Maybe they will enjoy renewed popularity. Major Armstrong always intended for you to use an outdoor antenna. ;)

I wonder if you can even find them anymore. I know Winegard still makes some FM Yagi’s. Channel Master may as well. As a result of their in depth market analysis, Radio Shack dumped their 6 element Yagi, just before becoming the poster child for HD. Great timing RS! That’s too bad, because it was a decent antenna.
Click to expand...
The problem with omni-directional S-dipole FM antennas is that digital HD Radio is NOT immune to multipath as avid HD proponents falsely claim, it just mutes or folds back to analog. Therefore a more multipath susceptible omni-directional antenna might not be the best choice for many locations.
 
Actually my experience is that HD often holds up better under multipath than analog. And I'm surrounded by mountains, so I should know!
 
Mike Walker said:
Actually my experience is that HD often holds up better under multipath than analog. And I'm surrounded by mountains, so I should know!
Click to expand...

I live in a fairly flat area, but friends in the San Francisco area confirm that it HD does handle multipath better than analog. Among those people is Bob Orban (of the processor fame). I tend to respect his opinion.

I wonder how it works in the downtown tunnels of Dallas or Houston? The signal strength should be good there, so it probably doesn't drop out.
 
Mike Walker said:
Actually my experience is that HD often holds up better under multipath than analog. And I'm surrounded by mountains, so I should know!
Click to expand...

Impossible - HD Radio cannot change the laws of pure physics !
 
Mike Walker said:
Actually my experience is that HD often holds up better under multipath than analog. And I'm surrounded by mountains, so I should know!
Click to expand...
If the HD radio signal is so robust, then why does HD need all these extra external antennas, instead of the simple ones included with every radio, that almost everyone uses to listen to analog radio?
 
Hell supercaster, good fm stereo needs better antennas than most people use, which is why so damn much blending occurs. I'd wager that MOST people with receivers that "blend" in multipath or weak signal conditions to prevent noise, aren't even listening in stereo most of the time. The receiiver is blending to mono.

IMHO the requirements for clean HD FM are no greater than those for CLEAN analog fm stereo. FM has ALWAYS required a proper antenna for GOOD reception! What amuses me is that people like you seem to think that hooking up rabbit ears, a wire dipole, the existing tv antenna, or something like the inexpensive Magnum Dynalab is somehow an 'extraordinary measure'. What idiot would set a tv in a room, turn it on, and expect to receive ANYTHING without first connecting an antanna (satellite dish, cable box, etc.)???? DUH!
 
All of my portable non-HD, analog AM/FM radios just need the suppiled internal ferrite-bar and whip antennas - no externally mounted dipole, or loop antennas needed ! My boys' stereos also do not need externally mounted antennas - this is partly, what is killing sales of HD radios. Consumers will not buy radios that require elaborate and clunky antennas, and picking up the HD channels is still problematic !

I'm a shilln' for HD Radio/IBOC ! :D
 
"Elaborate and clunky"? Hell, attach a whip to an HD Radio, and it'll work about as well as with a dipole. If you're in town, the line cord will work just fine, as with any other radio.

YOUR OTHER RADIOS ARE PROBABLY MONO! Big difference! NO stereo radio at any distance from a transmitter is getting good stereo without a properly oriented antenna.

Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. My 50 year old Zenith am/fm table radio has an external antenna jack (and a pair of "rabbit ears" is attached). My 60 year old Trans Oceanic has both a VERY big whip antenna, and a 'wave magnet' detachable loop for am reception.

EVERY component receiver and tuner is, and has been for the last 45 years, supplied with two antennas...a wire dipole for fm, and a loop for AM (sometimes it's attached and pivotable on the rear, sometimes detachable, but ALWAYS present). HD radios are supplied with the same damn antenna types that have been common on consumer radios forever. TVs that don't have a "whip" antenna (most of them) require an external one. EVERY radio or television requires an antenna. The requirements for HD are no more or less stringent than for CLEAN fm stereo.

Many are satisfied to listen in analog mono. Most are satisfied enough that they'll wait until their next radio purchase to buy one. But over time they'll become as common as dvd players are now, vcrs were a decade ago, and lp records a generation ago. NONE of the above technologies was an instant success (the dvd being the closest thing to it). People don't instantly replace technology that's "getting the job done". I haven't bought an HDTV yet, for instance. But keep my fingers crossed that one of my tvs will fail before too long, because even my wife agrees that our NEXT tv will be high definition.

The last couple of years the infrastructure (a base of stations) has been installed. This summer and fall, receivers have become available. NOW the promotion (of HD Radio) has just begun. That is the proper order for things to take. Only now is it fair to BEGIN measurement of the public's reaction. But, as with CDs 1985 (they were introduced in '83), or FM radio in 1950 (it was widely introduced after WWII), most haven't heard of HD Radio yet, much less heard it. Anyone who declares a winner (or loser) at the starting gate is, well, kind of biased!
 
Mike Walker said:
"Elaborate and clunky"? Hell, attach a whip to an HD Radio, and it'll work about as well as with a dipole. If you're in town, the line cord will work just fine, as with any other radio.

YOUR OTHER RADIOS ARE PROBABLY MONO! Big difference! NO stereo radio at any distance from a transmitter is getting good stereo without a properly oriented antenna.

Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. My 50 year old Zenith am/fm table radio has an external antenna jack (and a pair of "rabbit ears" is attached). My 60 year old Trans Oceanic has both a VERY big whip antenna, and a 'wave magnet' detachable loop for am reception.

EVERY component receiver and tuner is, and has been for the last 45 years, supplied with two antennas...a wire dipole for fm, and a loop for AM (sometimes it's attached and pivotable on the rear, sometimes detachable, but ALWAYS present). HD radios are supplied with the same damn antenna types that have been common on consumer radios forever. TVs that don't have a "whip" antenna (most of them) require an external one. EVERY radio or television requires an antenna. The requirements for HD are no more or less stringent than for CLEAN fm stereo.

Many are satisfied to listen in analog mono. Most are satisfied enough that they'll wait until their next radio purchase to buy one. But over time they'll become as common as dvd players are now, vcrs were a decade ago, and lp records a generation ago. NONE of the above technologies was an instant success (the dvd being the closest thing to it). People don't instantly replace technology that's "getting the job done". I haven't bought an HDTV yet, for instance. But keep my fingers crossed that one of my tvs will fail before too long, because even my wife agrees that our NEXT tv will be high definition.

The last couple of years the infrastructure (a base of stations) has been installed. This summer and fall, receivers have become available. NOW the promotion (of HD Radio) has just begun. That is the proper order for things to take. Only now is it fair to BEGIN measurement of the public's reaction. But, as with CDs 1985 (they were introduced in '83), or FM radio in 1950 (it was widely introduced after WWII), most haven't heard of HD Radio yet, much less heard it. Anyone who declares a winner (or loser) at the starting gate is, well, kind of biased!
Click to expand...

My boys's STEREO boom-boxes just need the supplied whip and internal ferrite-bar antennas - no ugly, clunk, externally-mounted dipole antennas required ! So, HD radios don't need dipole antennas - just looks at all the personal testimonials under, "HD Radio Receiver Sensitivity" Thread, and look at this article:

"Recepter Gets Another Antenna"

http://rwonline.com/reference-room/iboc/2006.05.10-02_rw_hd_recepter_antenna_3.shtml

:D
 
Have ya' ever seen an HD Radio with a whip? There haven't been any portables yet! Table Radios, home tuners, etc don't have "whips".

My guess is that a whip "monopole" will work as well for FM HD as it does for FM Stereo. In fact I proved it a few minutes ago by connecting a pair of rabbit ears to my radio, and retracting one of the radiators completely. Voila! A "whip" antenna. Oriented properly, the antenna wasn't noticably worse than the dipole. WDAV, from 70 miles away, still came in great. As did WLYT, complete with multicast, from 80 miles away. WDAV's analog signal is pretty darn good here, but WLYT's is noisy, and clean (analog) stereo isn't possible, but HD IS...with a whip, Dude!

Apples and oranges again. "Whips" are used almost entirely on portables. Wait for the portables, Dude! Wait for the portables (sigh!)
 
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