A report out yesterday says that at work listening is back to pre-pandemic levels, so this is a non-issue now.
And working at home is still "at work".
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February PPM 6+
- Thread starter medev
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And working at home is still "at work".
You don't think Billie Eilish is Alternative? She sure doesn't sound like anyone else! Think in terms of Joan Baez or Buffy Saint-Marie. They certainly were played on Progressive stations, the Alternative of the time.
Raise your hand if you worked at (or, heck, listened to) a station back in the 80s or 90s where the currents were absolute pop while the gold was largely rock. That is normal programming, my friends. The End is the new AC station in town, we just never saw it coming.
Some of the most cutting edge rock stations of that era basically went out of business because those stations found it was difficult to adapt to the changes in the music at the time. One example was WNEW-FM, a legendary rock station in New York, that never understood this thing called grunge music that became popular in the late 80s and early 90s. Not long after, the ratings for the station started to fall, and they flipped formats to hot talk. That was the end of it.
I think an earlier post stated it best, The End is an alternative pop radio station in the contemporary era. While they do mix in a few selected rock tracks from the 1990's, this is only a small percentage of their playlist. Similarly, a country radio station may throw in a few "gold" tracks from the 90's or 2000's to give the illusion of more variety. There has definitely been a distinct metamorphosis over the years from alternative rock, to a mixture of grunge rock and "modern rock," and now modern alternative pop. From a listener's standpoint, it really does seem like the music has changed in the past few years alone. To be specific, three years ago more of the modern tracks were focused more rock intensive, with pop and electronic music not hitting the airwaves that often. Nirvana next to Lorde didn't seem that out of place, but hearing Machine Gun Kelly (who I had to look up... must be getting old) seems like a relatively big change. Of course, this has changed, and perhaps with reason. It may not be the worst strategy in the world if they are catching younger listeners in the prime demographic who want to hear new tracks before they hit 92.5 or 106.1. The 6+ rankings will never prove or disprove that speculation. The experts and veterans would be the first to point out that we don't have the whole story.
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I don't know. KISW has held largely to its rock format through the various changes -- dealing with the 'new wave' thing in the early 80s (where they added a handful of guitar driven wave songs -- Flock Of Seagulls 'I Ran' being one of them), British & US metal, grunge, nu-metal -- they seemed to adapt through those trends and keep it rock. They were mainstream rock and then active rock, but to the average KISW listener, the music pretty much was what you'd expect to hear on KISW: some form of Rock.
With the End, it's a different story, and it seems the story is that the commercial music format that made them big no longer seems to exist.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Looking back a few years, you might hear artists like Bishop Briggs, Foster the People, or even Alt-J on The End, and while it may not be everyone's taste, I could certainly see it being classified as "alternative rock." Those lines are completely blurred now, and electronic/pop-oriented music has emerged as the new sound. It may not be to their detriment either, as younger listeners may actually prefer 107.7 as an alternative to KEXP. Not saying that this is the case, but it seems possible. Perhaps following the trend is their best bet.
Perhaps I am missing the point here but in the 80 ‘s KUBE and KPLZ both succeeded with a pop format. To relate it today, I have noted many alternative stations maintain a pretty tight list of songs. Even SXM’s Alt Nation channel are running a tight list.
Alt stations used to have an inherent “edge”. Today they seem much more pop, and dare I say it, whimsical to some extent. But I am not criticizing this as much as just noting it. Perhaps an actual change in alt music is driving this.
Bingo.
There really is no "alternative" rock in 2021. This term just doesn't seem very applicable when most of the new rock landing on KISW is already an alternative to the sound of contemporary popular music. The End makes the choice to include a few older rock songs that are familiar enough to their younger listening audience to maintain their image as an alternative station. Nirvana was certainly alternative in the early 90's.
In the early 2010's I listened more to local FM music radio and The End seemed to be vibrant with interesting music. They were concentrating on the alt-pop-acoustic trend, alternative rock and pop that often had acoustic and almost some Americana elements. But it didn't really take off, apparently. The internet, and streaming has really bit into the 'edge' any format has. It used to be that new songs were released as promos to radio stations before they were otherwise available to the public.
Now they are released on the internet, and radio is catching up to what already is out there.
Now they are released on the internet, and radio is catching up to what already is out there.
I get what you're saying. The word "alternative" has meaning outside of radio. The genre was created as an alternative to what was seen as corporate rock music. It was a newer approach to the punk movement of the 70s that brought about bands like The Clash and Graham Parker. Alternative was a new movement, a new wave, so to speak. But what happens when that new wave becomes 30 years old? So yes, what was alternative in the 90s is now classic alternative. The current wave of music is, in my opinion, very derivative of the old music. Just because you play guitar like Billy Corgan doesn't mean you're alternative. But then how do you classify your music? That's the problem alternative radio has now.
The only branch of the alternative tree that seems to have a distinct identity in 2021 is Americana. All the other subgenres are struggling for identity. And none has reached the critical mass of widespread fandom that would make them work on their own as commercial formats -- and that goes for Americana as well, of course.
I'm not sure about that. I know some people involved in Americana, and each one of them has their own definition for what it is. The best definition I've heard is "everything that doesn't fit in other categories." So when Robert Plant put out a solo album, he said it was Americana. Same with Levon Helm. You might call them classic rock, but it's new music by classic rock performers. Then you have former country stars who want to put out new music. What do you call them? They call it Americana. Then you have current music performers such as the Avett Brothers or Brandi Carlile who define themselves as Americana. It's just a hodge podge or different styles of music all lumped under one name. That's partly why it's hard to program radio around it.
Radio needs a core to build a format around. With alternative, the core is mostly classic hits. If you want to focus on current music under that umbrella, it gets more complicated because of the splintering of the genre. That's a music problem that's created a radio problem.
And Plant was born in West Bromwich, England! But then, the Americana-leaning station I'm most familiar with, WUMB Boston, plays a lot of Richard Thompson -- from London -- as well.
At the risk of repeating myself, current alternative today seems to be groups like Almost Monday, Manchester Orchestra, Grandson, The Neighborhood, The Backseat Lovers, AJR, The Knocks/Foster the People. I never heard of most of these before this year. They do have one thing in common, they tend to lean toward pop rather than rock. I think this is a substantial change in alternative, or what alternative actually connotes today. Or perhaps the “labels” just don’t matter as much today.
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We're probably all going around in a circle on this one. To make a long story short on my end, the contemporary alternative format is weak, and this probably isn't doing The End any favors. KISW is a strong asset for Entercom, as they have a strong format and identity that consistently attracts male listeners. The End seems to be wishy-washy on their identity, and that isn't necessarily the fault of anyone at Entercom. How do you program a radio station for a format that sounds different every single year? The identity is in constant flux, because there is no consistency in what will be popular. The only thing they can really build around is some of the alternative gold music that still gets mixed into the playlist. The Head and the Heart, Lorde, The Lumineers, Foster the People, The Neighbourhood are all acts that have appeared on The End, but none are really consistent enough build around. To be specific, all of those bands/performers have fit in well on The End, but don't have a large enough catalog of music, and thus the format is always changing and tweaking. The next wave of music may sound entirely different, and some listeners (including myself) might not really care for it as much. For the sake of example, the aforementioned bands are all groups that I would personally enjoy on The End, but I'll take a pass when it comes to some of the Billie Eilish and Machine Gun Kelly that they are throwing in now. Of course, they can't rely on the same groups forever just because they fit the format, and with an alternative format, there is some built-in expectation of fresh music. Who do you play when the old standbys don't have any material? This isn't like CHR, where you can count on Dua Lipa and Arianna Grande to be putting out new songs on a weekly basis. It just seems like an extremely difficult task.
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Of course, they can't rely on the same groups forever just because they fit the format, and with an alternative format, there is some built-in expectation of fresh music. Who do you play when the old standbys don't have any material? This isn't like CHR, where you can count on Dua Lipa and Arianna Grande to be putting out new songs on a weekly basis. It just seems like an extremely difficult task.
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Keep in mind that the groups themselves don't release the music, but rather the record labels. And it seems that the record labels are more focused around releasing music for social media than radio airplay. So that means radio may not know when the music will be released, and it may be several songs at a time, and it's designed to appeal the the super-fans rather than listeners to a radio format.
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Keep in mind that the groups themselves don't release the music, but rather the record labels. And it seems that the record labels are more focused around releasing music for social media than radio airplay. So that means radio may not know when the music will be released, and it may be several songs at a time, and it's designed to appeal the the super-fans rather than listeners to a radio format.
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