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Florida Times Union Article - The Oldies Format

An article appeared in Sunday's Times Union Business section regarding the "challenges" facing the oldies format. Nothing really knew but Tom Murphy was mentioned from the human casualty aspect of flips and Pat Garrett gave his opinions about the format.

Oh yeah, Gary Spurgeon is featured too saying what one would expect him to say.
Here is the link for those interested.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/102906/bus_5837243.shtml
 
This article shows just how far terrestrial radio has fallen within the last decade. It's gotten to the point where the average advertiser has become so fixated with chasing a younger audience, that older demos are being pushed out. That's not to say that radio companies can't make money, that's why they're here, but then again, even younger audiences are starting to tune out. After all, according to Arbitron, at least more than nine out of every 10 Americans still listen to conventional radio (AM/FM) each week, but the time spent listening (TSL) has declined within the last decade. Why? Because many of these big companies care more about not only what's best for the bottom line, and what are perceived the best demographics, than about what's best for the listeners. The next sound that's being heard are probably more subscriptions to satellite radio.
 
Hmmm. Where to start.

I'll gently disagree with Murphy. Oldies doesn't transcend generations. It's directly related to specific generations. The boomers--people born between 1946 & 1962--are now the 44-60 demo. Advertisers and ad agencies have been reluctant to shift from 25-54 to 35-64 and the Oldies format has paid the price. In theory, there are enough boomers 44-54 to support the format, but programmers need to shift their music chronology to hit the middle--now 48-year olds, who were too young to wax nostalgic about anything to do with the sixties. The music base needs to be mid-to-late seventies. The biggest problem is that by the mid-to-late seventies, Top 40 was already disintegrating into AOR, Urban, Country, AC et cetera, so the mass appeal effect inherent in 50s/60s music ain't there. But great music research should be able to generate a common playlist broad enough to pull a solid 4-to-5 share in Jacksonville for the next few years.

That having been said, when in the hell are advertisers going to start targeting 35-64 in radio--as they do in television? Anyone ever watch CBS? From CSI-Toledo to Cold Case to 60 Minutes--all the ads are for seniors.

BTW, the TSL erosion and (slight) cume erosion evident in radio is almost entirely on the young end: 12-24 is severe; 18-34 is very modest; 25-54 is solid and 25-64 has actually GROWN. Oldies anyone?
 
RNR --- great stuff. I agree with most of your points. What I find unacceptable with radio 2006 is that it's a mass appeal
medium still. We all heard in the mid 80's that narrowcasting of formats would happen. It has on non-terr. channels.
Along with that is the finally acknowledged fact that many 40+ (esp. surprising males) have given up on radio in favor
of satellite/online music. While it is worse for younger demos, it's greater than "the experts" predicted at this age
group. It proves a point --- that researchers in radio have assumed improperly for 40 years --- when you hit 45
you're to old for anything...wrong. Plus, music is still treated like it was 20 years ago for the demo. Forty, fifty and
sixty somethings want to feel young and still love rock of various genres. These same males feel old with lite AC oldies based
music, while females "tolerate" it better. Still, after work, office music is not the music of most of these peoples
lives. The psychedelic music of the late 60's/70's is almost not found. But, the younger near 40 demo doesn't know
it consistently, nor anything prior and the olfer demographic checked out of the "pop" based and certainly more
disco-based music of the 70's. It's tough to even formulate a VH format with such swings and keep P1 listeners. By being to
broad-based with the music, it alienates listeners often and quicker. By narrowcasting to a more specific period, the
shares cannot be strong enough to show advertisers the return. Tons of this age group are online, as was noted
by myspace and youtube stats just this week. Radio is and will continue to loose these folks and how can they
NOT? There are no real answers, other than denial and burying of heads. It's not the end of radio, but it's not
ever going to be the medium it was just 5-10 years ago. It's been shaken from the inside and outside.
We all know this is happening and the pure lack of quality product on the dial is adding to the problem.
Thing is -- try programming a late 60-early 80's format and it's a massive swing musically and culturally. You loose
a listener with each 5 year music swing based on that listeners age. That's where alternative music sources have
radio pinned. A 47 year old male likes this niche, a 54 year old female likes a completely different sound.
You all get the point, and few disagree with it, at least in general terms that I have stated. Does anyone
really have the exact fix to this problem? I've heard theories for 20 years and look where things are today.
Radio geared for 25 year olds that aren't even listening, etc.

BTW, RNR -- slightly off subject from this admitted confusing rant above, we were in the Panhandle this past weekend
and my 16 year old daughter's favorite radio station was WPFM---how times have changed, but have NOT! It was not
as bad as I expected. Mix 103 sounded as they revamped to the sound of a few years ago, is that correct? They
claimed that, but I haven't heard them in two years. They were not bad for MY OLD gimpographic. Thoughts?
100.3 (the old Coast) under the Hale regime was pitiful, so was WTKE with the problems of dead air, etc., but
the improved signal's a ballbuster in South Walton. All in all, the markets still pretty damn good for all the signals
and issues down there. Glad to be out of radio there, but it's still a great place to play in the sand, eat and drink.
 
I don't have detailed analysis at my fingertips but when it's come to radio listening, I've found that simple observation about people and their listening habits plus a kind of sixth sense I have about radio have helped me formulate the opinions I have and have shared on this board.

When it comes to oldies, it's a format that I feel the most expertise. I understand and agree with Tom Murphy's assessment that an oldies format transcends generations. Granted, older demos will gravitate toward the format but when things are done right - there is excellent potential for multiple demos to enjoy it as well.

Before music radio became specialized, there was a national pop music phenomena where the hits were enjoyed by parents AND their kids. The hits from AM radio from the mid 60s to the early 70s were played so often over the decades that they are familiar to tons of people and not just those who grew up with them.

Back to observation. A few years ago when I had injured my shoulder, the physical therapy place I went to which was run by those in their 20s-30s made it a point to have oldies on in the background. When asked why, especially given their age, they replied that it didn't put you to sleep and most of their clients liked it (all different age groups) as it wasn't too hard or too soft. And they admitted to liking the music too.

It's often that I'll hear movies feature many of the songs one would hear on an oldies station. Ironically, even today's advertising will feature oldies songs. And usually there are at least 1 or 2 American Idol shows that feature these songs song by people who were born some 30 years after they were popular. I can go on and on with observations. Why is that the case?

In my opinion, the music of the mid 60s to the early 70s represented the greatest wave of creativity. There will never ever be anything like it again as this was a universal sound. And so this familiarity contributes to the fact that oldies can and does transcends generations. It's ludicrous to say that if someone is born in 1970, they won't feel comfortable with songs that were popular prior to that. They would have grown up hearing the British Invasion, Motown, the California Beach sound etc. for many many years.

I believe in the format and I have remained consistent in saying this too - if programmed correctly, proper imaging, personality jocks who complement the format, sale folks who understand and like the format and management who is willing to spend a few bucks promoting the station will all be keys to success.

Radio is becoming so boring that my listening continues to diminish. Perhaps that's in the design as I'm approaching that advertising line of oblivion.

All our rants and ravings mean nothing for those of us who really love the format. As long as the ad rules are in place where you are considered dead if you are 55 +, then terrestrial radio will be what it is. Subtle differences here and there but for this market to have 3 country stations, 3-4 urban type stations, and classic rock/hits/80s stations that play lots of the same songs too is ludicrous.

Yeah, not every station can be in the Top 5, but an updated version of a "not your father's oldies station" would make a difference to set them apart and I still say - can bring success.
 
In my opinion, the music of the mid 60s to the early 70s represented the greatest wave of creativity. There will never ever be anything like it again as this was a universal sound. And so this familiarity contributes to the fact that oldies can and does transcends generations. It's ludicrous to say that if someone is born in 1970, they won't feel comfortable with songs that were popular prior to that. They would have grown up hearing the British Invasion, Motown, the California Beach sound etc. for many many years.

The baby boomers grew up with Glenn Miller blaring out of their parents' hi-fi's, but that didn't make them fans of Moonlight Serenade. A few got into Sinatra, but that's about it. It's not ludicrous to say that people associate with the music that was popular when they were hormone-raging teenagers. The above paragraph is another example of boomers thinking the rules don't apply to them or their culture, including the ones made by Father Time.

By the way, Kurt Cobain just passed Elvis as the most profitable dead celebrity. Time marches on...
 
smedge2006 said:
In my opinion, the music of the mid 60s to the early 70s represented the greatest wave of creativity. There will never ever be anything like it again as this was a universal sound. And so this familiarity contributes to the fact that oldies can and does transcends generations. It's ludicrous to say that if someone is born in 1970, they won't feel comfortable with songs that were popular prior to that. They would have grown up hearing the British Invasion, Motown, the California Beach sound etc. for many many years.

The baby boomers grew up with Glenn Miller blaring out of their parents' hi-fi's, but that didn't make them fans of Moonlight Serenade. A few got into Sinatra, but that's about it. It's not ludicrous to say that people associate with the music that was popular when they were hormone-raging teenagers. The above paragraph is another example of boomers thinking the rules don't apply to them or their culture, including the ones made by Father Time.

By the way, Kurt Cobain just passed Elvis as the most profitable dead celebrity. Time marches on...
Glen Miller wasn't Rock and Roll like Dylan, Jagger and the Beatles, who still have Rock and Country artists cover their stuff today! And they have since 1964!!!

I read about that talentless sissy Cobain passing Elvis in dead sales. I guess Courtney Love must be doing well on Ebay! Either that or the word finally got out that Presley's daughter is the only girl to ever sleep with Michael Jackson!

Goodfellow
 
Tibbs says "BTW, RNR -- slightly off subject from this admitted confusing rant above, we were in the Panhandle this past weekend and my 16 year old daughter's favorite radio station was WPFM---how times have changed, but have NOT! It was not as bad as I expected."

Yeah, last time I was down to PCB, I thought they sounded alright for a 2K-era CHR, and sure enough, it looks like they whipped past Island. The published 2-book average still has 105.9 on top, but the math says they're down to somewhere in the 2 share range for spring 06. The Great 108 lives! Sort of...

Re JohnJax & Murph's notion that Oldies transcends generations. C'mon, guys, decades of Arbitron data dispute that. Yes, all radio formats have some "slop" over demographic lines--there's no accounting for personal taste in music--but the audience profile for Oldies is very predictable, and it's gotten older and older as time has progressed. Way too many programmers bought into the "truism" that the format was defined by certain hallowed songs and didn't know how to respond as more and more boomers fell over that age-54 cliff. In fairness, in markets with well-programmed ACs, Soft ACs, Urban ACs, Classic Rockers and news-talk stations, the older demo becomes a war zone.

I do think that one of the common mistakes in the Oldies format has been trying to pin the entire station's fortunes on the music--that is, running on the cheap. Hard to believe that a well-promoted information-heavy full-service Oldies FM with an 18-hour lineup of great personalities--funny, engaging, likeable personalities--couldn't kick ass and take names. Has anyone ever--in any market--known of an Oldies station that had the highest programming & promotion budget in the market? Any market? Anywhere?
 
redneckriviera said:
Tibbs says "BTW, RNR -- slightly off subject from this admitted confusing rant above,
You are. I guess, referring to what I posted as confusing and a rant! I was answering Smedge2006 who tried to compare Baby Boomer's core artists to Glen Miller, who would have been their parent's artist. I simply stated that was a bad analogy because acts like the Stones and Dylan are still around today and have had their music covered for decades. It's still Rock and Roll to me.

Or did you take exception to what I said about Curt Cobain?

Goodfellow
 
No, he was self-deprecatingly referring to his own post, where--at the end--he tossed in the Panama City item. We've both got PC roots and he knew I'd appreciate the WPFM critique.

I don't think anyone disagrees with your general premise that some music--regardless of genre--enjoys enduring popularity; and that some people of every generation prefer tunes other than those preferred by their contemporaries. My point is that actual performance of Oldies formats over the past couple decades make it pretty clear that those folks are the exception rather than the rule.

And I'll repeat my challenge from the posting above. Has anyone ever known an Oldies station to have the HIGHEST payroll in any market? Or to be the UNCHALLENGED promotional leader? My premise is that the conventional way these stations have been run is to slap the tunes on the radio with a basic staff of a decent morning guy + average jocks or VT the other 20 hours, buy a few billboards, and hope like hell the audience finds the SOB. And since 1996, the Oldies station has usually been the 4th station in a cluster, so it gets absolutely no attention from anyone else in the building. A proven formula for success, eh?
 
redneckriviera said:
And I'll repeat my challenge from the posting above. Has anyone ever known an Oldies station to have the HIGHEST payroll in any market? Or to be the UNCHALLENGED promotional leader? My premise is that the conventional way these stations have been run is to slap the tunes on the radio with a basic staff of a decent morning guy + average jocks or VT the other 20 hours, buy a few billboards, and hope like hell the audience finds the SOB. And since 1996, the Oldies station has usually been the 4th station in a cluster, so it gets absolutely no attention from anyone else in the building. A proven formula for success, eh?
You are right on every count Mr. Riviera sir! If anyone ever gave this format the same promotional tools and air talent quality as their CHR, Country, AC or even News Talk AM they might be shocked at how well the format performs!

Goodfellow
 
Goodfellow --- didn't use your comments for my stuff. No harm intended. It is interesting to see Kurt Cobain go to #1
status. I just hope we don't all start asking "if Kurt's left the building." Your points are valid for sure.

RNR --- my PC connection --- the Oldies format has been abused for years. I have never understood why formats reflecting
(politically correct) 'music of the past' don't reflect the way stations of that past sounded. It's wrong to just throw the
music out with a little lame VT or synshows and leave listeners short changed. There's tons of totally great air TALENT
with the great voices of yesterday that can de-liver the sounds, stories, history of the past and connect the artists
and music with the era in a fun, bright way. Instead, it's the auto shuffle jukebox of 234 songs, most overplayed and
a few commercials. Your idea makes TO much sense for radio today.

I think you weren't in the Panhandle when 98-one Classic Rock was playing the absolute best REAL classic rock in America.
It kicked with a screwed up signal and a great staff (Z-Man, CJ Whitmore, etc.) Calls were WXCR, prior to the great sell off
--- ah, the last of the good old days. Often number 2, behind 99 Rock and Country105.5 (I think) but still strong and a
blast. No station I have seen plays today 20% of that playlist.

Lastly, one more quick PCB story, I mentioned to Charlie Wooten on a post, the heart of the Miracle Strip is gone
with no MS Amusement Park. Kinda like Oldies, and GOOD LEGIT FUN THINGS OF OUR PAST, they've (or we've)
been sold out to the highest bidder. Great, another 6 miles of 20 story condos with zero views of the ocean from
98. Like radio of today --- the originality is GONE. I don't even know if I spelled originiality right.
 
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