FCC gives green light for geo-targeted ad-insertion on FM boosters

[Mediafrog+]

There are clueless people in some of these posts. The boosters offer a great opportunity to stations in the same way the newspaper created sections that went only to certain geographic areas.

Newspaper local supplements didn’t interfere with each other or the broader content of the publication.

You are ignoring the fact that overlapping signals on the same frequency are going to interfere with each other, producing audio hash and distortion. Boosters work in uneven terrain where there is signal blockage, but not over flat land. There will be many areas where overall reception will be severely degraded.

Capture effect can be very messy. It is not like cleanly flipping a switch from one station to another.

 

[davideduardo]

There are clueless people in some of these posts. The boosters offer a great opportunity to stations in the same way the newspaper created sections that went only to certain geographic areas.

But you don't have two newspapers jumping in and our of your hands. You either buy one or the other. The problem here is the overlap zone where both signals are trying to be captured by your radio and often flip-flop back and forth.

 

[boombox4]

Newspaper local supplements didn’t interfere with each other or the broader content of the publication.

You are ignoring the fact that overlapping signals on the same frequency are going to interfere with each other, producing audio hash and distortion. Boosters work in uneven terrain where there is signal blockage, but not over flat land. There will be many areas where overall reception will be severely degraded.

Capture effect can be very messy. It is not like cleanly flipping a switch from one station to another.

OK. Point taken. But wouldn't that already be happening normally then? Yet stations still have these boosters... So there must indeed be some benefit to having one.

 

[gr8oldies]

OK. Point taken. But wouldn't that already be happening normally then? Yet stations still have these boosters... So there must indeed be some benefit to having one.

The stations with boosters have them because of terrain shielding. This idea has them in urban/suburban areas where they can and will clash. All so they can say "your State Farm agent in West Podunk is Fred Smith" or advertise the $2.99lunch special at Joe's Bar and Grill. Commuting patterns likely take people out of their immediate neighborhoods, so the advertising to the neighborhood may not be worth it.

 

[Mediafrog+]

The stations with boosters have them because of terrain shielding. This idea has them in urban/suburban areas where they can and will clash.

I think a big problem is that those who propose this sort of thing have no experience with real world reception characteristics.

Years ago broadcast engineers also tended to be ham radio operators, DXers, or monitoring enthusiasts who had extensive firsthand knowledge about how electromagnetic waves propagate in various situations and conditions. I don’t sense that is the case anymore. They have plenty of theoretical training and knowledge, but don’t understand what happens in reality.

I’ve said this before and am saying it again: Too many engineers are book smart, but street stupid.

 

[Kelly A]

Solution in search of a problem.

 

[secondchoice]

How many stations have translators that would qualify?

 

[davideduardo]

How many stations have translators that would qualify?

This is not for translators, which are separate authorizations on a separate frequency.

Simplified version (which Michi can jump in and expend on or correct) is that this is a system where a station reaches its coverage area with a set of "supposedly" non-overlapping low power signals withing the licensed coverage area that insert localized ads a few minutes an hour.

 

[Kelly A]

This is not for translators, which are separate authorizations on a separate frequency.

Simplified version (which Michi can jump in and expend on or correct) is that this is a system where a station reaches its coverage area with a set of "supposedly" non-overlapping low power signals withing the licensed coverage area that insert localized ads a few minutes an hour.

This is an example of how things have changed at the Commission. Back when many of the decision-makers were actual engineers, not lawyers, some hair-brained idea like this wouldn't have gained any traction. But, because increasing numbers of staff are non-technical folks, combined with the disinterest in forms of traditional media, junk like this slips through.

 

[davideduardo]

This is an example of how things have changed at the Commission. Back when many of the decision-makers were actual engineers, not lawyers, some hair-brained idea like this wouldn't have gained any traction. But, because increasing numbers of staff are non-technical folks, combined with the disinterest in forms of traditional media, junk like this slips through.

This is the same issue we have all too often with radio engineers. Loads of people who can set up servers and digital audio in the studio, but fewer and fewer who can deal competently and creatively with anything that involves RF, modulation, antennas, towers, generators, and on and on.

I still have a viable RF burn mark on my left hand from fiddling with my ATU about 60 years ago. Today, I'd have to explain what "ATU" means to some "engineers".

 

[rfburns]

This is the same issue we have all too often with radio engineers. Loads of people who can set up servers and digital audio in the studio, but fewer and fewer who can deal competently and creatively with anything that involves RF, modulation, antennas, towers, generators, and on and on.

I still have a viable RF burn mark on my left hand from fiddling with my ATU about 60 years ago. Today, I'd have to explain what "ATU" means to some "engineers".

I resemble that remark

As to your first paragraph - absolutely true - plenty of IT types but fewer that also understand RF. I've had to explain more than once why you can't just hang a translator antenna and coax on a base insulated AM tower.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

This is the same issue we have all too often with radio engineers. Loads of people who can set up servers and digital audio in the studio, but fewer and fewer who can deal competently and creatively with anything that involves RF, modulation, antennas, towers, generators, and on and on.

I still have a viable RF burn mark on my left hand from fiddling with my ATU about 60 years ago. Today, I'd have to explain what "ATU" means to some "engineers".

im the opposite.. im much more comfortable with RF based stuff here than I am IT.

 

[secondchoice]

This is not for translators, which are separate authorizations on a separate frequency.

Simplified version (which Michi can jump in and expend on or correct) is that this is a system where a station reaches its coverage area with a set of "supposedly" non-overlapping low power signals withing the licensed coverage area that insert localized ads a few minutes an hour.

Sorry I thought they were "on channel" translators.

But still how many stations have on channel FM boasters? Would it be in "B" country, somewhere that has large mountain(s) in the middle of the market where sacrificing power for antenna height wouldn't work?

Financially I guess a really sharp sales team could could sell it at a discount.

 

[Kelly A]

Sorry I thought they were "on channel" translators.

Transmissions on the same frequency as the primary station are called 'boosters'.

Financially I guess a really sharp sales team could could sell it at a discount.

Given the depressed advertising environment, the cost of building out the boosters will likely never be recovered in advertising.
Not only is this proposal a solution in search of a problem, but it's also about fifteen years too late.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Sorry I thought they were "on channel" translators.

But still how many stations have on channel FM boasters? Would it be in "B" country, somewhere that has large mountain(s) in the middle of the market where sacrificing power for antenna height wouldn't work?

Financially I guess a really sharp sales team could could sell it at a discount.

they can be anywhere.

I worked for a station in Western PA that had one.

Im doing work for a station in SE WY that has one.

 

[bossbill]

These boosters are on the same channel as the mother station.

Yup, that's why it's called a "booster".

 

[bossbill]

I'll go out on a limb and pontificate that zonecasting will have a very short shelf life. No matter how much one attempts to synchronize, moving vehicles particularly will experience issues.

 

[radiofan2023]

I'll go out on a limb and pontificate that zonecasting will have a very short shelf life. No matter how much one attempts to synchronize, moving vehicles particularly will experience issues.

Will there be a delay like when switching from an HD signal to a regular signal?

 

[davideduardo]

Will there be a delay like when switching from an HD signal to a regular signal?

That is a very good "Michi Question". How will HD work with the time issues vs. distance?

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

There are only a few specific situations I could foresee zonecasting being useful:

1) Urban cores that are covered by a transmitter 10+ miles out (thinking of downtown Seattle or Everett, WA) where the main signal gets hit hard with multipath.

2) Places such as the Wasatch Front and their relatively recent move-ins that are physically terrain shielded from their target market (these stations already have non-zonecast boosters in place…and frequently have issues keeping the main transmitter on)

I’m curious how the end result of the experiment in West Palm/Broward Counties with Zonecasting (on WRMF) fared. The terrain down there is flat as a pancake besides a Mt Trashmore, and FM gets pretty squirrelly in those parts with tropical weather, pirates, and a plethora of low-powered stuff.