Few Americans use HD Radio

[davideduardo]

I believe Radio World news item linked satellite radio and iNiquity. I don't mind being misquoted. I rather like it. You see, lovers of legit radio, the more they protest.....

As far as I know, iBiquity has no dealings with satellite.

HD's lack of monthly fee means 'bye-bye' satellite? That trial by flatulence balloon pops even more quickly than Stooge-radio jams legit broadcasters.

Satellite is failing all on its lonesome. The two companies can not make it, sales are at a standstill, they lost over a billion dollars last year, and want to merge to survive.

Do analog AM and FM have monthly fees? No. So why haven't XM and/or Sirius already gone 'bye-bye? What will allegedly free Stooge-radio do to satellite radio that analog hasn't?

But satellite does offer more channels, and digital audio. The consumer is obcessed with digital, any digital. So they get digital, and many more channels on free HD AM and FM.

HD's tremendous costs in terms of damage, present and future, are apparent..

Broadcasters disagree. We see adittional profits, and a life extension for radio.

People chose satellite because, despite gaseous phony protests, KronyKasters won't take risks.

Neither will the satellite companies, unless you call cussing by stern and Opie & Anthony a "risk." Since profanity and indecency are not allowed on terrestrial radio, that is a risk we can't take... and most of us do not want to, anyway.

They fire most talent and stifle the few that remain. How will digital fix that?

That is just absurd. We are always looking for new talent, and reward the existing talent amazingly well.

As for fee-free HD, isn't that a soon to be 'inoperative statement'? Announced this week, TeamBLoc - oh, how boldly innovative! - is exploring paid-programs on HD.

They did not announce paid programming. After checking, I find that NPR is testing using a data streams, not channels, to do things like feed updates to GPS units in cars with stuff like traffic reports and stock tickers. NOT RADIO PROGRAMMING:

Also announced - via telling circumlocutions - iNiquity is working with navigation companies to provide positioning assistance or something over HD.

No, what they are talking about is data to update real time GPS traffic watch units, as well as stocks, commodity markets, etc. I jus trealized that the HD radio that comes in my car is capable of updating local roadmaps with traffic alerts if this sytem is implemente (it currently gets data from an SCA).

 

[radiopilot]

HD radio means goodbye monthly subscription fee. Who wants to pay for either of those two operations which might go out of business because as much as you wish, not enough people want what they are selling.

Yeah..... That's why Chrysler is now offering the option of this service for all it's new cars and I don't see that option for HD radio?

What gives... these people who would buy this new TV service are the same ones paying the subscription fees for DSS satelite, cellphones, high speed broadband cable or DSL, etc. You think they would care about another 7 dollars a month for subscription to get this new service... maybe the ones getting Sirius or XM satelite and perhaps this new TV subscription make a little more money than you make a year? That must be it... they can PAY for this programming and don't care about FREE lousy HD programming... THAT'S IT!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/AUTOS/03/29/siri.reut/index.html?eref=rss_latest

 

[Mike Walker]

Satellite radio has been on the market damn near as many years as HD has months (since 2001 vs. six to nine months for HD radio products. It took YEARS before satellite was widely available. And it was pretty difficult for my wife and me to find XM on a car we actually liked last year (she insisted the stereo be factory installed). The idea that it would have even been possible for HD to have caught up is silly at best, woefully ignorant at worst.

 

[radiopilot]

Satellite radio has been on the market damn near as many years as HD has months (since 2001 vs. six to nine months for HD radio products. It took YEARS before satellite was widely available. And it was pretty difficult for my wife and me to find XM on a car we actually liked last year (she insisted the stereo be factory installed). The idea that it would have even been possible for HD to have caught up is silly at best, woefully ignorant at worst.

There were billions spent on getting satelite just ready to get it's programming started with consumers... what with the FCC, Congress, programming, talent, devices, etc... imagine if there was no radio to speak of and all of a sudden someone got the idea to make terrestial broadcast stations but it had to encompass across all of the U.S., imagine the startup costs involved, regulatory agencies involved, talent, programming, etc.? They'd be at an operating loss for some time before they started getting into the black...

Sorry but your rant on this doesn't make satelite radio either for XM or Sirius a failure... but for terrestial radio to be here for decades continuing to be failures speaks of it's own buisness demise... don't blame it on satelite radio as there are millions of satisfied PAYING customers... I don't see those millions willing to buy the HD radios or even giving the free analog radio a serious take either!

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

Satellite radio has been on the market damn near as many years as HD has months (since 2001 vs. six to nine months for HD radio products. It took YEARS before satellite was widely available. And it was pretty difficult for my wife and me to find XM on a car we actually liked last year (she insisted the stereo be factory installed). The idea that it would have even been possible for HD to have caught up is silly at best, woefully ignorant at worst.

There were billions spent on getting satelite just ready to get it's programming started with consumers... what with the FCC, Congress, programming, talent, devices, etc... imagine if there was no radio to speak of and all of a sudden someone got the idea to make terrestial broadcast stations but it had to encompass across all of the U.S., imagine the startup costs involved, regulatory agencies involved, talent, programming, etc.? They'd be at an operating loss for some time before they started getting into the black...

Sorry but your rant on this doesn't make satelite radio either for XM or Sirius a failure... but for terrestial radio to be here for decades continuing to be failures speaks of it's own buisness demise... don't blame it on satelite radio as there are millions of satisfied PAYING customers... I don't see those millions willing to buy the HD radios or even giving the free analog radio a serious take either!

Radiopilot

One of the differences between us is that you talk of Satellite radio. I know people who work for it and there aren't millions of paying customers. That's the line they feed you and the gullible. Even if they have 20 millions subscribers, which they don't. Terrestrials have hundreds of millions of listeners. Why is it that XM & Sirius want to merge if the picture is that cheery? By the way, if you want to discuss the virtues of Satellite radio there's a board for that, where all your gowing remarks about those two companies will be happily received. I wonder how the satellite boards would like to talk about digital terestrial radio in their forum?

 

[Mike Walker]

Exactly RF. Why exactly are people allowed to babble on about satellite radio, internet radio, podcasts, etc...ON THIS BOARD? I'll never understand. I wish there was an "I hate everything" board where these people could go, yell at each other (or themselves) and leave us alone!

 

[R.F. Burns]

Exactly RF. Why exactly are people allowed to babble on about satellite radio, internet radio, podcasts, etc...ON THIS BOARD? I'll never understand. I wish there was an "I hate everything" board where these people could go, yell at each other (or themselves) and leave us alone!

Mike the reason I think other technologies are discussed here (and I find this on general boards as well) is that these other technologies feel threatened by HD. They thought they had the field to themselves and that free radio was going to continue to decline as their ranks grew. What they failed to see was that traditional broadcasters wouldn't go silently into the night. Instead HD has come along and apparently no matter what they say publically, they believe that traditonal broadcasters have come up with a system which they hadn't envisioned. That's the view of some of the die hard satellite subscibers. Then there are the streamers who believed that their talents were being overlooked and when the playing field is level their chance will come. Then there's the traditional DXer. I sympathize with them being a Dxer myself. They see the broadcast bands filled with noise caused by a method of transmission which they can not decifer and even if they could it would be from a local station. They key here is that if you really desire to listen to distant stations you can do so on the internet with better fidelity and a more stable signal then with any radio known to mankind. If what you want is distance, you can try long wave DXing and even do some 160 meter Dxing. There are alternatives. Then there are those who have some kind of attachment to either Kahn or the FMXtra people. They don't like the fact that the competition has won the battle and that with the sad history of AM stereo this whole marketplace thing isn't going to be tried again. Hey, even if you allowed the marketplace to decide, you can't buy D-Cam or FMXtra radios so I think the answer to that question is pretty sinple. then there's the small broadcaster who feels that the price for going digital is out of their league and only serves to put them even further behind the larger stations giving these stations yet another advantage. Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

 

[Mike Walker]

Well they shouldn't be so damn insecure. I've always seen satellite and internet as supplementary services. HBO and Showtime didn't replace my local tv stations. Neither will anything from "out there" replace local radio. And it (local radio) will transition to digital, just as with all other media. Those of us in radio know this transition began not last year, or in 2002, but more than a decade and a half ago.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Exactly RF. Why exactly are people allowed to babble on about satellite radio, internet radio, podcasts, etc...ON THIS BOARD? I'll never understand. I wish there was an "I hate everything" board where these people could go, yell at each other (or themselves) and leave us alone!

Mike the reason I think other technologies are discussed here (and I find this on general boards as well) is that these other technologies feel threatened by HD. They thought they had the field to themselves and that free radio was going to continue to decline as their ranks grew. What they failed to see was that traditional broadcasters wouldn't go silently into the night. Instead HD has come along and apparently no matter what they say publically, they believe that traditonal broadcasters have come up with a system which they hadn't envisioned. That's the view of some of the die hard satellite subscibers. Then there are the streamers who believed that their talents were being overlooked and when the playing field is level their chance will come. Then there's the traditional DXer. I sympathize with them being a Dxer myself. They see the broadcast bands filled with noise caused by a method of transmission which they can not decifer and even if they could it would be from a local station. They key here is that if you really desire to listen to distant stations you can do so on the internet with better fidelity and a more stable signal then with any radio known to mankind. If what you want is distance, you can try long wave DXing and even do some 160 meter Dxing. There are alternatives. Then there are those who have some kind of attachment to either Kahn or the FMXtra people. They don't like the fact that the competition has won the battle and that with the sad history of AM stereo this whole marketplace thing isn't going to be tried again. Hey, even if you allowed the marketplace to decide, you can't buy D-Cam or FMXtra radios so I think the answer to that question is pretty sinple. then there's the small broadcaster who feels that the price for going digital is out of their league and only serves to put them even further behind the larger stations giving these stations yet another advantage. Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

Nice fantasy story Mr. Burns. No one seems threatened by your wild claims of remote mind reading of strangers motives, and your false characterizations of their intent.
http://www.psychicfriendsnetwork.net/

Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

Certainly at least one at your house.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Exactly RF. Why exactly are people allowed to babble on about satellite radio, internet radio, podcasts, etc...ON THIS BOARD? I'll never understand. I wish there was an "I hate everything" board where these people could go, yell at each other (or themselves) and leave us alone!

Mike the reason I think other technologies are discussed here (and I find this on general boards as well) is that these other technologies feel threatened by HD. They thought they had the field to themselves and that free radio was going to continue to decline as their ranks grew. What they failed to see was that traditional broadcasters wouldn't go silently into the night. Instead HD has come along and apparently no matter what they say publically, they believe that traditonal broadcasters have come up with a system which they hadn't envisioned. That's the view of some of the die hard satellite subscibers. Then there are the streamers who believed that their talents were being overlooked and when the playing field is level their chance will come. Then there's the traditional DXer. I sympathize with them being a Dxer myself. They see the broadcast bands filled with noise caused by a method of transmission which they can not decifer and even if they could it would be from a local station. They key here is that if you really desire to listen to distant stations you can do so on the internet with better fidelity and a more stable signal then with any radio known to mankind. If what you want is distance, you can try long wave DXing and even do some 160 meter Dxing. There are alternatives. Then there are those who have some kind of attachment to either Kahn or the FMXtra people. They don't like the fact that the competition has won the battle and that with the sad history of AM stereo this whole marketplace thing isn't going to be tried again. Hey, even if you allowed the marketplace to decide, you can't buy D-Cam or FMXtra radios so I think the answer to that question is pretty sinple. then there's the small broadcaster who feels that the price for going digital is out of their league and only serves to put them even further behind the larger stations giving these stations yet another advantage. Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

Nice fantasy story Mr. Burns. No one seems threatened by your wild claims of remote mind reading of strangers motives, and your false characterizations of their intent.
http://www.psychicfriendsnetwork.net/

Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

Certainly at least one at your house.

Uhhh, isn't there a clause in the agreement about name calling and not just of me but of my entire family, nice touch. So I must have hit a nerve if it's come to this. Don't like digital radio, then what are you doing here? By the way Super, next time you reply try not to place your keyboard in front of a mirror.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

R. F. Burns:
Your name calling, not mine. I just zeroed in on the location of the source, and made no mention of your "entire family", as you, once again, falsely claim. You were the one who is doing all the name calling:

Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

I would assume your house would be included in your claim of "everywhere", unless your house is nowhere.

Then R. F. Burns said:

Don't like digital radio, then what are you doing here?

I love digital radio in almost every one of it's implementations. The only digital radio I don't like is the iBiquity/HD Alliance destructive adjacent channel method. FMeXtra www.dreinc.com was fully approved by the FCC before iBiquity's destructive, method, and does no harm.
The title of this discussion board is "HD Radio", not "HD Radio/iBiquity Lovers, Pushers, Promoters, Sales, Peddlers, and Hucksters" board. If you can't stand (or understand) discussion, then what are you doing here?

 

[radiopilot]

One of the differences between us is that you talk of Satellite radio. I know people who work for it and there aren't millions of paying customers. That's the line they feed you and the gullible. Even if they have 20 millions subscribers, which they don't. Terrestrials have hundreds of millions of listeners. Why is it that XM & Sirius want to merge if the picture is that cheery? By the way, if you want to discuss the virtues of Satellite radio there's a board for that, where all your gowing remarks about those two companies will be happily received. I wonder how the satellite boards would like to talk about digital terestrial radio in their forum?

Yeah... as a content provider for XM & Siruius as you mentioned in some other post... YOU would know about how much sales and paying customers the satelite providers are doing... YEAH....

The only ones gullible are the HD croonies that believe THEIR system is top notch and everyone in America is listening to HD on an HD radio.... HD radio board is for anyone wanting to discuss the experiences, virtues or interference of the radio in particular the HD noise and jamming HD causes... now as en engineer much as many are here it's inherent to discuss the problems in a system to repair or replace the system... You seem to have a problem with that... If you were my employee and continued to PUSH only your idea above everyone elses even though theirs was better... you'd be on the unemployment line along with the ones insisting your idea was best as long as they stood to 'cash in' on your idea...

I have no problem with satelite, they promise exactly what they deliver... I know the full extent of what I payed for... but HD radio was PUSHED upon the public without an utterance of public debate by the KNOWING public... too bad the average citizen didn't know the FCC and the NAB/Ibiquity corporate types pushed this system onto them without full knowledge of what they did till they complain about their 'defective' radios as you point out!

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

R. F. Burns:
Your name calling, not mine. I just zeroed in on the location of the source, and made no mention of your "entire family", as you, once again, falsely claim. You were the one who is doing all the name calling:

Finally you have the nuts and liars and they are everywhere.

I would assume your house would be included in your claim of "everywhere", unless your house is nowhere.

Then R. F. Burns said:

Don't like digital radio, then what are you doing here?

I love digital radio in almost every one of it's implementations. The only digital radio I don't like is the iBiquity/HD Alliance destructive adjacent channel method. FMeXtra www.dreinc.com was fully approved by the FCC before iBiquity's destructive, method, and does no harm.
The title of this discussion board is "HD Radio", not "HD Radio/iBiquity Lovers, Pushers, Promoters, Sales, Peddlers, and Hucksters" board. If you can't stand (or understand) discussion, then what are you doing here?

Name calling? Did I mention you or any members of your family? I didn't make it personal in any way. As I said something must have hit home to get you so upset but any reasonable person would say that you over reacted and that once you claimed that there was at least 1 (indicating that there may be more than 1) you went over the line.


As for the other digital systems, they lost. IBOC has been accepted and the other haven't. It's that simple. You don't like IBOC for whatever reason, that's fine but it doesn't change reality. I'm not making any statement that isn't true.

 

[dbdigital]

While RF recovers from his apoplexy let's get back to the topic: few Americans use HD-R.

Yesterday I went into a brand new Circuit City store in Signal Hill shopping for a LCD TV. While there I wandered the aisles checking out all of their displays. They had several well-stocked ones including one for satellite radio which contained a wide range of units for home and car. But there was nothing for HD-Radio.

Next I went to a local Ken Crane's and, surprise!, they actually had a BA Recepter on display with an invitation to "Discover It!" Unfortunately, the invitation to discover it was a little hard to do since the Recepter was unplugged. I should also mention that I was the only customer who showed any interest in the radio. No one else even gave it a glance.

With poor (or no) showings like this, I don't know how anyone can think that HD-R is going to generate consumer excitement. You people who are HD-R boosters are wasting your precious time writing here. You need to be campaigning and whining to these retailers (not that I care).

db

 

[PocketRadio]

Here is a snippet from an HD Radio reporter, whose name I shall not mention:

"I'm not about to rush out and buy a $300 radio and I doubt most ********* readers will do that, either."

 

[IBOCRocks]

Here is a snippet from an HD Radio reporter, whose name I shall not mention:

"I'm not about to rush out and buy a $300 radio and I doubt most ********* readers will do that, either."

Then it's a good thing that there are plenty of radios priced well under $300.

Problem solved.

 

[R.F. Burns]

While RF recovers from his apoplexy let's get back to the topic: few Americans use HD-R.

Yesterday I went into a brand new Circuit City store in Signal Hill shopping for a LCD TV. While there I wandered the aisles checking out all of their displays. They had several well-stocked ones including one for satellite radio which contained a wide range of units for home and car. But there was nothing for HD-Radio.

Next I went to a local Ken Crane's and, surprise!, they actually had a BA Recepter on display with an invitation to "Discover It!" Unfortunately, the invitation to discover it was a little hard to do since the Recepter was unplugged. I should also mention that I was the only customer who showed any interest in the radio. No one else even gave it a glance.

With poor (or no) showings like this, I don't know how anyone can think that HD-R is going to generate consumer excitement. You people who are HD-R boosters are wasting your precious time writing here. You need to be campaigning and whining to these retailers (not that I care).

db

Let's see where we are two years from now. If IBOC fails I still have an outstanding tuner for DXing and it was only $200 very reasonable dollars. If it's a success, then I guess you guys will have to find something else to complain about. Either way I win

 

[PocketRadio]

While RF recovers from his apoplexy let's get back to the topic: few Americans use HD-R.

Yesterday I went into a brand new Circuit City store in Signal Hill shopping for a LCD TV. While there I wandered the aisles checking out all of their displays. They had several well-stocked ones including one for satellite radio which contained a wide range of units for home and car. But there was nothing for HD-Radio.

Next I went to a local Ken Crane's and, surprise!, they actually had a BA Recepter on display with an invitation to "Discover It!" Unfortunately, the invitation to discover it was a little hard to do since the Recepter was unplugged. I should also mention that I was the only customer who showed any interest in the radio. No one else even gave it a glance.

With poor (or no) showings like this, I don't know how anyone can think that HD-R is going to generate consumer excitement. You people who are HD-R boosters are wasting your precious time writing here. You need to be campaigning and whining to these retailers (not that I care).

db

Let's see where we are two years from now. If IBOC fails I still have an outstanding tuner for DXing and it was only $200 very reasonable dollars. If it's a success, then I guess you guys will have to find something else to complain about. Either way I win

Pretty expensive for just an AM/FM radio - no wonder, consumers are not biting. HD Radio offers little extra value for such expensive receivers. No reason for consumers to spend over $50 - AM/FM boom-boxes, with built-in CD players are good enough. I saw the picture of the Sangean, which is mostly hollow inside - another HD Radio ripoff.

 

[IBOCRocks]

While RF recovers from his apoplexy let's get back to the topic: few Americans use HD-R.

Yesterday I went into a brand new Circuit City store in Signal Hill shopping for a LCD TV. While there I wandered the aisles checking out all of their displays. They had several well-stocked ones including one for satellite radio which contained a wide range of units for home and car. But there was nothing for HD-Radio.

Next I went to a local Ken Crane's and, surprise!, they actually had a BA Recepter on display with an invitation to "Discover It!" Unfortunately, the invitation to discover it was a little hard to do since the Recepter was unplugged. I should also mention that I was the only customer who showed any interest in the radio. No one else even gave it a glance.

With poor (or no) showings like this, I don't know how anyone can think that HD-R is going to generate consumer excitement. You people who are HD-R boosters are wasting your precious time writing here. You need to be campaigning and whining to these retailers (not that I care).

db

Let's see where we are two years from now. If IBOC fails I still have an outstanding tuner for DXing and it was only $200 very reasonable dollars. If it's a success, then I guess you guys will have to find something else to complain about. Either way I win

Pretty expensive for just an AM/FM radio - no wonder, consumers are not biting. HD Radio offers little extra value for such expensive receivers. No reason for consumers to spend over $50 - AM/FM boom-boxes, with built-in CD players are good enough. I saw the picture of the Sangean, which is mostly hollow inside - another HD Radio ripoff.

Weren't you banned? Oh that's right, you like to brag about using fake email.

Anyway, consumers are biting. You can't refute that radios have been sold. Proof enough!

 

[Tom Wells]

An ecellent DX tuner? Really? What about AM?

I suspect several real radio features are missing from the Sangean.

Does it have selectable or variable bandwidth for the AM, to make it a worthwhile buy for reasons other than HD?

Does it have selectable manual gain / AVC for the AM?

Does it allow continuous tuning to permit me to select a cleaner sideband?

Does it permit balanced and unbalanced antenna inputs on the AM?

Does it have switchable noise blanking for analog AM?

Does it have a display clock disable switch so I can hear AM without the noise of the display intermodulating?
Ditto for the clock in the main CPU for same reasons?

These features might greatly increase the desirability of such a tuner, regardless of the future of HD.

Why wouldn't a modern design acknowledge the supposed tough AM band conditions with these abilities?

None of these things are particularly expensive to do, and are important aspects of any full featured tuner.

No, all the above aren't offered because the design is not really serious about AM reception, is it?
So what they mean is I STILL need all my other radios to do what I bought them for, and I STILL have to buy HD to listen to
people with gurgle/gravel throat in one special place with no hiss, and STILL have to listen to the hiss on all the other radios.

That's what's it's really all about, isn't it?

Are there published AM sensitivity specs, in the standard units?
What is AM analog IF bandwidth specs?
Will the Sangean make the fantastic sounding Canadian AMs sound like a telephone landline, or is it smart enough to adapt the bandwidth out as much as it senses dynamics in the higher frequencies?

I am eager to hear someone post Sangean recordings from AM analog at night from a 50kw @ 500 miles.

Someone show us whether the Sangean is actually a good radio, with a nice aircheck from an AM that hasn't been brickwalled.
I'll grant you it's fine air-link modem.

Prove it's a high quality > radio < to me.