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FCC: Interference from a well pump

K

kenglish

Guest
"The Citation, issued April 23, is in response to several complaints about a well pump at Lopez’s residence that was acting as an incidental radiator and causing harmful interference to local radio amateurs."

"Lopez was found by the FCC to be in violation Section 15.5(b) and (c) of the FCC’s rules by operating an incidental radiator and causing harmful interference. He was instructed by the FCC to “take immediate steps to ensure that he does not continue to cause harmful interference, including repairing or replacing his well pump and associated control circuitry.”

http://www.arrl.org/news/florida-man-cited-for-causing-harmful-interference-to-radio-amateurs

Has anyone ever complained to the FCC about interference with reception of a Broadcast Station?
What were your experiences and results?
 
But isn't this the same FCC that approves of AM stations jamming their adjacent frequencies with noise, also called HD Radio.
 
But that's sanctioned interference.

I suspect the guilty party is the pump or controls manufacturer.

Just betcha a cap in a switching mode power supply opened up, after which it spewed rf hash for miles.

Mr Lopez may do well to find a lawyer to ask why (if the device were properly wired) the responsibility
does not fall the manufacturer of the device which could and did fail in a way not in compliance with part 15.
I understand the need worldwide for these "all-votage" supplies, but this IS what happens when they're built to the price margin
we see now. They can keep working for a LONG time, while spewing trash.

I'm happy to see the FCC looking at noise sources, but it might be they should be looking at large corporate industrial users
with lots of switched AC conduction drives, instead of the little people.
There's a whole lot more money to made for them if they could... let's say, figure out who are the biggest noise makers
and fine them for harmonics created by switched current devices.
The funds collected would go to rf noise abatement and suppression projects... :D
 
If indeed there was/is a failed component in the pump controller causing the interference, would the manufacturer be responsible if the device was out of warranty? I think not. Also sounds as if FCC gave multiple warnings and the NAL is a last resort. Be willing to bet when FCC verified the interference was emanating from Mr Lopez pump, they probably offered possible remedies.
 
Well, here's an interesting story about interference. At the TV station I first worked at in Nashville some of the recordings from satellite of shows we would air had some small interference hits at regular intervals. Once when I saw them I went outside and noticed a plane overhead and thought the hits might have been coming from aircraft radar. I was close. Our engineer got on the phone with the other TV engineers in the market, one at a time. and had them watch the sweep of their weather radar and indicate when the sweep was over our affected satellite dishes. The interference WAS coming from one of the other TV station's weather radar. We put a filter on our system and cleared it up.
 
Many years ago, while I was CE of a directional AM radio station, I had the FCC come by for a random inspection. They wanted me to go with them and measure the antenna monitor points as listed in the station’s license. As we rode around in the FCC’s car with all of the antennas (and secret radio gear that they would not let me see), I mentioned that we were having a problem with power line noise in a certain area. The FCC inspector had me show them where the problem was. They did some measurements and decided the power company indeed had a problem. It was recommended that I contact the power company and to give them two weeks to correct the interference. Of course, the power company blew me off and said it was cable tv problems, neon signs etc.

As instructed by the FCC Engineer, I wrote a letter to the power company and copied it to the Engineer in Charge of the district FCC office. A couple of days later, I received a phone call from a vice president of the power company who wanted to clear up any interference issues with our radio station. I met with some power company people in the problem area and they soon traced the interference to something around a pole mounted transformer. In a day or so, the problem was corrected and they sent a letter to the station and to the FCC.

Afterwards, the power company’s local public affairs person would occasionally give me a call to be sure we were not having any more problems.
 
Power companies actually can be pretty cool about stuff like that.

The huge ones and the not-so-huge companies.

Con-Ed in New York came by after I'd traced a terrible noise source on the AM dial to some splice between poles one house away. I literally had to use the loop inside to null out most of the noise before that visit.
That handicap, of course, limited a lot of what ordinarily would come in from that direction and 180° off it.
Un-good.
(I fibbed and told them I saw a spark or two coming from that 'splice', or whatever it was called. Maybe that accelerated the repair :- )

When I moved here to NEPA there became a suitably appalling and increasing noise on the AM dial in the apartment where we lived. It just got worse and worse. At one point I thought *I* might be causing it, what with all the decades of DX and residual static possibly having infected me.
A PP&L guy came by, a great guy, with one tooth and a hardhat. He was like a Coal Country Columbo, very thorough. In fact, he even checked on his van's radio and heard the same noise before ringing our bell! He proceeded to ask everyone in the three apartments, and found the problem on the premises.
Someone had stowed an electric blanket in the storage room, off-season, and left it plugged in. The blanket itself was not turned on. But the control-dial mechanism for the temperature had deteriorated for some reason. The PP&L guy unplugged it.
No more noise.
PP&L and the vigilant AM DX hobby may have prevented an apartment fire.

Lol -- the same sort of concept negligence, forty years before that, had thawed out James Arness in 'The Thing'.
 
I consider myself to be pretty lucky when it comes to power line noise. The smaller utility here (who also runs water, sewer and crappy cable TV) seems to take pride in their lines and noise is almost unheard of everywhere they service. Alabama Power, on the other hand… There's a stretch of a busy county highway in Bessemer (outside of Birmingham) where the 50 kW station whose stick is only a few miles away is completely and utterly wiped out by power line noise. For a mile or two. It's been that way for years but apparently no one cares. Of course the smaller stations certainly don't stand a chance. It's probably the worst AM noise I've heard in my life.

Inside houses is another story. Both in Mississippi and here on the coast my house makes all kinds of noise. Go outside, it goes away. Too much technology, with all these computers and whatnot.
 
Although this isn't exactly what the OP asked about...

Our power co., APS (Arizona) is VERY good even with just the threat of FCC being called. I had two things-

I called our power co. to investigate horrible hash on AM bcast band, they sent a guy out in 48 hours, turns out it was an internal issue with the crappy old timey wiring in the condos I was in at the time. Nothing grounded. I had used my own battery powered radio to RDF and I had erroneously assumed it was APS wiring from the pole to the buildings but it was actually the properties own external lighting putting out the hash-the pole and lighting were nearby and hash so bad I assumed it was the pole, never repaired even after threats to my landlord about FCC fines, I ended up moving before repairs if any.

2nd instance, and this is just with the threat of contacting the FCC: APS installed smart meters in that same multi unit dwelling. I didn't like them, and assumed they'd interfere with my equipment "somehow" and noticed poor wireless connection issues after they were installed. I emailed APS with the FCC warning of Part 15 interference (you DO know that Smart Meters are part 15, right? Well, they are- also part 17 I believe) and that the meters are interrupting my x-10 system and wireless. APS came out 2 days later on a Monday and removed the smart meter- no questions asked. In case you didn't know those meters frequency hop and are CONSTANTLY transmitting and not "infrequently" as the power companies tried to tell me. I think we are going to have a lot of people with wireless phone and router problems and won't figure them out as they have no idea about the smart meters.

Sometimes just threatening an entity with you contacting the FCC will get them going. Mind you I had asked APS to remove my smart meter before with no action. Once I copy pasted the FCC order on Part 15 interference did they come out.
 
I used to have real problems with receiving analog VHF Channel 5 (the station I work for) at my apartment.
Most of it has always been due to a (huge) strip-mall across the street. It was usually bad in the evenings, after the neons came on.

I did find a new source once, which was interfering about every 60 seconds. I traced it down to a stuck doorbell button on a vacant apartment. As I was walking away, the lady from the apartment below it asked, "Are you here to fix our Cable TV?"
I went in and saw that the doorbell transformer's thermostatic breaker opening and closing was completely obliterating all of the Cable TV channels on her set (of course, the building was all wired with RG-59).

Had another problem where the restaurant about 500 feet away had a bad neon sign. After trying to contact the manager several times, I called the FCC, who sent them "the letter". That got the restaurant's owners involved, and I met their Ops V.P. and a sign crew, and we checked things out. Found some problems on the main sign, and fixed them. The small "Takeout Available" sign, though, still was bad, so they agreed to turn it off, pending a future replacement of the whole sign structure.
A few months later, the noise was back...the "Takeout" sign was back on. I talked to the sign company, and they said that the restaurant owners were complaining that they were "losing thousands of dollars a week" due to that portion of the sign being off, but they would not spend a few hundred dollars to install a needed filter. The sign guy said the owner of the franchise ordered the sign back on, even though he reminded him that the FCC fines could be huge if they broke their agreement.
The owner replied "F... the FCC, turn it back on".

Since they were a major client of my station, the FCC Inspector and I agreed not to pursue it on any legal grounds. My station manager said he would talk to the owner, but never did.
The restaurant filed for bankruptcy a year or two later. Building is replaced with a new one, but the sign is still there. ::)
 
I'm a little puzzled at the shabby "journalism" on this incident. If ARRL... a bunch of teckies... is going to report this in their news letter or in a new release from their HQ and officers, I would expect them to look into details of what is going on here.

Is this a pump located fully above ground... or is this a submersible pump that is at the bottom of the well?

The location is Florida and I suppose like the Texas coast where I grew up, residential wells tend to be quite shallow so the entire pump assembly could well have been above ground.

BUT... this was Florida. Was this an in-town residence with a residential sized pump that we would expect just about anywhere... or was this a farm-house where the pump may be been larger to provide water for farm animals as well as the family in the residence... for was this a farm-house with an irrigation well which would mean an industrial strength pump with some "bad-boy noise generating components".

Curious minds want to know!

With millions of residential well pumps in America, is this the first time one has been cited for RF interference? Is this a common problem that happens to one out of every 173 residential well pumps?

Where is the rest of the story?
 
If Goat Rodeo Cowboy thinks the ARRL report is shabby, then perhaps you should contact the ARRL in Newington Ct and ask them for the "rest of the story" instead of bashing them here. Do you think Fox or CNN would do a better job?
 
Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Ya' gotta love it.

Life's rule #429:
  • Do NOT spit INTO the wind
  • Do NOT tug on Superman's cape
  • Do not MESS with bad, bad Leroy Brown
  • Do not cross swords with the NRA
  • Do not irritate the ARRL!!!!!

I just read the FCC Notice and Order

So I went to Google and friends to see what else there might be available about this situation.

I quickly found these two links:

<http://www.commlawblog.com/tags/ruben-d-lopez-jr/>

<http://lwra.blogspot.com/>

I found pages and pages and pages of links to every Tom, Dick and Harry web site and blog operated by amateur operators and amateur radio club-groups high-fiving the FCC for issuing the order.
Even in New Zealand amateur radio folks are celebrating the FCC for taking action.

But you know what I DIDN'T find? I found no reports that any amateur operator is reported to have knocked on Mr. Lopez's door and said: "Can I look at your pump with you and see if we can come up with a solution?"

I DIDN'T find a report that an amateru operator knocked on Mr. Lopez's door and was told to go away... get off my property.

I would think guys (and gals) who live to do community service and have these emergency preparedness test events would find someone in their group who could go over and poke around and say: "A'ha. Here's the problem! This is what will fix it."

I'm waiting to read that story.

I did read where the FCC inspector in an earlier inspection recommended that Mr. Lopez install a filter and that he acquired such a filter and installed it or had it installed. (That implies that the FCC gave him some guidance on what kind of a filter might do the trick.) The report says the filter was installed, and the problem was not fixed.

I you are Ruben Lopez... and you are not an R.F. teckie, and what the FCC suggested doesn't work, what is your proper next step? Turn off the pump. Give up drinking water for Lent. Quit going to the bathroom in the house and flushing. No more bathing.

Lighten up folks. Grown men around the world printing blogs and hoisting an adult beverage because the FCC jerks someone around and leaves them to "stew in their own juices".
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Ya' gotta love it.

Life's rule #429:
  • Do NOT spit INTO the wind
  • Do NOT tug on Superman's cape
  • Do not MESS with bad, bad Leroy Brown
  • Do not cross swords with the NRA
  • Do not irritate the ARRL!!!!!

I just read the FCC Notice and Order

So I went to Google and friends to see what else there might be available about this situation.

I quickly found these two links:

<http://www.commlawblog.com/tags/ruben-d-lopez-jr/>

<http://lwra.blogspot.com/>

I found pages and pages and pages of links to every Tom, Dick and Harry web site and blog operated by amateur operators and amateur radio club-groups high-fiving the FCC for issuing the order.
Even in New Zealand amateur radio folks are celebrating the FCC for taking action.

But you know what I DIDN'T find? I found no reports that any amateur operator is reported to have knocked on Mr. Lopez's door and said: "Can I look at your pump with you and see if we can come up with a solution?"

I DIDN'T find a report that an amateru operator knocked on Mr. Lopez's door and was told to go away... get off my property.

I would think guys (and gals) who live to do community service and have these emergency preparedness test events would find someone in their group who could go over and poke around and say: "A'ha. Here's the problem! This is what will fix it."

I'm waiting to read that story.

I did read where the FCC inspector in an earlier inspection recommended that Mr. Lopez install a filter and that he acquired such a filter and installed it or had it installed. (That implies that the FCC gave him some guidance on what kind of a filter might do the trick.) The report says the filter was installed, and the problem was not fixed.

If you are Ruben Lopez... and you are not an R.F. teckie, and what the FCC suggested doesn't work, what is your proper next step? Turn off the pump. Give up drinking water for Lent. Quit going to the bathroom in the house and flushing. No more bathing.

Lighten up folks. Grown men around the world printing blogs and hoisting an adult beverage because the FCC jerks someone around and leaves them to "stew in their own juices".
Click to expand...
 
Maybe 15 years ago the next door neighbor had some electrical work done....Someone lifted a neutral and a TV that was plugged in, but turned off, got 230 volts applied, and MW was filled with trash.

After a week or two, having directional'ed their TV from my house......I handed them a portable radio at their front door and explained the problem...they verified the tv was the culprit, and admitted what had happened...there was a bad "tearing"
pronounced as in "tearing a piece of paper" running through the screen after the mishap.

They gave me the tv to fix.....the part that is "always on", waiting for the remote signal, had a couple of electrolytic caps
blown apart. I found equivalents in the junk box and fixed their TV for free, and everyone was happy.
The "tearing" of the displayed screen was fixed as well.

They were renters, and are long gone. but this is the BEST way to corect issues as GRC suggests.

There will always be people who aren't helpful and who will tell you to get lost, but there is no harm in a civil solution,
if you can figure one out.
 
Now here's an example of an excerpt from a NOUO I think it'd be interesting to see...


FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION

ENFORCEMENT BUREAU

SOUTH CENTRAL REGION

San Juan Office

US Federal Building Room 762

San Juan, PR 00918-1731

(787) 766-5568

June 24, 2013

52° 43' 17.63" N,174° 3' 26.41" E

Shemya Island, AK

NOTICE OF UNLICENSED OPERATION

Case Number:

Document Number:

The Puerto Rico Resident Office received information that broadband radio noise
centered on 1120 kHz was allegedly operating on Shemya Island, AK. On June 21,
2013, at 3:10pm AST, agents from this office confirmed by direction finding
techniques that radio signals centered on frequency 1120 kHz were emanating from
52° 43' 17.63" N,174° 3' 26.41" E on Shemya Island, AK. With the aid of agents from
the Anchorage, AK office, we determined that a CFL lamp, laptop power adapter and
plasma television set were the culprits.

Radio stations must be licensed by the FCC pursuant to 47 U.S.C. S: 301.
An exception to this licensing requirement is for certain transmitters
using or operating at a power level that complies with the standards
established in Part 15 of the Commission's Rules, 47 C.F.R. S:S: 15.1 et
seq. The field strength of the signal on frequency 1120 kHz was measured
at 1,012,328,744 microvolts per meter (uV/m) at 10,221,332 meters, which
exceeded the maximum permitted level of 1 googolminex (1/10^10^100) yoctovolts
per yottaparsec (yV/YP) at 1 googleminex planck lengths established in Section
15.109(a) of the Rules for unintentional radiators (see 47 C.F.R. S: 15.109(a)).

Furthermore, we determined that the CFL lamp was drawing 10 watts of power, but
was only emanating 1,250 microvolts per meter at 5 meters in the 400 to 700 THz
spectrum. This fails to meet the minimum efficiency requirement for lights of
100 millivolts per meter at 100 meters per watt. Also the lamp was not marketed as a
heat lamp, so radiation below 400 THz and above 700 THz should have been limited to
the level referenced in 15.109 in the previous paragraph, but this was not the case.

There was one redeeming factor, though. You requested we inspect your installation
of unlicensed broadcast radio stations on 1480 kHz and 88.5 MHz. We determined
they exactly meet the maximum limits of 2,500 milliwatts input into a 60.96 meter
tall antenna structure on 1670 kHz, and 1,000,000 microvolts per meter at 1000
meters on 88.5 MHz. However, the noise from the unintentional radiators must
be corrected before operation of the offending devices may continue.


Ok, so I sure hope we never see noisemakers putting out 1 kV at 10,000 km, but the "rules" specified are similar to what I would like to see. :) (Oh and that's about by how many dB, calculated from above, I'd like to see unintentional emissions reduced.)
I wish the FCC would crack down on unintentional radiators, and relax intentional radiators somewhat. :-\ Hey maybe if they set fines high enough to scare us all into bringing everything into compliance, the entire US National Debt could be paid off? ;) (There's got to be a better solution to bring the manmade noise levels down to the ultra-low field strengths mentioned above, though.)
 
The first thing I was ever told by an FCC Inspector was, "Do not attempt to repair their equipment, or offer to purchase or supply any parts".
He explained that you could then be held liable for any future problems with their equipment, even if not related to the "fix".

Several years ago, a neighboring business had a neon sign that was damaged by high winds. The arcing was so bad that it was even interfering with the audio output of his satellite-fed background music, in addition to blocking TV and radio reception nearby. I recommended that he call his sign contractor, but he tried to fix it himself.
He burned the entire building down!
 
A couple of years ago, we began getting a lot of PLI on lines near my home. Unfortunately, I've kinda slacked-off on chasing some of this stuff. After a while, we had an outage. Turns out, an in-line splice on one of the distribution cables (around 7 KV) finished burning in two. Apparently, it was defective, and the wire was arcing inside the splice...it also varied under load. It failed, and fell across a parked car.
A few months ago, we found the source of some of the remaining noise, when a 200KV+ line fell apart, about 100 yards away. It fell across a parking lot at a tire store, frying a customer's car in the process. (It also melted the asphalt until the breakers were pulled. Store employees also received minor shocks while walking inside the building.)
Similar problem...a cad-welded splice failed.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
I DIDN'T find a report that an amateru operator knocked on Mr. Lopez's door and was told to go away... get off my property.

I would think guys (and gals) who live to do community service and have these emergency preparedness test events would find someone in their group who could go over and poke around and say: "A'ha. Here's the problem! This is what will fix it."

I'm waiting to read that story.

I did read where the FCC inspector in an earlier inspection recommended that Mr. Lopez install a filter and that he acquired such a filter and installed it or had it installed. (That implies that the FCC gave him some guidance on what kind of a filter might do the trick.) The report says the filter was installed, and the problem was not fixed.

I you are Ruben Lopez... and you are not an R.F. teckie, and what the FCC suggested doesn't work, what is your proper next step? Turn off the pump. Give up drinking water for Lent. Quit going to the bathroom in the house and flushing. No more bathing.

Lighten up folks. Grown men around the world printing blogs and hoisting an adult beverage because the FCC jerks someone around and leaves them to "stew in their own juices".
Click to expand...

The Goat Rodeo Cowboy obviously has a burr under his saddle for the ARRL and amateur radio in general.

I refute the accusation that FCC goes around bullying residential property owners who are causing interference. IIRC this case evolved over a period of two years during which time the pump owner had ample time to find a remedy. Could amateurs have helped? Possibly...but let's be clear that they are under no obligation to do so. The responsibility to correct the problem utimately lies with the property owner, and lack of technical knowledge is not an excuse.
 
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