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FM Dial too crowded

V

vadar

Guest
ouch, here's what my Grundig radio can pick up when all is right on a good day/night....

94.5-WCFB-Daytona/Orlando
94.9-WWRM-Tampa
95.1-WAPE-Jacksonville
95.3-WPYO-Apopka/Orlando
95.5-WNDD-Ocala
95.7-WHOG-Daytona Beach
96.1-WEJZ-Jacksonville

What did I miss, oh yeah, who's on 94.7 and 95.9? Space Coast/Indian River?
Not many frequencies open anymore.....
 
It's going to get even worse. Now, the FCC allows translators on second-adjacents to local stations. Which means we will soon have a damn religious satellator on EVERY semi-open frequency! In many areas, these translators compete with long-established regional stations, resulting in a horrible noise mess as the two stations fight for the frequency.

WOGK-93.7 in Ocala is a great example. As it's sweepers proclaimed, you used to be able to hear this station "From the Georgia line to Disney World." Then, Vero Beach moved from 93.5 to 93.7. This caused interference around the Orlando airport and points east. Then, the 93.7 Tallahassee translator went on, causing interference in that area. (BTW, this translator is for the FSU station...why the hell do they need a translator IN TALLAHASSEE?) Pretty soon, a 93.7 translator showed up in Kissimmee. Now, there's one in Jacksonville. As a result of all this encroachment, the formerly huge WOGK coverage has been cut by about 1/3.

Another issue is the new Class A's which pop up like mushrooms whenever a larger station moves and/or is downgraded. The former 99.9/Palatka (another full Class C monster) has been downgraded to C1 and moved into Jacksonville. No fewer than THREE new allocations have risen in it's place: 99.5/Daytona Beach Shores, 99.7/Silver Springs Shores, and 99.9/Homosassa Springs. Result? More crowding and interference.

The interference issue is especially problematic in Florida, due to the frequent occurance of tropospheric ducting. As anyone who has ever lived there knows, it doesn't take much atmospheric enhancement to get things rolling. Then, you have an already crowded FM band become even more jammed. When the band is open, I've heard as many as four stations fighting for a frequency.

The end result of all this is reduced listenership for radio. There are just too many choices available now for people to listen to a signal that contains any amount of interference. So, while the big conglomerates think it's a winning strategy to shoehorn more and more stations onto an overcrowded dial, the end result is a loss of listeners and revenue as these stations mix and cause increased levels of interference to each other.
 
You guys are funny. Orlando has always been a market where one could pick up plenty of out of market radio stations. The market's location is the perfect hub for such an event - Orlando is only 60 miles from the beaches in one direction and 90 miles in the other direction. So you've got stations from Daytona Beach and Melbourne on one side (which combine with Orlando for one big TV market), and Tampa on the other end. Add in stations from Lakeland and Gainesville. The coasts are the most heavily populated areas of the state. Hell, Florida has a lot of heavily populated markets, and these markets just keep growing. As such, there's a need for them to be served by more local radio stations. For years it seemed like West Palm Beach and Jacksonville were somewhat underserved by local radio outlets when compared with Miami, Tampa, and Orlando. Not so anymore. And the Gainesville-Ocala market is still a joke as most Gainesville stations are hard to pick up in Ocala.
No, the only market where you really feel like the FM radio dial is overcrowded is in some parts of Miami-Dade County due to a bunch of annoying pirate radio stations.
 
I think that it is time for the expansion of the FM into channels 5 and 6 once the digital transition is complete on June 12, 2009. This is the only way that the overcrowding of the FM band can be alleviated somewhat. However, I doubt that the FCC will allow this to happen within the next 5 to 10 years. Also, this will also help alleviate the overcrowding on the AM dial because stations that have to reduce power significantly at night or have to go off the air at night to protect a Class A clear channel station can move to the new expanded band where they can broadcast in clear FM stereo 24 hours a day.
 
Sure,the FCC is doing to FM what they did years earlier to AM. Now with HD...Might as well just listen to CD's in the car...I listen to streaming at home b'cuz no static or interference. DIGITAL TV is what really gets me-the pixilization and station going off the air three minutes into the news because of something-either the Cable Co or the Tv or Cable Box...I have no idea what causes this but for someone who might watch all of 15 minutes of tv 5 AM before going into work-so I can find out what is going on in the area....and the tv goes whack...does DIGITAL Radio go off the air like tv does?
 
I picked up 97.1 KEGL out of Dallas one night in Winter Park........
 
Radio Circus said:
Sure,the FCC is doing to FM what they did years earlier to AM. Now with HD...Might as well just listen to CD's in the car...I listen to streaming at home b'cuz no static or interference. DIGITAL TV is what really gets me-the pixilization and station going off the air three minutes into the news because of something-either the Cable Co or the Tv or Cable Box...I have no idea what causes this but for someone who might watch all of 15 minutes of tv 5 AM before going into work-so I can find out what is going on in the area....and the tv goes whack...does DIGITAL Radio go off the air like tv does?
Click to expand...

It's your cable. Probably a signal strength issue.
 
otharadioman said:
I think that it is time for the expansion of the FM into channels 5 and 6 once the digital transition is complete on June 12, 2009. This is the only way that the overcrowding of the FM band can be alleviated somewhat. However, I doubt that the FCC will allow this to happen within the next 5 to 10 years. Also, this will also help alleviate the overcrowding on the AM dial because stations that have to reduce power significantly at night or have to go off the air at night to protect a Class A clear channel station can move to the new expanded band where they can broadcast in clear FM stereo 24 hours a day.
Click to expand...

Never happen. Channels 5 and 6 are the final HD channels in many markets including channel 6 staying on 6 after DTV transition in Philadelphia.

Tx
 
I would agree. Its interesting where I am located (Citrus County) radio stations from far away can overpower more local ones. For a while @ nite I could pick of 102.9 WXXJ out of Jacksonville. Not to mention picking up Gulf 104 out of Tallhassee even though there is a station out of Orlando on the same frequency. Once I even picked up 107.1 out of Tally. Not to mention WOMX.

The most bizarre thing that happened to me is picking up WSOL 1015 out of Brunswick, Ga. Considering WPOI 1015 out of Tampa covers my area with a 52DBu Signal. Which is a rimshot but should still cover my area. WPOI is loctaed at about 65 Miles from where I live while WSOL is 150 Miles. Both are Class C's oparating @ about 100,000 Watts. Why is a station on the same freqency from 150 Miles away fighting one from 65 Miles and winning.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=sugarmill+woods&state=FL&x=0&y=0

I'm picking up these stations on a Cheap Boom-Box with a stock atenna.
 
gamefreak said:
Why is a station on the same freqency from 150 Miles away fighting one from 65 Miles and winning.
Click to expand...

During certain times of the year, atmospheric conditions play a major role in how distant FM radio signals are affected, making long distant FM signals act as local signals.

Years ago WOGK Ocala (when it was WMMZ) was heard on Long Island, New York as though it was a local signal. This same WMMZ was also heard at another time on a military base on the island of Guam. I was working at WMMZ at the time when we received a call from an Air Force Commander informing us they were receiving our 93.7 signal there on the base. Our running inside joke for a while was "Coust-to-Coast is kid stuff. We're Ocean-to-Ocean, Z 93".

Another example is during the Summer of 1989 a beautiful music station from Michigan on 98.5 was overriding WKTK's 98.5 100kw signal in the WKTK studio; and yet another time co-channel WFSY Panama City was also overriding our local WKTK signal in Gainesville.
 
Are you serious??!?!? Guam??!? Did the guy there verify the songs played? That's a DX record that likely cannot be topped (outside of earth-moon-earth bounce, which I won't count)....did he play it over the phone?

This I gotta know more about....what was his receiver & antenna?

Is there any other info I can read about this online?

As this was during the WMMZ days, he couldn't have cheated, and listened on the Web.

I once got a letter from a DXer in Alabama who swore he heard a Hawaii FM station, but he just could not get enough info. Also there is a guy in Ireland or Northern Ireland who caught 90.7 Montgomery AL a year or two ago, confirmed....but Guam, being half the world away, can't be beat as far as distance.

cd
 
cd637299 said:
Are you serious??!?!? Guam??!? Did the guy there verify the songs played?

cd
Click to expand...

I am as serious as a myocardial infarction. This occured right after we began broadcasting from our new 1,347 foot tower with 100kw in September 1987. The call came from the United States Air Force Base Commander located at Guam. I did not speak with the commander as I was on the air, and the commander called the business line. He did give various station identifiable information and we did record the phone conversation along with WMMZ playing in the background. It was very scratchy and almost unlistenable, but the station was definately there. We used portions of the phone conversation to go along with a station promo we aired a handful of times which said "Coast-to-Coast is kid's stuff (WKTK's slogan at the time), We're Ocean-to-Ocean, Reaching Guam and around the world, Z 93".
 
That's over 8,100 miles! How did that happen. That would be the longest FM reception of any station ever in history. Hopefully you remember the guy's name, so you can talk to him and see if he remembers.
 
charlestondxman said:
That's over 8,100 miles! How did that happen. That would be the longest FM reception of any station ever in history. Hopefully you remember the guy's name, so you can talk to him and see if he remembers.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but any more info I could forward to the club....their eyes will pop out.

I can't imagine any places on Earth where > 8000 mile reception (whether AM, FM, SW or whatever) would be possible!

cd
 
As I said in my previous post, I did not speak with the Air Force Commander, so I don't know his name. I will, however, make contact with a few people I know who may be able to better answer your question and supply the additional requested information.

It is pretty amazing how far the signal went that day, some 24 years ago. I have no idea if it has ever happened again.
 
I blame most of it on the FCC rule that a station is only protected up to the 60DBU Mark. Like if that station has a signal of only 54DBu it is not protected from interference.

Lets take WFLZ for example. If a church in Crystal River wants to put up a LPFM for religious programming on 93.3 they can. As long as the station doesn't interfere with FLZ's signal in coverage areas above 60DBu.

Orlandos WPYO 95.3 is another example of that. The liners on WXCV "Citrus 95.3" state that the signal can make it from "Kings Bay to Wildwood." That is BS considering that WXCV starts interferring with WPYO just east of Inverness. Just barely make it in Sumter County on SR44 before the signal is inaudidible. Maybe if I am lucky I pick it up by to time I make it to 1-75 just west of town.

That is proof that the FM Dial is too overcrowded.
 
I am not in engineering, so as far as the dBu's and such, my question is, how are those dBu's conducted? Does it not depend on the radios used themselves? I'm a DXer, so I try to use the best FM radios I can. Even a decent walkman or maybe small FM/mp3 player might pack a punch these days!

cd
 
CD picture this: KUDI 1450 AM Great Fall's, Montana, 250W night time, recorded in Finland, on November 1975........Clear as a bell....Go figure!
 
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