FCC inquiry - HD on Sattelite Radios

[TheBigA]

Who ultimately is going to pay for it? Us.

Not unless you buy a satellite receiver. If you don't, it won't matter.

 

[barman]

This might make sense after the Ibiquity patent runs out. Before then I don't believe the FCC will legally mandate all receiver manufacturers to pay a patent fee.

 

[jhardis]

This might make sense after the Ibiquity patent runs out. Before then I don't believe the FCC will legally mandate all receiver manufacturers to pay a patent fee.

Why not? You pay patent licensing fees all the time for similar products. For example, NTSC color television was invented in the early 1950s, and people paid patent royalties on it until about 1970. You can't buy an ATSC (digital) television today without paying patent royalties. RCA itself was formed in 1919 to pool the patents of General Electric, Westinghouse, Western Electric, and United Fruit.

The problem with IBOC radio is that what iBiquity is licensing is not simply patents, but rather a bundle of rights including trade secrets (secret "know-how"). There is no time limit on trade secrets as there is with patents -- they never "run out."

This business about the FCC adopting a secret standard -- with an inherent monopoly and a perpetual royalty stream -- is new and unprecedented, and I've complained vociferously about it.

 

[Savage]

While PT Barnum famously declared "there's a sucker born every minute," the resounding marketplace failure of HD Radio bears eloquent witness to the common sense of most radio people. I find the rejection of this scam refreshing and reassuring.

Personally: even if HD Radio worked acceptably from a technical viewpoint and didn't cause unacceptable self-interference to its own stations and adjacent-channel problems for others, I happen to believe the system would fail precisely for this reason.

We're Americans. We were born and reared in freedom and regard it as a God-given right, not a favor bestowed by Big Government at its own pleasure and subject to revocation. iBiquity/Alliance and the HD Debacle of 2002-2008 is a textbook example of the evil that a corrupt team of Big Government and Big Business can unleash on people. Whether it's Bob Strew-Bull, David Rehr-End or T. Boone Pickens trying to sell us the scam-du-jour, we should always be mindful of Jefferson's admonition: "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

Let's all stay awake, for Pete's sake. And never be afraid to defend what's important to you and others.

 

[pocket-radio]

Isn’t this still America? Companies who manufacture radio receivers still have the right to decided what technologies they want to sell based on market demands and their ability to make money. Many manufactures all ready sell and included support for MP3, USB, CD, DVD, Satellite Am/FM and HD.

The FCC should just mandate the end of AM/FM in 10 years for a total conversion to HD. And make converters and coupons available like they did for TV.

If the system is that good what’ stopping them? Maybe the FCC has doubts too.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

The FCC should just mandate the end of AM/FM in 10 years for a total conversion to HD. And make converters and coupons available like they did for TV.

If the system is that good what’ stopping them? Maybe the FCC has doubts too.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

--TV broadcasters were given an extra channel, on a temporary basis, to initiate DTV operations. After 2/17/09, they must darken one channel and turn in that license. HD radio uses (in theory, obviously not in practice) the same channel as its analog counterpart.

--There is, from the consumer's POV, a tangible benefit to DTV, because many stores have trouble keeping the sets in stock. Consumers have apparently seen little or no benefit from HD radio...not enough to prevent the receivers from being returned and/or thrown into the close-out bins.

--People don't generally own nearly as many TVs as they do radios. You're talking about getting enough radios or converters into the marketplace to compete with 800-million-plus analog radios, which in your plan would go silent on a certain date.

--DTV signals don't interfere with their analog counterparts on adjacent channels. As for HD radio, Bob Savage and other AM operators have made it abundantly clear that despite iBiquity's and the FCC's head-in-the-sand attitudes, AM-HD does interfere at distances of hundreds or thousands of miles.

At the rate HD radios are selling, waiting ten years would be pointless. The critical mass of HD radios in the hands of consumers simply won't exist after that time.

 

[JJS]

Who else offers satellite radio besides XM-Sirius?

Dish, DirecTV and DMX.

Oh, so a monopoly is when one entity does the job a little better than the others. But of course. Your posts are a window on the entitlement culture of elite mainstream media. Its ideal: cradle-to-grave, womb-to-tomb security for failed technologies, because big government knows better than the marketplace.

 

[TheBigA]

Dish, DirecTV and DMX.

They are not seen as competitors and none of those companies were included in the DOJ or FCC hearings on the issue.

They are not licensed by the FCC to operate as satellite radio companies as Sirius and XM are.

Oh, so a monopoly is when one entity does the job a little better than the others.

That's not MY definition of a monopoly, no.

Your posts are a window on the entitlement culture of elite mainstream media. Its ideal: cradle-to-grave, womb-to-tomb security for failed technologies, because big government knows better than the marketplace.

What are you talking about? Sounds like you've been watching way too much Fox News.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

If you have Satellite radio you sure don't need HD Radio.

Most of us subscribed to get away from terrestrial radio and it's dull sameness.

Once you have feasted on satellite's many offerings HD radio programming doesn't even make for a good snack.

 

[TheBigA]

If you have Satellite radio you sure don't need HD Radio.

Most of us subscribed to get away from terrestrial radio and it's dull sameness.

Once you have feasted on satellite's many offerings HD radio programming doesn't even make for a good snack.

That's not the issue. The issue is that the two companies merged, and the FCC is looking for some payback. By merging, the two companies have broken their agreement, made when they got their licenses, that they would never merge. There are only two licenses available, and both of them are now held by the same company.

If you are a satellite subscriber, and you choose not to listen to HD, you have that choice.

 

[TheBigA]

Isn’t this still America? Companies who manufacture radio receivers still have the right to decided what technologies they want to sell based on market demands and their ability to make money.

No those are not the only criteria. The government sets the standards by which these receivers are manufactured.

However, those companies are free to either manufacture radios or not. If they don't like the rules, they can leave that part of the business to someone else.

 

[TheBigA]

We're Americans. We were born and reared in freedom and regard it as a God-given right, not a favor bestowed by Big Government at its own pleasure and subject to revocation.

Actually it is, and we have millions of people in jail who can testify to that fact. So it IS subject to revocation.

The government technically protects your right to operate on your assigned frequency, and others are not free to simply do the same without first getting permission from the government. Not a lot of freedom there, and there are a lot of anarchists in this country who resent your ability to own a radio station, viewing it as a denial of their freedom of speech.

I'm not saying this as an attack on you, or to start an argument, but there are hundreds of anarchist web sites who advocate pirate radio as the ultimate in freedom of speech, and see your operating within the law as the enemy. You have a right that they don't, and in some cases, can't have.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

If you are a satellite subscriber, and you choose not to listen to HD, you have that choice.

But, if iBiquity has its way, I'll be forced to pay for it as part of the cost of a satellite receiver. That's a choice I won't have if this goes through.

 

[TheBigA]

If you are a satellite subscriber, and you choose not to listen to HD, you have that choice.

But, if iBiquity has its way, I'll be forced to pay for it as part of the cost of a satellite receiver.

Not necessarily. I agree with you: Why should the consumer be penalized? There are many other ways to handle the cost.

 

[tomservo]

Excuse me..who's the one asking the government to sanction their monopoly?

That would be iBiquity - after all, who else offers digital terrestrial broadcast radio in the US?

FMeXtra has virtually no radios for sale and only a few stations running the system. HD is a defacto monopoly.

Who else offers satellite radio besides XM-Sirius?

No one, although there are a myriad of other mobile media options. And that's why the FCC allowed its own rules to be broken and let the two SDARS companies merge.

Why should iBiquity get a piece of the satellite pie? Why isn't the FCC mandating HD in every iPod, too? If the HD alliance wants equality, that's the target they should be painting, not satellite.

 

[Savage]

HD won't work in iPods or other small portable media. The power consumption is too high. You'd have to tote around a Sears DieHard with quad-ought cables connected to your iPod (disclaimer for the sense-of-humor impaired: slight exaggeration to produce reader smiles.) That's yet another technical problem in the endless list plaguing HD Radio. Every receiver is essentially a computer CPU, since the whole platform was designed by computer geeks, not radio people.

 

[TheBigA]

No one, although there are a myriad of other mobile media options. And that's why the FCC allowed its own rules to be broken and let the two SDARS companies merge.

But at the same time, they've issued this inquiry about HD on satellite receivers, so clearly they're looking for some payback. HD is having a hard time getting on the dashboard. Neither is having much success with consumers, although they'd each tell you otherwise.

Why should iBiquity get a piece of the satellite pie? Why isn't the FCC mandating HD in every iPod, too? If the HD alliance wants equality, that's the target they should be painting, not satellite.

First of all, the FCC doesn't regulate iPods. So they can't make such a mandate. If they could, they'd mandate iPods to carry AM/FM.

But why satellite? Beacuse, as you say, they sought to break the rules. That opened the door. Had they not made that request of the FCC, I doubt very much that the FCC would have ever made such a suggestion.

Also, just because the FCC is seeking comments doesn't necessarily mean they've made up their mind. This is part of the new "glasnost" at the Commission where they look for input on a lot of things, perhaps to evade criticism from Congress.

 

[TheBigA]

HD won't work in iPods or other small portable media. The power consumption is too high.

Didn't know that. Perhaps explains why there's no portable yet. Also because the chip is too big, no?

 

[jhardis]

HD won't work in iPods or other small portable media. The power consumption is too high. ... Every receiver is essentially a computer CPU, since the whole platform was designed by computer geeks, not radio people.

This is not your best argument -- what do you think an iPod is?

(To play MP3 or AAC files, you spend your time doing fast Fourier transforms.)

The computational complexity of HDR is the same order of magnitude as audio streaming to an iPhone. It can be done, but most easily when the standards are open and many experts can be properly rewarded for their inventiveness.

 

[tomservo]

First of all, the FCC doesn't regulate iPods. So they can't make such a mandate. If they could, they'd mandate iPods to carry AM/FM.

But why satellite? Beacuse, as you say, they sought to break the rules. That opened the door. Had they not made that request of the FCC, I doubt very much that the FCC would have ever made such a suggestion.

Also, just because the FCC is seeking comments doesn't necessarily mean they've made up their mind. This is part of the new "glasnost" at the Commission where they look for input on a lot of things, perhaps to evade criticism from Congress.

They also have a rule against one company owning both DARS licenses, but the Feds seemed fit to ignore that in approving this merger thing. But let me restate my idea: why don't they madate that HD radios include an mp3 player? Or a satellite radio?

Again, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I was against the merger and I'm against forcing them to include such proprietary tech in any device. IF they do it, then it should at least cut both ways. Anyway - focing the use of HD radio would spell the end of portable sat devices and "pocket mobile" units like my Roady XT. It was $40 at Wal-Mart - I've yet to see an HD radio come anywhere close to that price point, or be as light or cool running as this thing.