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FM HD DXing

N

nd2023

Banned
Has anyone been able to DX FM stations in HD? Just 2 nights ago I was able to get stations over 100 miles away in different directions in HD. All of them were able to lock for at least a few seconds at a time. There were first adjacents next to almost all the DX stations, and I couldn't hear the IBUZ, yet my Insignia portable HD radio decoded HD.
It was a rather strong tropo opening, as I could pick up a 10 watt translator from 120 miles away, and several pirate stations (obviously of unknown power) from 50 miles away.
 
That's pretty impressive, Nick. I have kind of set my sights lower for HD DX since the power levels are lower. So far my distance record is just 87 miles, on a class C station at that. But it's a station I practically never hear in analog, so it was still neat. And like your experience, both first adjacents had stations, yet the HD audio decoded quickly and never cut out.
 
I had 3 FM HD signals from FL about 800 miles away, locked in and showing calls on my Sony tuner earlier this month. No HD subchannels, however.

WAVW, WLYF and WZZR, from Cape Canaveral area to Miami.
 
Nick said:
Has anyone been able to DX FM stations in HD? Just 2 nights ago I was able to get stations over 100 miles away in different directions in HD. All of them were able to lock for at least a few seconds at a time. There were first adjacents next to almost all the DX stations, and I couldn't hear the IBUZ, yet my Insignia portable HD radio decoded HD.
It was a rather strong tropo opening, as I could pick up a 10 watt translator from 120 miles away, and several pirate stations (obviously of unknown power) from 50 miles away.
Click to expand...

Haven't had any luck with HD on skip yet, but I've had a bit of tropo. Best case, was able to listen to World Cafe for about a half-hour on WUAL-HD3 out of Tuscaloosa one day; Tuscaloosa is about 225 miles away.
 
Nick said:
Has anyone been able to DX FM stations in HD? Just 2 nights ago I was able to get stations over 100 miles away in different directions in HD. All of them were able to lock for at least a few seconds at a time. There were first adjacents next to almost all the DX stations, and I couldn't hear the IBUZ, yet my Insignia portable HD radio decoded HD.
It was a rather strong tropo opening, as I could pick up a 10 watt translator from 120 miles away, and several pirate stations (obviously of unknown power) from 50 miles away.
Click to expand...

The best I've done with my Insignia portable was to pull in some RDS text from Milwaukee signals from my location NW of Chicago (about a 70 mile distance from MKE) during a good tropo event. I have yet to pick up anything in HD from a distance greater than 45-50 miles.
 
On April 26, after a stormy night, here in Lake Geneva, WI, I picked up KSUI (91.7 Iowa City, IA) on my Insignia pocket HD radio. I decoded all 3 HD channels with solid signal. That was a 160-mile catch for me. I also got Chicago's WBEZ in full HD (91.5) at the same time. Joliet, IL's WJCH (91.9 was also a full signal, but they don't offer any HD.

I was also able to get strong signals from other stations in that area, but none in HD. According to www.hdradio.com, there should have been a couple of those stations offering HD. I don't know why I didn't get any HD from them. I don't know if they weren't transmitting HD, or my radio wasn't getting what was offered.
 
dxer720 said:
I was also able to get strong signals from other stations in that area, but none in HD. According to www.hdradio.com, there should have been a couple of those stations offering HD. I don't know why I didn't get any HD from them. I don't know if they weren't transmitting HD, or my radio wasn't getting what was offered.
Click to expand...

The digital sidebands were probably being overridden by stronger analog signals on the first-adjacent channels. I've only received one distant HD signal via E-skip, and that was from a 100 kW Florida station on 88.1 a couple of summers ago. With no analog signal covering the lower digital sideband, it decoded without much trouble.

Rule of thumb: If both first-adjacent channels are occupied with audible analog FM signals, the digital carriers probably will not decode reliably -- and it seems that the recently authorized 6 dB blanket power increase isn't going to make much difference in these trouble spots.

I happened to drive from Geneva to Ithaca, NY a few weeks ago and listened to Saga's 103.7 WQNY the entire way to evaluate the coverage of their new "elevated power" digital facility. (For those of you unfamiliar with this area, WQNY is a full Class B, transmitting from Connecticut Hill, one of the highest points in the Finger Lakes region of upstate NY.) In the village of Ovid, NY, only 22 miles north of the transmitter on a path with no major obstructions, I lost digital lock for at least a minute. However, a quick check of both first-adjacent channels explained why. Up there on the "backbone" between Seneca and Cayuga Lakes with a clear view to the north, I heard strong first-adjacent signals on 103.5 from a station in Sodus, NY and on 103.9 from stations in Rochester and the Oswego area, and despite the -14 dBc injection, these signals were enough to cover up WQNY's digital carriers.

Most of the remaining way to Ithaca on Rt 89, WONY-HD stayed locked in, but I lost the digital again in town near the marina at the south end of Cayuga Lake, apparently due to terrain shadowing. This test drive confirmed what many of us expected -- the digital power increase isn't a cure for all HD coverage problems.
 
Play Freebird said:
This test drive confirmed what many of us expected -- the digital power increase isn't a cure for all HD coverage problems.
Click to expand...

Nice report, Freebird. Indeed, one of the biggest problems with HD radio is that the FM band was allocated under the assumption that each station would occupy one channel, not three. If IBOC was truly "on channel", there would be far fewer problems with coverage and interference. Cranking up the power is not gonna solve this problem!
 
You're right, audioguy. That's why AM-HD is such a problem. Trying to squeeze it into an allocation table that was never meant for that 3-channel occupation. That & the nighttime skywave propagation. These are both issues that have existed since the birth of radio itself.

The only true solutions would either be, to re-allocate the bands for the 3-channel spacing, or go all-digital. Neither of which I see happening in my lifetime.
 
Nick said:
Has anyone been able to DX FM stations in HD? Just 2 nights ago I was able to get stations over 100 miles away in different directions in HD. All of them were able to lock for at least a few seconds at a time. There were first adjacents next to almost all the DX stations, and I couldn't hear the IBUZ, yet my Insignia portable HD radio decoded HD.
It was a rather strong tropo opening, as I could pick up a 10 watt translator from 120 miles away, and several pirate stations (obviously of unknown power) from 50 miles away.
Click to expand...

Sure. I am actually listening to a "DX" HD station, KDWB-HD2, at 124 miles from the transmit site. The Minneapolis - St. Paul stations come in frequently, and I've received other stations as well. Here's my HD DX log:

freq / call / date of first log / time of first log / multicast at first log / distance / notes

88.3 WHWC-HD 10/18/08 2235 Y 121 Appears to be new. 2 programs.
88.5 KCRB-HD 07/19/08 2205 N 121 KCRB-FM
88.7 WMLS-HD 08/11/08 2347 N 115 Wow! (WMLS is about a 5 kW station)
88;7 KUHF-HD 05/14/10 1114 Y 1199
88.9 KNSR-HD 07/31/08 0005 N 138 Locking and Unlocking
89.3 KCMP-HD 07/17/08 1839 Y 148
89.9 WHSA-HD 04/04/10 41
90.9 WHRM-HD 07/17/08 1921 Y 178
91.1 KNOW-HD 07/22/08 2258 Y 124
91.3 KUWS-HD 07/17/08 1730 Y 9
91.7 WXPR-HD 07/17/08 1933 Y 161 WXPR-FM
91.7 KLSE-HD 09/07/09 2020 188
92.5 KQRS-HD 07/17/08 1730 Y 124
92.9 WSCD-HD 07/17/08 1730 N 9
93.3 WIZM-HD 09/07/09 2358 Y 209 Very little decode but still good
93.7 KXXR-HD 07/17/08 1900 Y 124
94.5 KHBZ-HD 05/14/10 1130 Y 1199
95.3 WGMO-HD 03/16/10 2247 Y 77 2 programs. Surprise!
97.1 KTCZ-HD 07/18/08 M? 124
98.5 KTIS-HD 07/17/08 1830 Y 124
99.5 KSJN-HD 07/17/08 1730 Y 124
100.3 KTLK-HD 07/22/08 2330 Y 124
100.5 WSCN-HD 07/17/08 1730 N 9
101.3 KDWB-HD 07/17/08 1834 Y 124
102.1 KEEY-HD 07/17/08 1835 Y 124
102.9 WLTE-HD 07/17/08 1836 Y 124 102.9 LITE FM
104.1 KZJK-HD 07/17/08 1844 Y 124
107.9 KQQL-HD 07/19/08 1719 Y 124
670 WSCR-HD 11/28/08 N
840 WHSA-HD 11/30/08
850 KOA-HD 11/28/08 N About 2s of decode.
1040 WHO-HD 11/30/08 N
1070 WTSO-HD 11/30/08
1110 KFAB-HD 11/30/08
1130 KFAN-HD 11/29/08 N Nice full decode.
 
Last night we had a little tropo in the Chicago area and that was bringing in signals from Grand Rapids/western MI and enhancing the normally weak signals from metro Milwaukee. And, I finally captured an out of market signal in solid HD (along with HD2 feed) - from WMYX 99.1. Now, I can always get WMYX from my location, but their signal is too weak for my radio to even decode their RDS, let alone HD. So, that was interesting.

However, part 2 of my story builds on audioguy's comments. The other Milwaukee signal where my radio detected an HD signal was WRIT-FM (Oldies 95.7). The radio tried and tried and could not get lock. Why? Most likely because of the presence of local WNUA (+ sidebands) on 95.5. Nothing else popped in HD last night, even though numerous out of area signals' RDS feeds were decoded.

I notice that a lot of the spectacular stories of long-distance HD reception are also in places without a lot of strong local signals. That makes sense. The HD signal is clearly very fragile and any interference whatsoever (even overload) is enough to prevent it from decoding.
 
I've received over 170 FM stations in HD here in MA. Most of them have been during E Skip, so it certainly is possible, and I find it to be quite easy, but it may be because of having a large APS-13 antenna. Most of them do fully decode, while a few just get strong enough for the call letters to show. Yesterday I received 101.9 WKRQ Cincinnati, for possibly my shortest E Skip HD catch.
 
I just find it impressive that I got all that DX in HD on a little Insignia portable HD radio using only the headphone cord, with first adjacents and no audible IBUZ. I could imagine how much better a tabletop HD radio and external antenna would perform. The only good thing about HD radio is that it forced manufacturers to produce high quality radios because HD signals are so weak.

One cool thing I remember was tuning to the HD2 of a distant HD station, then after moving around a little bit, the radio decoded the HD2 of a local HD station on the same frequency, while displaying the distant station's call letters.
 
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