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Federal "Response"

  • Thread starter ChrisTheListener
  • Start date

> I live in New York. Our state is far more wealthy than
> Louisiana and we have a lot more resources to bring to bear.
> Giuliani could walk a few miles up Manhattan, grab a bagel,
> coffee, and his cell phone and call for help. You can do
> none of that in New Orleans.

Which one is missing.. bagels, coffee or cell phones? Oh, that's right, cell towers were down. Make that a satellite phone. Maybe he's never heard of them.
 
> Bullcrap - Bush senior responded quickly. Stop trying to
> deflect blame. The emporer has no clothes.

Bullcrap. You hate both GB's. It's only now that you are trying to pretend you approved of George H. YOU have no clothes.
 
Re: truth check

> People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Oooh. That's good. I'm writing that one down.
 
> OH GOOD FREAKING GOD.
>
> Should this not be a LOCAL and STATE problem more than a
> federal??

It is to a point. However, the Mayor of New Orleans does not have th epower to have other cities or states take their poor. He told everyone to leave. Those that could did. Those that could not, or would not, din't. Only the federal government can step in and affect events beyond the state level. ALL CITIES across this country have the same plan as N.O. Do not be a GB apologist. Look at reality. Look at your soul. Look at your values before you blindly follow another man's idealogy or beliefs. Do not mimic Limbaugh and think this through on your own.


The local government knows the area better than
> the federal government and should have the plan in place to
> get proper aid to the area of course with the help of the
> federal government.

The Army Corp. of engineers know the area best. It i their job. It is what we pay them to do.


> If you are pinning this on the President you are looking in
> the wrong direction. The Local and state governments are
> the one you need to look at. With the geographical
> situation that N.O. is in, if the city hall didnt have a
> plan for this, well god help us all.

Yes, exactly. You better pray for divine intervention because you will not get help from the government. Keep in mind that you are paying for them to respond to you. They will defend the Wal-Marts from having their food and water stolen. Those that took guns and big screens need to be shot but I saw alot of people being beaten for taking shoes and clothes.

The Federal Governement should be there at the request of the state and
> local government, and working off of the State and local
> government plans. The Federal governement should not come
> into the area and say "This is how it should be done".

The federal government is not authorized to bow down to local governments. I highly recommend you read a civics book.


> A prime example of how it should be done is what happend at
> 9/11. Guliani took control and got the help of the federal
> government.

The same thing the Mayor did. I he didn't go on his rant on the radio: they would still be waiting this Sunday morning.

> All that being said, no matter how much you plan there will
> be thing that fall through the cracks, especially with the
> storm of this size. You just leanr and adjust you plan for
> next time.

Yes. But we already know how to handle things. They are doing grade a job as of Saturday. The federal government thought they could pull their pull yourself crap on dying people.

> > What the sad part is he could care less... this is his
> last term anyways,

He cares because the party needs to continue.

now what about Kanye West...he was right at.

Kanye was emotional, just look at the frightened look on his face. However, he was wrong. I do not believe this was racial. It looks, painfully, that there was a preference in helping the folks in Mississippi which are predominantly Repulican as opposed to N.O. urban dwellers who are vastly more Democrat. If this is the case, it is sinful. No amount of church-goin' will cleanse the soul from that.

> > some points but to make this a racial issue is wong...its
> > more of a demographic issue... the ones who were stranded
> > are poor and in poverty so the government could care less
> if they die...like one woman said in the astrodome when it
> > comes to voting they are important but after the election
> > they could care less....
> > Sorry to say this but this country mostly runs on money
> and greed.

No, this country is run by us. If power and greed decides who is saved over another, WE need to correct our misguided path.

Also, this is not the fault of Republicans or Democrats. It is the fault of a handful of powerful people. Many of them were quite honest in their beliefs on the news stations this week. Many claimed to be good people and patted themselves on the back while making believe they were doing something, when they were not.

It is up to us to decide if we want those people in positions of leadership.
 
Response From An 8th Generation New Orleanian

> Well at least he made a LITTLE effort and got his butt down
> there. It may not have been fast enough but its better then
> nothing.
>

America needs more than a President who is a day late and a dollar short. Bush is "better than nothing", as you write, but, only barely.

Bush The 1st didn't get it with Andrew in Miami in '92; Bush the 2nd doesn't get it with Katrina in New Orleans in '05. Looks like the cocoanut doesn't fall far from the tree.

My hometown...MY CITY...New Orleans is dying! Platitudes from the Prez don't get the job done nor do half-hearted defenses of the man from you.

Said with all due respect to you, but, New Orleans was the city where the past seven generations of my ancestors since 1790 were born, the city where the eighth generation...me...was born, and, where my two sons...the ninth generation of New Orleanians...were born 13 and 14 years ago.

My 8th Great Grandfather was the French Colonial Governor of the Louisiana Territory under Napoleon. We still own the family residence he built in 1792. You have no idea of the history of New Orleans nor the incredible loss we, and many others, have suffered.

Apologies for the rant, but, Mr. Bush has much to answer for. Your defense of his ineptitude simply was far too much to bear for this New Orleanian.
 
> My apologies.... I think the rules on posting about radio
> only have probably been suspended on this board... hell it
> might be the only outlet for some people, but I shouldn't
> get so damn passionate.
>

Steve...

Well-said, my friend. Thanks for saying it so eloquently.
 
It looks, painfully, that there was a preference in
> helping the folks in Mississippi which are predominantly
> Repulican as opposed to N.O. urban dwellers who are vastly
> more Democrat.


Obviously, you've never been to Jackson. Some of my family lives in Mississippi, 100 miles north of NO, and they still don't have lights, water, or fuel either. The Red Cross didn't show up until a day before they did in NO, and the National Guard is still not there as far as I know. I have friends in the (white) suburbs of NO, and the Red Cross and Salvation Army just got there yesterday. The national media is not reporting this.

The only reason there were more troops at first in South Mississippi is that there's a huge Guard base between Gulfport and Hattiesburg. It was even heavily damaged, BTW. Normally, they could have quickly gone to NO on I-10, but the bridges are gone. There are so many people in this board who never been to MS or LA, but they think they know everything about them.
 
I call BS!

> On the federal level, EVERYTHING is run out of the White
> House and nothing gets done or does anything wihtout White
> House permission in order to assure that the agencies toe
> the Bush/Rove line. What you are seeing is the result of
> fundamental failure of leadership at the local, state, and
> federal levels. This was a disaster that everyone knew would
> come, yet until the storm was imminent, nothing was done.
> The military and national guard proved that they have the
> resouces and skills to save people, but the politicos
> couldn't get their acts together with enough foresight to
> assure that relief efforts could come in a timely matter.
>

First, Governor Blanco has to request the help. The State of Louisiana is the one that determines where the need is for all the supplies - the supplies were ready but no one from the state directed where they should go. Either the state government was shell shocked by the disaster, or was clueless. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was the first selection - but the fact that the federal government pointed out previously that the levees were a concern for New Orleans, that there was a large population of people that had no means of transportation out of the city were well known prior to the hurricane. The Mayor and Governor will have to answer to that.

The problem is, where do we go from here? This will be a long term recovery, or months and years. How many are in it for the long haul, and how many citizens of the New Orleans area will never return, making new lives elsewhere?
 
> "You just leanr and adjust you plan for next time. "
>
> Are you kidding me??? Thousands are going to die when it's
> all said and done, and we just learn our lesson and move
> on????


You missed my point.


>
> We can point the finger all day as to who is responsible for
> the floods, but I do fault our federal government for taking
> so long. And, I voted for Bush in both elections. I'm not
> sure after this if I would vote for him again if he could
> run in 2008. It's been embarassing.
>
> The police are looting (reports say they had very little
> food), no one was in control, and people were stranded and
> dying. The federal government has a duty...get in there and
> get things under control. And I am tired of these officials
> patting themselves on the back. Ridiculous.
>
> This would have been a moment to shine. Instead, it will be
> turned into a political issue and will define the presidency
> of George W. Bush.
>
> God help all of those people that are still stranded and God
> bless those that perished. What a sad time for America...not
> only did we lose thousands, but we have learned that the
> leadership that we trusted really did not exist.
>
>
>
> > OH GOOD FREAKING GOD.
> >
> > Should this not be a LOCAL and STATE problem more than a
> > federal?? The local government knows the area better than
>
> > the federal government and should have the plan in place
> to
> > get proper aid to the area of course with the help of the
> > federal government.
> >
> > If you are pinning this on the President you are looking
> in
> > the wrong direction. The Local and state governments are
> > the one you need to look at. With the geographical
> > situation that N.O. is in, if the city hall didnt have a
> > plan for this, well god help us all. The Federal
> > Governement should be there at the request of the state
> and
> > local government, and working off of the State and local
> > government plans. The Federal governement should not come
>
> > into the area and say "This is how it should be done".
> >
> > A prime example of how it should be done is what happend
> at
> > 9/11. Guliani took control and got the help of the
> federal
> > government.
> >
> > All that being said, no matter how much you plan there
> will
> > be thing that fall through the cracks, especially with the
>
> > storm of this size. You just leanr and adjust you plan
> for
> > next time.
> >
> > > What the sad part is he could care less... this is his
> > last
> > > term anyways, now what about Kanye West...he was right
> at
> >
> > > some points but to make this a racial issue is
> wong...its
> > > more of a demographic issue... the ones who were
> stranded
> > > are poor and in poverty so the government could care
> less
> > if
> > > they die...like one woman said in the astrodome when it
> > > comes to voting they are important but after the
> election
> > > they could care less....
> > >
> > > Sorry to say this but this country mostly runs on money
> > and
> > > greed.
> > >
> > > I bet if is New Orleans was another beverly hills
> (wealthy
> >
> > > people) then there would have been help sent right away
> > > (federal and private)
> > >
> > >
> > > > > What in the world is wrong with our federal
> > government?
> > >
> > > > > What in the world is wrong with our president?
> > > > >
> > > > In my opinion, I have a feeling that this event will
> > have
> > > > the President's popularity sink even lower, as a
> result
> > of
> > >
> > > > skyrocketing gas prices (now independent of oil
> prices)
> > > and
> > > > his snail's-pace reaction to Katrina.
> > > >
> > > > When you come to think of it, Iraq is today's
> "Vietnam",
> >
> > > > Bush is our "Nixon", and Katrina's our "Watergate".
> > > >
> > > > Looks like history is repeating itself.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
 
According to a person from the Army Corp of Engineers, that this storm was so bad that even of the levees were up to Cat 5 standards they still may not have held. You know there is only so much you can do. Nature is powerful. This was the "Perfect Storm". In life nothing is 100%.

We all seem to be pointing fingers. We dont need that right now. Instead join me in getting supplies to the people that need help.



> Goood poits....HOWEVER.....from what I gave been hearing is
> that back in 1999 he was told that those levies would NOT
> WITHOLD at Cat 4 hurricane, so he went ahead and plaaned to
> get them repaired but when push came to shove and he was
> running out of money because of the War in Iraq Pres Bush
> took most of the federal funds...and well... no money = no
> fixing of the levy. And you are right about local
> government, with a mayor who just gave up and said they
> shouldnt rebuild shouldnt even show his face when the water
> receeds and NOLA becomes a grat city again....as compared to
> 9/11 2 buildings falling down is one thing....this is a
> WHOLE city (or from what I heard 80%) that is under water...
> the towers cannot equal 80% of NY.
>
> one last thing....It mostly takes FEDERAL money for local
> and state government to run.
>
>
> > OH GOOD FREAKING GOD.
> >
> > Should this not be a LOCAL and STATE problem more than a
> > federal?? The local government knows the area better than
>
> > the federal government and should have the plan in place
> to
> > get proper aid to the area of course with the help of the
> > federal government.
> >
> > If you are pinning this on the President you are looking
> in
> > the wrong direction. The Local and state governments are
> > the one you need to look at. With the geographical
> > situation that N.O. is in, if the city hall didnt have a
> > plan for this, well god help us all. The Federal
> > Governement should be there at the request of the state
> and
> > local government, and working off of the State and local
> > government plans. The Federal governement should not come
>
> > into the area and say "This is how it should be done".
> >
> > A prime example of how it should be done is what happend
> at
> > 9/11. Guliani took control and got the help of the
> federal
> > government.
> >
> > All that being said, no matter how much you plan there
> will
> > be thing that fall through the cracks, especially with the
>
> > storm of this size. You just leanr and adjust you plan
> for
> > next time.
> >
>
> >
>
 
> What in the world is wrong with our federal government?
> What in the world is wrong with our president?
>

Subject: Re: It's time to step up, People [re: TroyG] [ Reply ]
Posted by: CCRC Guy
Posts: 94
Status: Offline
Posted on: 09/04/05 01:32 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been watching from the sidelines, but since this board is now a free-for-all...

First off, don't tell people in Louisiana to step up. Every community in this state either got obliterated by the storm or is filled to capacity with people seeking refugee. We are doing our part.

Secondly, the law requires that the states request federal help to come in. It's easy to blame W, but before you do, blame Blank-O and her indecisiveness. If you aren't in the local area, you don't see her painting the rosy picture. She tried to go through our senator - Mary Landrieu - to get the help we need. That's why the $10.5 billion was passed before we got anyone here.

I have friends where I work that are at FEMA Regional HQ right now. The word from them - and these are not FEMA employees toeing the government line - is that FEMA has truckloads and truckloads of stuff for us, but no one on the state level will tell them where to bring it. FEMA doesn't run the show. The state runs the show. FEMA is just there to make sure that all of the supplies are porvided. After all, Mississippi took it bad too, but they have the help they need. Why? Because they asked for it.

Go ahead. Tell me I am wrong. Let your hatred from W blind you from the facts. CSPAN was running congressional hearings yesterday that were shot in June. The Hurricane Center Director (Max somthing with an M) predicted this very thing. He said the levees wouldn't hold. He said that NOLA could not evacuate everyone because there are 125K people without cars. Experts tried to warn people that this would happen, but no one would listen.

Understand, I am not saying anyone is blameless. Nagin didn't have a pre-storm plan that was worth a s---. Blanco seemed to have assumed that since OEP couldn't hear from New Orleans, that everything was fine. Bush should have pushed more for Blanco to ask for help. Mississippi had 2000 guards in Biloxi-Gulfport Tuesday night. New Orleans? 120. That specifically falls on the state. The media has plenty of blame to take also. Don't roll in with your sat. trucks and sat. phones and report that communications are down. Use those to help link up the first reponders. I would hope that people coordinating rescue efforts aren't watching TV.

And finally, it troubles me that we are raising people to depend on the government for everything. Specifically, I am talking about the Convention Center people. Help wasn't coming. Get up and leave. This is an example of government failing on every level, starting with the local leadership on up to the state and even federal on some levels. People need to start looking out for #1.

One question though... What happened to our naval ships? There were supposed to be 4 coming, plus that big USS Comfort hospital ship. Where are they?

______________
Crescent City Radio Connection
Zephyr Radio
 
Re: Response From An 8th Generation New Orleanian

>
> My hometown...MY CITY...New Orleans is dying! Platitudes
> from the Prez don't get the job done nor do half-hearted
> defenses of the man from you.
>

Then why didn't the Govenor call in the FEDS? It is by law that the State must call in the FEDS. In Mississippi the FEDs were called in and the National Guard was there on TUESDAY!

****scratching my head for an answer???****
 
Re: Response From An 8th Generation New Orleanian

> >
> > My hometown...MY CITY...New Orleans is dying! Platitudes
> > from the Prez don't get the job done nor do half-hearted
> > defenses of the man from you.
> >
>
> Then why didn't the Govenor call in the FEDS? It is by law
> that the State must call in the FEDS. In Mississippi the
> FEDs were called in and the National Guard was there on
> TUESDAY!
>
> ****scratching my head for an answer???****
>

When it comes to a national emergency...natural or man-made...FEMA/Homeland Security supercede the authority of the Governor of any state. The law took effect over a year ago.

Besides...the Governor can't call up National Guardsmen to serve within the state when most of those National Guardsmen are thousands of miles away fighting a war as front-line troops...sent there by your President.

Try again...
 
Feds Folded; Folks Fu**ed!

> According to a person from the Army Corp of Engineers, that
> this storm was so bad that even of the levees were up to Cat
> 5 standards they still may not have held. You know there is
> only so much you can do. Nature is powerful. This was the
> "Perfect Storm". In life nothing is 100%.
>

Your ignorance of the facts is appalling:

The levees were designed to withstand a Category 3 storm. The latest measurements showed that the storm that hit New Orleans was no more than a Category 2. The winds were measured in N.O. at about 100 mph. (The storm veered East and the biggest part of the storm hit Mississippi and Alabama; they were slammed with no levees.)

Now, there will be an investigation of whether the US Government cut funding for the maintainance of the existing levees, took money set aside for improving the levees and the pumping stations to use to fund the Iraq war and Homeland Security and what the response was from the Feds, FEMA and Homeland Security.

Add to those facts that the National Guard was unavailable in the numbers needed because they were sent to Iraq as front-line troops...something for which they were not supposed to be.

Finally, many studies over the last five or ten years about what would happen if the levees were NOT improved or maintained were ignored by the Feds. They bear much of any blame that is ascribed.

Your President and his policies failed New Orleans as much...or more...than any levee ever could. Truth hurts, doesn't it...


> We all seem to be pointing fingers. We dont need that right
> now. Instead join me in getting supplies to the people that
> need help.
 
Re: truth check

> > People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
>
> Oooh. That's good. I'm writing that one down.
>

Typical, Mr. Bush: when you should be leading this country..you are otherwise busy doing squat.

I can't wait till you and your plastic Stepford-wife of a spouse have been relegated to the scrap-heap of history down in Crawford.

Write THAT one down.
 
Re: Response From An 8th Generation New Orleanian

> Then why didn't the Govenor call in the FEDS? It is by law
> that the State must call in the FEDS. In Mississippi the
> FEDs were called in and the National Guard was there on
> TUESDAY!
>
> ****scratching my head for an answer???****


It's called Camp Shelby. It's 40 miles north of Gulfport, and they still didn't get there until Tuesday, due to heavy damage at the base and thousands of trees down along the way.
 
Re: truth check

> I can't wait till you and your plastic Stepford-wife of a
> spouse have been relegated to the scrap-heap of history down
> in Crawford.
>
> Write THAT one down.
>

Psst.. Val, it's just a screen name..
 
Re: I call BS!

> First, Governor Blanco has to request the help. The State
> of Louisiana is the one that determines where the need is
> for all the supplies - the supplies were ready but no one
> from the state directed where they should go. Either the
> state government was shell shocked by the disaster, or was
> clueless. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say
> it was the first selection - but the fact that the federal
> government pointed out previously that the levees were a
> concern for New Orleans, that there was a large population
> of people that had no means of transportation out of the
> city were well known prior to the hurricane. The Mayor and
> Governor will have to answer to that.

No one doubts there was a failure on the local and state level, but the Federal Government was not prepared to go at a moment's notice upon request from the State. In prior emergencies in Florida, the Feds were right there and ready to to roll when the request was made. No one has yet given an explanation why the Feds took until Thursday/Friday to finally get geared up and roll into the city. Chertoff said this morning on CNN that they didn't expect the storm or its severity, yet his agency was predicting three days before landfall that the storm would be severe, was highly likely to strike the area, and that the destruction would be catastrophic. These statements are absolutely irreconciable. Furthermore, the ad hominem attacks by the adminstration are already starting against anyone who challenges the response. Absolutely incredible! The current administration can plan and execute political and ideological campaigns and wars, but can't get herd turtles to address a national crisis. One can only pray for the folks of the Gulf Coast... I certainly am.

> The problem is, where do we go from here? This will be a
> long term recovery, or months and years. How many are in it
> for the long haul, and how many citizens of the New Orleans
> area will never return, making new lives elsewhere?
 
Re: Response From An 8th Generation New Orleanian

> >
> > Then why didn't the Govenor call in the FEDS? It is by
> > law that the State must call in the FEDS. In Mississippi
> > the FEDs were called in and the National Guard was there
> > on TUESDAY!
> >
> > ****scratching my head for an answer???****
> >
>
> When it comes to a national emergency...natural or
> man-made...FEMA/Homeland Security supercede the authority of
> the Governor of any state. The law took effect over a year
> ago.
>

So you are saying that the Mayor nor the Governor needed to make any phones calls to get the FEDs in?

You have a link for this new "law" that seems to have appeared out of nowhere...


> Besides...the Governor can't call up National Guardsmen to
> serve within the state when most of those National Guardsmen
> are thousands of miles away fighting a war as front-line
> troops...sent there by your President.
>


There is plenty of National Guard in the States including in Louisana. The Texas National Guard was at the Superdome on TUESDAY!

Try again....
 
Re: Feds Folded; Folks Fu**ed!

> The levees were designed to withstand a Category 3 storm.
> The latest measurements showed that the storm that hit New
> Orleans was no more than a Category 2. The winds were
> measured in N.O. at about 100 mph.

You are simply wrong. Where did you get those numbers? I'd get a refund!


> Now, there will be an investigation of whether the US
> Government cut funding for the maintainance of the existing
> levees, took money set aside for improving the levees and
> the pumping stations to use to fund the Iraq war and...

The portions of the levee that were breached were never a portion that was under consideration for those funds that you speak about. The areas that were breached were considered newer and not in need of attention. (reference: Army Corp of Engineers)

The money ($42M or so) that N.O. did get for the levees the city squandered on non levee items.

It is interesting to see how you spin this to the Iraq War.
 
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