FCC Payola Probe

[johnws2002]

Any word on if any Boston stations are being investigated in the FCC Payola Probe?

 

[neanderpol]

What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

So...

Let me get this straight.

Television is paid for, or pays for every program it airs.

Radio charges for advertising.

Is not the playing of music an advertisement for a band/record company?

What's wrong with charging for airplay?

If the personality adds the record company name to the backsell, is that not acknowledgement?

"That's the latest from Matisyahu, who's got a new disc coming out brought to you by Sony".

Sounds legal to me? And what's wrong with radio making money off airplay? Record companies need radio to move their units. Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue at all. It's the cost of advertising.

I'm not saying it's good art...but music hasn't been about art since they started charging you to buy it anyway.

Just thinking out loud. It is ALL about business, and money. Wish it weren't. But I also wish I'd have played in the NFL. Doesn't make it any more possible.

Thoughts?

 

[raccoonradio]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

As I understand it it's only payola if the "pay" is not disclosed. From
Wikipedia: "...the illegal practice of record companies paying money for the broadcast of records on music radio is called payola, if the song is presented as being part of the normal day's broadcast. Under United States law, a radio station <font color="red"> has always had the ability to play a specific song in exchange for money; <font color="black"> however, this must be disclosed on the air as being sponsored airtime, and that play of the song should not be reported as a "spin"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola

> What's wrong with charging for airplay?

 

[Neggy]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

however, this must be disclosed on
> the air as being sponsored airtime,

Nothing is wrong with it, outside of the it has ruined the music business and what we as "consumers" get to hear over the primary medium for music distribution.

a "pay for play" is no different than a commercial, and as we all know sponsors of commercials are SUPPOSED to be clearly identifiable from the content ( Tide detergent commercials we assume are from the makers of Tide, not All) or ID'd at the start or end of the spot "the following is a commercial message", or such language.

The FCC had a hair across its backside about 3 years ago and was handing out N.A.L.'s in bulk to stations that failed to clearly identify the buyers of ads.

There was a time when radio, telivision,and print were held in high esteem. They were legitimate,in the corner of the little guy. Being associated with a program was bankable, " as heard on Paul Harvey News" "As seen on TV" etc.

We all know that after the game show scandals (21) and the payola scandals in radio this was not true. Hence the regulations. Look at how long infomercials disappeared from the airwaves.. a good 30 years.

There is also the difference between some MD getting coke for ading a song, and some record company or indy rep writing a check to Infinity for the add. The government likes to see income on the books that way they get thier percentage in taxes.

when are people going to realize the music is just something they program to keep you there till the next spot, and even the music is a spot.

rant over

 

[Shellanswerman]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

> So...
>
>
> I'm not saying it's good art...but music hasn't been about
> art since they started charging you to buy it anyway.
>
> Just thinking out loud. It is ALL about business, and money.
> Wish it weren't. But I also wish I'd have played in the NFL.
> Doesn't make it any more possible.
>
> Thoughts?

Beethoven (the composer, not the St. Bernard dog) tried to make a living by staging concerts of his music for $$$$$$. Because January 27th was the 250th anniversary of Mozart's birth, a lot of people spread the message that Wolfgang was the greatest musical genius ever, but NOBODY ever wrote greater compositions than LvB. Until Mahler cam along, nobody even tried to follow in his footsteps. Unfortunately for Ludwig, his music was so advanced that he really couldn't do all that well selling tickets to the public so he went back to accepting commissions from the rich.

 

[fccfight]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

Great songs like "Louie Louie" were cut for less than 50.00 and happened because one d.j. took a chance.

When Corporations pay for play they give us homogenized material that they
own 100%, they don't develop careers, nor do they care about the fan base.

They just care about selling Cheerios, Fruit Loops and Toilet Paper, only this product is called "music".

Celine Dion puts on a fantastic show, but why should she get the benefit of the payola over a local garage rock band that can write the next "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

Great djs force good records on the air - John Garabedian with "Maggie Mae",
against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a multi-millionaire now, isn't
he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner eventually and that was that.



> So...
>
> Let me get this straight.
>
> Television is paid for, or pays for every program it airs.
>
> Radio charges for advertising.
>
> Is not the playing of music an advertisement for a
> band/record company?
>
> What's wrong with charging for airplay?
>
> If the personality adds the record company name to the
> backsell, is that not acknowledgement?
>
> "That's the latest from Matisyahu, who's got a new disc
> coming out brought to you by Sony".
>
> Sounds legal to me? And what's wrong with radio making money
> off airplay? Record companies need radio to move their
> units. Otherwise this wouldn't be an issue at all. It's the
> cost of advertising.
>
> I'm not saying it's good art...but music hasn't been about
> art since they started charging you to buy it anyway.
>
> Just thinking out loud. It is ALL about business, and money.
> Wish it weren't. But I also wish I'd have played in the NFL.
> Doesn't make it any more possible.
>
> Thoughts?
>

 

[Frish]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

> Great songs like "Louie Louie" were cut for less than 50.00
> and happened because one d.j. took a chance.
>
> When Corporations pay for play they give us homogenized
> material that they
> own 100%, they don't develop careers, nor do they care about
> the fan base.
>
> They just care about selling Cheerios, Fruit Loops and
> Toilet Paper, only this product is called "music".
>
> Celine Dion puts on a fantastic show, but why should she get
> the benefit of the payola over a local garage rock band that
> can write the next "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?
>
> Great djs force good records on the air - John Garabedian
> with "Maggie Mae",
> against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a
> multi-millionaire now, isn't
> he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner
> eventually and that was that.


If I take your word for it that Garabedian broke "Maggie May" (which I am willing to do) that is not what has made him wealthy, he is wealthy because currently Superradio is the largest syndicator of Urban programming in the world, among other endeavors. garabedian didnt get rich as a dj, and dj's dont pick the music and have not since the 70's. Read "FM the rise and fall of rock radio" by Richard Neer, an author who was there, who actually worked in radio, was inside the stations when Payola was happening in those days and explains the genisis of fm's rise and rock radio in general. Your point about Celine is erroneous becuase even if Celine's spins ar epaid for she wont be heard onthe same station as the local garage bband that wirtes the next "smells like teen spirit" so even if her record gets on air it's not taking the place of the garage band which would not be heard on the same sttation as Celine, ever....Who doesnt know that one?. However while payola on the surface is obviously wrong in practice and in concept, to try to blame the state of music and radio on it is just wrong as I think Neggy was trying to do. If you think you're not hearing the next "smells like teen spirit" becauuse someoen paid for J lo to get a few more spins then you're not really in touch with the music world today.

You will almost never see a song added becuase a programmer was given something monitary in return Dave Universal formerlyy of Entercom in Buffalo perhaps being the exception, and a pretty stupid one at that rather stations that are already playing a band will perhaps increase the number of spins that band gets because the station is given a certain number of tickets for tthe show when they come to the market, or maybe the station is given a "fly away" where listeners get to see the band in another market on the record company dime, is that WRONG? no it's promotion which benefits both parties. The only reason thatt this is on the front burner now is becuse Elliot Spitzer wants to run for Gov of New York and what better way to elevate his national profile then by going after criminals that are essentially white collar criminals which will get him national exposure? I.E Primetime Live. I say there is real crime happening Elliot wheere lives are being greatly affected, go find it.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

Would radio stations dare to make an announcement such as "This broadcast of '(Name Of Song)' by '(Name Of Artist)' has been sponsored and paid for by Colossus Records"??

This way, they would make payola 100% perfectly legal.

But are they afraid that by making such a disclosure, they would incur the wrath of newspapers, politicians, etc.??

 

[rockchick]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

I do not favor payola, but I would point out a couple of things:

1) I would not be quick to invoke the host of Open House Party as a counter-example to payola (infer what you will, I won't elaborate).

2) Don't forget, even PD's that take payola are responsible for ratings. It does not benefit programmers to take money to play records that will drive their ratings down. Payola or not, listeners still need to like what they're hearing and if they don't, the PD's will lose their jobs.

3) Let's not think that payola is unique to the music industry. Do you know what grocery stores get paid to position products in the right place on shelves? Are you aware that many studies on the effectiveness of drugs are paid for by the drug manufacturers? (If payola in the music biz upsets you, read John Abramson's "Overdosed America.") Payola in many of these other industries would seem to cause far greater harm, but Spitzer chose to go after the music industry. I wonder why...

On a totally unrelated note, does anybody know how much the music industry spends on lobbying compared to these other industries? What's a gubenatorial candidate to do?


I believe that records should be added to the playlist based on their merit. But any time art intersects with commerce, things get tricky. In this case, it seems that "merit" doesn't mean "the best" or "most talented," but "will be liked by the greatest number of people." Let's face it, the masses don't always opt for high art. Are there some payola abuses out there? Yes. Should we get rid of them? Yes. When we do, will the public wake up and reject Celine Dion in favor of Radiohead? Yeah right.

 

[MarcR]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

> If I take your word for it that Garabedian broke "Maggie
> May" (which I am willing to do) that is not what has made
> him wealthy, he is wealthy because currently Superradio is
> the largest syndicator of Urban programming in the world,
> among other endeavors. garabedian didnt get rich as a dj,
> and dj's dont pick the music and have not since the 70's.
> Read "FM the rise and fall of rock radio" by Richard Neer,
> an author who was there, who actually worked in radio, was
> inside the stations when Payola was happening in those days
> and explains the genisis of fm's rise and rock radio in
> general. Your point about Celine is erroneous becuase even
> if Celine's spins ar epaid for she wont be heard onthe same
> station as the local garage bband that wirtes the next
> "smells like teen spirit" so even if her record gets on air
> it's not taking the place of the garage band which would not
> be heard on the same sttation as Celine, ever....Who doesnt
> know that one?. However while payola on the surface is
> obviously wrong in practice and in concept, to try to blame
> the state of music and radio on it is just wrong as I think
> Neggy was trying to do. If you think you're not hearing the
> next "smells like teen spirit" becauuse someoen paid for J
> lo to get a few more spins then you're not really in touch
> with the music world today.
>
> You will almost never see a song added becuase a programmer
> was given something monitary in return Dave Universal
> formerlyy of Entercom in Buffalo perhaps being the
> exception, and a pretty stupid one at that rather stations
> that are already playing a band will perhaps increase the
> number of spins that band gets because the station is given
> a certain number of tickets for tthe show when they come to
> the market, or maybe the station is given a "fly away" where
> listeners get to see the band in another market on the
> record company dime, is that WRONG? no it's promotion which
> benefits both parties. The only reason thatt this is on the
> front burner now is becuse Elliot Spitzer wants to run for
> Gov of New York and what better way to elevate his national
> profile then by going after criminals that are essentially
> white collar criminals which will get him national
> exposure? I.E Primetime Live. I say there is real crime
> happening Elliot wheere lives are being greatly affected, go
> find it.
>
If you're interested in learning about the actual harm Payola can cause (especially on Urban formatted stations), I'd recommend checking out an excellent expose on the subject on the liberal webzine Salon.com. If you do, you might learn that the issue has far more many nuances than your post addresses.

 

[classicradionut]

Well, lets get a few things straight

> Great songs like "Louie Louie" were cut for less than 50.00
> and happened because one d.j. took a chance.

Different time when DJs could actually pick the music. That would *NEVER* happen in today's world. NEVER! Not that it shouldn't, but jocks are not allowed at 99.999999999% of stations to monkey with the music.

> When Corporations pay for play they give us homogenized
> material that they
> own 100%, they don't develop careers, nor do they care about
> the fan base.

I think that's a gross generalization. You can't tell me that Kelly Clarkson's career isn't being developed - hell they pushed so many singles out of her album last year it was enough to make you sick. Frankly I think she's a lousy singer who sings flat half the time, but in the interests of American Idol fans... you get the picture. She'll be back. And, yes, you could say she's homogenized... pasteurized, etc.

>
> They just care about selling Cheerios, Fruit Loops and
> Toilet Paper, only this product is called "music".
>

And, America's a capitalist country, where the object of commerce is to make a profit. Your point is?

> Celine Dion puts on a fantastic show, but why should she get
> the benefit of the payola over a local garage rock band that
> can write the next "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

What evidence do you have that Celine Dion is benefiting from payola or that the remaining members of Nirvana are not? In other words, do you even know what the $#@! you're talking about? The artists don't benefit from payola where it happens, the damned music industry that promotes her does, along with those few in radio who decide to play along. This is the same industry that'll sue grandma because her grandson downloaded a few mp3s 'illegally'. Frankly, I'm glad Elliot Spizer's going after them because the recording (and record promotion) industry is crooked and greedy as the day is long, and the list of those who benefit from payola scandals is rather short compared with those who toil on both sides of the industry trying to make a buck.
>
> Great djs force good records on the air - John Garabedian
> with "Maggie Mae",
> against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a
> multi-millionaire now, isn't
> he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner
> eventually and that was that.

Which reminds me of something an old PD told me half a dozen years ago... "you play something that the record companies haven't approved for airplay and you'll get blacklisted.... you won't get any more tickets to giveaway on the air, no more cd's for promotion, nothing". That was one of those "just between you and me" discussions. Is that NOT a form of Payola?

1973-'74 was a very long time ago and Garabedian was a PD at WMEX then (not just a JOCK). You could get away with things then that you can't now, and to rehash a point I made earlier, jocks today do NOT in most cases get autonomy in picking music, and damn sure not during the show... where everything is scheduled ahead of time and played back in the computer.... You do realize that everything that plays is audited, right?<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[argytunes]

Re: What's Wrong With Pay For Airplay?

> Would radio stations dare to make an announcement such as
> "This broadcast of '(Name Of Song)' by '(Name Of Artist)'
> has been sponsored and paid for by Colossus Records"??
>
> This way, they would make payola 100% perfectly legal.
>
> But are they afraid that by making such a disclosure, they
> would incur the wrath of newspapers, politicians, etc.??
>
Personally, Joe.....if such an announcement was made in order to DECREASE THE LENGTH OF ADS IN A RADIO STATION SPOT CLUSTER...I'D ENDORSE IT!

The 'clutter from the clusters' most radio stations have these days has really gotten "out of control!" That goes for many of the 'network spot breaks' too!

argytunes

 

[fccfight]

Re: Well, lets get a few things straight

I actually agree with some of what you have to say, Steve,
here goes:

> Great songs like "Louie Louie" were cut for less than 50.00
> and happened because one d.j. took a chance.

Different time when DJs could actually pick the music. That would *NEVER* happen in today's world. NEVER! Not that it shouldn't, but jocks are not allowed at 99.999999999% of stations to monkey with the music.

I AGREE - I'm ON MY LOUIE LOUIE kick this week as Dick Peterson of THE KINGSMEN
has a new book out.


> When Corporations pay for play they give us homogenized
> material that they
> own 100%, they don't develop careers, nor do they care about
> the fan base.

I think that's a gross generalization. You can't tell me that Kelly Clarkson's career isn't being developed - hell they pushed so many singles out of her album last year it was enough to make you sick. Frankly I think she's a lousy singer who sings flat half the time, but in the interests of American Idol fans... you get the picture. She'll be back. And, yes, you could say she's homogenized... pasteurized, etc.

YER RIGHT, IT WAS A GROSS GENERALIZATION - ON PURPOSE. LIMP BIZQUICK COMES
TO MIND. I DON'T KNOW IF INTERSCOPE "OWNED" THEM OUTRIGHT, but the "legal"
pay for play thing they did when American Radio Systems sold the station
(May 9, 1998 Billboard, front page, if memory serves) IS WHAT BROUGHT THAT
TO MIND


> They just care about selling Cheerios, Fruit Loops and
> Toilet Paper, only this product is called "music".
>

And, America's a capitalist country, where the object of commerce is to make a profit. Your point is?

MY POINT IS THEY WANT TO OWN TOO MUCH OF THE PIE.


> Celine Dion puts on a fantastic show, but why should she get
> the benefit of the payola over a local garage rock band that
> can write the next "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

What evidence do you have that Celine Dion is benefiting from payola or that the remaining members of Nirvana are not?

YEP, YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT, NIRVANA COULD'VE BENEFITED. WE KNOW CELINE
DID BECAUSE OF SPITZER'S INVESTIGATION

In other words, do you even know what the $#@! you're talking about?

I BEG TO DIFFER (on your comment that seems to allege I haven't read "hit Men" (or lived it! being the victim of a famous P.D. HA ) WHILE ALSO AGREEING WITH YOU ON MANY OF YOUR POINTS. IT'S A COMPLEX ISSUE THAT
NEEDS MORE THAN A MESSAGE BOARD TO ADRESS IN ITS ENTIRETEY

The artists don't benefit from payola where it happens, the damned music industry that promotes her does, along with those few in radio who decide to play along. This is the same industry that'll sue grandma because her grandson downloaded a few mp3s 'illegally'. Frankly, I'm glad Elliot Spizer's (SPITZER) going after them because the recording (and record promotion) industry is crooked and greedy as the day is long, and the list of those who benefit from payola scandals is rather short compared with those who toil on both sides of the industry trying to make a buck.
>
WISH TOM REILLY WOULD FOLLOW SUIT

> Great djs force good records on the air - John Garabedian
> with "Maggie Mae",
> against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a
> multi-millionaire now, isn't
> he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner
> eventually and that was that.

Which reminds me of something an old PD told me half a dozen years ago... "you play something that the record companies haven't approved for airplay and you'll get blacklisted.... you won't get any more tickets to giveaway on the air, no more cd's for promotion, nothing". That was one of those "just between you and me" discussions. Is that NOT a form of Payola?

1973-'74 was a very long time ago and Garabedian was a PD at WMEX then (not just a JOCK).

YEP, YOU'RE RIGHT, HE WAS P.D., but he also flipped "REASON TO BELIEVE" over
against the wishes of Mercury (thus MAGGIE MAE) and forced Warner Brothers (THE FACES label) to deal with Mercury (ROD's label)

WONDER IF ARNIE WOO WOO was P.D. WHEN HE PLAYED LOUIE LOUIE
and IF Jerry Denner (JERDEN RECORDS) had a "connection" with him to
get Louie Louie played???


You could get away with things then that you can't now, and to rehash a point I made earlier, jocks today do NOT in most cases get autonomy in picking music, and damn sure not during the show... where everything is scheduled ahead of time and played back in the computer.... You do realize that everything that plays is audited, right?

YES, AND BMI DOESN'T DO A VERY GOOD JOB.

R & R does a decent job - why not BMI & ASCAP. AND WHERE ARE THE PERFORMANCE
RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS in all this? KNEE DEEP IN THE HOOPLA, no doubt, AS THEY
BENEFIT AS WELL

______________
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by fccfight on 02/21/06 03:47 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[fccfight]

John H GARABEDIAN

> > Great djs force good records on the air - John Garabedian
> > with "Maggie Mae",
> > against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a
> > multi-millionaire now, isn't
> > he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner
> > eventually and that was that.
>
>
> If I take your word for it that Garabedian broke "Maggie
> May" (which I am willing to do)

OH YEAH, JOHN H GARABEDIAN DID BREAK MAGGIE MAE. STORY IS LEGEND.
AND MADE ROD THE MOD'S CAREER HAPPEN SOONER.


that is not what has made
> him wealthy, he is wealthy because currently Superradio is
> the largest syndicator of Urban programming in the world,
> among other endeavors.
I THINK HE ALSO BOUGHT A SECOND AIRSTRIP IN HIS BACKYARD WHEN
HE SOLD V-66


garabedian didnt get rich as a dj,
> and dj's dont pick the music and have not since the 70's.
>
IT WAS GARABEDIAN BEING A JOCK THAT GOT HIM ON THE PATH TO BEING
RICH.

Read "FM the rise and fall of rock radio" by Richard Neer,
> an author who was there, who actually worked in radio, was

YEAH, RICHARD NEER SPEAKS AT THE SAME SEMINARS I SPEAK AT.
I'm ACTUALLY WRITING THIS FROM NACA AT THE HYNES AUDITORIUM, UNGODLY
HOURS I KEEP FOR THIS BUSINESS. MY GOD, IMAGINE IF I ACTUALLY WORKED FOR A LIVING ! (SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD KEEPS SAYING I DON'T WORK! HA TRY KEEPING
THESE HOURS!)


> inside the stations when Payola was happening in those days
> and explains the genisis of fm's rise and rock radio in
> general. Your point about Celine is erroneous becuase even
> if Celine's spins ar epaid

WELL, WHAT DO I KNOW, I WAS ONLY STANDING NEXT TO CELINE AT
GREAT WOODS WHILE INTERVIEWING HER KEYBOARD PLAYER, MAN, IMAGINE
IF I WORKED FOR A LIVING. BUT IT WAS THE SPITZER INVESTIGATION THAT
UNCOVERED THE CELINE THING. I RESPECT HER SHOWWOMANSHIP - SHE'S GREAT
ONSTAGE, THOUGH IT ISN'T EXACTLY MY STYLE OF MUSIC

for she wont be heard onthe same
> station as the local garage bband that wirtes the next
> "smells like teen spirit" so even if her record gets on air
> it's not taking the place of the garage band which would not
> be heard on the same sttation as Celine, ever....

AHH, BUT BACK IN THE DAY OF REAL TOP 40

Who doesnt
> know that one?. However while payola on the surface is
> obviously wrong in practice and in concept, to try to blame
> the state of music and radio on it is just wrong as I think
> Neggy was trying to do. If you think you're not hearing the
> next "smells like teen spirit" becauuse someoen paid for J
> lo to get a few more spins then you're not really in touch
> with the music world today.
>
ACTUALLY, READ MY ESSAY ON 'BROTHER LOUIE' BY STORIES, I
HAD TO LEAVE ALL THE PAYOLA STUFF OUT, BUT IT WAS PRETTY
HIDEOUS HOW IT IS ALLEGED THAT GREAT SONG GOT ITS LAUNCH


> You will almost never see a song added becuase a programmer
> was given something monitary in return Dave Universal
> formerlyy of Entercom in Buffalo perhaps being the
> exception,

CAN'T BELIEVE HE STILL HAS A JOB

and a pretty stupid one at that rather stations
> that are already playing a band will perhaps increase the
> number of spins that band gets because the station is given
> a certain number of tickets for tthe show when they come to
> the market, or maybe the station is given a "fly away" where
> listeners get to see the band in another market on the
> record company dime, is that WRONG? no it's promotion which
> benefits both parties. The only reason thatt this is on the
> front burner now is becuse Elliot Spitzer wants to run for
> Gov of New York and what better way to elevate his national
> profile then by going after criminals that are essentially
> white collar criminals

WISH TOM REILLY WOULD GET UP TO SPEED

which will get him national
> exposure? I.E Primetime Live. I say there is real crime
> happening Elliot wheere lives are being greatly affected, go
> find it.
>
THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS. BACK TO WORK NOW. 2500 people at this convention
at the unGodly hour of 10:30 at night

 

[Frish]

Re: John H GARABEDIAN

You're so full of it, you> > > Great djs force good records on the air - John
> Garabedian
> > > with "Maggie Mae",
> > > against the wishes of Mercury records. John's a
> > > multi-millionaire now, isn't
> > > he? But he did have a tiff with the station owner
> > > eventually and that was that.
> >
> >
> > If I take your word for it that Garabedian broke "Maggie
> > May" (which I am willing to do)
>
> OH YEAH, JOHN H GARABEDIAN DID BREAK MAGGIE MAE. STORY IS
> LEGEND.
> AND MADE ROD THE MOD'S CAREER HAPPEN SOONER.
>
>
> that is not what has made
> > him wealthy, he is wealthy because currently Superradio is
>
> > the largest syndicator of Urban programming in the world,
> > among other endeavors.
> I THINK HE ALSO BOUGHT A SECOND AIRSTRIP IN HIS BACKYARD
> WHEN
> HE SOLD V-66
>
>
> garabedian didnt get rich as a dj,
> > and dj's dont pick the music and have not since the 70's.
> >
> IT WAS GARABEDIAN BEING A JOCK THAT GOT HIM ON THE PATH TO
> BEING
> RICH.

You are so full of it you're constantly trying to belittle jocks for being jocks as if that is something not to be proud of . Garbedian's road to riches didnt start with his being a jock that was hardly what made him the wealthy man that he is today it was mostly syndication of his shows open house party and then the many other programs that his company distributes that he has nothing to do with. Yes he soled V66 to home shopping and that Im sure put a pretty penny in his pocket but that was not related to his being a dj, home shopping did not buy V66 becuase of its format they bought it becuase it was a chf television station in the Boston area.
>
> Read "FM the rise and fall of rock radio" by Richard Neer,
> > an author who was there, who actually worked in radio, was
>
>
> YEAH, RICHARD NEER SPEAKS AT THE SAME SEMINARS I SPEAK AT.
> I'm ACTUALLY WRITING THIS FROM NACA AT THE HYNES AUDITORIUM,
> UNGODLY
> HOURS I KEEP FOR THIS BUSINESS. MY GOD, IMAGINE IF I
> ACTUALLY WORKED FOR A LIVING ! (SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD KEEPS
> SAYING I DON'T WORK! HA TRY KEEPING
> THESE HOURS!)

Somehow I doubt that Neer has credibility, he has actually worked in the industry, he has not just written about what he thinks it is about from the sidelines.
>
>
> > inside the stations when Payola was happening in those
> days
> > and explains the genisis of fm's rise and rock radio in
> > general. Your point about Celine is erroneous becuase
> even
> > if Celine's spins ar epaid
>
> WELL, WHAT DO I KNOW, I WAS ONLY STANDING NEXT TO CELINE AT
> GREAT WOODS WHILE INTERVIEWING HER KEYBOARD PLAYER, MAN,
> IMAGINE
> IF I WORKED FOR A LIVING. BUT IT WAS THE SPITZER
> INVESTIGATION THAT
> UNCOVERED THE CELINE THING. I RESPECT HER SHOWWOMANSHIP -
> SHE'S GREAT
> ONSTAGE, THOUGH IT ISN'T EXACTLY MY STYLE OF MUSIC

NOT THE POINT you suggested that because Celine had spins paid for that would preclude some local band who wrote the next "smells like teen spirit" from getting airplay, your point did not make any sense and it was not accurate. Interviewing Celine Dion's keyboardist? yes you certainly are in with all of the A list heavyweights arent you? who would care what her keyboardist has to say about backing her up as part of her sappy band?. You have an obvious habit of trying to build up the insignifigant players that you are able to get hold of for your interviews, you then in tuurn try to project those nonplayers as somehow being important. Celine's studio musician keyboardist is not even a minor footnote in rock history, dont kid yourself.
>
> for she wont be heard onthe same
> > station as the local garage bband that wirtes the next
> > "smells like teen spirit" so even if her record gets on
> air
> > it's not taking the place of the garage band which would
> not
> > be heard on the same sttation as Celine, ever....
>
> AHH, BUT BACK IN THE DAY OF REAL TOP 40
>
> Who doesnt
> > know that one?. However while payola on the surface is
> > obviously wrong in practice and in concept, to try to
> blame
> > the state of music and radio on it is just wrong as I
> think
> > Neggy was trying to do. If you think you're not hearing
> the
> > next "smells like teen spirit" becauuse someoen paid for J
>
> > lo to get a few more spins then you're not really in touch
>
> > with the music world today.
> >
> ACTUALLY, READ MY ESSAY ON 'BROTHER LOUIE' BY STORIES, I
> HAD TO LEAVE ALL THE PAYOLA STUFF OUT, BUT IT WAS PRETTY
> HIDEOUS HOW IT IS ALLEGED THAT GREAT SONG GOT ITS LAUNCH
>
>
> > You will almost never see a song added becuase a
> programmer
> > was given something monitary in return Dave Universal
> > formerlyy of Entercom in Buffalo perhaps being the
> > exception,
>
> CAN'T BELIEVE HE STILL HAS A JOB
>
> and a pretty stupid one at that rather stations
> > that are already playing a band will perhaps increase the
> > number of spins that band gets because the station is
> given
> > a certain number of tickets for tthe show when they come
> to
> > the market, or maybe the station is given a "fly away"
> where
> > listeners get to see the band in another market on the
> > record company dime, is that WRONG? no it's promotion
> which
> > benefits both parties. The only reason thatt this is on
> the
> > front burner now is becuse Elliot Spitzer wants to run for
>
> > Gov of New York and what better way to elevate his
> national
> > profile then by going after criminals that are essentially
>
> > white collar criminals
>
> WISH TOM REILLY WOULD GET UP TO SPEED
>
> which will get him national
> > exposure? I.E Primetime Live. I say there is real crime
> > happening Elliot wheere lives are being greatly affected,
> go
> > find it.
> >
> THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS. BACK TO WORK NOW. 2500 people at
> this convention
> at the unGodly hour of 10:30 at night
>
Is this a self important blogger convention?.

 

[Frish]

Re: Well, lets get a few things straight

>
> Which reminds me of something an old PD told me half a dozen
> years ago... "you play something that the record companies
> haven't approved for airplay and you'll get blacklisted....
> you won't get any more tickets to giveaway on the air, no
> more cd's for promotion, nothing". That was one of those
> "just between you and me" discussions. Is that NOT a form of
> Payola?


And you believe that? because it is garbage, That sis false and you are an even more uninformed about reality than I imagined if you took that as gospel truth. Why is it that nothing you ever reference happened post 70's? it was a different time and a differnt world then, not to mention an entirely different industry on both the radio and record sides. In short you are painfully and embarassingly out of step with the reality of both the radio and record industries today. In short he's right you do not know what the #$%^&*(@!!! you are talking about.
>
> 1973-'74 was a very long time ago and Garabedian was a PD at
> WMEX then (not just a JOCK).
>
> Yeah and do you actually think he was making a huge salary then/ doubtful.

 

[johnster]

Re: Well, lets get a few things straight

Speaking of getting away with things...
How many of the rest of us was surprised to see Joe come back with the same name? I thought after classic had figured out his identity he was on vacation again but I guess he just took a little break.

 

[NotoriousN-I-K]

Re: Well, lets get a few things straight

> > the fan base.
>
> I think that's a gross generalization. You can't tell me
> that Kelly Clarkson's career isn't being developed - hell
> they pushed so many singles out of her album last year it
> was enough to make you sick. Frankly I think she's a lousy
> singer who sings flat half the time, but in the interests of
> American Idol fans... you get the picture. She'll be back.
> And, yes, you could say she's homogenized... pasteurized,
> etc.
>
> YER RIGHT, IT WAS A GROSS GENERALIZATION - ON PURPOSE. LIMP
> BIZQUICK COMES
> TO MIND. I DON'T KNOW IF INTERSCOPE "OWNED" THEM OUTRIGHT,
> but the "legal"
> pay for play thing they did when American Radio Systems sold
> the station
> (May 9, 1998 Billboard, front page, if memory serves) IS
> WHAT BROUGHT THAT
> TO MIND
>
> Two bad examples cited. Kelly Clarkson is a fantastic singer, she is a true talent whether you like her particular brand of music is another discussion alltogether, but her talent is undeiable, she has a great set of pipes. No payola would even be necessary for someone like her, she had literally tens of millions who voted for her on American Idol, she had a built in marketing machine in that she was on the top rated tv show for however many weeks that competittion is. If only a fraction of those who voted for her actually went out and purchased her albums she still goes platinum, and honestly for a pop artist at least she can actually carry a tune.

Limp Bizkit is another bad example, the legal pay for play scenario that you mention was in place for their first album which did nothing, the second album broke them (and as much as people want to hate them, was a great record for what it was) then the first album went on to sell well after the first had broken. Someone like you of course would not be a "Limp Bisquick" fan, it's not FOR you, you're in your 50's and from all of your posts it's pretty clear that you're stuck in the past if youre referencing a book written by one of the Kingsmen for god's sake.......Limp Bizkit was pretty much a typical rebellious teen oriented rock band, their music was not aimed at middle aged people, Im sure you found them loud and their vernacular (much of which was hip hop) difficult to understand, in short like they say ".... you're too old"

 

[fccfight]

Frish comments on FCC /Steve West dialogue

Frish,

I know you like to attack everything I say - but your foot is firmly
in mouth here. The material you have highlighted came from Steve West's
pen, not mine.

For Your Information.

> > STEVE WEST'S COMMENTS:
> > Which reminds me of something an old PD told me half a
> dozen
> > years ago... "you play something that the record companies
>
> > haven't approved for airplay and you'll get
> blacklisted....
> > you won't get any more tickets to giveaway on the air, no
> > more cd's for promotion, nothing". That was one of those
> > "just between you and me" discussions. Is that NOT a form
> of
> > Payola?
>
FRISH'S RESPONSE

> And you believe that? because it is garbage, That sis
> false and you are an even more uninformed about reality than
> I imagined if you took that as gospel truth. Why is it that
> nothing you ever reference happened post 70's? it was a
> different time and a differnt world then, not to mention an
> entirely different industry on both the radio and record
> sides. In short you are painfully and embarassingly out of
> step with the reality of both the radio and record
> industries today. In short he's right you do not know what
> the #$%^&*(@!!! you are talking about.
> >
FCC SAYS - CLEARLY, FRISH - YOU are the one who is _W()%)(@*%@!
You just love to attack me, even if it is someone else's comments.

STEVE WEST
> > 1973-'74 was a very long time ago and Garabedian was a PD
> at
> > WMEX then (not just a JOCK).
> >
FRISH'S RESPONSE

> > Yeah and do you actually think he was making a huge
> salary then/ doubtful.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by fccfight on 02/22/06 01:03 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[fccfight]

Re: Well, lets get a few things straight

Nik,

I'm flattered you find a need to respond to my every word - you
seem to have my comments memorized, but I didn't bring up Kelly Clarkson.

Also, you are so selective in bashing The Kingsmen or Orleans - as you know
i've written (and been paid for, thank you very much) over 2000 current articles on acts that span 50 years of music. My reviews of the Kingsmen
are not very flattering - indeed - I've ripped the band apart for throwing
Jack Ely out and losing Donny Galucci - two huge Garage Rock favorites -
so the band was just a shadow of itself.

You seem to ignore all the current music I review, interview, etc.etc,
but I understand - you just want to bash me with no congrats whatsoever.
That's cool - that's your shtick.

But, please, payola is very real and hurts radio, the bands and the fans.


> >
> > Two bad examples cited. Kelly Clarkson is a fantastic
> singer, she is a true talent whether you like her particular
> brand of music is another discussion alltogether, but her
> talent is undeiable, she has a great set of pipes. No payola
> would even be necessary for someone like her, she had
> literally tens of millions who voted for her on American
> Idol, she had a built in marketing machine in that she was
> on the top rated tv show for however many weeks that
> competittion is. If only a fraction of those who voted for
> her actually went out and purchased her albums she still
> goes platinum, and honestly for a pop artist at least she
> can actually carry a tune.
>
> Limp Bizkit is another bad example, the legal pay for play
> scenario that you mention was in place for their first album
> which did nothing, the second album broke them (and as much
> as people want to hate them, was a great record for what it
> was) then the first album went on to sell well after the
> first had broken. Someone like you of course would not be a
> "Limp Bisquick" fan, it's not FOR you, you're in your 50's
> and from all of your posts it's pretty clear that you're
> stuck in the past if youre referencing a book written by one
> of the Kingsmen for god's sake.......Limp Bizkit was pretty
> much a typical rebellious teen oriented rock band, their
> music was not aimed at middle aged people, Im sure you found
> them loud and their vernacular (much of which was hip hop)
> difficult to understand, in short like they say ".... you're
> too old"
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by fccfight on 02/22/06 01:09 AM.</FONT></P>