FCC Grilling KUSF/KDFC LMAers

[uncamark]

Based on reports from several (admittedly biased) sources that the KUSF studios on the USF campus have been "dismantled," the FCC has sent USF and potential owners CPRN a detailed inquiry about program origination, USF participation in programming decisions, lotsa documents, accounting of donations and underwriting and asking whether the "Public Service Operating Agreement" (which the transfer is being called instead of an LMA) is legal and is allowing otherwise-banned third-party fundraising:

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...ends-pointed-inquiry-to-parties-in-kusf-san-f

And all of a sudden, the slam dunk station transfer is less of a slam dunk. You gotta admit that the Save KUSF people have been dogged in their pursuit of violations.

 

[Kent]

I don't know that it's any less of a slam dunk. It's more likely to just be a delay!

 

[Bongwater]

I can see Save KUSF's argument.

First, the way the University of San Fransisco tried to sell the KUSF license to CPRN without allowing the KUSF staff, students/volunteers and the public an adequate time frame to lodge any complaints PRIOR to the format switch. Or to make an offer to purchase the station outright was totally wrong.

I think USF had GROSSLY underestimated the value of KUSF to it's listeners, volunteers and students. If it wasn't valuable to these people, there wouldn't be such a passionate reaction from them. I think USF could have handled this a lot better than they did.

 

[DavidKaye]

First, the way the University of San Fransisco tried to sell the KUSF license to CPRN without allowing the KUSF staff, students/volunteers and the public an adequate time frame to lodge any complaints PRIOR to the format switch. Or to make an offer to purchase the station outright was totally wrong.

But anybody in the know, especially the KUSF manager, knew that USF wasn't particularly interested in keeping KUSF. An offer could have been made at any time and it seems that USF would have accepted it. Why the manager didn't get a consortium of people together and approach USF is anybody's guess. I'd say it was laziness on his part.

I think USF had GROSSLY underestimated the value of KUSF to it's listeners, volunteers and students. If it wasn't valuable to these people, there wouldn't be such a passionate reaction from them. I think USF could have handled this a lot better than they did.

Most students likely had no idea that USF even owned a radio station. And this is the 10s, not the 80s. The days of KUSF as a musical trendsetter are long over. As to value, suddenly we see posts about the value of "Chinese Star Radio", which previously people at KUSF wished would just go away because it always meant the end of the music day and the start of public affairs and foreign language programming. I think the people who are passionate about saving KUSF are only passionate about their memory of it in its heyday and probably hadn't listened to it for years.

 

[uncamark]

Most students likely had no idea that USF even owned a radio station. And this is the 10s, not the 80s. The days of KUSF as a musical trendsetter are long over. As to value, suddenly we see posts about the value of "Chinese Star Radio", which previously people at KUSF wished would just go away because it always meant the end of the music day and the start of public affairs and foreign language programming. I think the people who are passionate about saving KUSF are only passionate about their memory of it in its heyday and probably hadn't listened to it for years.

Not to mention the claim of "educational value" to the entire schedule and the aspersions cast on KDFC's programming as "non-educational" (which, if taken to the logical extreme, would consider almost all non-com music programming, particularly the EMF stations, as "non-educational"). I just don't see the educational value in an hour of death metal (and "exposure to music otherwise not heard on San Francisco radio" isn't "educational programming").

Meanwhile, I can just imagine the Mohawked Saturday midday board op at KUSF enraged that he had to babysit the Metropolitan Opera broadcast and wanting to play punk rock over it, like the two KTRU DJs who protested Rice demanding live sports coverage by playing punk rock over a live broadcast (which was during their normal show) instead of being good board ops.

Since admittedly I don't want to go through archive.org pages, did KUSF do on-air pledge drives and run underwriting announcements (other than the Toll Brothers announcements on the Met broadcast, of course)? The lack of on-air fundraising seems to be a constant with KTRU and WRVU and I'm wondering if KUSF was also mostly activity fee-funded.

 

[klewis]

hi, i'm new to the board, but have been volunteering to save kusf. jennifer waits has done good, unbiased reporting for radio survivor. IMO that is the best source.
it seems to me that KDFC is getting a bum steer here, too. the call letters have been parked in angwin. an application to change 90.3 to KOSC has been filed. south bay listeners and long-standing advertisers are left high & dry. i'd be curious to know if anyone sees it differently, but my take is that it is KDFC in name only with just a few hosts and robo-programming all available for sale on Archivmusic.com with CPRN getting an 8% kickback.

as for KUSF, prof. dorothy kidd is the source for educational value, which seems square. fundraising wasn't allowed for the most part. more than 20% of KUSF programming was classical (#'s vary) -- but for me the real line is keeping the NCE license in SF. this deal puts another south bay station at risk. dismantles KDFC while duping the listeners, erodes KZSU, and KALX and there's no upside for the Bay. lemme know what i'm seeing wrong, otherwise I'd like to see KDFC back on 102.1 where it was top 7 and 90.3 become an asset to the SF community. NCE licenses are valuable and a hugely important and undervalued resource which civic-minded folks should care about, no?

 

[recto101]

hi, i'm new to the board, but have been volunteering to save kusf. jennifer waits has done good, unbiased reporting for radio survivor. IMO that is the best source.
it seems to me that KDFC is getting a bum steer here, too. the call letters have been parked in angwin. an application to change 90.3 to KOSC has been filed. south bay listeners and long-standing advertisers are left high & dry. i'd be curious to know if anyone sees it differently, but my take is that it is KDFC in name only with just a few hosts and robo-programming all available for sale on Archivmusic.com with CPRN getting an 8% kickback.

as for KUSF, prof. dorothy kidd is the source for educational value, which seems square. fundraising wasn't allowed for the most part. more than 20% of KUSF programming was classical (#'s vary) -- but for me the real line is keeping the NCE license in SF. this deal puts another south bay station at risk. dismantles KDFC while duping the listeners, erodes KZSU, and KALX and there's no upside for the Bay. lemme know what i'm seeing wrong, otherwise I'd like to see KDFC back on 102.1 where it was top 7 and 90.3 become an asset to the SF community. NCE licenses are valuable and a hugely important and undervalued resource which civic-minded folks should care about, no?

Well KDFC can't go back to 102.1FM when entercom has KUFX and is doing well in the rating where KUFX in the San Jose books get a 6.7 on 98.5 fm and 102.1 gets a 2.6 in the latest books.
all I can see is that KDFC on 89.9 in Napa County gets a .6 to 1.0 meaning that they are tied with KUIC in Fairfield since the signals that KDFC are on targets a small audience. when KDFC was on 102.1 they were tied with KFOG most of the time when I saw those books on them prior of the KUFX takeover on 102.1.

 

[Geek-O-Rama]

Stations come and go. When there are few to no listeners, there is no impact and the station is going to be toast. Did anyone besides the volunteers even know KUSF existed? This board is full of people who mourn the old KFRC but know it isn't coming back either. Times change.
Personally i think colleges are remiss in not using their radio stations licenses to train students and provide local content to the community. USF should be held accountable for that and the volunteer staff that could have been using students more but didn't. For whatever reasons.
But San Francisco needs to keep and protect KDFC and keep classcial music on the radio. It had listeners and still has them, lots more than KUSF ever dreamed, but not enough for commercial success.
The staff stayed on, not because they are getting rich but because they are committed to the format and the community.
The reality is that if the protesters get the volunteer KUSF back, the city will lose classical music on FM radio. And previous posters were correct, Entercom isn't going to put KDFC back on 102.1.
PROTECT KDFC

 

[recto101]

and I also agree that KSJO won't return since its Chinese now.

 

[DavidKaye]

it seems to me that KDFC is getting a bum steer here, too. the call letters have been parked in angwin.

What do you mean "parked" in Angwin? The KNDL callsign was changed to KDFC and they are running the KDFC format. That's not parking; that's operation.

an application to change 90.3 to KOSC has been filed. south bay listeners and long-standing advertisers are left high & dry.

Huh? 90.3 is no better or worse in the Southbay than it ever was. And what long-standing advertisers did they have? 90.3 is a non-comm and thus by definition does not have advertisers.

i'd be curious to know if anyone sees it differently, but my take is that it is KDFC in name only with just a few hosts and robo-programming all available for sale on Archivmusic.com with CPRN getting an 8% kickback.

The new KDFC not only has live DJs but they added a new DJ just a few months ago. Pay attention!

as for KUSF, prof. dorothy kidd is the source for educational value, which seems square. fundraising wasn't allowed for the most part. more than 20% of KUSF programming was classical (#'s vary) --

20% of KUSF programming was never classical. They played new wave and various current music from midnight to 6pm and from 6pm to midnight and on the weekends played a variety of programming, which was largely public affairs discussions and lectures.

but for me the real line is keeping the NCE license in SF. this deal puts another south bay station at risk.

KDFC was never a southbay station. It was originally licensed to Sausalito then re-licensed to SF in the 1950s. Its intention and obligation was only to serve SF, which it did very well.

dismantles KDFC while duping the listeners,

Duping its listeners? Duping how? I listened to the waning days of the old KDFC and there were no promises made that weren't fulfilled. In fact the KDFC programming today is broader than it was when it was forced to be a commercial classical top 40 station.

erodes KZSU, and KALX and there's no upside for the Bay.

How so? Nothing currently is changing about KUSF. There's a proposal to move KUSF further north, but that's not going to interfere with either KZSU or KALX. I still think it's a stupid move given that they already get good Northbay coverage from 89.9.

 

[Bongwater]

First, the way the University of San Fransisco tried to sell the KUSF license to CPRN without allowing the KUSF staff, students/volunteers and the public an adequate time frame to lodge any complaints PRIOR to the format switch. Or to make an offer to purchase the station outright was totally wrong.

But anybody in the know, especially the KUSF manager, knew that USF wasn't particularly interested in keeping KUSF. An offer could have been made at any time and it seems that USF would have accepted it. Why the manager didn't get a consortium of people together and approach USF is anybody's guess. I'd say it was laziness on his part.

I think USF had GROSSLY underestimated the value of KUSF to it's listeners, volunteers and students. If it wasn't valuable to these people, there wouldn't be such a passionate reaction from them. I think USF could have handled this a lot better than they did.

Most students likely had no idea that USF even owned a radio station. And this is the 10s, not the 80s. The days of KUSF as a musical trendsetter are long over. As to value, suddenly we see posts about the value of "Chinese Star Radio", which previously people at KUSF wished would just go away because it always meant the end of the music day and the start of public affairs and foreign language programming. I think the people who are passionate about saving KUSF are only passionate about their memory of it in its heyday and probably hadn't listened to it for years.

Well, USF had never formally made any announcement that KUSF was for sale BEFORE the CPRN takeover (whether USF itself particularly cared about KUSF or not is a non-issue.) That alone could have gotten the wheels in motion for KUSF staff/volunteers/listeners to gather funding to purchase the station and generated less bad publicity for USF. CPRN came in and made an offer, station (almost) sold. And it was done very quietly, behind everyone's backs. That's what pissed the KUSF folks off.

Formats change abruptly all the time in commercial radio. It doesn't help make people any more confident in the medium, but non-commercial radio is an entirely different beast altogether. Especially when they're serving programming for more selective types that's very difficult to find elsewhere. The internet (or some derivative thereof) may be the future of radio, but for now, radio still matters. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

Regardless of Chinese Star Radio, the death metal and other genres KUSF prominently featured, the educational value of KUSF was this: It was run by USF students and community volunteers who BELIEVE in radio enough to try their hand in it. And they gained journalism and on-air production skills whilst introducing the public to different types of radio programming they could not hear elsewhere. So KUSF was a win-win for everybody involved.

You could settle this thing by offering, say, KTRB to the Save KUSF people and with the exception of those who will complain about the AM signal (as if DIY lo-fi indie punk sounds any better on FM), it's better than nothing. The FAR wider signal coverage on 860 kHz alone would make it worth it.

But on the flipside, there's also a 50,000 watt power bill........

 

[recto101]

I like KDFC on 89.9 better than KDFC on 102.1 at least theres Opera and more symphony played on the 89.9 KDFC compared to 102.1 fm. on 102.1 KDFC there was more Chamber music and Soft piano on the playlists. By the way I like to listen to KUFX 102.1 in the Afternoons for Big Rick (Former KUSF Staff). and Sharks games on 102.1.

 

[DavidKaye]

Well, USF had never formally made any announcement that KUSF was for sale BEFORE the CPRN takeover (whether USF itself particularly cared about KUSF or not is a non-issue.)

Owners never announce that their stations are sale. They just don't. This is true all across business. You don't know that the corner bar was for sale until the change of license notice appears on the window. Owners just don't show their cards. Why not? Well, for one, if you tell people your business is for sale it tends to drive down the value of the business.

That alone could have gotten the wheels in motion for KUSF staff/volunteers/listeners to gather funding to purchase the station and generated less bad publicity for USF. CPRN came in and made an offer, station (almost) sold. And it was done very quietly, behind everyone's backs. That's what pissed the KUSF folks off.

Sorry, but the KUSF staff has no interest in the transaction unless they put value on the table. Where was manager Steve Runyon in all this? Certainly he knew what was going on with KUSF. If he didn't know that the sale had been finalized at least he knew that USF had been losing interest in KUSF. He could have built a consortium of folks to put up money and approach USF, but that wasn't done.

Formats change abruptly all the time in commercial radio. It doesn't help make people any more confident in the medium, but non-commercial radio is an entirely different beast altogether. Especially when they're serving programming for more selective types that's very difficult to find elsewhere.

Nobody at KUSF cared about the "other" programming from 6 to midnight. They cared only about their DJ shifts. Face it. Nobody misses Chinese Star Radio, except maybe the few dozen people who actually listened to it. The uproar about losing KUSF has nothing to do with the public service part of KUSF and everything to do with entrenched DJs losing their shifts. That was one of the things that drove me out of broadcasting: the chutzpah.

The internet (or some derivative thereof) may be the future of radio, but for now, radio still matters. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

Once again, we are geeks; we do NOT represent the average listener at all. The average listener does not know the callsigns of the stations they listen to, nor the DJs, nor the number of spots per hour unless they're excessive. They don't who owns the station (except they've read that Clear Channel owns "everything"), and generally they don't care. They want programming that fits their needs. For the most part radio listener needs can be broken down into two camps: (1) people who want comfortable bedroom slipper entertainment, and (2) people who want news and news/talk.

Regardless of Chinese Star Radio, the death metal and other genres KUSF prominently featured, the educational value of KUSF was this: It was run by USF students and community volunteers who BELIEVE in radio enough to try their hand in it.

Running a radio station in order to train students or to give volunteers something to do is NOT a reason to own a radio station. The FCC has actually opined on this matter. Radio broadcasting is supposed to exist to serve the public interest, convenience, or necessity. Show me some actually listenership figures on KUSF and then we can talk about how they might have served any of those 3 issues.

You could settle this thing by offering, say, KTRB to the Save KUSF people and with the exception of those who will complain about the AM signal (as if DIY lo-fi indie punk sounds any better on FM), it's better than nothing. The FAR wider signal coverage on 860 kHz alone would make it worth it.

Hey, why not talk to Steve Runyon about this. Given your interest in the matter you probably have contact info for him.

But on the flipside, there's also a 50,000 watt power bill........

Probably closer to 100kw. Radio transmitters are very big heaters.

 

[TomJF]

I like KDFC on 89.9 better than KDFC on 102.1 at least theres Opera and more symphony played on the 89.9 KDFC compared to 102.1 fm. on 102.1 KDFC there was more Chamber music and Soft piano on the playlists. By the way I like to listen to KUFX 102.1 in the Afternoons for Big Rick (Former KUSF Staff). and Sharks games on 102.1.

I agree that the KDFC is playing more variety and less "pop classic" material than it did when it was commercial, and that is an improvement. I have been listening to it more, in fact I have bought an internet radio to do so (being east of the Oakland Hills, 102.1 was spotty before and the new frequencies are all but unlistenable).

 

[klewis]

it seems to me that KDFC is getting a bum steer here, too. the call letters have been parked in angwin.

What do you mean "parked" in Angwin? The KNDL callsign was changed to KDFC and they are running the KDFC format. That's not parking; that's operation.

an application to change 90.3 to KOSC has been filed. south bay listeners and long-standing advertisers are left high & dry.

dunno. here's an old post:
Title: Re: FCC Says "F-U" To KUSF
Post by: Mark Jeffries on March 22, 2011, 09:43:55 AM
Tom Taylor reports that CPRN wants to park the KDFC calls at KNDL, while changing KUSF's calls to KOSC. Interesting (and of course, if the unlikely happens and the sale isn't approved, perhaps no call change, although I still say that if that happens USF will give the KUSF radicals the middle finger and arrange for a long-term LMA with CPRN.

Facts are the application for the call letter change to KOSC for 90.3 has been filed. KDFC call letters are now @ KNDL, Angwin. KDFC has a statement saying two brokers are shopping a South Bay station, and KZSU and KALX have written the FCC to speak to the impact on their signals. I'm way over my head and could have it all wrong, but that all seems verifiable.

Huh? 90.3 is no better or worse in the Southbay than it ever was. And what long-standing advertisers did they have? 90.3 is a non-comm and thus by definition does not have advertisers.

i'd be curious to know if anyone sees it differently, but my take is that it is KDFC in name only with just a few hosts and robo-programming all available for sale on Archivmusic.com with CPRN getting an 8% kickback.

The new KDFC not only has live DJs but they added a new DJ just a few months ago. Pay attention!

as for KUSF, prof. dorothy kidd is the source for educational value, which seems square. fundraising wasn't allowed for the most part. more than 20% of KUSF programming was classical (#'s vary) --

20% of KUSF programming was never classical. They played new wave and various current music from midnight to 6pm and from 6pm to midnight and on the weekends played a variety of programming, which was largely public affairs discussions and lectures.

but for me the real line is keeping the NCE license in SF. this deal puts another south bay station at risk.

KDFC was never a southbay station. It was originally licensed to Sausalito then re-licensed to SF in the 1950s. Its intention and obligation was only to serve SF, which it did very well.

dismantles KDFC while duping the listeners,

Duping its listeners? Duping how? I listened to the waning days of the old KDFC and there were no promises made that weren't fulfilled. In fact the KDFC programming today is broader than it was when it was forced to be a commercial classical top 40 station.

erodes KZSU, and KALX and there's no upside for the Bay.

How so? Nothing currently is changing about KUSF. There's a proposal to move KUSF further north, but that's not going to interfere with either KZSU or KALX. I still think it's a stupid move given that they already get good Northbay coverage from 89.9.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

If you haven't driven around to listen to compare the signals on 90.3 and 89.9 in Marin County, San Francisco, and Berkeley-Oakland, where the bulk of their audience probably lives, you won't understand why KDFC need to improve the transmitter location for 90.3FM. The new transmitter site proposed for 90.3 is the old one where 102.1 resides, but with a lot less power. For those not in the know, Mt Beacon is between Sausalito and Mill Valley, adjacent to Hwy 101. When KDFC aired on 102.1 from that location with high wattage, it was the strongest radio signal in Mill Valley, and got a very nice signal for classical music into even the canyons and crevaces where people who like classical music live in high priced homes, and they can probably afford to pay handsomely to help support the station. However, neither signal on 90.3 or 89.9 puts in a signal worth listening to on a home stereo or kitchen radio in most of the areas that used to hear classical music loud and clear on 102.1FM, due to terrain, distance from the transmitter site, and wattage.

When KDFC moves ahead with improving the 90.3 signal coverage beyond the Haight and Inner Sunset districts, the more reliable the listener/contributor base for KDFC will become. The Save KUSF distraction just depletes energy from having a fine arts station with a signal that more people can rely on.

Haven't the "Save KUSF" volunteers ever heard of KPOO? Or KPFA/KPFB? Why don't they propose hosting an airshift on those stations? Perhaps KPFA can show some "solidarity" with the dispossed and perpetually jilted volunteers and split off the 89.3 signal part of the time from simulcasting 94.1 (which does seem rather wasteful to me, if you're interested in "sustainability" and specrtum efficiency.) Put some college rock on KPFB, and Chinese dissident programming, too. Use it for your "regular" hosts on 94.1 to keep their usual shift when you pre-empt them for special emphasis programming, and they might not fight you as much when you ask them to do something. (OK, that's wishful thinking.) Provide an "alternative" to the "alternatives" on KPFA on 89.3 KPFB. Or else drive down the Peninsula to get a slot on KFJC or KKUP and let KDFC survive as the sole fine arts station for at least part of the San Francisco market.

 

[DavidKaye]

If you haven't driven around to listen to compare the signals on 90.3 and 89.9 in Marin County, San Francisco, and Berkeley-Oakland, where the bulk of their audience probably lives, you won't understand why KDFC need to improve the transmitter location for 90.3FM.

KDFC 89.9 is already good in Marin, Solano, and Sonoma Counties. They really don't need to move 90.3 there when it could stand to be moved south where it could reach more listeners in the central and south Bay Area.

However, neither signal on 90.3 or 89.9 puts in a signal worth listening to on a home stereo or kitchen radio in most of the areas that used to hear classical music loud and clear on 102.1FM, due to terrain, distance from the transmitter site, and wattage.

People who want to listen will listen; plus, when you're at home you have the luxury of Internet streaming. It's really car radios where KDFC needs to be heard, and 89.9 does it quite well, actually. About 3 hours ago I was in Daly City and got 89.9 decently. I then drove into SF and crossed the Bay Bridge. Oddly enough, while KQED got multipath, KDFC 89.9 sounded just fine.

Haven't the "Save KUSF" volunteers ever heard of KPOO? Or KPFA/KPFB? Why don't they propose hosting an airshift on those stations?

Or KALW or KFJC or KALX or KPDO or KOHL or KCEA or or or or...

 

[recto101]

If you haven't driven around to listen to compare the signals on 90.3 and 89.9 in Marin County, San Francisco, and Berkeley-Oakland, where the bulk of their audience probably lives, you won't understand why KDFC need to improve the transmitter location for 90.3FM.

KDFC 89.9 is already good in Marin, Solano, and Sonoma Counties. They really don't need to move 90.3 there when it could stand to be moved south where it could reach more listeners in the central and south Bay Area.

However, neither signal on 90.3 or 89.9 puts in a signal worth listening to on a home stereo or kitchen radio in most of the areas that used to hear classical music loud and clear on 102.1FM, due to terrain, distance from the transmitter site, and wattage.

People who want to listen will listen; plus, when you're at home you have the luxury of Internet streaming. It's really car radios where KDFC needs to be heard, and 89.9 does it quite well, actually. About 3 hours ago I was in Daly City and got 89.9 decently. I then drove into SF and crossed the Bay Bridge. Oddly enough, while KQED got multipath, KDFC 89.9 sounded just fine.

Haven't the "Save KUSF" volunteers ever heard of KPOO? Or KPFA/KPFB? Why don't they propose hosting an airshift on those stations?

Or KALW or KFJC or KALX or KPDO or KOHL or KCEA or or or or...

Why not move 90.3 FM Xtmr to the San Bruno Mountains to improve the signal to San Jose? I heard that San Bruno Mountains tended to do better in sending signals to San Jose than Mount Beacon and Mount Sutro.

 

[joefriday]

The KUSF 90.3 fm studios at Phelan Hall on the USF campus have been dismantled - there can be no bias in stating this fact. Equipment was removed and construction of dormitories has begun on the premises, you can go there and see for yourself: 2130 Fulton St. SF, CA 94117

Based on reports from several (admittedly biased) sources that the KUSF studios on the USF campus have been "dismantled," the FCC has sent USF and potential owners CPRN a detailed inquiry about program origination, USF participation in programming decisions, lotsa documents, accounting of donations and underwriting and asking whether the "Public Service Operating Agreement" (which the transfer is being called instead of an LMA) is legal and is allowing otherwise-banned third-party fundraising:

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...ends-pointed-inquiry-to-parties-in-kusf-san-f

And all of a sudden, the slam dunk station transfer is less of a slam dunk. You gotta admit that the Save KUSF people have been dogged in their pursuit of violations.

 

[weav]

Why not move 90.3 FM Xtmr to the San Bruno Mountains to improve the signal to San Jose? I heard that San Bruno Mountains tended to do better in sending signals to San Jose than Mount Beacon and Mount Sutro.

KZSU (90.1, first adjacent) is already fighting the move to Beacon for interference reasons... imagine what it
'd be like moving to Mt San Bruno...