• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

FCC getting looser---let's pirate have STA until LPFM app is filed...

The winds of change are blowing and this will be good for radio!
Well over 100,000 Americans have commented in favor of localism and the government is
starting to listen. Be Glad! The radio revolution is comming! If you can't help out, get out
of the way. New voices and more stations. Down with corpoate consolidation!
 
Guys and Gals, Let's remember that we now live in a more enlightened time! Rules are 'guidelines' there is no absolute right or wrong and thus we must allow expections to pirates, murderers, terrorists and cockroaches (to name a few).. We must not deny law and rule breakers their 'spirit of the law' rights! We must make up the rules day to day and allow things like laws, the constitution and eternal truths to ebb and flow with the times and feelings.. I understand that we are in a new awakening in our country and its direction! What is right and wrong today might be opposite tomorrow... We must determine by each day, the polls, the spin and that 'good feeling' to lead us over any consistant moral code... Eat, drink and be merry pirates! And like the border patrol guys who got their due for following their job discriptions 'to a tee' on illegal alien crossings, then we should jail those FCC agents who'd dare shut down a pirate! Let them FCC agents rot and get beat up in jail.. By the looks of our code of 'today'...Authority is nothing but bigots and racists! Only us free thinkers and lawbreakers have freedom to do what we feel... To heck with those holding laws in our face... We are taking their middle aged-white man rights away... We're not bigots, or racists... Just enlightened humanists who need to declare those as 'sub-humans' with no rights and they should be locked away on a diseased colony/island to die...Pour souls...Oh, do they really have souls like us???? Oh, we are going to allow our types to add "God" to all of our middle names.... Amen.... (The above is not really how I feel or see things...It's frustration in the form of a free thinker who sees the possible ills of CHAOS!) I do support LOCAL LPFM's and a better understanding of fairness of LOCAL over translator service.. But this shows that nothing will be resolved without some order.. Somewhere in the middle and then stick to it with adjustments taken in light of technical advancements... Both sides (in the most extreme) give me a headache! A CO and GM of two LPFM's in Indiana (for two different groups and formats)....
 
So sad but so true, skipper... But you forgot that while government stops playing by the rules, we're sending kids to school where zero tolerance is the law of the land. Kinda backwards, eh?

I wonder how long until other "pirate" stations are going to go down this route?
 
skippertthomas said:
Guys and Gals, Let's remember that we now live in a more enlightened time! Rules are 'guidelines' there is no absolute right or wrong and thus we must allow expections to pirates, murderers, terrorists and cockroaches (to name a few).. We must not deny law and rule breakers their 'spirit of the law' rights! We must make up the rules day to day and allow things like laws, the constitution and eternal truths to ebb and flow with the times and feelings.. I understand that we are in a new awakening in our country and its direction! What is right and wrong today might be opposite tomorrow... We must determine by each day, the polls, the spin and that 'good feeling' to lead us over any consistant moral code... Eat, drink and be merry pirates! And like the border patrol guys who got their due for following their job discriptions 'to a tee' on illegal alien crossings, then we should jail those FCC agents who'd dare shut down a pirate! Let them FCC agents rot and get beat up in jail.. By the looks of our code of 'today'...Authority is nothing but bigots and racists! Only us free thinkers and lawbreakers have freedom to do what we feel... To heck with those holding laws in our face... We are taking their middle aged-white man rights away... We're not bigots, or racists... Just enlightened humanists who need to declare those as 'sub-humans' with no rights and they should be locked away on a diseased colony/island to die...Pour souls...Oh, do they really have souls like us???? Oh, we are going to allow our types to add "God" to all of our middle names.... Amen.... (The above is not really how I feel or see things...It's frustration in the form of a free thinker who sees the possible ills of CHAOS!) I do support LOCAL LPFM's and a better understanding of fairness of LOCAL over translator service.. But this shows that nothing will be resolved without some order.. Somewhere in the middle and then stick to it with adjustments taken in light of technical advancements... Both sides (in the most extreme) give me a headache! A CO and GM of two LPFM's in Indiana (for two different groups and formats)....

I've always found it extremely distasteful whenever government leaders laud the accomplishments of Rosa Parks, as they did at her death. What hypocrisy! The truth is that the government has no use for any form of civil disobedience, even at its most benign; whether refusing to give up a seat on a bus or broadcast without a license.

Governments fear anyone who exercise what they see as their rights.

db
 
Wow! I don't live in Iran, Cuba, or the USSR. If my government makes a mistake, it corrects itself
and does the right thing.

I live in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

By the way John Paul Jones founder of the US Navy was a pirate. Cheers mate!
 
FD... Good point to ponder!!! Too-Shay!!!!
 
Section 15.7 Special temporary authority.
(a) The Commission will, in exceptional situations, consider an individual application for a special
temporary authorization to operate an incidental, intentional or unintentional radiation device not
conforming to the provisions of this part, where it can be shown that the proposed operation would be in
the public interest, that it is for a unique type of station or for a type of operation which is incapable of
being established as a regular service, and that the proposed operation can not feasibly be conducted under
this Part.
 
skippertthomas said:
We must not deny law and rule breakers their 'spirit of the law' rights! We must make up the rules day to day and allow things like laws, the constitution and eternal truths to ebb and flow with the times and feelings..

...We must determine by each day, the polls, the spin and that 'good feeling' to lead us over any consistant moral code...

As someone who strives to be an intellectually consistent, principled critic of powerful people, social trends, and other aspects of the world we live in, I'm disturbed by the frequent implicit assumption that all people who critique the existing order are doing so from a relativist or even nihilist point of view -- that we're acting out of a kind of rudderless, anarchic nothingness. In reality, many of us have positive (in the use of the word meaning "substantial") moral beliefs of our own. (Certainly the civil rights crusaders of the 60s weren't out to "destroy race relations", but rather to establish their own moral belief that a person's skin color has no bearing on his or her worth as a human being. Similarly, many who engage in pirate radio do so out of an honest belief that the current consolidation of media ownership has detrimental effects on the ability to propagate a full range of opinions and beliefs, and a tendency to distort news and other content, potentially endangering our operation as a truly free country.) For some reason, however, the discord between our beliefs and those prevalent in the current power structure or dominant mode of thinking often gets mistaken for nonexistence.

This may well be a benign misunderstanding (and, in a fairly convivial setting such as a message-board discussion, is probably just that), but I've also seen it intentionally employed as an argumentative tactic by those who tend toward legal and philosophical positivism (basically a philosophy that people have an absolute moral obligation to follow the "letter of the law" or that of tradition.) In the latter case, the contention is basically that one's argumentative opponent must want to create chaos by knocking down ALL social barriers or recognized truths, simply because he disagrees with a particular one. (This tactic has frequently been employed in evangelical Christian rhetoric against permitting same-sex marriage.) In this context, the presumption of nihilism functions as a pretense to unassailable objectivity (essentially: "we're right because what is, is, and has been that way for years -- how could it not be right, you evil Antichrist?") Problem is, apply the Kantian categorical imperative ("what if everybody thought or acted this way?") to this, and you get a result that's inconsistent with even the moral objectivists' own views: everyone is unassailably right at the same time!

If we applied this mode of thinking to political debate, we'd end up framing Democrats as "anti-Republicans" or Republicans as "anti-Democrats." Now, of course, which one is the baseline and which the "anti" would depend on the speaker's own political point of view... so in our rush to frame the other side as being vacuous and fluffy (rather than merely disagreeable in substance), we would all -- on both sides! -- be denying that we even HAVE a "view" as such. We'd be denying that we even existed as moral agents, as the thinkers of the thoughts in question -- leaving no explanation for the origin of those thoughts out there, just floating around in the ether (perhaps they were "intelligently designed"?) And we would simultaneously be suggesting that no one other than ourselves was a serious thinker worthy of discursive engagement. This basically solipsistic worldview denies the existence of any thoughts other than the subject's -- i.e., posits a completely empty outside world -- I can hardly think of anything more nihilistic or relativistic than that. In short, positivism -- when applied in such a manner as to suggest that any disagreement with the letter of the law or the established truth is of necessity being done in the name of crime or chaos -- contains a dialectical reversal of itself.
 
Good free flow of thought... Though I might not be as open to the views taken, I am, for certain, a defender of hearing every angle in the debate. Once again, discussion of issues and coming to the end result through looking at the big picture, helps us all... I hope the opening rant in my above words were seen as they are: satire in the greater sense... It was a outlay of words to stimulate discussion from EVERY angle.. I do love playing the devil's advocate and shaking it up! Let's continue this open ended discussion on where we are at in the LPFM/Priate issue... It's good for all of us.... Me included...
 
LPFM sucks
Translators blow and if you think this IS good for communties, you're smokin rope!
You guys really want radio to come to an end.
What should happen is more 50KW stations upping their power to 100KW and protection contours to be extended to 40db on all class B's and C's!
Honestly, radio preservation of signals NEEDS to be done. With all the lp's that come online...they(most) are nothing but religous satalators.....
and they seem to cause much interference. Localism=good. Preservation of heritage signals=better.
 
I can assure you, not all are in one basket... WWPO-LP is a joint venture in College/Community relations in a small coal mining town with little left from the glory days.. But, with a decent signal for 8 to 12 miles in various directions and on-line support, this little FM provides East Gibson and Pike Counties with local stuff that (news/sports) other stations lack.. From College to High School events to a ton of local festivals and gatherings, it's meeting a need.. Improving as it goes along... WYIR in Evansville (Baugh City) is giving the kids and young adults in the coffee house scene a voice with national, regional and local bands playing new rock/alternative 24/7 and is on-line, as well (for those on the outer edge of the metro)... They seem to like having their friends music played.. Ratings don't matter and can't as a LPFM, but, with this little/loyal band of listeners getting something that is theirs, it works on a low budget of fun... WYIR is also linked in a local emergency group with a locally programmed AM in Warrick County (county of license).. The Emergency Management folks at the Courthouse have a way of getting a feed to our little LPFM and the only locally programmed AM in the county (since the AM barely covers the community of license after dark and the LPFM's 45 dBU covers a major part of that county's population)... Remember the tornado of a year or so ago in Newburgh, Indiana... We stand on alert... Many are just 'on' , but these two I engineer seem to be setting well with the target..
 
If the big corporations would serve the communities they are licensed to serve, than maybe we
wouldn't need LPFM.

But since this is not the case, we do.

What are you smoking? Must be better than rope!!!! From the same plant type though!!!!
 
It is unfortunate that the LPFM licensing procedure allowed various large groups to set up satillator networks. The whole idea of the service was to provide local radio service. Obviously, there is nothing local about a satellite delivered service. When all this was going on, I called a local Catholic church that was named in an application. The Priest had no idea that they had been "set up." as an applicant. In this case, he did the right thing and had the FCC dismiss the phantom application. I'm not sure how many others knew or were aware of what went on. It does make you wonder.

Even though LPFM did not meet all of its goals, I can assure you that there are a lot of these little stations that are very good local broadcasters. Many of them have become very important parts of their respective communities. It’s not all bad.

I am not aware of any interference complaints that have been filed against any of these stations. The FCC wanted to make the licensing process simple enough for laymen to do, so they added an additional buffer zone to prevent interference to other stations. When Congress got their hands on it, they were persuaded by the NAB and NPR that third adjacent channel protection was also necessary to prevent interference to existing stations. That restriction made interference almost impossible, unless you are standing next to the LPFM's tower.

If you can document any legitimate interference from a licensed LPFM station, I suggest that you contact the station to see if the problem is real or imaginary. Remember that a local LPFM station that is on the same frequency as a distant station 150 miles away, under the FCC rules, it is not interfering with that station's signal. It is well past the distant station's protected contour and that station has no claim to the frequency at the LPFM's location. There is a difference between DX'ing and regular listening.
 
AugC said:
What should happen is more 50KW stations upping their power to 100KW and protection contours to be extended to 40db on all class B's and C's!
Honestly, radio preservation of signals NEEDS to be done. With all the lp's that come online...they(most) are nothing but religous satalators.....
and they seem to cause much interference. Localism=good. Preservation of heritage signals=better.

Wow. :eek:

All this proposal would do is eliminate even more competition from a landscape where four or five companies run 50% of our radio stations. Do you actually listen to the radio? And I'm asking you, not as a salesman or DJ or engineer, but as an actual radio listener.

Just because a station is a 'heritage' (whatever your definition is) doesn't make it good. A heritage is just as likely to be owned by Citadel or Entercomm, who couldn't care less what those calls mean. That doesn't deserve protection, IMHO. It deserves more competition.

LPFM can be a boone to a small town. It can also give a larger city an outlet for niche programming. WLEZ-LP in Jackson, Mississippi caters to a specific neighborhood (Fondren, I think) with news and talk, and plays standards -- the big boys don't find that a profitable enough format to endeavor.

With all the churches getting LPFMs, it makes me wonder sometimes... I thought LPFMs had specific rules regarding local oriented programming. Do they not? I've heard a few already, but can't tell if it's satellite-fed or not.

And, as far as localism? Pah. My small town has 3 locals -- all satellite fed. Two offer local news inserts a few times a day and one does do local high school football/basketball games, but that's it. Is that localism at its best? I can't help but remember the last time we were under a tornado warning. One station broke in to announce the warning, then went back to music. Shortly thereafter, all three stations went off the air and stayed that way most of the night. Some local content. *sigh*
 
Zach said:
With all the churches getting LPFMs, it makes me wonder sometimes... I thought LPFMs had specific rules regarding local oriented programming. Do they not? I've heard a few already, but can't tell if it's satellite-fed or not.

When you filed for an LPFM Construction Permit, there were three "Extra Points" questions to be answered on the form. They were:

1. "Established Community Presence" – If the filing organization had been in existence in the community for over two years, you got a bonus point.

2. "Proposed Operating Hours" - Applicants who pledged a minimum of 12 hours per day got a bonus point.

3. "Local Program Origination." In that case, the applicant pledged that at least eight hours per day of programming would be locally originated, and that local origination production would happen within 10 miles of the transmitting tower coordinates.

You did not have to check off any of the boxes to get a license, but applicants who did were awarded extra points. This was quite useful if there were two or more applicants for the same frequency (MX'd or Mutually Exclusive applications.) The applicant with the most points would be awarded the Construction Permit.

I know some LPFM broadcasters decided that since there was no contest for the Construction Permit, they have no obligation to honor those pledges, even though they did make them. I say "shame on them.’" It seems to me that it is a very hypocritical way to do business. The ironic thing is most of the organizations I know of that take that particular position happen to be churches. They choose to use their LPFM as a translator for a satellite delivered ministry. Most real community broadcasters want nothing to do with satellite feeds. They are much more interested in serving their community with music, news, community events and anything local that they can find. Incidentally, there are quite a few LPFM’s that are owned by churches that are also excellent community broadcasters. You just can’t make generalizations about these stations. There are really good ones, and some really bad ones.
 
Commissioner Copps, whom I consider one of the few voices of reason at the FCC, said this about localism today during the House subcommittee meeting:

"I am seeing in the last few months a noticeable shift—a growing impatience with things as they are. Whether this is motivated by examples of new programming lows, the further consolidation of news rooms and music play lists, or a new spirit of change abroad in the land, I don’t know for sure. But I do know this—whatever the reason, millions of people are no longer content just to defeat bad new media consolidation rules. There is a thirst—one that I share—for us to revisit the bad old rules that got us into this predicament in the first place."

One place to start is a complete review of the entire process of how licenses are transferred and sold and how stations are valued. As it stands now, for the most part, only corporations with the deepest pockets can obtain stations and no accountability is required from them to provide any true local programming. The Clear Channel sell off of its low cash generating properties is a prime example of this. Whole "clusters" of stations were sold to "mini conglomerates" for millions of dollars without any input from the communities they supposedly serve or any opportunity for local mom and pop broadcasters to buy them.

This has got to change.

db
 
A good "Theme Song" for our posts here would be: "I'm A Loser Baby, Why Don't You Kill Me?" ... Dedicated to Radio in general....
 
MOst of all LPFM's that I've heard...splatter on 2nd adjacents and play no "local" content. So, really, they really serve a handful of folks....that might be listening. The only good LPFM is WRPO-LP. All the ones that I have listened to are sat. fed. Very sad. There's more local content with the big wigs than that!!! C'mon folks....!!!! Didn't you hear....Clear Channel is selling off 400 plus stations!!! More mom and pops are buying them! Hopefully more "local" content. Really the spectrum is way too full. LPFM is not that bad if used properly...translators on the other hand are just plain rediculous. They really are the offenders.
 
Can't say I've heard an LPFM "splatter on 2nd adjacents", but if that is what they are doing, it isn't right and should be fixed.

I dunno what mom and pops you have in your part of the country, but around here they are -- baaa da bah! -- satellite fed 23.6 hours a day.

...and I agree that the FM band is overcrowded. Too bad there's nothing we can really do about it. The biggest offenders are, by far, religious broadcasters who took advantage of the FCC's lax rules for non-commercial content. They're not going to give up any allotments and the FCC can't exactly go back on its word and revoke all those licenses... The religious groups would have a freakin' field day trashing the big evil government if they did that.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom