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FCC OTURD Laws

K

kenglish

Guest
Had to take down all my radio antennas yesterday.They are not covered under FCC OTURD Laws...only TV, satellite and internet ("cool, modern technologies") are covered. The FCC could care less about radio.

The assistant at the rental office was nice about it, said "maybe" I could sneak something back up in a few weeks, after the potential buyers tour the complex. But, she said the manager would like them "permanently removed".

I wonder why a skinny piece of 14 AWG wire, 30 feet off the ground, caught their attention, but not the big-honkin' DirecTV triple-stacker dishes with multiple LNB's, bolted to people's windowsills, did not? And, then there's the lawn, where the maintenance guys cut wheelies in the grass with their golf carts, right by the main entrance. Looks like crap, but I guess it ain't as bad as looking like a tecch'ie lives there.
 
Yuck. I guess it has to do with radio antennas being suspicious or uncomfortable to nonDXers. Or they think we are up to no good. And the non DXers use flat screen TVs to watch movies and play games, causing the interferences. That's where I think the FCC should look into.


I use only indoor antennas and just deal with any noise by nulling them out with AM loops. Sometimes I go outside with a Tecsun DSP radio when the weather is nice.
 
I wonder where the next generation of technically-inclined people are going to come from, if Americans can't even listen to a radio or watch TV, much less play Ham radio?

Asia, I guess.
 
I have never seen any section of law that requires holding an FCC license to erect such
antennas as are necessary to provide adequate communications.

Nowhere do the rules specify that transmitting is any way required.

By federal FCC law, you are entitiled to put up such antennas as required for YOUR communications needs,
and no one else is enttitled to decide for you what you do or don't need access to.

Be polite but firm. They may be entitled to one's best efforts to minimize obtrusiveness, but cannot legally
restrict anyone's commmunications.
 
On the contrary, homeowners associations can and will do whatever they please regardless of what is legal or a right. An antenna is an easy target for them when many have made it impossible to even fly an American flag in front of your home now.

I chose to never live under the restrictive rules placed by these micro governments upon their subjects many years ago and haven't looked back. Busybodies and nosy meddlers usually run them and only go after the people they know will comply with their vision of how the neighborhood "needs" to look. They never go after the guy with 14 derelict cars in the front yard, or the barking dog on a short chain amid the piles of scrap metal surrounding the house that hasn't seen paint in 20 years.
 
Subdvision covenant "rules" are not laws and the Federal law supercedes everywhere.

There is no law requiring anyone be permitted to install flagpoles, anywhere, "as neccesary" for any reason.

There is no law that says a restrictive covenant cannot regulate the "look" of properties for as long as they can
get away with it.

But they may not restrict you from installing such antennas as are necessary for your required communication(s).

I'd never want to live in any such place anyway, but such restrictive covenants all deserve to have
somone use FCC law to show their control does NOT extend to a prohibition of anternas.
You can always win in Federal court, if you've got the time and money to protect your rights in this matter.
 
Funny, but a downstairs neighbor had a marijuana farm in his unit for a year or two. Nobody paid any attention, until he moved out and left a burned-out 1,000 watt light bulb on the kitchen cabinet.
 
Since there's nothing to do at home after work, maybe I'll take up drinking.
I wonder if there are any bars that have shortwave radios hooked up for the patrons to use. Kinda' like a Sports Bar, but for nerds. ;D
 
nocomradio said:
On the contrary, homeowners associations can and will do whatever they please regardless of what is legal or a right. An antenna is an easy target for them when many have made it impossible to even fly an American flag in front of your home now.

I chose to never live under the restrictive rules placed by these micro governments upon their subjects many years ago and haven't looked back. Busybodies and nosy meddlers usually run them and only go after the people they know will comply with their vision of how the neighborhood "needs" to look. They never go after the guy with 14 derelict cars in the front yard, or the barking dog on a short chain amid the piles of scrap metal surrounding the house that hasn't seen paint in 20 years.
Click to expand...

I understand the desire not to live in an HOA controlled area, but not all are quite that selective in enforcement of HOA policy.

I have a townhouse rental in an HOA subdivision and there is simply no way there would be one derelict vehicle in the front yard, much less 14. If it isn't licensed and parked in the one assigned parking spot per unit or the second allowed parking permit, the HOA will have it towed. The HOA does a house inspection, usually twice a year and the owners are told what needs to be fixed, repaired or painted. If the property owner refuses to do the work, under Commonwealth of Virginia law the HOA is permitted to do the work and then charge the owner for the repairs. Commonwealth law also permits the HOA to place a lien against the property if the repair work is not paid or the yearly dues are not paid. Even the water utility in Price William County wil pace a lien against a property if the water bill is not paid.

Drastic measures perhaps, but all of this is spelled out in the HOA agreement provided to a new owner before property goes to settlement when sold. The upshot of this is that it does keep the townhouse community looking fairly decently, and in the spirit the areas was developed 40 years ago.

I've had some minor isses with the HOA, mostly related to long distance maintenenace of my property, but my property managers susually take care of things before they become major issues.
 
The FCC was asked to decide just that question -- whether the public interest required that licensed radio amateurs be allowed to install effective antenna systems.

They ruled that it does, in terms of prohibiting local governments from banning antennas. (with certain limitations, safety for example)

However, they ruled that HOA regulations are voluntary private agreements -- that amateurs could avoid them by choosing to live elsewhere -- and thus the Commission won't override those regulations.

Again, let me emphasize, that is the FCC's opinion. Mine may be different.
 
I'd say (just from personal experience) that an HOA isn't going to either let you do what they don't like regardless of Federal law, or listen to your opinion regardless of whether you are right or not.

Case in point: Living under an HOA some 15 years ago in a townhouse complex I owned and rode a motorcycle on a daily basis. During a period of 2 weeks, the weather was very poor and I covered the bike and parked it in my assigned spot in front of my house (I owned and didn't rent). I came home one evening to find a notice nicely safety pinned through my brand new cover rendering it now leaky. The notice stated I had to move the unlicensed "derelict" vehicle. Trying to be nice about it I took the notice to the complex office and asked that one of the representatives please accompany me and demonstrate how they came to the conclusion that I had a "derelict" vehicle and why my cover was ruined in the process. Once we arrived at my offending vehicle I had the person raise the cover with their own hands to see that the license tag and stickers were all current. Surprised, the person in question then proceeded to tell me that I should not have covered the bike. By now I was a little puzzled, but asked why they chose to destroy my cover by poking holes through it instead of just looking to see of the tags were current. No answer.

To make a long story short, I tried and tried to get reimbursed for the damaged cover (all of $45 at the time) only to be refused repeatedly until I got tired and dropped it, figuring it wasn't worth the time and effort to drag it into court when I could be doing things like earning a living or something.

Meanwhile, my next-door neighbor lived in a home that hadn't seen paint in years, the grass was approximately a foot tall at any given time, and generally the place never saw any maintenance at all. One evening during a windstorm, about 16 or so feet of his fence blew over into my backyard and had I not tossed it back into his yard it might still be there. He didn't care and no enforcement was ever carried out. Period. It seemed just a tad lopsided to me.

Later, when I moved, the HOA threatened me with a lein because my front door was painted the wrong color. As I loaded the U-Haul to leave I stopped by the office one last time to clearly state that if they placed that lein, I'd take it personally. I left it at that in those words and never heard anything more on the issue.

HOA's may be different from place to place, but overall, I think they only enforce what they know they can get away with.
 
w9wi said:
The FCC was asked to decide just that question -- whether the public interest required that licensed radio amateurs be allowed to install effective antenna systems.

They ruled that it does, in terms of prohibiting local governments from banning antennas. (with certain limitations, safety for example)

However, they ruled that HOA regulations are voluntary private agreements -- that amateurs could avoid them by choosing to live elsewhere -- and thus the Commission won't override those regulations.

Again, let me emphasize, that is the FCC's opinion. Mine may be different.
Click to expand...

I cannot put up a tower where I live due to density and overhead wiring. I accept that.
An effective receiving antenna can be a LOT less obtrusive than what is needed for efficient transmitting.
This is where it is worthwhile to continue to work with such morons to establish reasonable compromises for legal activities.
This is another facet of the plan to take away the idea of the "public's airwaves", by restricting access to most wavelengths,
even simply being able to receive them.

Satellite, as "owned" spectrum, can't be discriminated against?
Guess what's really wrong here.
 
I wish we could attach photos here.
I walked around last night, taking (about 35) photos of sat dishes attached to window sills and chimneys, rotting fences and signs,
gym equipment on balconies, broken lights covered in bird poop, and trash on doorsteps (phone books that were delivered in August, and people just step over them to enter their apartments, plus months-old circulars and bags of garbage).

Shot pictures of how they "tag" the light fixtures (using tape) that don't work any more due to rusted-out underground wiring, so they don't keep putting in new bulbs.

Also got a couple of shots of the 2-way radio antenna on the office. I've never seen a license for it. ;)
 
kenglish said:
I wish we could attach photos here.
I walked around last night, taking (about 35) photos of sat dishes attached to window sills and chimneys, rotting fences and signs,
gym equipment on balconies, broken lights covered in bird poop, and trash on doorsteps (phone books that were delivered in August, and people just step over them to enter their apartments, plus months-old circulars and bags of garbage).

Shot pictures of how they "tag" the light fixtures (using tape) that don't work any more due to rusted-out underground wiring, so they don't keep putting in new bulbs.

Also got a couple of shots of the 2-way radio antenna on the office. I've never seen a license for it. ;)
Click to expand...

That has always been my beef with HOA's. They go after people who respond, and who listen to their rules and regulations, and they usually do that with a bit of a heavy hand. The rest (as you found in your tour) just disregard the rules and never have any enforcement placed upon them. HOA's know who will fold and comply, and therefore they deal with them while letting the others slide simply because it takes too much work. Try to join the board and make a change, and you will find out very quickly that if you rock the boat, or actually try to enforce anything that is truly an issue, you'll be voted off quickly. I sat one short term on the board of the second place I lived at with an HOA and was not well received.

In fact, one year when the board did their annual reviews they couldn't find anything wrong with my townhouse, so they cited me for my fiberglass window screens being slightly sun-bleached. Two houses down, the paint was peeling from all of the trim and it stayed that way until I moved a couple years later. That is what I never understood.
 
nocomradio said:
I'd say (just from personal experience) that an HOA isn't going to either let you do what they don't like regardless of Federal law, or listen to your opinion regardless of whether you are right or not.

Case in point: Living under an HOA some 15 years ago in a townhouse complex I owned and rode a motorcycle on a daily basis. During a period of 2 weeks, the weather was very poor and I covered the bike and parked it in my assigned spot in front of my house (I owned and didn't rent). I came home one evening to find a notice nicely safety pinned through my brand new cover rendering it now leaky. The notice stated I had to move the unlicensed "derelict" vehicle. Trying to be nice about it I took the notice to the complex office and asked that one of the representatives please accompany me and demonstrate how they came to the conclusion that I had a "derelict" vehicle and why my cover was ruined in the process. Once we arrived at my offending vehicle I had the person raise the cover with their own hands to see that the license tag and stickers were all current. Surprised, the person in question then proceeded to tell me that I should not have covered the bike. By now I was a little puzzled, but asked why they chose to destroy my cover by poking holes through it instead of just looking to see of the tags were current. No answer.

To make a long story short, I tried and tried to get reimbursed for the damaged cover (all of $45 at the time) only to be refused repeatedly until I got tired and dropped it, figuring it wasn't worth the time and effort to drag it into court when I could be doing things like earning a living or something.

Meanwhile, my next-door neighbor lived in a home that hadn't seen paint in years, the grass was approximately a foot tall at any given time, and generally the place never saw any maintenance at all. One evening during a windstorm, about 16 or so feet of his fence blew over into my backyard and had I not tossed it back into his yard it might still be there. He didn't care and no enforcement was ever carried out. Period. It seemed just a tad lopsided to me.

Later, when I moved, the HOA threatened me with a lein because my front door was painted the wrong color. As I loaded the U-Haul to leave I stopped by the office one last time to clearly state that if they placed that lein, I'd take it personally. I left it at that in those words and never heard anything more on the issue.

HOA's may be different from place to place, but overall, I think they only enforce what they know they can get away with.
Click to expand...

Understand and I suspect different HOAs act differently. You may very well have experiences where your HOA was selective in enforcement.

I do believe the HOA where my rental is located would take action against the owner of the unpainted property and if the owner did not paint it, the HOA would do so and if the owner refused to pay, the HOA would place a lien against the property. The HOA is nasty sometimes, but I think they are fair, they will go against anyone in the subdivision. Commonwealth of Virginia law gives considerable power to the HOAs in the commonwealth.

My townhouse is a corner lot end unit, and some years back I had a problem with neighbors walking across my grass, cutting across the corner. THe HOA bought and installed a split rail fence to deter the corner cutting.
 
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