FCC Call Letter Question

[Cosmopolite]

What reason does the FCC give for no longer assigning three-letter calls and when did this policy goes in effect?

 

[bossbill]

Dunno the reason, but it's been a number of years now. KKOL Seattle tried to restore the original KOL call but FCC said NO. Meantime, KKHJ asked for KHJ back because KKHJ said something bad in Spanish and in that case the FCC said OK.

 

[stormy01]

...KKHJ asked for KHJ back because KKHJ said something bad in Spanish and in that case the FCC said OK.

Huh? What does obscene language have to do with call letter assignments? Obscene language has to do with fine$.
Is there a document on the FCC website that shows the reasoning behind this? Please find that one for us!

Here is an article online that makes for some interesting reading about 3-letter call signs:
http://earlyradiohistory.us/3myst.htm

 

[The F Mister]

Thnx for that link, I never really understood the whole call letters thing.

 

[nmoore6676]

...KKHJ asked for KHJ back because KKHJ said something bad in Spanish and in that case the FCC said OK.

Huh? What does obscene language have to do with call letter assignments? Obscene language has to do with fine$.
Is there a document on the FCC website that shows the reasoning behind this? Please find that one for us!

Here is an article online that makes for some interesting reading about 3-letter call signs:
http://earlyradiohistory.us/3myst.htm

The problem was that KKHJ pronounced in Spanish is Kah Kah Atche Hey. Kah Kah or Caca is the equivalent or saying poop in English. Not necessarily obscene but lead to embarrassing tittering so thus the request for change. I suppose that the FCC could have given totally new calls but a case was made to keep the heritage calls.

I recall that after the owner of the station RKO having been declared unfit to own broadcast stations that a sale was forced. The KHJ calls went with TV channel 9 which has since become KCAL-9. I guess in those days unlike now you couldn’t split the ownership of the call so the radio station at AM-930 became KKHJ.

Thanks for the link to the article. I have a nostalgia for the old three letter call signs but it would make them less significant if the FCC started issuing them again, however allowing existing stations that once has them to regain them would not, to me, be a bad thing.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

I recall that after the owner of the station RKO having been declared unfit to own broadcast stations that a sale was forced. The KHJ calls went with TV channel 9 which has since become KCAL-9. I guess in those days unlike now you couldn’t split the ownership of the call so the radio station at AM-930 became KKHJ.

Before KKHJ it was KRTH(AM), as co-owned 101.1 was already KRTH-FM.

Link: http://woodygoulart.com/index.php/boss/comments/radio_station_khj/

 

[radiorob2.0]

...KKHJ asked for KHJ back because KKHJ said something bad in Spanish and in that case the FCC said OK.

Huh? What does obscene language have to do with call letter assignments? Obscene language has to do with fine$.
Is there a document on the FCC website that shows the reasoning behind this? Please find that one for us!

Here is an article online that makes for some interesting reading about 3-letter call signs:
http://earlyradiohistory.us/3myst.htm

The problem was that KKHJ pronounced in Spanish is Kah Kah Atche Hey. Kah Kah or Caca is the equivalent or saying poop in English. Not necessarily obscene but lead to embarrassing tittering so thus the request for change. I suppose that the FCC could have given totally new calls but a case was made to keep the heritage calls.

I recall that after the owner of the station RKO having been declared unfit to own broadcast stations that a sale was forced. The KHJ calls went with TV channel 9 which has since become KCAL-9. I guess in those days unlike now you couldn’t split the ownership of the call so the radio station at AM-930 became KKHJ.

Thanks for the link to the article. I have a nostalgia for the old three letter call signs but it would make them less significant if the FCC started issuing them again, however allowing existing stations that once has them to regain them would not, to me, be a bad thing.

It was more of a "shuck and jive". They never said KHJ in Spanish. It had another name and said the letters in English at the top of the hour.

 

[HadYourPhil]

I can recall WGH in Newport News-Norfolk gave up their heritage calls, and the only way we were able to get them restored was due to personal friends being in the right place at the right time! This was in 1984.
After 'GH, KHJ got theirs back for reasons detailed above, and in an odd move, WJZ is now a radio call sign in Baltimore after being on channel 13 for many, many years. Not sure exactly how that one came about...

 

[bossbill]

Was WJZ owned by the same company as the TV station?

 

[DanStrassberg]

Was WJZ owned by the same company as the TV station?

WJZ (AM) Newark NJ (and later, New York City) was originally owned by either AT&T or RCA. At the time (1943, I believe) when a change in the duopoly rules forced the breakup of duopolies in many markets and the divestiture by RCA-owned NBC of one of its two networks (the Blue Network; NBC/RCA retained the Red Network), NBC spun off WJZ (today's WABC) along with the Blue Network to a new company (The Blue Network Co) headed by a fellow named Noble (can't recall his given name) who had been an exec with the manufacturer of Lifesavers candy. I believe that the Baltimore TV station that later took the WJZ (TV) calls was owned by NBC when it took those calls, but I am by no means sure about that.

 

[fybush]

Was WJZ owned by the same company as the TV station?

WJZ (AM) Newark NJ (and later, New York City) was originally owned by either AT&T or RCA. At the time (1943, I believe) when a change in the duopoly rules forced the breakup of duopolies in many markets and the divestiture by RCA-owned NBC of one of its two networks (the Blue Network; NBC/RCA retained the Red Network), NBC spun off WJZ (today's WABC) along with the Blue Network to a new company (The Blue Network Co) headed by a fellow named Noble (can't recall his given name) who had been an exec with the manufacturer of Lifesavers candy. I believe that the Baltimore TV station that later took the WJZ (TV) calls was owned by NBC when it took those calls, but I am by no means sure about that.

The Baltimore TV station was WAAM, and was neither owned by nor affiliated with NBC when it became WJZ in 1957. It was owned by Westinghouse, which made the (rather flimsy, IMO) case to the FCC that since the WJZ calls had originated with Westinghouse in Newark way back in 1921, they deserved to be resurrected on Baltimore TV 36 years later, and some 30 years after Westinghouse had yielded the original WJZ to RCA.

WJZ(TV) remained with Westinghouse right up until the Westinghouse/CBS merger of 1995, becoming part of the CBS television group, and to answer the original question, what's now WJZ(AM)/WJZ-FM in Baltimore is a CBS Radio property as well.

 

[w9wi]

What reason does the FCC give for no longer assigning three-letter calls and when did this policy goes in effect?

The last totally new 3-letter call was issued to WIS in Columbia, South Carolina in 1930. (see the link Bill W. posted earlier in the thread, http://earlyradiohistory.us/3myst.htm ) (the station is now WVOC but the TV station they built in the 1950s is still WIS)

Quite simply, they ran out of 3-letter calls. Only 676 3-letter calls are possible in "W" territory (and another 676 in "K" territory) -- and *all* land-based radio stations were getting them. Not just broadcasters, but also stations used to communicate with ships, and with fixed stations in other countries. (see, for example, http://www.radiomarine.org/kph-proj.html on the restoration of shore station KPH near San Francisco)

While no new 3-letter calls are being issued, stations which can make a case for having held them in the past, or being associated with a station that held them, can sometimes get them back. As Scott says, the FCC doesn't seem to demand a particularly close association.

 

[CatFM]

KPAT Berkeley, CA was allowed to return to their original KRE call sign in 1972 to celebrate their 50th birthday. Unfortunately, somebody at the station decided to change the call sign to something else with four letters a decade or so later.

If another former 3 letter call sign holder that will be celebrating a milestone birthday asks for their heritage call back, maybe the FCC will be generous again. I just hope they would have the good sense to keep it!

 

[knoxbob]

If you do a call sign check for WNBC on the FCC web site it says they are not available but there isn't a radio station with those calls but there is WNBC TV. Does that mean NBC owns the right to them and you would have to ask permission to use them on a radio station?

 

[DanStrassberg]

KPAT Berkeley, CA was allowed to return to their original KRE call sign in 1972 to celebrate their 50th birthday. Unfortunately, somebody at the station decided to change the call sign to something else with four letters a decade or so later.

Just conjecturing here, but isn't there a possible good reason for what is now, I believe, KVTO wanting to ditch the KRE calls? Doesn't the station now program in Vietnamese? Many people whose first language is an Asian language have trouble pronouncing our letter R. Maybe station management wanted the station's listeners to be able to pronounce the station's call sign.

 

[w9wi]

If you do a call sign check for WNBC on the FCC web site it says they are not available but there isn't a radio station with those calls but there is WNBC TV. Does that mean NBC owns the right to them and you would have to ask permission to use them on a radio station?

WNBC, WNBC-FM, and WNBC-TV are three different callsigns. (the -FM and -TV suffixes count as part of the callsigns) FM and TV stations do NOT necessarily have the -FM or -TV suffixes -- and in the case of NBC's TV station in New York, it *doesn't* have the -TV suffix.

So, since there's already a TV station with the calls "WNBC" (not "WNBC-TV"), there cannot be a radio station with the calls "WNBC".

If NBC could be convinced to change the calls of their TV station from "WNBC" to "WNBC-TV", there could be a "WNBC" radio. Or, a radio station could apply for "WNBC-FM". (though this wouldn't do an AM station any good!)

 

[TomT]

Well, not quite. One station owner can permit another station owner to use the same call for a station in a different service, so long as there is no potential for confusion.

1330 in Rockford, Ill. was originally WRRR, sometime in the '70's they changed to another call. We came on in 1983 as WRRR-FM. Later the Rockford station decided they would like to return to WRRR, and asked us for permission to do so, which we granted since we were about 600 miles away from them.

With our signed permission in hand, the FCC readily granted the AM station that call.

 

[CatFM]

KPAT Berkeley, CA was allowed to return to their original KRE call sign in 1972 to celebrate their 50th birthday. Unfortunately, somebody at the station decided to change the call sign to something else with four letters a decade or so later.

Just conjecturing here, but isn't there a possible good reason for what is now, I believe, KVTO wanting to ditch the KRE calls? Doesn't the station now program in Vietnamese? Many people whose first language is an Asian language have trouble pronouncing our letter R. Maybe station management wanted the station's listeners to be able to pronounce the station's call sign.

KRE was still had an Urban Contemporary format when they gave up the call. They operated as KRE AM-FM from 1972 through about 1980, and then the FM became KBLX(FM) while KRE continued on AM. Around 1986, KRE changed to KBLX as well, still under an Urban format.

 

[CatFM]

Oops, pardon my poor proofreading job in the previous post. Getting back to the original question, I have often wondered the same thing. While the supply of 3 letter calls was exhausted, the FCC did at some point (probably around 1930) make a policy change to no longer allow 3 letter calls to be assigned for broadcast use. I have never been able to find an official explanation as to why that decision was made.

 

[w9wi]

Well, not quite. One station owner can permit another station owner to use the same call for a station in a different service, so long as there is no potential for confusion.

1330 in Rockford, Ill. was originally WRRR, sometime in the '70's they changed to another call. We came on in 1983 as WRRR-FM. Later the Rockford station decided they would like to return to WRRR, and asked us for permission to do so, which we granted since we were about 600 miles away from them.

With our signed permission in hand, the FCC readily granted the AM station that call.

But WRRR and WRRR-FM are not the same call. The -FM is considered part of the callsign -- a part the 1330 station in Rockford doesn't have. It's because of that difference that you were able to permit the Rockford station to use the WRRR calls.

When you filed for your callsign in 1983, you had the option of applying for WRRR instead of WRRR-FM. If you'd done so, it would have been impossible for you to permit the Rockford station to use the WRRR calls. (or there would have been two WRRR's)

(you could however then file to change your calls from WRRR to WRRR-FM at which point the Rockford station could make the change)