FCC expected to adopt HD radio rules March 22nd

[dumber than a box of hair]

Apparently the commision was convinced that IBOC operates within the law.

How did they do that? Please enlighten us. Tell us which members of the commission have any engineering background whatsoever. In fact, tell us which members of the commission even know that §73.44 exists, know what it means and know what it was designed to do.

They have authorized a disaster for the AM band, and they don't even realize it.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Apparently the commision was convinced that IBOC operates within the law. Only the HD detractors in here claim otherwise.

Apparently you can't read. HD detractors don't claim otherwise. The FCC claims otherwise.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Interesting. I attended a meeting with Ibiquity and Harris personael and what we at the SBE were told was that the fee for an HD 1 is paid once by a broadcaster. If said broadcasters sells the station, the new owner pays a licensing fee.

Interesting how you were lied to.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Interesting. I attended a meeting with Ibiquity and Harris personael and what we at the SBE were told was that the fee for an HD 1 is paid once by a broadcaster. If said broadcasters sells the station, the new owner pays a licensing fee.

Interesting how you were lied to.

Meanwhile the law is the law. Don't like it. Take them to court. The FCC decides what the laws are. As for being lied to, that goes two ways. I don't believe I was lied to by Ibiquity Aand no one would say that Harris isn't a legit company. I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

 

[clouseau]

Interesting. I attended a meeting with Ibiquity and Harris personael and what we at the SBE were told was that the fee for an HD 1 is paid once by a broadcaster. If said broadcasters sells the station, the new owner pays a licensing fee.

Interesting how you were lied to.

Meanwhile the law is the law. Don't like it. Take them to court. The FCC decides what the laws are. As for being lied to, that goes two ways. I don't believe I was lied to by Ibiquity Aand no one would say that Harris isn't a legit company. I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Aw come on. The Anti HD crowd says Ibiquity is lying. They ALWAYS lie. They even posted the lie on their website. Lies lies lies. Anything to do with HD radio is a lie. EVERYONE knows you have to pay an annual fee just to use a radio much less transmit.

http://www.ibiquity.com/i/Licensing_Fact_Sheet2007.pdf Even this link shows how they lie.

Note how the main channel is misrepresented as not having recurring fees. Lies lies lies.
Actually I think the licensing might be a one shot deal. You DO need to renew the Tin foil hat every year, though.

Clouseau

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I notice all solutions require further cash flow to ibquity.

The soybeans are doing their perfectly legal work.
My tomatoes are now dead.

In "big corn country", when farmers are growing hybrid corn for sale as seed corn, they must be VERY careful about cross pollination, or their
work is ruined. If Bill and Becky Acre-Lot are growing sweet corn for their families, the hybrid farmers will often PAY the
hobbyists to NOT grow corn which would pollute the pollination of hybrids.

I guess you either aren't aware of the Armstrong FM patents, which required payments to Afmstrong on not only the transmission equipment but on FM receivers. Then of course in the 20's Western Electric held the transmitter/tube patent and every station had to pay Western Electric a fee. This isn't the first time these things have happened and it won't be tha last. Ibiquity is no worse than Armstrong, or Western Electric. It's how business is done in the United States.

The payments to Armstrong from FM patents were small. In some cases only $1.00 per year, just enough to acknowledge his patent rights.
Payments to iBiquity are very much larger, and you get much less for your $1.00.

 

[R.F. Burns]

I notice all solutions require further cash flow to ibquity.

The soybeans are doing their perfectly legal work.
My tomatoes are now dead.

In "big corn country", when farmers are growing hybrid corn for sale as seed corn, they must be VERY careful about cross pollination, or their
work is ruined. If Bill and Becky Acre-Lot are growing sweet corn for their families, the hybrid farmers will often PAY the
hobbyists to NOT grow corn which would pollute the pollination of hybrids.

I guess you either aren't aware of the Armstrong FM patents, which required payments to Afmstrong on not only the transmission equipment but on FM receivers. Then of course in the 20's Western Electric held the transmitter/tube patent and every station had to pay Western Electric a fee. This isn't the first time these things have happened and it won't be tha last. Ibiquity is no worse than Armstrong, or Western Electric. It's how business is done in the United States.

The payments to Armstrong from FM patents were small. In some cases only $1.00 per year, just enough to acknowledge his patent rights.
Payments to iBiquity are very much larger, and you get much less for your $1.00.

1 dollar a year huh? Where'd you get that number? Was that 1 dollar per receiver? Receivers licensed by Armstrong had a sticker attached stating that they were officially licensed by Armstrong. Philco, manufactured an FM radio without license. RCA (and others) refused to pay the royalty and also did what they could to destroy FM radio. Historically we see how well that went. How many times must this be repeated, No one is forced to go digital. All the ruling says is that IBOC is the digital system adopted for use in the United States. If you own a radio station and can prove harmful interference within your licensed contour you have grounds for action. If you live in an area where you depend on skywave reception (and even in rural upstate NY where the population is small, there are local stations serving those areas) we'll have to see what the outcome will be. I can't imagine many people living in areas without any radio service. Of course there's always directv and dish network for areas served by no one. Meanwhile the millions of people who live in more populated areas will enjoy far superior broadcast quality.There are already many times more HD stations on the air than AM stereo operations.

 

[Tom Wells]

It is interesting how Mr Burns continues to over look the very real question about why the analog on the remaining AM must sound so terrible.

I keep waiting and asking, with a very repectful queston.
Are you actually trying to find out and verify this for yourself before answering,
or do you already know this to be true but cannot admit it here?

Of course the s, f, the t and the z, along with other sharp sounds, are hi frequency data.
We're equipped to decode them directly as information when used appropriately and sparingly.

I again ask you to be big enough to admit that such analog modulation products overrun the data redundancy available.

And that this is why you expect my " go ahead and stay analog" to sound literally like my '27 AK 35 with its horn speaker?

You have the floor, Mr Burns.
I respectfully await your, or any other radio engineer's assesment of this question.

 

[R.F. Burns]

It is interesting how Mr Burns continues to over look the very real question about why the analog is
made to sound so terrible.

I keep waiting and asking, with a very repectful queston.
Are you actually trying to find out and verify this for yourself before answering,
or do you already know this to be true but cannot admit it here?

Of course the s, f, the t and the z, along with other sharp sounds, are hi frequency data.
We're equipped to decode them directly as information when used appropriately and sparingly.

I again ask you to be big enough to admit that such analog modulation products overrun the data redundancy available.

And that this is why you expect my " go ahead and stay analog" to sound literally like my '27 AK 35 with its horn speaker?

You have the floor, Mr Burns.
I respectfully await your, or any other radio engineer's assesment of this question.

OK AM analog sounds terrible because even wideband AM suffers from atmospheric static and noise, such as those generate by computers, automobile ignitions, leaky transformers, hair dryers, flourescent lamps, television sets and on and on. It's also mono. FM radio as we know it has its shortcomings but nothing as severe as the AM BCB. No one has called IBOC perfect, however it does stand a chance of breathing new life into a spectrum who's demographics are growing old and thus not as sellable to agencies who are looking for younger, more desireable listeners. I can turn my Receptor on next to my computer and when in analog the typical computer whine can be heard mixing with the audio. Whe the radio switches to IBOC the noise disappears, the audio becomes brighter and is also in stereo. I hope this answers your questions. I remember connecting a tuning capacitor and a diode together and connecting that to my stereo and listening to broadband AM radio. It sounded great, but still was subject to static and because it was so broad you'd only be able to hear the strongest stations clearly. Those weaker station wouldn't be listenable. At one time I believe WQXR was allowed to transmit a signal capable of 15 Khz audio. It still suffered from all the ills of AM radio. Prior to FM multiplexing WQXR (the world was electrically much quieter back then), they'd transmit stereo by putting one channel on the AM side and one on the FM (I had a Fisher tuner/pre amp which would tune this mode)side. On FM I can't see any problems with IBOC, at least in my RF congested part of the world.

 

[radiopilot]

I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Yeah... and all of us here believe this too be legit also...

I bet you have 8mm video tapes and cassette recordings to prove that fact also!

Ibiquity is the biggest lying sack of garbage that ever step it's feet on American soil and the FCC fell for this... The lawyers of Ibiquity and the lawyers of the FCC were the ones that forced this digital crap on the unsuspecting public without so much as the publics input... sure the NAB radio types knew about the proceedings and objections to IBOC but I'm sure they didn't broadcast this to the general public over the air, I'm sure the newpapers were not displaying the 'PUBLIC NOTICE' that the FCC should have had printed in all the newspapers across the nation... so the only place they had these meetings were in closed door SBE meetings? What a crying crock of B.S. was that? Was the general public available at those meetings to give their sentiment on this HD crap? NO!

But the end result will be when YES the general public will not embrace HD, and as soon as this digital shower hiss causes so much interference and general annoyance on the air that people will just turn off their radios and either start buying a satelite receiver or simply not tune in at all...

We'll see how well HD radio's profitability falls short of the NAB expectations and see the HD radios sitting on the shelves of stores with no one asking for them or buying them.

Funny how in Dallas alone they project at any given time only 800 HD radios are listened to at any given time.... this is one of the largest metropolitan areas broadcasting in HD.... 800... at those rates HD radio and Ibiquity will GLEEN in Gold......

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Yeah... and all of us here believe this too be legit also...

I bet you have 8mm video tapes and cassette recordings to prove that fact also!

Ibiquity is the biggest lying sack of garbage that ever step it's feet on American soil and the FCC fell for this... The lawyers of Ibiquity and the lawyers of the FCC were the ones that forced this digital crap on the unsuspecting public without so much as the publics input... sure the NAB radio types knew about the proceedings and objections to IBOC but I'm sure they didn't broadcast this to the general public over the air, I'm sure the newpapers were not displaying the 'PUBLIC NOTICE' that the FCC should have had printed in all the newspapers across the nation... so the only place they had these meetings were in closed door SBE meetings? What a crying crock of B.S. was that? Was the general public available at those meetings to give their sentiment on this HD crap? NO!

But the end result will be when YES the general public will not embrace HD, and as soon as this digital shower hiss causes so much interference and general annoyance on the air that people will just turn off their radios and either start buying a satelite receiver or simply not tune in at all...

We'll see how well HD radio's profitability fall short of the NAB expectations and see the HD radios sitting on the shelves of stores with no one asking for them or buying them.

Funny how in Dallas alone they project at any given time only 800 HD radios are listened to at any given time.... this is one of the largest metropolitan areas broadcasting in HD.... 800... at those rates HD radio and Ibiquity will GLEEN in Gold......

Radiopilot

Gee, seems like someone needs to calm down a bit. For your information, HD has only been out of its experimental clasification since Thursday. Show a little patience.

 

[radiopilot]

I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Yeah... and all of us here believe this too be legit also...

I bet you have 8mm video tapes and cassette recordings to prove that fact also!

Ibiquity is the biggest lying sack of garbage that ever step it's feet on American soil and the FCC fell for this... The lawyers of Ibiquity and the lawyers of the FCC were the ones that forced this digital crap on the unsuspecting public without so much as the publics input... sure the NAB radio types knew about the proceedings and objections to IBOC but I'm sure they didn't broadcast this to the general public over the air, I'm sure the newpapers were not displaying the 'PUBLIC NOTICE' that the FCC should have had printed in all the newspapers across the nation... so the only place they had these meetings were in closed door SBE meetings? What a crying crock of B.S. was that? Was the general public available at those meetings to give their sentiment on this HD crap? NO!

But the end result will be when YES the general public will not embrace HD, and as soon as this digital shower hiss causes so much interference and general annoyance on the air that people will just turn off their radios and either start buying a satelite receiver or simply not tune in at all...

We'll see how well HD radio's profitability fall short of the NAB expectations and see the HD radios sitting on the shelves of stores with no one asking for them or buying them.

Funny how in Dallas alone they project at any given time only 800 HD radios are listened to at any given time.... this is one of the largest metropolitan areas broadcasting in HD.... 800... at those rates HD radio and Ibiquity will GLEEN in Gold......

Radiopilot

Gee, seems like someone needs to calm down a bit. For your information, HD has only been out of its experimental clasification since Thursday. Show a little patience.

Not really... The FCC should have had this Public Notice printed in newspapers last month or even had it printed for several months so the general public (who owns the airwaves- the FCC only administers it) can make a complete and accurate assessment about IBOC and whether there might be some detriment to it's use...

So basically the FCC simply took it upon themselves to just follow big corporate stink and lay this crap on the general public? YES!

Then you say the general public should just listen to radio in analog if they don't want to hear the digital HD broadcast... but we have no right to complain about the noise on our radios... infact you go on to say that the radios must be defective? Yeah my Sony, JVS, Grundig, Kenwood, BOSE are all defective.... good thing as I've said before that Savannah has not switched to this digital crap yet!

Radiopilot

 

[Tom Wells]

Mr Burns, you have not answered the question.
In a debate this is some sort of lost point.

I know all the excuses about how and why the FCC has failed to enforce all the previous standards regarding "pt 15".
That is your world. Not everyone has these problems.

I don't need a list of potential problems. I need you to admit you need my analog high frequency "room" to run your
data in, and that high frequency events from analog modulation confuse the receivers' decoding.

I can remember a lot of things, too, and I can also run this laptop near radio devices, and keep the noise out.


You seem to be really avoiding this.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

The FCC decides what the laws are.

Do you even proofread what you write? With replies like this you merit nothing but ridicule. When was the FCC given judicial power?

As for being lied to, that goes two ways. I don't believe I was lied to by Ibiquity Aand no one would say that Harris isn't a legit company. I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Yes, of course. iBiquity is so honest, trustworthy and objective. They have no stake in this whatsoever...no axe to grind...no fees to collect. They're as pure as the driven snow. They've never lied before. We can believe every single word they've said.

BTW, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...really cheap...

 

[R.F. Burns]

The FCC decides what the laws are.

Do you even proofread what you write? With replies like this you merit nothing but ridicule. When was the FCC given judicial power?

As for being lied to, that goes two ways. I don't believe I was lied to by Ibiquity Aand no one would say that Harris isn't a legit company. I'm sure you believe what you are saying but as for me, I'll take the word of Ibiquity. You see, I have the IBOC demostration and their single payment statement on video tape and DVD.

Yes, of course. iBiquity is so honest, trustworthy and objective. They have no stake in this whatsoever...no axe to grind...no fees to collect. They're as pure as the driven snow. They've never lied before. We can believe every single word they've said.

BTW, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...really cheap...

Oh, when I took my tests on Varick street it was at the FCC office, not the postal service. the FCC doesn't have the right to arrest people but they do have the right through proper government agencies apply laws governing spectrum use to enforse the laws which were written by the FCC. Who do you think wrote our broadcast law?

You and others make accusations and when asked for detail you and others refuse to give anything other than cryptic answers. Who am I to believe in this case. You claim that Ibiquity is operating outside of the law. Prove it or stop using that as an excuse for your responses.

 

[davideduardo]

The FCC decides what the laws are.

Do you even proofread what you write? With replies like this you merit nothing but ridicule. When was the FCC given judicial power?

The FCC has the power to write the rules of spectrum usage, to decide on how to regulate indecency, etc., on its own. It also has the power to create administrative law (meaning "precedent") based on the findings of adminstrative law heaings in front of FCC administrative law judges.

The FCC has a set of rules (Part 73 for radio broadcast) and even has judges and courts to resolve conflcts.

These rules ("laws") and procedures are given to the FCC by its charter. Almost all regulatory agencies can set the "laws" which we call "regulations" or "rules." Think OSHA and FAA for good examples.

 

[Tom Wells]

The FCC decides what the laws are.

Do you even proofread what you write? With replies like this you merit nothing but ridicule. When was the FCC given judicial power?

The FCC has the power to write the rules of spectrum usage, to decide on how to regulate indecency, etc., on its own. It also has the power to create administrative law (meaning "precedent") based on the findings of adminstrative law heaings in front of FCC administrative law judges.

The FCC has a set of rules (Part 73 for radio broadcast) and even has judges and courts to resolve conflcts.

These rules ("laws") and procedures are given to the FCC by its charter. Almost all regulatory agencies can set the "laws" which we call "regulations" or "rules." Think OSHA and FAA for good examples.

WOW! I actually get to shake Mr Eduardo's hand in full heartfelt agreement and an amen, brother.
I am genuine in this regard.

Note that all such law, when cited, is suffixed with "as ammended" fully describing its continuous review and revision function.

This unfortunately means they can permit an experimental mode, but as stated by others, if they fail to rewrite other provisions,
there will be grounds for N.A.L.s on emissions, so of course this has "greased aforehand", as has the requirement that
"broadcast" emissions shall be decodable on standard receiving equipment...

It's all " as ammended ".

Who, pray tell, might else have a say, well the ITU comes to mind, and aren't we in violation with our milatary usage of a band we could
be using for digital broadcast, instead of fouling the existing service?

Seems t'me it was some 5-6 Khz, would be fine for HF HD 24 hr.

Next, will RF Burns ever answer the question?
Does 9 khz analog AM kill the bitstream at receive? Yes/No, why, confirm, deny, explain.
Sheesh.

 

[R.F. Burns]

The FCC decides what the laws are.

Do you even proofread what you write? With replies like this you merit nothing but ridicule. When was the FCC given judicial power?

The FCC has the power to write the rules of spectrum usage, to decide on how to regulate indecency, etc., on its own. It also has the power to create administrative law (meaning "precedent") based on the findings of adminstrative law heaings in front of FCC administrative law judges.

The FCC has a set of rules (Part 73 for radio broadcast) and even has judges and courts to resolve conflcts.

These rules ("laws") and procedures are given to the FCC by its charter. Almost all regulatory agencies can set the "laws" which we call "regulations" or "rules." Think OSHA and FAA for good examples.

WOW! I actually get to shake Mr Eduardo's hand in full heartfelt agreement and an amen, brother.
I am genuine in this regard.

Note that all such law, when cited, is suffixed with "as ammended" fully describing its continuous review and revision function.

This unfortunately means they can permit an experimental mode, but as stated by others, if they fail to rewrite other provisions,
there will be grounds for N.A.L.s on emissions, so of course this has "greased aforehand", as has the requirement that
"broadcast" emissions shall be decodable on standard receiving equipment...

It's all " as ammended ".

Who, pray tell, might else have a say, well the ITU comes to mind, and aren't we in violation with our milatary usage of a band we could
be using for digital broadcast, instead of fouling the existing service?

Seems t'me it was some 5-6 Khz, would be fine for HF HD 24 hr.

Next, will RF Burns ever answer the question?
Does 9 khz analog AM kill the bitstream at receive? Yes/No, why, confirm, deny, explain.
Sheesh.

I guess you don't read other threads so I'll tell you again, I do not work for a IBOC radio station. I work at the network level serving thousands of stations nationally. What I know of IBOC is that the analog audio is limited to 5 Khz. So if you are doing IBOC you won't have 9Khz audio bandwidth. What is so hard to understand?