today is the first day of Nightttime HD IBOC on AM,i wont be able to hear CINF through WWKB, our local stations running IBOC are WCBS-AM,WOR,WINS(in October),WABC,WNYC-AMbecause of this, we wont be to do AM/MW DXing.
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First day of Nightime IBOC
- Thread starter Fire1047FM
- Start date
In reply to the "Dude," this crap will only end when the beancounters realise that the overall degradation of the American mediumwave band from this "experiment" has raised the noise floor to such an intolerable level that no one will be left to "sample" what's on the band, 'coz even local stations will be hashed out of existence on 99 44/100% of the receivers in consumers' hands, rendering stations that were heretofore reliably listenable and useful to sponsors and their audience as an annoyance that will drive listeners permanently away from AM to FM, satellite, Ipods and internet radio. There HAD to be a better way than this to get "digital" on AM. This "experiment" will show once and for all that's it's not only a handful of crank DX hobbyists that will be negatively impacted by 24-hour IBOC. Just watch those AM ratings tumble!
Last Night I swore I heard my first Iboc hash coming from WLW 700. There was a strange hiss on CINF 690, which is very strong here, both day and night, but it was slight, the real damage was on 710, there was a sound that I had never heard on AM before, it sounded like an FM radio tuned to a blank frequency, 710 was almost obliterated unless I turned the radio to face the south, and then I heard 3 stations, This was about 3 am on onwards, I didn't hear anything tonight, but I read that WOR is going to be running a 4 night test of IBOC starting now (althought I didn't hear anything different tonight). They're doing a dx test specifically for IBOC and won't accept any reports that are non-iboc. Details here:
http://americanbandscan.blogspot.com/
http://americanbandscan.blogspot.com/
So far tonight I haven't heard any distant "regulars" missing or weak due to interference. Then again, I was listening on a home receiver, which mostly picked up alarm/DSL/computer/TV noise.
Has anyone noticed degraded local serice yet? There are no local nighttime signals where I live (or any local daytime service for that matter) so I cannot check that out.
Has anyone noticed degraded local serice yet? There are no local nighttime signals where I live (or any local daytime service for that matter) so I cannot check that out.
My QTH is Western Kentucky and here are the highlights.......
700 WLW took out 690 and 710 and WGN had the infamous buzz underneath.
760 WJR added buzz to WBBM. You could null out WJR and hear WSB but with lots of noise. WABC was a lost cause.
1040 WHO has a very strong signal here so WBZ is no longer useful here.
Remember, when the NAB fires off the starter pistol the entire population will drop what they are doing to purchase an HD radio. As you know the NAB is headed by true honest broadcasting folks who are concerned about the future and not about money. Best of all the NAB can serve the community in digital!!! Take that satellite radio.
700 WLW took out 690 and 710 and WGN had the infamous buzz underneath.
760 WJR added buzz to WBBM. You could null out WJR and hear WSB but with lots of noise. WABC was a lost cause.
1040 WHO has a very strong signal here so WBZ is no longer useful here.
Remember, when the NAB fires off the starter pistol the entire population will drop what they are doing to purchase an HD radio. As you know the NAB is headed by true honest broadcasting folks who are concerned about the future and not about money. Best of all the NAB can serve the community in digital!!! Take that satellite radio.
With the sarcasm filter turned off let me add we have a local at 1490. WLAC throws a nice signal up here at night so I'm interested to see how 1490 is affected at night with HD just two clicks away.
Okay, here's my report from northcentral Mississippi: The only two stations that are normally here at night that weren't were WJR and KWKH from Shreveport. WSB boomed in as usual, but WJR was too weak to read. I couldn't tell if it was IBOC hash or just the conditions, though. Nothing on 770 is ever clean enough to get a read around here due to DSL noise. KWKH on 1130 was completely gone under the hash of KMOX.
At times WOWO was readable but most of the time it was buried under WOAI's sideband.
Otherwise, the dial seemed the same. KOA from Denver was unusually strong, but I didn't hear any sidebands on 840 or 860. I figured it would wipe out WHAS on 840 (or vise versa) but both were decent.
My only concern right now is KRMG 740 out of Tulsa - if they do HD I'll lose my only regular DX habit, WSB. KRMG fights it out with some other station nightly here, but it's always a 'full strength fight'. When it wins out, it's usually as quiet as WWL, which is like a local at night. If they fire up the HD, WSB will be doomed.
So far it hasn't been the end of AM as we know it, but I suspect things will get worse as more stations turn on at night.
At times WOWO was readable but most of the time it was buried under WOAI's sideband.
Otherwise, the dial seemed the same. KOA from Denver was unusually strong, but I didn't hear any sidebands on 840 or 860. I figured it would wipe out WHAS on 840 (or vise versa) but both were decent.
My only concern right now is KRMG 740 out of Tulsa - if they do HD I'll lose my only regular DX habit, WSB. KRMG fights it out with some other station nightly here, but it's always a 'full strength fight'. When it wins out, it's usually as quiet as WWL, which is like a local at night. If they fire up the HD, WSB will be doomed.
So far it hasn't been the end of AM as we know it, but I suspect things will get worse as more stations turn on at night.
My Sony 1992 Watchman sound bad on AM now but 2 weeks ago it sounded great got this background noise in it now on all stations. Last night on 1530 the sports animal i got the nomal westwood one broadcast and then I had something in the background of it.
I'm in Ottawa Canada, 690 CINF although based in Montreal, just under 2 hours away, is effectively a local signal here, throwing a city grade signal into Ottawa, and in the east side of the city, it's as strong as any ottawa station, Last night there was iblock interference, which at times wiped it right out. Hash was heard on the following frequencies
630, 650, 690, 700, 710, 720, 730, 750 (completely destroyed) 760, 770, 780, 1070,1080, 1090 (also completely destoyed) 1100, and 1110(again completely destroyed)
The stations that are adjacent to each other are from 90 degree angles from each other, so rotating the radio can eliminate the hash except on 750 and 1090. 2 of the stations, 690 and 730 are Canadian stations, 2 hours away, and there is sometimes an oldies station at 1090 also from Canada, both of which now have a go0d portion of their local coverage area resticted because of this crap. Hopefully they can do something to convince the offenders about their loss of coverage area, and the iblock will be switched off at night, that would at least clear up 700, 710 and 720 to what they were before.
630, 650, 690, 700, 710, 720, 730, 750 (completely destroyed) 760, 770, 780, 1070,1080, 1090 (also completely destoyed) 1100, and 1110(again completely destroyed)
The stations that are adjacent to each other are from 90 degree angles from each other, so rotating the radio can eliminate the hash except on 750 and 1090. 2 of the stations, 690 and 730 are Canadian stations, 2 hours away, and there is sometimes an oldies station at 1090 also from Canada, both of which now have a go0d portion of their local coverage area resticted because of this crap. Hopefully they can do something to convince the offenders about their loss of coverage area, and the iblock will be switched off at night, that would at least clear up 700, 710 and 720 to what they were before.
I just went out to the car here in the Duluth, MN area. I only spent about 2 - 3 minutes sampling the band, but it does not seem as bad as I though it'd be. 840 WHAS has a lot of noise, presumably from WCCO's digital signal. Hash issues in the 760 - 780 range. 820 (the usual CHAM coming in) is much less affected. 850 KOA, one of my strongest AM night stations, also seems to have hash, perhaps from WHAS? 880 is safe interestingly. More hash in the lower part of the 1000's. KMOX 1120, usually one of my strongest stations, is nearly wiped out by KFAN 1130. Also possible hash on 1100 WTAM / 1110 KFAB (co-mutual?). Possibly hash around 1170 / 1180. Not much hash to report above 1200.
Last night one local station in my area on DID NOT HAVE THIERS GOING!!! (All the others did 
)
I HOPE TO HELL THEY LEAVE IT OFF!!!!!! (Arent there any decent engineers left that dont wanna screw up the band anymore??)
HARDILY ANYONE IS LISTENING ON IBOC!!!!! -- THATS WHAT MAKES THIS SO STUPID!!!!!!!!
)I HOPE TO HELL THEY LEAVE IT OFF!!!!!! (Arent there any decent engineers left that dont wanna screw up the band anymore??)
HARDILY ANYONE IS LISTENING ON IBOC!!!!! -- THATS WHAT MAKES THIS SO STUPID!!!!!!!!
F
fmradionuts
Guest
From the standpoint of owning an HD Radio, I thought that it might bring some DX possibilities by catching a digital signal....well when I have a good strong HD signal it will never lock. I guess phase shift by the ionosphere? I know that I am disapointed since I could not lock on ANY IBOC station. This is totaly useless!! Shut them off and try CAM-D or something!! As for FM, I like it, but for AM- It's the absolute pits!!!! :'(
An update......
WABC was loud here in Western Kentucky as I enjoyed the Saturday Night Oldies Show around sundown. Then skywave brought in WJR and WABC disapeared under the noise.
Down the road is a very successful Mom and Pop Country station at 730. They have 500 watts day and 200 watts night, ND for both power levels. Thank goodness the FCC might allow FM translators for AM's because WSB, WGN, WOR might take out them out as the sun goes down. As a poster mentioned the winters months and those short days will be the true test.
WABC was loud here in Western Kentucky as I enjoyed the Saturday Night Oldies Show around sundown. Then skywave brought in WJR and WABC disapeared under the noise.
Down the road is a very successful Mom and Pop Country station at 730. They have 500 watts day and 200 watts night, ND for both power levels. Thank goodness the FCC might allow FM translators for AM's because WSB, WGN, WOR might take out them out as the sun goes down. As a poster mentioned the winters months and those short days will be the true test.
Here in Nashville (Lebanon, about 30 miles east to be exact), I ran through the band between 2-3AM. Stations I normally hear loud and clear were not listenable: KWKH, WJR, WSB, WCBS. All other expected stations were there. Totally unexpected: I was able to null out WSM enough to hear WFAN booming in. Still suprising to me: the strength of WCCO here now - no fading, sounds as strong as WSM!
Just FYI, I am using a Grundig S350 which does drift on SW, but rarely on AM. For AM and FM DX, it's the best receiver I've owned. The SW sounds great, but the drifting is awful.
Just FYI, I am using a Grundig S350 which does drift on SW, but rarely on AM. For AM and FM DX, it's the best receiver I've owned. The SW sounds great, but the drifting is awful.
Sometimes the engineer has influence in these matters, sometimes not. I'm proud to say that I have successfully killed IBOC interest at several of my client stations...all I needed to do is make sure they understood that a 50KW class B signal translates to roughly 6KW class A coverage in IBOC terms and that the AM coverage will be far less than the analog coverage as well. Owners are under the impression that "digital is better". As the postings of those who are actually making a concentrated effort to log IBOC signals show, digital is clearly not better. If they ever allow a full digital signal (no analog) and it is fully contained within a +/- 10khz bandwidth as analog AM now is, I will become a huge proponent of it as it probably will result in better coverage & less interference. The FM interference is there too...look at your tuning meter. HD on 101.1 will yield a high meter reading on 100.9 & 101.3. Everyone seems OK with FM...but it's pretty offensive in it's own right.The Dude said:Last night one local station in my area on DID NOT HAVE THIERS GOING!!! (All the others did
I HOPE TO HELL THEY LEAVE IT OFF!!!!!! (Arent there any decent engineers left that dont wanna screw up the band anymore??)
HARDILY ANYONE IS LISTENING ON IBOC!!!!! -- THATS WHAT MAKES THIS SO STUPID!!!!!!!!
radiorob2.0 said:
Now that y'all mention it, WCCO has been unusually present here in Miss. for the last few days as well. How odd.
But I wouldn't worry about WSB for the time being - they aren't running HD at all as far as I know. In fact it is listed as being off "due to listener complaints" on this AM IBOC list. Let's hope it stays that way.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
mimo said:
I've got strong evidence of WOR sidebands on a LOCAL 700 in the Dallas area.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
Zach said:
Absolutely. KFXR 1190 Dallas is destroyed in its protected countours by WOAI.
I am also getting amazing levels of sidebands on other frequencies, including a local 700 that seems to be attacked by WOR's sidebands. Amazing stuff!
I repeat my call for a meltdown. Let's put all AM's in this hybrid mode, and see if the band is even usable.
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