raccoonradio said:
It sure looks like a format change for the FM based on the wording, which just supports this thread about the declining fortunes of this format.
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It sure looks like a format change for the FM based on the wording, which just supports this thread about the declining fortunes of this format.
I see the excuses are the same as they always are when liberal talk stations fail. Poor signal. No promotion. Poor signal. Did I mention poor signal?
These stations fail because no one listens to them. Liberals listen to NPR. Why would they put up with subpar programming with commercials when they can have well produced commerical free left leaning programming on public radio?
If you want to measure the success of liberal talk, just look at the markets where NPR stations are doing VERY well. Many of them with the same bad signals.
These stations fail because no one listens to them. Liberals listen to NPR. Why would they put up with subpar programming with commercials when they can have well produced commerical free left leaning programming on public radio?
If you want to measure the success of liberal talk, just look at the markets where NPR stations are doing VERY well. Many of them with the same bad signals.
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stevensonair
Guest
I'm not seeing the comparison between NPR affiliates which are often some of the best engineered, best sounding FMs and the 2nd or 3rd fiddle AM signals with no marketing that often carried progressive talk as an afterthought.
One prog talk show is going to a non-comm. college station; KBCS Bellevue WA
http://kbcs.fm/site/PageServer?pagename=Thom_Hartmann_FAQ
http://kbcs.fm/site/PageServer?pagename=Thom_Hartmann_FAQ
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stevensonair
Guest
They may very well find it. If it's marketed.
They might find it and stay if it's well maintained and not a computer in a closet.
It may stay on the air if the sales staff and management even cares about the product enough to put the effort in.
The same thing has happened to third level conservative talk stations as well. Many of these stations were afterthoughts where the effort put in was paying the power bill and that's about it.
They might find it and stay if it's well maintained and not a computer in a closet.
It may stay on the air if the sales staff and management even cares about the product enough to put the effort in.
The same thing has happened to third level conservative talk stations as well. Many of these stations were afterthoughts where the effort put in was paying the power bill and that's about it.
If this conversation were centered around a TV series most of us would come to the same conclusion; the show simply wasn't that popular and didn't get the ratings to survive. With very little exception, networks don't pull a show off the air if it is successful. There may be a few die-hard fans of the show that make excuses for it, but overall the facts are clear.
Switching to radio... it always amazes me how many excuses the various pundits generate with regard to the lacking success of "progressive talk". Everything from low power sticks to grand conspiracy by the right wing to keep it silent. While it is true that the cream doesn't always rise to the top in the radio business, more often than not a successful host will get opportunities. Randi Rhodes is syndicated by Clear Channel/Premiere. Alan Colmes is syndicated via Fox News Radio. People that generate a buzz, get good numbers and have a show that people want to hear will more than likely get their opportunities, but frankly most "progressive talkers" do not fit into that category.
It's not even the message that people don't find interesting, it's the delivery. Most progressive talk is uninteresting or it is so filled with hate (Mike Malloy) that it is relegated to overnight hours and only airs on a minimal number of affiliates.
A better analogy might be this: Conservative talk is like the New York Yankees; extremely successful, most people want to be in those prime markets/time slots/syndication networks and you either love it or you can't stand it---either way you watch (or listen) to see what will happen. Progressive talk is more like the Seattle Mariners; there's definitely a following, even a borderline all-star or two, but overall nothing significant will ever come of it and outside of that market no one really cares.
Switching to radio... it always amazes me how many excuses the various pundits generate with regard to the lacking success of "progressive talk". Everything from low power sticks to grand conspiracy by the right wing to keep it silent. While it is true that the cream doesn't always rise to the top in the radio business, more often than not a successful host will get opportunities. Randi Rhodes is syndicated by Clear Channel/Premiere. Alan Colmes is syndicated via Fox News Radio. People that generate a buzz, get good numbers and have a show that people want to hear will more than likely get their opportunities, but frankly most "progressive talkers" do not fit into that category.
It's not even the message that people don't find interesting, it's the delivery. Most progressive talk is uninteresting or it is so filled with hate (Mike Malloy) that it is relegated to overnight hours and only airs on a minimal number of affiliates.
A better analogy might be this: Conservative talk is like the New York Yankees; extremely successful, most people want to be in those prime markets/time slots/syndication networks and you either love it or you can't stand it---either way you watch (or listen) to see what will happen. Progressive talk is more like the Seattle Mariners; there's definitely a following, even a borderline all-star or two, but overall nothing significant will ever come of it and outside of that market no one really cares.
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stevensonair
Guest
But those who don't think prog talk has much of a future will routinely ignore the factors that may have contributed to its demise.
And in fairness, the same thing has happened to some conservative talkers as well. Although in that case, it's usually the "third tier" talent who are on the least relevant AM in the market. But the point I'm making is, you can't put a niche format on a poor signal with very little "care and feeding" and expect instant numbers.
It's also significant to me that in years past, the major talkers that are now conservative, like WLS Chicago, at one point had a more diverse lineup. They'd include conservatives, libertarians, and liberals.
Now it's a lineup closer to: conservative, neo-conservative, conservative/libertarian.
Frankly, I don't think most PDs are comfortable with liberal talk and would find any excuse possible to not hire a liberal host, even one with lots of potential. Because there is a corporate and sales discomfort with progressive talk that requires commitment and time to work through.
And in fairness, the same thing has happened to some conservative talkers as well. Although in that case, it's usually the "third tier" talent who are on the least relevant AM in the market. But the point I'm making is, you can't put a niche format on a poor signal with very little "care and feeding" and expect instant numbers.
It's also significant to me that in years past, the major talkers that are now conservative, like WLS Chicago, at one point had a more diverse lineup. They'd include conservatives, libertarians, and liberals.
Now it's a lineup closer to: conservative, neo-conservative, conservative/libertarian.
Frankly, I don't think most PDs are comfortable with liberal talk and would find any excuse possible to not hire a liberal host, even one with lots of potential. Because there is a corporate and sales discomfort with progressive talk that requires commitment and time to work through.
If you go back far enough, there are plenty of examples of hit TV shows getting pulled off because they rubbed somebody the wrong way in the days of 3-network TV. There are even more examples of shows that had potential but got pulled off before they found their niche. I think of progressive talk as a little like "Star Trek" -- not nurtured because the executives in the suites didn't understand its appeal, getting canceled, and finding success elsewhere, eventually returning to TV series as executives wised up and there was a generational change.
If you believe that, you don't understand the radio business. There are "golden boys" and "fair haired children" anointed from above to be the next whatever... that's basically the Glenn Beck story. Read Alexander Zaitchik's book to see how the path was smoothed for his success in his first talk radio gig.
One of the great things about progressive talk is that no matter who does it or what style they employ, it will be criticized, even if the critiques are contradictory. "They're too serious and sour!" "They're too funny!"
More like the New York Yankees of 1964... a dying franchise relying on aging stars. It's getting sucked into a black hole of declining revenue because of audience demographics and activism that encourages advertiser defection. Unfortunately, this black hole sucks in the smallest matter first... and as advertisers are being turned off to all spoken-word current-events conversation radio, the lower tiers of conservative radio and the liberal talkers are taking the first hits. One could say the demise of these liberal stations is collateral damage to the Limbaugh-Fluke fiasco as advertisers run away from all controversial programming. Today Stephanie Miller and Laura Ingraham, tomorrow Hannity?
KeithE4 said:
NOW it's fixed.
G
I can't remember whether Chapel Hill, NC (Raleigh-Durham market) still has a progressive talk station. The signal isn't bad, but there are places in the market where it's hard to hear at night.ProducerGuy said:
But in the latest Arbitrons WUNC, which is NPR talk, is no. 2.
Asheville, NC has a progressive station, a daytime-only AM with a so-so signal. Clear Channel owns it! But the ratings have fallen off.
Both of these cities are quite liberal.
Two more dropped the format this week as well:
KYNS-San Luis Obispo, CA
WGUN-Atlanta, Ga
KYNS-San Luis Obispo, CA
WGUN-Atlanta, Ga
Yes the San Luis Obispo station to America's Radio News, Clark Howard, and Overnight America.
WGUN to Urban, // an FM.
Boston now has 1 station full time, WRKO (conservative). WBZ has it at night. Some prog programming is found on NPR stations, and prog talker Jeff Santos buys an hour on WCRN Worcester per day (and one hour on a small AM). WTKK shifted to music. Some think sports talkers like
WBZ-FM and WEEI-FM have drained away some (reg.) talk listeners.
WGUN to Urban, // an FM.
Boston now has 1 station full time, WRKO (conservative). WBZ has it at night. Some prog programming is found on NPR stations, and prog talker Jeff Santos buys an hour on WCRN Worcester per day (and one hour on a small AM). WTKK shifted to music. Some think sports talkers like
WBZ-FM and WEEI-FM have drained away some (reg.) talk listeners.
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FreddyE1977
Guest
Mike Schwartz said:
a LIBERAL talk station called [size=10pt]WGUN[/size] ??
...now THAT'S funny!
"Political talk is going the way of the dinosaur."
I also agree. Radio station owners are starting to realize that "Complainers Radio" is a terrible format. Sponsors don't like it because it attracts people that generally have a bad attitude. If I owned a restaurant, I wouldn't want someone coming in that's complaining all the time. If it's someone that is an avid fan of political talk, you can be certain it someone that hates half the world. I don't need someone coming to my restaurant that refuses to be served by a minority or sit near a minority couple.. or even worse saying bad things about minorities as this demographic tends to do.
If I owned a restaurant I would first choose to advertise on the local contemporary Christian music radio station such as LIFT FM but if it wasn't local to my area, I would consider 1) oldies, 2) adult contemporary music station, 3) country or 4) disney.
The other problem with talk radio is that the listeners of that format tend to have higher blood pressure , are generally less healthy than the rest of the population and most likely have a shorter life span than the rest of the population.
I also agree. Radio station owners are starting to realize that "Complainers Radio" is a terrible format. Sponsors don't like it because it attracts people that generally have a bad attitude. If I owned a restaurant, I wouldn't want someone coming in that's complaining all the time. If it's someone that is an avid fan of political talk, you can be certain it someone that hates half the world. I don't need someone coming to my restaurant that refuses to be served by a minority or sit near a minority couple.. or even worse saying bad things about minorities as this demographic tends to do.
If I owned a restaurant I would first choose to advertise on the local contemporary Christian music radio station such as LIFT FM but if it wasn't local to my area, I would consider 1) oldies, 2) adult contemporary music station, 3) country or 4) disney.
The other problem with talk radio is that the listeners of that format tend to have higher blood pressure , are generally less healthy than the rest of the population and most likely have a shorter life span than the rest of the population.
Yeah WGUN had some religious shows before
and Wiki. says the calls stand for God Unites
Nations or something
and Wiki. says the calls stand for God Unites
Nations or something
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