I have built a number of traditional studios over the last 24 years. Most of my projects have been Wheatstone and PR&E analog and digital consoles, etc. This is my first AOIP build. My current project is a two-station, seven-studio facility. I'm looking for honest opinions on Axia vs. Wheatnet. This week I will be speaking to each company to get their pitch. From my own research I'm leaning towards Axia mainly because of the Livewire access to not only automation PC's, but also support PC's. I've read a number of forums and discussions on each. Most comparisons seem to center around the 100 vs. 1000 mb/s, and where the equipment is made, Wheatstone all in USA, and Axia USA /China. Some user experiences, pros and cons of each system, installation issues, etc would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
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First AOIP studio build-out: Axia vs. Wheatnet
- Thread starter fm-engineer
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We installed a Wheatnet routing system at our plant, as part of moving a regional radio satellite network into our building, about three years ago. Initially the system consisted of about three "Blades" (16x16 router modules). At the time, I don't believe Axia had a similar product or we might have considered them.
Since then we have been adding Wheatstone/Audioarts consoles and additional Blades to the system. It has worked well, and the Blades have been pretty bulletproof (I think we have had one fail in the past three years). One advantage we have with Wheatstone is that they are only about two hours away from our location, so we can literally drive down and pick up replacement components if necessary.
I have zero experience with Axia. I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work as well in our application. I know of an Axia user in a nearby market who has had some frustrating experiences, but I think some of his problems may be due to an under-engineered IP network. You really do have to pay attention to proper network management for these things to work well, as I found out. This includes making sure the network switches you use are approved for use by the vendor, and are properly set up and managed. At our plant, we keep the Wheatnet stuff entirely separate from the rest of the studio LAN, which works well.
As far as installation, there is a learning curve associated with IP audio, and there is still a fair amount of wiring to do. Again, I don't know much about how installations go with Axia, but my experience with this stuff is that it isn't really plug n play. The Blades are pretty simple to install and set up, but the consoles, not so much. The written manuals can only cover the surface of how to set up things like on-air lights, specialized routing schemes, etc. You will end up calling customer support for some of the more granular stuff.
Hope this helps...
Since then we have been adding Wheatstone/Audioarts consoles and additional Blades to the system. It has worked well, and the Blades have been pretty bulletproof (I think we have had one fail in the past three years). One advantage we have with Wheatstone is that they are only about two hours away from our location, so we can literally drive down and pick up replacement components if necessary.
I have zero experience with Axia. I have no reason to believe it wouldn't work as well in our application. I know of an Axia user in a nearby market who has had some frustrating experiences, but I think some of his problems may be due to an under-engineered IP network. You really do have to pay attention to proper network management for these things to work well, as I found out. This includes making sure the network switches you use are approved for use by the vendor, and are properly set up and managed. At our plant, we keep the Wheatnet stuff entirely separate from the rest of the studio LAN, which works well.
As far as installation, there is a learning curve associated with IP audio, and there is still a fair amount of wiring to do. Again, I don't know much about how installations go with Axia, but my experience with this stuff is that it isn't really plug n play. The Blades are pretty simple to install and set up, but the consoles, not so much. The written manuals can only cover the surface of how to set up things like on-air lights, specialized routing schemes, etc. You will end up calling customer support for some of the more granular stuff.
Hope this helps...
I'm a big fan of AXIA.. Very easy to set up. Connections for analog audio are RJ45 studio hub connections so makes easy to wire. I like the fact with AXIA I can expand by adding their audio nodes.. add studios etc..
Another awesome thing about AXIA is that you can bring in a Livewire enabled Telos Hybrid system.. If your processing is a newer Omnia processor you can send audio from your console to the processing via Livewire... There are even some livewire enabled transmitters (Nautel has some).
A lot of folks want to debate the whole 100 v 1000 thing but I look at it this way? Does it work? that's what is important.
My advise is to look at the various options out there and decide what fits for your situation.
Another awesome thing about AXIA is that you can bring in a Livewire enabled Telos Hybrid system.. If your processing is a newer Omnia processor you can send audio from your console to the processing via Livewire... There are even some livewire enabled transmitters (Nautel has some).
A lot of folks want to debate the whole 100 v 1000 thing but I look at it this way? Does it work? that's what is important.
My advise is to look at the various options out there and decide what fits for your situation.
I've found Axia very easy for set up and operation too.
My only gripe with Axia are the consoles themselves. Wheatstone makes much nicer looking hardware.
I know the Axia boards are well built, but I'm just not a fan of the overall design. They look like Mackie boards. Wheatstone consoles look "real radio" to me.
My only gripe with Axia are the consoles themselves. Wheatstone makes much nicer looking hardware.
I know the Axia boards are well built, but I'm just not a fan of the overall design. They look like Mackie boards. Wheatstone consoles look "real radio" to me.
Is it common to use punch blocks at the i/o blades (nodes, etc) or wire directly?
Each system has its own quirks, but they all basically work if properly setup. The underlying technology is different for each system and that may, or may not, play a role in your decision. For example, I think Axia uses TCP/IP to deliver content. Other systems may not. SAS, a manufacturer that was not mentioned, talks about the timing issues potentially posed by using TCP vs their network audio system. On the other hand, there are a lot of peripherals and even other consoles on the Livewire system like the Radio Systems digital consoles. So, it's possible to build a Livewire system without even buying an Axia console, thus expanding your choices.
I'd ask the station PD and GM about what is expected of the system, then call each candidate and discuss why they feel that their system is a better choice than the competition. Then, go back to the PD and GM with the results and make them part of the decision process.
I'd ask the station PD and GM about what is expected of the system, then call each candidate and discuss why they feel that their system is a better choice than the competition. Then, go back to the PD and GM with the results and make them part of the decision process.
As a disclaimer, I have only worked with Axia one time and have no *real* experience, but I do have opinions.
Axia is a better supported standard. That is changing somewhat, but you will find more livewire support than wheatnet.
Wheatstone makes great consoles. A plus for their system.
Don't get sucked into the 100/1000 networking debate. Wheatnet works. I stream audio from a File Server to 6 stations and 2 Production Rooms all day long on a Gigabit network which also includes automation traffic. Utilization is between .5 and 3 percent constantly. It's still audio coming over TCP/IP. Just from Windows to Windows instead of Node to Equipment.
Axia is a better supported standard. That is changing somewhat, but you will find more livewire support than wheatnet.
Wheatstone makes great consoles. A plus for their system.
Don't get sucked into the 100/1000 networking debate. Wheatnet works. I stream audio from a File Server to 6 stations and 2 Production Rooms all day long on a Gigabit network which also includes automation traffic. Utilization is between .5 and 3 percent constantly. It's still audio coming over TCP/IP. Just from Windows to Windows instead of Node to Equipment.
Axia with Livewire is a very stable platform that is extremely easy and flexible to configure. The audio quality is wire-like to my ears. Routing is very flexible.
With the automation computer Livewire drivers and the seamless interface to the phone lines it is an easy choice for me.
You can save some money in a plant layout by also utilizing Radio Systems consoles for the small workstations.
Long hauls work very well over standard fiber uplinks from switch to switch.
No complaints from any users as to console functionality.
I have no experience with Wheatstone so I can not compare. Axia has very good customer support and the product reliability has been exceptional.
I would recommend Axia to anyone considering a complete upgrade of their plant.
With the automation computer Livewire drivers and the seamless interface to the phone lines it is an easy choice for me.
You can save some money in a plant layout by also utilizing Radio Systems consoles for the small workstations.
Long hauls work very well over standard fiber uplinks from switch to switch.
No complaints from any users as to console functionality.
I have no experience with Wheatstone so I can not compare. Axia has very good customer support and the product reliability has been exceptional.
I would recommend Axia to anyone considering a complete upgrade of their plant.
WNTIRadio said:
My main complaint about Axia is the aesthetics, too!
When I have shown Axia pics to jocks they almost always say they don't like the way the consoles look.
Wheatstone and Harris PR&E seem to understand the console "user interface" better.....
The Wheatstone boards also look more "impressive", which at first glance seems silly. But when you're bringing in clients that spend upwards of $500k a year to the radio station, you want to wow them, not show them something that looks like it belongs in Sam Ash.
I love Omnia products, I like the Axia functionality and ease of install. I just wish they would design a non Fisher-Price looking board to go along with it.
I love Omnia products, I like the Axia functionality and ease of install. I just wish they would design a non Fisher-Price looking board to go along with it.
I feel compelled to point out a small but important correction. It's not right to say that Axia uses plain TCP/IP - that implies some sort of file-based audio transport. Axia uses UDP/IP and RTP, which is tailored to audio streams, which is what Axia does. It's a lot more robust way of doing things than TCP/IP. See here: http://axiaaudio.com/presales-faqs#osi-reference-model
Regarding console design, well, you know what they say about opinions ;D . Wheatstone makes some very nice boards, as does Axia, and I've worked with both and installed both for my clients. B101 and KIRO seem to like the way Axia boards look very much, and anyone who's seen those studios sure wouldn't call them "fisher price." And, again, all subjective, but I personally think Axia's fit and finish is more precise, and I like the way their boards do mix minus better too.
-- Doc
Regarding console design, well, you know what they say about opinions ;D . Wheatstone makes some very nice boards, as does Axia, and I've worked with both and installed both for my clients. B101 and KIRO seem to like the way Axia boards look very much, and anyone who's seen those studios sure wouldn't call them "fisher price." And, again, all subjective, but I personally think Axia's fit and finish is more precise, and I like the way their boards do mix minus better too.
-- Doc
Thanks DoctorWu... That was an education and a good read. Much appreciated.
IP Audio is like audio processors in a way.. Everyone is going to have their "favorite"
Also another perk to AXIA is the mix minus as someone touched on! I can't believe how easy it was to set up mix minus for Skype input on a radius console.
There is at first a 'learning curve' with IP Audio and routing as your doing things a lot of IT people have to do (so there is some IT stuff you have to understand as an engineer not just analog audio routing like in the past) but once you have an understanding of it..
Another brand of consoles/routing folks haven't mentioned beyond Wheatstone and AXIA is Logitek.. I think Clear Channel uses Logitek in some of their clusters.
http://www.logitekaudio.com/02a_radio_landingpg2.htm
I am still a big fan of AXIA.. oh and their consoles.. I think they have a "modern" feel to them not Fisher Price and I have not seen a studio with AXIA that did not "wow" me upon first impression.
Also another perk to AXIA is the mix minus as someone touched on! I can't believe how easy it was to set up mix minus for Skype input on a radius console.
There is at first a 'learning curve' with IP Audio and routing as your doing things a lot of IT people have to do (so there is some IT stuff you have to understand as an engineer not just analog audio routing like in the past) but once you have an understanding of it..
Another brand of consoles/routing folks haven't mentioned beyond Wheatstone and AXIA is Logitek.. I think Clear Channel uses Logitek in some of their clusters.
http://www.logitekaudio.com/02a_radio_landingpg2.htm
I am still a big fan of AXIA.. oh and their consoles.. I think they have a "modern" feel to them not Fisher Price and I have not seen a studio with AXIA that did not "wow" me upon first impression.
I'm glad to see someone else mention Logitek...they are my personal preference in the AOIP console game. Their surfaces feel and look better than the competition...and the system overall is very easy to install and setup. While I think the tech behind Axia is solid, I agree that their surfaces don't feel "Broadcast Quality" to me. Wheatstone is also a great choice...everything is made right there in their factory in North Carolina...convenient to us southerners for parts and such.
Thank you everyone for your honest opinions!
I like the Logitek consoles,they were early at the table with a good product. But Wheatstone is the champ among consoles and their Wheatnet and blade products are superb and made in the good old USA not China like the axia gear which just looks cheap to me,Fisher/Price and more plastic than Cher..
About the Axia manufacturing - the majority of Axia products are manufactured in USA. It's only the smaller consoles like the Radius and the iQ, that are made in China. If you buy an Element console (and for this project you probably would be) it's all built in USA. That being said, I've installed an Axia iQ console 2 years ago on a college station I work for, and although we had an initial problem with the console engine, once that was resolved it has ran without any issues since then. And the students love it (see here and here).
But as a general point about Axia quality and/or durability, I think it suffices to say that Axia has a 5 year warranty on all Axia products. Nobody in the industry, Wheatstone included, does not offer that kind of warranty.
When it comes to the design, tastes are always subjective. But last year at IBC, Axia showed a more conservative design of the Element surface and it was very well received by the customers. I don't know when it will be available, but I assume pretty soon. Here's the picture.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
(associated with Telos Alliance)
But as a general point about Axia quality and/or durability, I think it suffices to say that Axia has a 5 year warranty on all Axia products. Nobody in the industry, Wheatstone included, does not offer that kind of warranty.
When it comes to the design, tastes are always subjective. But last year at IBC, Axia showed a more conservative design of the Element surface and it was very well received by the customers. I don't know when it will be available, but I assume pretty soon. Here's the picture.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
(associated with Telos Alliance)
Goran...thanks for the photo of the new surface...it actually looks very nice...more "pro". For the record, I have no history with Axia surfaces being of poor build quality...it's just the perception based on the design...and I know that many owners/managers/jocks have felt the same way when Axia has been brought up as an option.
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