February 2010 PPM

[oldiesfan6479]

R-I's page said 12+ and All Access said 6+.
Here is the top 20 or so 6+ from AA:

01 KMXP
02 KESZ
03 KUPD
04 KOOL
05 KZON
06t KFYI
06t KPKX
08 KTAR-FM
09 KZZP
10 KSLX
11 KNIX
12 KMLE
13 KLNZ
14 KKFR
15 KYOT
16 KVIB
17t KDKB
17t KJZZ
19t KAJM
19t KNAI
21t KMVA
21t KTAR(AM)
21t KVVA

Who has the 25-54s?

 

[DrAkbar]

While we're waiting for someone to post demos, the Nurse and I opine....

Month #4 that KPHX is a no show. Hmmmm...wonder how All Comedy works in the PPM world?

KFWhyEye's cume is frightening....half day KNAI's is bigger, plus en espanol.

In spite of Phil leaving the Bev & Phil show, KEZ looks darn good for a couple of months after XMAS!

 

[johnboy53]

To tie this in with the 'phx radio is sooooo boring' thread, I'm going to rate the top 10 stations boring or not:

BORING
KEZ (it's like they're afraid to think outside of the box)
KOOL (same damn music for 30 years)
KFYI (give me any article out of the paper and I can tell you Rush's and Sean's opinion without having to listen)
KTAR FM (outside of the morning news block the station is unlistenable....and even in the news block Ned is a pain)
KSLX (see KOOL's comment...but for 20 years)

NOT BORING
MIX 96.9 (good music mix, I'm surprised sometimes)
KUPD (Holmberg is a hoot, the rest of the station is only borderline not-boring)
KZON (any station that rotates the hits every hour and a half should be rated boring, but because of the format they get a Mulligan)
Peak (I don't know, not a compelling station, but it's at least listenable)
KISS (John Jay and Rich do a good show for the audience, the music.....see KZON)

 

[DJ_Perry]

KOOL (same damn music for 30 years)
KSLX (see KOOL's comment...but for 20 years)

Not True. Kool has revamp their playlist in the last year. Playing mainly 70's and 80's classic hits, as opposed to mainly 60's stuff like 10-20 years ago. KSLX has also started to include many 80's rock.

NOT BORING
MIX 96.9 (good music mix, I'm surprised sometimes)

You're kidding right? The Nickelback station?

 

[Wildstyle K]

KOOL (same damn music for 30 years)
KSLX (see KOOL's comment...but for 20 years)

Not True. Kool has revamp their playlist in the last year. Playing mainly 70's and 80's classic hits, as opposed to mainly 60's stuff like 10-20 years ago. KSLX has also started to include many 80's rock.

NOT BORING
MIX 96.9 (good music mix, I'm surprised sometimes)

You're kidding right? The Nickelback station?

Ironically, it was trying to keep it "safe" while working at JC Penney, AND Nickelback's songs that got me into MIX 96.9 back in the later half of 2006! I'd say that album from around that time period was their best. Now, although I still like 96.9, I'd say it's all about The Peak.

 

[pattiwacki]

What's wrong with Nickelback?

 

[Dave Pratt]

For whatever reason, this seems to be my week to read this board. Anyway, I enjoyed John Boy's post, although he is another afraid to use his real name. (although I think we can figure this one out.) I would like to take a shot at the top 10 myself, although I don't put much value into PPM. Still, it is all we get, other than what is truly important as far as performance..................which is revenue. Ratings are over-rated. You can definitely connect the two, but the big boys and girls play for money. It's the only way to truly keep score.

Before we get started, a country station is not even in the top 10 in what is considered a priority country market? WOW! Does anybody else see the elephant in the middle of the room? John Boy?

KEZ - Safe. Conservative. Wishing Bill the best. Anybody who sits in the morning chair for 20 years deserves support.
KOOL - Safe. Predictable. Dependable. Still has some awesome air talent. Benefits greatly from no direct competition and PPM loves oldies, especially in Phoenix where the demographics are in their favor.
KFYI - Not safe. Barry is the most sarcastic guy in Phoenix radio.
KTAR FM - Ned and Connie are pros, but the station lacks identity and a lead local personality. Very, very safe. Very predictable.
KSLX - Considering the type of listeners still using radio, this doesn't surprise me. Still, lacks a warm human body for local identity. Inexpensive to operate.
MIX - 96.9 Safe. Consistent. Inexpensive to operate and groomed for PPM.
KUPD - Alone in its format. Huge benefit. Morning show has improved, although they still need their own identity. Red Radio, U-Fest, Red Cards, etc. was all my stuff from over 25 years ago. It's a compliment, but I would love to see them move on and would be curious to hear their own ideas. I would also be curious to see how they would stand against even a hint of direct competition. Hell, I had the joy of going head to head with Stern for my last 10 years on KUPD. We won some and lost some. Having a competitor kept us in check. It is hard to judge a station without true competition. Still, I have a soft spot for this station. I designed the KUPD logo by free-hand when I was 21 years old in my studio apartment. In the meantime, and until they get competition, they could probably go auto-pilot and score the same numbers.
KZON - Safe. Conservative. Not a plus for this type of format. Give Bruce some time.
PEAK - Safe. Conservative. This station needs identity and human emotion, and not the synthetic kind as they had with Peakerman. Still, the format aligns with PPM.
KISS- Safe. Conservative. John Jay and Rich are heard in several markets as a corporate, cost-saving maneuver. Many companies are doing this type of budget cut. This is a distraction for morning shows. They would be better served just concentrating on one market.

 

[beauduran]

Dave -
Ever since I started at KUPD before you even left in 2001 I have heard this same argument from other people but now that it is coming straight from the horse's mouth I have to call you on it.

KUPD - ...they still need their own identity. Red Radio, U-Fest, Red Cards, etc. was all my stuff from over 25 years ago. It's a compliment, but I would love to see them move on and would be curious to hear their own ideas.

Just because it may have been your idea to call a concert series "U Fest" or nickname the station "The Big Red Radio" doesn't mean the station should stop using those brands when you leave. I'm pretty sure the name "Weenie Roast" was first used for KROQ's summer show when Kevin Weatherly was still here at KZZP. So by your logic, he should have changed the name to something else when he came in. Or maybe a better example is the Nike Swoosh. What if the person who designed that leaves the company? Why would any smart marketer want to drop a brand that has recognition just because the person whose idea it was originally has moved on?

For the record, I have always had the utmost respect not only for all that you helped build at KUPD that I was lucky enough to taste for a year and a half (hell I still have a couple shirts and stickers you sent me when I was 12), but for all you have done in your career in this market. It is admirable to say the least and in no way do I mean any disrespect by challenging you on this argument that has been going around Guadalupe and elsewhere for the better part of a decade.

And I love that you are on here encouraging people to use their real names. That has always been my least favorite thing about this board. I'm in for that BBQ. I may not be great at making a potato salad to contribute or anything, but I can buy a bag of chips or two better than anyone!

 

[Dave Pratt]

Beau, I am just waking up to catch an early flight to lovely Newark, but I had to laugh and respond to your comments. Quit drinking the Kool-Aid Brother! I am sure that Nike still gives credit to whoever developed their overall brand and the "swoosh". The same goes for Kevin Weatherly at KROQ. That is what pros and confident people do in this business! They give credit where credit is due. As for KUPD, I am still waiting........... Personally, I find it gratifying every single time they have to say "Red Radio", "U-Fest", "Red Cards", "Red Rockin' Van", and just about everything else. That has to be humbling. I don't listen to the station, but I laugh now and then when I see the KUPD logo still being used that I personally designed in my studio apartment on a piece of notebook paper. Hell, I even paid for the first stickers myself! I don't mind KUPD still using my stuff as it keeps my heritage on that particular station alive, but they should respectfully bow and pray towards the general direction of my home at least once per morning.......... get on their knees to kiss my ring if they see me......... and maybe when they receive their paychecks every two weeks, thank me over a short prayer for the food that I generously put on their table. Is that asking too much? In the meantime, I am glad they are enjoying the house that I built for them. However, you are correct Beau, they are nearly a decade late paying rent. Maybe I should send them a Nike hat to give them a reminder!

 

[davideduardo]

Ratings are over-rated. You can definitely connect the two, but the big boys and girls play for money. It's the only way to truly keep score.

In major markets, I have seen a few poorly managed stations with the luck of good ratings in the right demos be lower billers, but true cases of low rated stations at the top of the billing ranker are something I don't recall seeing. So it must be that good management, good sales management and good programming are required to bill well.

Before we get started, a country station is not even in the top 10 in what is considered a priority country market? WOW! Does anybody else see the elephant in the middle of the room? John Boy?

It's been a long time since Phoenix had the demographics and psychographics for a major country station. Start with the 30% of the market that is Hispanic, a group not noted for its interst in Nashville's finest. Then look at the change in migratory patterns of people moving into the market, and you see a change favoring places where country is not as strong, too.

KOOL - Safe. Predictable. Dependable. Still has some awesome air talent. Benefits greatly from no direct competition and PPM loves oldies, especially in Phoenix where the demographics are in their favor.

KOOL is not oldies. It's classic hits. And the 35-54 demos in Phoenix are not a lot different from any other fast growth southwestern market.

Few markets have more than one station in this format, so saying they benefit from a lack of competition is rather disingenuous. Classic hits stations have done well in PPM because they get huge P2 and P3 listening... listeners who often did not write down secondary stations in the diary but who are picked up in the PPM. In the target demo, these stations are "everybody's second favorite" and with the compressed TSL of the PPM, they can be very close to the top if otherwise well programmed.

KFYI - Not safe. Barry is the most sarcastic guy in Phoenix radio.

KFYI is not safe, but for another reason... it's an AM.

KSLX - Considering the type of listeners still using radio, this doesn't surprise me. Still, lacks a warm human body for local identity. Inexpensive to operate.

You mean the "kind of listeners" that represent 94% of the 12+ population of the market?

And... you repeatedly said, "...the format aligns with PPM" or similar. The fact is that the diary measured cume, TSL and memory, while the PPM only measures cume and TSL. So big image stations and big image talent did better in the diary than they are seen to do in the PPM, and secondary stations seem to get better numbers when memorability of usage is not an issue.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

KOOL - Safe. Predictable. Dependable. Still has some awesome air talent. Benefits greatly from no direct competition and PPM loves oldies, especially in Phoenix where the demographics are in their favor.

KOOL is not oldies. It's classic hits. And the 35-54 demos in Phoenix are not a lot different from any other fast growth southwestern market.

DE--not kissing up to the Prattster and his BBQ here, but I think he was just
using "oldies" to mean, in KOOL's case, "classic hits." I, being very anal about
it, would either use the strikethrough option or certainly limit "oldies" to the
likes of Lumberyard 1440.

KFYI - Not safe. Barry is the most sarcastic guy in Phoenix radio.

KFYI is not safe, but for another reason... it's an AM.

Well, Akbar's taken the lead on this one, having pushed for 55/FYI to shift
from "ancient modulation" to either 95.5 or 102.5. I'd also take an interim
step in having them simulcast for a few months ("95-point-five fifty KFYI,"
"102-point-five fifty KFYI") before handing off the AM back to the Cheap
Channel Phoenix pool-o-freqs for further use. Nostalgic: 55/KOY anyone?

(Many of you can see right through this, in that I'm trying to get the Doc to
"reveal" himself over in the BBQ thread. Lost cause?)

And David and Dave, don't get too alienated with each other in this thread,
as it would be a real treat to "discuss much" with the Old Gringo at the BBQ.
Why, I hear there'll even be a special "geezer" seating section. (Sorry.) ;D

 

[Dave Pratt]

If "David Eduardo" ever comes out of the bushes to use his real name and accepts my barbecue invite, let's all promise to sober him up. Lowell Observatory is still trying to come up with a name for the lonely planet he is on. Did he really say that it has been a long time since Phoenix had the demographics and psychographics for a major country station? Somebody may want to remind him that it was only about 18 months ago, during the summer of 08' and my last full ratings sweep on KMLE with Big Shoe Stu and the rest of a great air staff, that KMLE was flat out #1 25-54 and flat out #1 in overall revenue. In addition, Phoenix continues to be a top 10 leader in concert attendance for country artists and a top 10 market for country sales, including over the counter product and downloads. David Eduardo, or whatever name you are using today, there are smart people on this board. Don't expect everybody else to lower the bar to believe your personal agenda.

And still, the question remains to be asked. How can the top 10 stations not include a country station in a market that in all other measurements, demographics and psychographics is a priority country powerhouse? This is unbelievable! The answer most likely falls in deep budget cuts, the recipe itself and the chefs in the kitchen. I absolutely loved working in the country format, the listeners, and the artists. It is sad to see Phoenix in this embarrassing position.

 

[testing]

??? I don't understand how a station can be groomed for or aligned with PPM.

 

[pattiwacki]

I think David Eduardo's real name is David Gleason. His website has been linked at the bottom of every post he's ever made under the DE name. He did use another username at one time, "Old Gringo". He changed it, not because of "fear" (and I think it's kind of funny that people keep bringing that up-there are other reasons besides fear to use a message board name, these folks remind me of a group of middle school boys sneering "chicken" at the loners on campus), but I suspect because trolls were all over him to the point where he couldn't get a valid statement posted without a huge hassle. (Though he put up with it longer than anyone else would have and tried to reason with the buttheads). And for the record, though what David says is often a bitter pill to swallow (for me included), 90% of the time he's right. I lurked on this board for many years before I ever posted and have seen this proven out time and again.

 

[DrAkbar]

If "David Eduardo" ever comes out of the bushes to use his real name and accepts my barbecue invite, let's all promise to sober him up. Lowell Observatory is still trying to come up with a name for the lonely planet he is on. .

Yo, Morning Mayor.... that IS his real name. And for those who affectionately refer to him as the Old Gringo, DE resides on Planet Reality. And like the Middle Eastern Men of the Media, David Eduardo tells you what you need to hear...versus what you want to hear. Like it or not, radio is evolving and if you want to be on board then be prepared to change.

 

[davideduardo]

If "David Eduardo" ever comes out of the bushes to use his real name and accepts my barbecue invite,

My name is on, as Patti mentions, every one of my posts going back a decade on this board and its ancestors.

Somebody may want to remind him that it was only about 18 months ago, during the summer of 08' and my last full ratings sweep on KMLE with Big Shoe Stu and the rest of a great air staff, that KMLE was flat out #1 25-54

Well, I did a 4 book average on 12+ for 2008 and we find KNIX at #10 and KMLE at #11. Both were two full shares behind the #1 station. In 25-54, KMLE was 8th and KNIX was 15th. That shows that country was a significant format, but not a major, dominant format such as we see in some other markets.

and flat out #1 in overall revenue.

Now that is just wrong.

KNIX in 2008 was $1.5 million ahead of KMLE, and KESZ was ahead of KNIX by a million and KOOL was ahead by a half mil. There were several other stations, KPKX, KQMR and KTAR that all had billing within a couple of hundred thousand of KMLE, in fact. On pure rank, they were 4thin billing, right where they were in 2009, too.

Of course, the market peaked at $277 million in radio revenue in 2008, and was just $186 million last year, meaning everyone is off by about a third... if your business lost a third of its revenue, you would likely cut costs and do whatever it takes to survive. Phoenix was one of the worst hit of all major US metros, something that is reflected in the fall ouf housing prices, too.

In addition, Phoenix continues to be a top 10 leader in concert attendance for country artists and a top 10 market for country sales, including over the counter product and downloads.

Phoenix is a market of 4 million... it has a larger country core than most other top 15 markets save perhaps Dallas, Atlanta and Houston... so, even if that core is a much smaller percentage of the total market than it was a few decades ago, it is still a lot of people for the concert. Of course, filling a venue is a lot different from having to beat the top cumers in radio, around 1,000,000 persons each for KMXP and KESZ and 800,000 to 900,000 for KPKX, KZON, KOOK and KZZP. By contrast, neither country station is outside of the 500,000 range and the two duplicate many listners.

None of this shows the format to be the powerhouse it once was in the market.

David Eduardo, or whatever name you are using today, there are smart people on this board.

And there are some smart people who just don't have access to the facts.

Oh, "David" and "Eduardo" are the first two names on my driver license, just before my two surnames.

Haz clic en el enlace que aparece abajo, y mi mundo se revelará ante tus ojos.

 

[Dave Pratt]

DavidEduardo. No surname means no credibility, but you are good at spinning numbers and coming up with whatever "averages" over whatever period of time you need to back your argument. Hell, we could all do that!! Especially when you don't want to face reality. You must be a programmer! And believe me, I was well aware of revenue rankings due to bonus structures. I lived the business for three decades. Did you? And if so, why are you so afraid or ashamed to use your real name? And now you and "Akbar" or whatever name he is using today, are hiding in the bushes together? Sad. I only read this board about once a month and comment on whatever is available. Why not more? Because of those like you who can't man-up and use your real names, therefore, you are never accountable for your throws from far out in left field. You can spin all you want and groom your personal agendas, but your opinion will never carry weight unless you stand behind it.

Everybody else would have enjoyed the barbecue!!

Officially signing off on this board until people stand behind themselves and their own names. Otherwise, what's the point? It may as well be a junior high newspaper. It’s a waste of time. And let me guess……. you only date over the internet. Do you use George Clooney’s picture!

 

[pattiwacki]

DavidEduardo. No surname means no credibility, but you are good at spinning numbers and coming up with whatever "averages" over whatever period of time you need to back your argument. Hell, we could all do that!! Especially when you don't want to face reality. You must be a programmer! And believe me, I was well aware of revenue rankings due to bonus structures. I lived the business for three decades. Did you? And if so, why are you so afraid or ashamed to use your real name? And now you and "Akbar" or whatever name he is using today, are hiding in the bushes together? Sad. I only read this board about once a month and comment on whatever is available. Why not more? Because of those like you who can't man-up and use your real names, therefore, you are never accountable for your throws from far out in left field. You can spin all you want and groom your personal agendas, but your opinion will never carry weight unless you stand behind it.

???

Everybody else would have enjoyed the barbecue!!

Officially signing off on this board until people stand behind themselves and their own names. Otherwise, what's the point? It may as well be a junior high newspaper. It’s a waste of time. And let me guess……. you only date over the internet. Do you use George Clooney’s picture!

???

 

[davideduardo]

DavidEduardo. No surname means no credibility, but you are good at spinning numbers and coming up with whatever "averages" over whatever period of time you need to back your argument. Hell, we could all do that!! Especially when you don't want to face reality. You must be a programmer! And believe me, I was well aware of revenue rankings due to bonus structures. I lived the business for three decades. Did you? And if so, why are you so afraid or ashamed to use your real name? And now you and "Akbar" or whatever name he is using today, are hiding in the bushes together? Sad. I only read this board about once a month and comment on whatever is available. Why not more? Because of those like you who can't man-up and use your real names, therefore, you are never accountable for your throws from far out in left field. You can spin all you want and groom your personal agendas, but your opinion will never carry weight unless you stand behind it.

Everybody else would have enjoyed the barbecue!!

Officially signing off on this board until people stand behind themselves and their own names. Otherwise, what's the point? It may as well be a junior high newspaper. It’s a waste of time. And let me guess……. you only date over the internet. Do you use George Clooney’s picture!

Classic response of an egotist who has been proven wrong.

To review, here's the usual checklist for this sort of affair...

1. Shoot the messenger. My full name and 51 years of radio history are a click away. My email is embedded in my profile.

2. Obfuscate. I presented real revenue numbers, real numbers on current cume figures, and a real diary 4 book average, which is the way agencies buy.

3. Distract with ad hominems. I have no idea what intenet dating and George Clooney have to do with this discussion, in any case.

4. Take your ball and go home. Don't take your errors to heart, just pretend that you are right, and get behind the bully pulpit and yell how good you are to the world.

5. Never stoop to checking information from someone else. It has been suggested even by another poster that you click the link below, but that would invalidate more of your points...

6. Return to step 1 and repeat.

 

[DrAkbar]

And now you and "Akbar" or whatever name he is using today, are hiding in the bushes together?

YIKES!