FF vs. CCM

[justalurker]

As for Nickelodeon and Disney channel - both are fine choices for viewing, there is nothing inappropriate on either.

NOTHING inappropriate? I'm sure you would have disagreement with that point. They may be tame compared to other channels but I would not be saying NOTHING inappropriate.

Disney itself has problems because of their pro homosexual policies. Many Christians boycott anything they know to be Disney because of those policies. Do you think none of that mentality makes it into their programming decisions?

Spongebob on Nickelodeon has his own problems. Often seen without his square pants and sometimes with no pants (and butt cheeks drawn in). They even have crude jokes in the script. Yeah, Nick is better than FX but certainly not to the level of "nothing inappropriate".

 

[smashedcd]

Spongebob on Nickelodeon has his own problems. Often seen without his square pants and sometimes with no pants (and butt cheeks drawn in). They even have crude jokes in the script. Yeah, Nick is better than FX but certainly not to the level of "nothing inappropriate".

i hope you are not serious..its a cartoon!!! :

 

[justalurker]

South Park and the Cartoon's Channel "Adult Swim" programs are cartoons.
Just because it is a cartoon does not mean that it can't be inappropriate.

One example from SpongeBob was the one where SpongeBob and Patrick were in the "Fry Cook Challenge". SpongeBob is yellow and Partrick is pink. At the end of the fight they are shouting "Pink" and "Yellow" (their colors) at each other when their underwear is revealed - SpongeBob is wearing pink underwear and Patrick is wearing yellow. The fight ends (as if the underwear color was a sign of support for their friend). Patrick's final word - "these were white when I bought them".

Another example from SpongeBob is their frequent use of euphanisms. Sure, they are not saying the swear words but they are using replacement words. In one episode they were using real swear words and called them "sentence enhancers" that were bleeped out throughout the entire episode. These enhancers were eventually portrayed as bad - but then the character that corrected SpongeBob and Patrick let loose an entirely bleeped tirade of enhancers. A situation were "don't do this" sin was followed by the elder sinning in abundance for the humor of it.

I could go on but these examples should be enough to show that SpongeBob (and Nick) are not at the level of "nothing inappropriate". Sin should always be portrayed as a negative and never laughed at. Children should be taught Godly behaviors not that "almost swearing" is acceptable. After all, it isn't the word said but the intent in the saying that makes it a swear word.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

One example from SpongeBob was the one where SpongeBob and Patrick were in the "Fry Cook Challenge". SpongeBob is yellow and Partrick is pink. At the end of the fight they are shouting "Pink" and "Yellow" (their colors) at each other when their underwear is revealed - SpongeBob is wearing pink underwear and Patrick is wearing yellow. The fight ends (as if the underwear color was a sign of support for their friend). Patrick's final word - "these were white when I bought them".

Nickelodeon animation is almost a completely different entity from their live action unit. The two are in frequent tug-of-wars for air time. I was referring to their live action shows - which are completely clean.

As for the sketch you mentioned, I found it hilarious - and nothing inappropriate. In fact, a little kid who has a problem with accidents might be comforted that one of his cartoon heros is similarly affected.

At least - you didn't spout off the old "Spongebob is gay" lie. Spongebob has a girlfriend - a squirrel named Sandy.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

do you watch only christian news, watch only christian tv, watch only christian movies? if not why do you only listen to christian artists?

Yep - pretty much. I am a proud viewer of Disney Channel, TEENick, and DK. When they are in the middle of reruns, I watch a lot of the science channels. There are a whole lot of movies I will not go to, TV shows I will not watch. I vote with my pocketbook - and clean family entertainment gets my vote.

 

[smashedcd]

do you watch only christian news, watch only christian tv, watch only christian movies? if not why do you only listen to christian artists?

Yep - pretty much. I am a proud viewer of Disney Channel, TEENick, and DK. When they are in the middle of reruns, I watch a lot of the science channels. There are a whole lot of movies I will not go to, TV shows I will not watch. I vote with my pocketbook - and clean family entertainment gets my vote.

disney was airing a tv show one afternoon that was once on ABC. the show was about school kids and sex. and one of them was saying he had slept with one of the girls..it was on disney in the afternoon at about 3pm cst around june 15th. i was on vacation thats how i remember the date. so disney is not all clean. or christian for that matter. larry the cable guy is the voice of mater on cars ;D

 

[rbrucecarter5]

disney was airing a tv show one afternoon that was once on ABC. the show was about school kids and sex. and one of them was saying he had slept with one of the girls..it was on disney in the afternoon at about 3pm cst around june 15th. i was on vacation thats how i remember the date. so disney is not all clean. or christian for that matter. larry the cable guy is the voice of mater on cars ;D

Sounds like "Boy Meets World", only that one has been off Disney channel for at least a couple of years. Are you on a Canadian or UK feed? There were a considerable number of Boy Meets World episodes Disney channel weeded out.

My take on that, if it was a US feed - is that the discussion of that character was somehow portrayed as wrong, harmful, or the character changed through the course of the episode. Nobody has ever accused Disney of being Christian, but they are exposing Biblical principles in the majority of their shows. And I hear there is a big push to reach out to the Christian audience because they know their track record has not been good. Like Nickeolodeon, they are actively recruiting Christian actors and actresses, but can't be blatant about it. But the recent advent of "Hannah Montana" should underscore that they are no longer discriminating against Christians.

As far as Larry the Cable Guy - I put that in the same category as Ellen doing Dory. Openly gay Ellen's biggest role, the one she will be remembered for, is a FISH. Not her lesbian cr_p. So if Larry wants to do a clean part, hire him. Mater put forth the qualities of being a faithful friend in the role, there was not one thing inappropriate. Maybe - if he gets a lot of recognition for that, he might clean up his act. Maybe, if Ellen gets recognized for Dory and other clean roles, she will clean up her act, too.

I try not to hate the person - just what they do if it is sin. Someone I respect a lot knows Ellen and says she is really quite nice. So - if through that friendship, I meet Ellen, I'll meet a nice person. If a friendship develops, she might come to respect my opinion on subjects such as - religion. Would Jesus be out there making friends with sinners and tax collectors? I seem to remember that he did. So I'm not going to get all self righteous about Larry the Cable Guy being in cars or Ellen in Finding Nemo. Neither, I think, should you.

Without seeing the particular episode of Boy Meets World, I can't comment. I do know that Life With Derek, a Canadian import, pushes the limits a little - but in every single case the episode is resolved / the issue resolved in a way that would honor Christ. I suspect the same of Boy Meets World. I do know a number of people on these shows, and I know that Zack and Cody is so strict they wouldn't even let Brenda Song be seen in a bikini for fear of offending the Christian audience. At Hannah Montana, someone pointed out some cleavage on one of the girls, in all subsequent airings, they CG'd a nice modest sweater under her top / cut the footage different. Same at Nickelodeon - I sat on the set of a show and heard the director stop even a suggestion of profanity - "gezz" or something like that. They care about the Christian audience. We ought to be applauding them, not casting stones when they make a small mistake. But instead, Christians tune into CSI, Friends, Seinfeld, and the like which are video sewage.

 

[smashedcd]

i am definitly not being self richous. i was just pointing out that disney with their gay day at disney world and the disney channel in general is not christian.

my point is why only listen to christian music? why bash stations that play U2 or Creed if you (or someone) watch non christian tv? whats wrong with journey? reo speedwagon or even willie nelson? how is listing to secular music wrong but watching secualr tv not?

i personally listen to black sabbath, ozzy, ac/dc, hank 3, shooter jennings, cross canadian ragweed, russ taff, stryper, petra and even the oak ridge boys. i aint self rightous. i just dont understand why one is ok but the other is not?

 

[justalurker]

But (getting back to topic) this does bring up the question of what is Family Friendly. Which is why I suggested that the station pick a standard and stay with it. At least then listeners will know what to expect and if their standards are higher they will know it is time to leave.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

i am definitly not being self richous. i was just pointing out that disney with their gay day at disney world and the disney channel in general is not christian.

my point is why only listen to christian music? why bash stations that play U2 or Creed if you (or someone) watch non christian tv? whats wrong with journey? reo speedwagon or even willie nelson? how is listing to secular music wrong but watching secualr tv not?

i personally listen to black sabbath, ozzy, ac/dc, hank 3, shooter jennings, cross canadian ragweed, russ taff, stryper, petra and even the oak ridge boys. i aint self rightous. i just dont understand why one is ok but the other is not?

OK, need we really say ANYMORE about the homogenization of CCM radio.

If you can honestly listen to Petra in the same hour as BLACK SABBATH, conviction really isn't a player on that iPod. Oh, you only listen for the guitar riffs, right? Please.

That is not self-righteous either, but come on. I am a talk radio addict, love sports, watch several sitcoms and dramas on TV and can completely feel assured about any lack of compromise in my life. If it's pushy, I tune it off. If it's something I don't want my kids to watch (like some of the pseudo-harmless "CARTOONS" others may espouse), then I am fairly certain that my own father in heaven don't want his own kids checking out some crass and offensive joke, soft core or anything of the like.

And before you get bursitis responding to the post, think about it. It's not Pollyanna to consider radio as more of a medium than playing music, but Christian radio (from non-com, to alt, to CCM) was created for a reason. Listeners demanded some cleanliness to their radio; ergo, ratings went through the roof. NOW, unless truisms and boundaries aren't created, CCM will become nothing more than another option for AC. What's that? A new genre? Inspirational AC? Um, not so much.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

SpongeBob seems to be asexual, like most children's cartoons. Which is actually something GOOD to be said about the show. Sandy is just a friend that happens to be a female - not a girlfriend.

Spongebob is a kid - and therefore not that interested in girls. But - he gets jealous of Sandy. Sandy plays things a bit cooler, but seems to enjoy his attention.

Watch the cartoon regularly and be familiar with it before spouting off opinions that are not true. Remember, I have contacts at Nickelodeon. When this nonsense hit the news, all I needed to do was pick up the phone and ask - "Did you intend Spongebob to be gay? Then you better call these people and have them stop spreading negative publicity." The answer was - "NO - Spongebob is a kid. The only adult character on the show is Mr. Crab." That is from the creator of the show - you don't get a more factual than that, folks.

Next topic ----

 

[Board Editor]

Some posts in this topic have been moved to Take It Outside.

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[justalurker]

Apparently an example of "what some see as offensive others see as OK".
(I have no problem with the split.)

I don't see Disney and Nick as 100% family friendly with "nothing inoffensive". But I do know that people who accept Disney and Nick in their homes either know what level of offense they will see on those channels or are oblivious to the offensive content. The same is important to radio ... A station that claims to be "Family Friendly" better define that by their actions and apologize for leaving the "zone".

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Oh and Bruce, I believe my friend Christopher would have to disagree with you. Dallas has a WAY-FM, it's called 89.3 KPWR. ;D

KPWR call letters are assigned to a Los Angeles kip-hop station. 89.3 in the Dallas area is KNON - a non-profit secular station. If you meant 89.7 KVRK - it is not affiliated with the WAY-FM network.

Power FM. I think you knew that one. 8)

They have brought the alt scene in Christendom to Deep Ellum and other areas where folk would have never heard the music. It's a pity that's ALL he plays, but at least it's something that you won't get on KLTY. It's a start.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

I'm not convinced that Jesus would be pigeon-holed into the box some want to place him in. Would Jesus wear a Rolex? Would Jesus only frequent Christian bookstores, listen to K-Love and vote Republican?

As for the original post, I've been in many Christian homes and have seen plenty of Nickolodeon, the Disney Channel and about everything else. I think the folks whose version of "Family Friendly" means "We only watch Little House on the Prarie and Touched by an Angel" are relatively few.

I disagree to a point. These days, in most of the homogenized churches with lukewarm pablum being dictated, "family friendly" is anything removed of conviction that I can still let me kids check out and not feel guilty talking to God about. The Pollyanna days of 60s sitcom television is gone. If you want that, enjoy the Hallmark channel and don't bother leaving the house. However, CCM is selling out a little here.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

The Pollyanna days of 60s sitcom television is gone.

It's BAAAACK!!!! Just as good at the 60's, and just as clean.

Nickelodeon:
Zoey 101
Unfabulous
Ned's DeClassified School Survival Guide
Drake and Josh
iCarly

Disney:
Hannah Montana
The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
Cory in the House
That's So Raven
(coming soon: Wizards of Waverly Place)

Discovery Kids:
Darcy's Wild Life
Flight 29 Down (drama)
Strange Days at Blake Holsey High (sci-fi)

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Speaking of being back... as is the "homogenization" of "family friendly" TV and radio as well. Some of those listings I have heard banned from homes and some networks around the country. Not even all, but some.

Besides, when did witches, wizardry and psychic, paranormal phenomena become nice for the kiddos? Exhibit A, ABC "Family" Channel. Exhibit B? Check out some of those listings above. There has to be a buffer somewhere between everyday family and God's family, doesn't there?

 

[MikefromDelaware]

The litmus test I use when deciding what shows to watch on television, when I watch, is this: I ask myself would I be embarassed if Jesus walked into the room and saw what I was watching. I use the same standard for music I listen to, as well as for radio, movies, and books. A brother in the Lord years ago said this to me, back before I was a Christian: if you fill yourself with junk, then your spirit will be full of junk, if you fill yourself with good stuff then your spirit will be full of good stuff. This was before we had computers, but the ole garbage in garbage out rule would fit here. Unfortunately when dealing with "worldly entertainment" there quite often involves compromise on Godly values, because the "world" doesn't get it so they don't see it as compromise. So it is wise to guard your heart, mind, and spirit and seek good and Godly things. That doesn't mean you shouldn't watch, listen or read family friendly things, but is it really family friendly or the latest version of family friendly (check out ABC Family - a new kind of family, on cable to see a not so family friendly television network).

 

[MyCatKnight]

Back in my rock days, we were consulted against playing "inferior live versions."

obviously that guy had never heard the original versions of peter framptons music. or the original version of ridin the storm out from reo speedwagon ;D because the live versions of both are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than the originals!

It was only the INFERIOR live versions that got banned. IIRC, we only played the live versions of Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Freebird" (1 of our best bathroom break tunes... "what song do you wanna he-ah?"), maybe Kiss' "Rock 'n Roll All Night," etc. That REO song, too (BTW, I heard that lead singer Kevin Cronin announced that ex-Foreigner frontman Lou Graham led him and his son to the Lord). The only exception I remember (when we played more than 1 version of a song) was airing both versions of STP's "Plush" (the loud album version, and the then-fresh, "MTV-Unplugged" version where all these people clapped before the song actually ended).

---

Agreed on your TV litmus test, Mike from Delaware. Then again, most TV really does suck.

---

Back to topic, I can see mixed FF music on secular radio already playing the Daughtry's of the world (Tesh, Delilah, Powerline, etc.). Another possible exception for me is if your market is already flooded with CCM stations and you're trying to stand out as different.

But in the majority of cases. I have great difficulty justifying FF overtaking the CCM format. For instance, I love U2, Creed, King's X, and POD... but while all reportedly have Christians in them, none are Christian bands. Billy Joel's excellent drummer is a Christian named Liberty DeVito. Still, I don't need EITHER the Catholic-ribbing "Only the Good Die Young" OR something innocuous like "Just the Way You Are" taking up airtime better used by the Matt Redmans, Audio Adrenalines, and Plumbs of the world. Don't we have enough difficulty watching out for what the "Christian" artists do or say... without having to worry about the next time Bono lets the "F" word slip or Scott Stapp gets in another fight (and then having to justify why we play songs by _______)?

As for secular radio playing Christian artists, it's all about ratings/money... if the Fray, Evanescence, and Mercy Me weren't so popular, they wouldn't be played. Besides, the U2 listeners won't think about the FF crossover stations, they'll look to their favorite rock station first. Daughtry fans will tune into AC or CHR stations first (too bad the "American Idol" stigma scared off my area's local rockers, I think Daughtry's a good fit for the rock format). I doubt that listeners are thinking about these FF stations as P1's, when they have AC for that.

My mantra is the 15-minute rule: in normal dayparts, anyone tuning in for 15 minutes straight ought to know what to expect when tuned into my station. Outside of weekend specials, two-fers, oldies, blocks of an artist's songs, all-request segments, etc.... is this song indicative of what my station is, and why my listeners tune in? If it's done excellently, then they'll have reason to come back.

 

[smashedcd]

as for kings x. they released an album a few years ago where they basically said ++++ christianity. the lead singer was really really mad at the world at the time. everytime xm 41 the boneyard would play it i would have to change the station the song was so depressing. plus it was the first time kings x used the f word on an album. that being said i definitly wouldnt play kings x on christian radio.