FM IBOC Power Increase Sought

[hipporadio]

He has “found the chip”, Bob [KB] – AND IT WORKS WELL! I’m listening to a FIVE-WATT station at FOUR MILES as I type this [11:35 at night], and despite some 10khz “superhet” – It sounds GREAT... Remember, under the same reception conditions – there would be NO HD LOCK... No fizzle-stick audio – just silence, or a revert to 2khz audio [as is the case in the Radio Shack HD Accurian]. This is insane! The insanity needs to stop!

Last week, I had a 40-minute conversation with Indiana congressional rep, Mike Pence – you’ve heard of him in regards to RIAA/internet issues. He came from an AM radio talk show background [WIBC Indianapolis], and has a “heart” for radio. We talked about “AM issues”, and I implored him to recognize the fact that many FM allotments have been removed from communities post-telcom by the Greed Mongers in corporate radio – leaving behind in the trash bin – only the local AM allotment. I begged him for regulatory mercy on these remaining and embattled public servants in the AM radio business. I queried on the possibility of our FCC imposing MINIMUM STANDARDS upon imported radios in regards to AM performance. I followed-up with audio files of WIFE Connersville recorded on the Meduci tuner from within his district as an example of the TRUE POTENTIAL of AM radio.

He emailed me this morning – AND AGREED – and promised to pursue the issue. That may be “poly-speak”, but I have tried. Mr. Pence has promised an inquiry, and is personally-interested in action. FACT: IF Sony was confronted with “AM standards”, do you for a silly-second believe that they would sacrifice the US market over a ten-cent improvement in their AM section performance? NOT! We need to hop on this, and get the ball roiling. AM radio is SO-FAR down – it is calling for action. Despite my political Libertarian status – I am calling upon the regulatory body to reverse this sad inequity.

Let’s bring AM back [without defective and destructive IBOC] – IT CAN BE DONE!

 

[clouseau]

First, Mr. Inspector – or should I say “frustrated radio cynic” – I have NEVER been thrown-off an internet forum of any kind – not college Fraternity – not even floral arranging [swish] – and certainly NOT one that critiques “defective, destructive, and non-marketable” broadcast technology promoted by a few minions and companies that are sinking into penny-stock status. - I'm simply TOO lovable Nor have I been personally-impolite, derogatory, and insulting toward those that don’t share my wise and predictably-right opinion.

This paragraph is exactly why this forum has the attention of basicallly no one. It's a response to an assertion about you that was never made. And full of pontification. I'll pass.

Have a cup ‘O strong Starbucks latte and repeat after me... “HD Radio is OVER... HD Radio is OVER”... Can you remember that Mr. Clou... The evidence is overwhelming... The longer you hold out – the more ****** you appear - not to mention - one who has been absorbed by the digressing corporate radio "Borg" - OH, that's sooooo trite... SORRY Inspector, but true!

I don't pay $5 for coffee and I don't swallow this garbage even for free. Apparently, though, we've hit the center of HD radio's collective thought here. If only I could attach the correct Ops Manager/Chief Engineer/General Manager tags to the screen names, I'd really know what's going on. You folks really claim to know it all.

*Hippo... ‘Never been to Tao, BTW : And haven't lost any money on corporate radio, either!

"Haven't lost any money on Corporate radio."

You must be proud. Add it to your Sig file...

Out...

Clouseau

 

[hipporadio]

First, Mr. Inspector – or should I say “frustrated radio cynic” – I have NEVER been thrown-off an internet forum of any kind – not college Fraternity – not even floral arranging [swish] – and certainly NOT one that critiques “defective, destructive, and non-marketable” broadcast technology promoted by a few minions and companies that are sinking into penny-stock status. - I'm simply TOO lovable Nor have I been personally-impolite, derogatory, and insulting toward those that don’t share my wise and predictably-right opinion.

This paragraph is exactly why this forum has the attention of basicallly no one. It's a response to an assertion about you that was never made. And full of pontification. I'll pass.

Have a cup ‘O strong Starbucks latte and repeat after me... “HD Radio is OVER... HD Radio is OVER”... Can you remember that Mr. Clou... The evidence is overwhelming... The longer you hold out – the more ****** you appear - not to mention - one who has been absorbed by the digressing corporate radio "Borg" - OH, that's sooooo trite... SORRY Inspector, but true!

I don't pay $5 for coffee and I don't swallow this garbage even for free. Apparently, though, we've hit the center of HD radio's collective thought here. If only I could attach the correct Ops Manager/Chief Engineer/General Manager tags to the screen names, I'd really know what's going on. You folks really claim to know it all.

*Hippo... ‘Never been to Tao, BTW : And haven't lost any money on corporate radio, either!

"Haven't lost any money on Corporate radio."

You must be proud. Add it to your Sig file...

Out...

Clouseau

You are a bitter, ineffective radio guy, who likely hasn't met some cost, Clou... Much like your corporate radio bros, who have "frozen expenses" [at the behest of the employees] so they can come up with the cash to buy-back their pitiful stock to avoid the wrath of Wall Street. You CURRENT "Radio Types" are PATHETIC - I'm loosing my patience with you [and, BTW, I was ONCE one of you] - but I am no longer. You - led by the D.E. types, have decimated this once-fine industry. DON'T you dare ridicule me in this forum... YOU HAVE NO HALF-LEG to STAND-ON. SHAME ON YOU - I'm beginning to HATE radio because of your obvious arrogance and shameless self-promotion - even as your value your dive in value.

You "guys" are in beyond-obvious trouble, yet you can't "drop-trowl" and admit it... You approach "Penny Stock" status, yet you maintain your pitiful egos... GIVE ME A BREAK! Ten years ago, I sold a "cluster" [I know you worship that word] for 2.5 mil on an initial $500,000 investment, yet you attack and demean me in this forum for my professional opinion - MUCH which involved tactical engineering endeavors. Would you be surprised to know that I prosecuted a precedent-setting case before the FCC and later the DC Appeals Court that possibly paved the way for your "move-in"? You KNOW-NOT who you are blogging with... I'm very tired of you SMALL "wannabees"... 'Just go away and save us the challenge of decorum - PLEASE!

 

[KB1OKL]

He emailed me this morning – AND AGREED – and promised to pursue the issue. That may be “poly-speak”, but I have tried. Mr. Pence has promised an inquiry, and is personally-interested in action. FACT: IF Sony was confronted with “AM standards”, do you for a silly-second believe that they would sacrifice the US market over a ten-cent improvement in their AM section performance? NOT! We need to hop on this, and get the ball roiling. AM radio is SO-FAR down – it is calling for action. Despite my political Libertarian status – I am calling upon the regulatory body to reverse this sad inequity.

Let’s bring AM back [without defective and destructive IBOC] – IT CAN BE DONE!

Yes! This is what we need: minimum standards on AM radios, I hope MR. Pence tries to deliver on his promise, if you can sell half as good in person as you can here I'm sure he's all fired up. You are a breath of fresh air Hippo, and heaven knows we need it, there's lots of hot air here sometimes.
I was just on ebay looking at a few 50's tuners, a few looked promising, a Fisher 80T and several others, there was even a 1950's Miller hifi AM tuner with separate power supply that was once owned by WQXR 1560 NY which would now whoosh all over this tuner in it's wide position with Kidney music, (The Kidney stations are actually great if the kids will stayed tuned into AM after they grow out of the music on there). They must have sold it when they went IBOC a few months ago ;D. It's price including shipping is almost what I paid for the Meduci at this point with more than 5 days to go, but it looks like a really cool tuner and must be good if it was used as a studio monitor. My new hobby: collecting hifi AM tuners.

 

[hipporadio]

KB, I PROMISE that I’m going to try. Please understand two things: [first] - I no longer own radio stations, so I am not “at bay” so to speak in that frat; and [second] - pursue politics and prepare to wait. I know Mike Pence well – he is a friend of communication. He is at the top on legislation that would free casual internet streamers from the wrath of the RIAA... He is also a former popular talk show host on the former WIBC AM [which just migrated to FM] – understandable, given market forces in their metro... Mr. Pence has seen that happen.

My approach to him is based on the 250-watt to 1kw stations “left behind” in his district that have witnessed their FM allotments leave town to migrate to corporate radio stables – in some cases SIXTY MILES away I have been an on-record activist against this inappropriate action during the Bush Administration FCC, so I’m calling for “AM reconciliation” here. Pence is a conservative Republican, yet I believe he “feels the pain”, but will act – then move the meter as political time allows? I don’t know ??? ... One can only bring this issue before his rep in Congress and hope. Mr. Pence is a fair-minded man... That’s all I can offer at this point – but I PROMISE that I will “hug him” on this issue, but don’t hold your breath – this may take TEN YEARS. I hope AM radio is still around to benefit.

I hope it will be [AM around]... It’s a natural resource, and should NOT be casually-allowed to pass-away. Let's keep working on it!

 

[Play Freebird]

Last week, I had a 40-minute conversation with Indiana congressional rep, Mike Pence – you’ve heard of him in regards to RIAA/internet issues. He came from an AM radio talk show background [WIBC Indianapolis], and has a “heart” for radio. We talked about “AM issues”, and I implored him to recognize the fact that many FM allotments have been removed from communities post-telcom by the Greed Mongers in corporate radio – leaving behind in the trash bin – only the local AM allotment. I begged him for regulatory mercy on these remaining and embattled public servants in the AM radio business.

As a veteran broadcaster, I'm sure you know that Section 307(b) of the Communications Act of 1934 directs the FCC to provide a “fair, efficient, and equitable” distribution of radio services across the nation. This is supposedly the basis of AM and FM allocation and licensing policies.

However, when major market AM IBOC stations harm the nighttime reception of small market broadcasters on adjacent channels, a scenario which was never considered in the allocation plan, I would say this amounts to a major violation of 307(b). Perhaps that's the point that needs to be made to Congress.

 

[audiophile.]

The FCC "will address unexpected high levels of interference on a case-by-case basis??"

Absolute, unadulterated, unmitigated crap.

This is precisely the soothing language used when IBOC-AM was authorized at night. It's meant to anethsitize future victims into believing that there will be an effective "safety valve" to provide relief in egregious cases of interference. Then, when horrible instances of adjacent-channel problems crop up, the FCC simply ignores them in flagrant defiance of all evidence.

WYSL has filed FIVE separate pleadings including two detailed interference studies, over a period of 19 weeks encompassing a variety of local weather conditions, in all three antenna modes and powers, reply pleadings to two CBS responses (notably thin on data and highly implausible) including scores of field readings and audio recordings on CD. All of WYSL's data is supported by engineering statements from TWO unimpeachable professional radio engineering firms representing many decades of experience, all submitted UNDER OATH. One of these engineers is renowned as an experienced researcher in the development of terrestrial digital radio. All in all, including exhibits, over 100 pages of text and measurement data were filed with the Enforcement Bureau with copies to the Mass Media Bureau.

The FCC's response to this mountain of persuasive data? They simply ignored it.

I even appealed to Mass Media Bureau Chief Peter Doyle. As if nothing had ever been filed, he advised me to "put something in writing and be sure to serve a copy on CBS counsel." Despite this exasperating response, I did as he requested. This has been ignored as well.

Potential FM IBOC increase victims: better note this, if you think for a moment that the Commission is going to take any action to protect you "in cases of unexpected interference."

In point of fact, there does not exist a SINGLE INSTANCE of the FCC's granting relief to any station complaining about IBOC adjacent-channel interference. Not one.

Bob is absolutely right. Broadcasters who are not part of the HD Alliance got suckered by the soothing language about interference mitigation in the FCC's IBOC Report(s) & Order(s). It turns out that the FCC's stance is, at best, actually this: if an IBOC station is operating in compliance with the rules, the interference that it generates must be tolerated by other stations.

FM stations have filed complaints too, and gotten nowhere (but usually outright dismissal rather then the stone wall that Bob has faced). The procedure goes something like this:

1. Station A files a complaint that they are being interfered with by Station B, documenting an impact on their listeners within their protected contour.

2. The FCC asks Station B to ensure that they are operating in compliance with NRSC-5 (e.g., no spurious products above the mask), as well as the other Part 47 rules that apply to the FM service. Station B replies that they are in compliance.

3. The complaint is dismissed.

That's all she wrote, folks - it's the New World Order in American broadcasting!

What a sham! What was the call letters of this FM facility? PM me if you want...

 

[hipporadio]

'Just got an email from the Congressman... He bonded with his former boss, Jeff – ofcorporate radio fame... BOTH are reading this thread - yeah baby Mr. Pence LOVES LOCAL RADIO... He told me on the phone: “It made me”... He was referring to 94.3 in Rushville, Indiana that carried his talk show from 10AM-noon. BOTH also agree that it's hi-time for the AM insanity to stop.

The “solution” to “AM problems” is a mandatory requirement that those selling radios provide minimum AM standards. I have to be real-careful here since I’m a “non-government” Libertarian – but I can’t imagine a better reason for the regulatory agency to get involved – I just wish they would... Sooner than later!

 

[Carmine5]

Unless the thinking is to move many LPFM's off of the FM band in terms of each having a unique channel and onto the HD2/3 channels of existing commercial stations.

Doing this would certainly allow for the 10 db increase without having pesky low power stations getting in the way and having to help move elsewhere on the band.

Plus broadcasters can collect some rent on, what are turning out to be, costly, non-revenue producing side channels.

C5

I don't believe very many LPFM operators would be pleased with that scenario.

If I were involved in the operation of an LPFM I probably wouldn't like it either. I'm just trying to divine what the NAB's thinking is as to why a 10 db increase would benefit LPFM. As you well know, Chuck, they've never been a friend of LPFM.

Of course on the plus side, if an LPFM were to migrate to an HD2/3 channel they would probably extend their reach well beyond the three and a half mile limit for LPFM stations, depending on the power and coverage of the host station. No need for translators.

But on the minus side, who would be listening?

C5

 

[hipporadio]

NO THEY WOULD’T, Carmine... There is a file cabinet full of documentation that 100kw HD2/3 offerings DON’T UNLOCK in the REAL WORLD of FM radio. Now, let’s get back to failing AM radio that is dying right before our corrected vision – and it is NOT just a matter of defective and destructive IBOC [revisit Part 15 infractions]... PLENTY more are to blame. In my biz, receiver manufactures tell me the reason for their RF insensitivity and narrow bandwidth is because of interference... KNOCK-KNOCK who’s there? ...There is NO greater source of contemporary interference than AM IBOC... It is “wishful thinking” for an ill AM band – andheave-inducing chemotherapy to boot.

Let’s attack the problem at its root – CRAPPY RECEIVERS.

 

[hipporadio]

Last week, I had a 40-minute conversation with Indiana congressional rep, Mike Pence – you’ve heard of him in regards to RIAA/internet issues. He came from an AM radio talk show background [WIBC Indianapolis], and has a “heart” for radio. We talked about “AM issues”, and I implored him to recognize the fact that many FM allotments have been removed from communities post-telcom by the Greed Mongers in corporate radio – leaving behind in the trash bin – only the local AM allotment. I begged him for regulatory mercy on these remaining and embattled public servants in the AM radio business.

As a veteran broadcaster, I'm sure you know that Section 307(b) of the Communications Act of 1934 directs the FCC to provide a “fair, efficient, and equitable” distribution of radio services across the nation. This is supposedly the basis of AM and FM allocation and licensing policies.

However, when major market AM IBOC stations harm the nighttime reception of small market broadcasters on adjacent channels, a scenario which was never considered in the allocation plan, I would say this amounts to a major violation of 307(b). Perhaps that's the point that needs to be made to Congress.

YEPPERS, but the Bush Administration FCC somehow forgot about that during their numerous coffee-breaks :'(

'Time to "TAKE BACK" our local media!

 

[hipporadio]

Now ... Listening to the degraded analog signal of “The Nations’ Station” and “The Big One”, 700 WLW, I just heard “Willy” call for corporate responsibility That’s an oxymoron considering that his employer has turned him into a broadcast frat bro of that Clear Channel-owned facility - maybe is on the threshold of being owned by Bonneville ... [Thank goodness] WHEN are they going to finally SELL-OUT, and return “broadcasting” to stasis? This once-fine company [CCU] has become downright **** [sorry, I can't publish my pronoun] The market has said to CCU – GO AWAY – YOU’RE TOAST... As Hannibal said in “Silence of the Lambs”: “Starling, fly fly away”... DO IT with some degree of grace, CCU. Please allow us to pick-up your pathetic pieces.

Goodbye, CCU and your digital science-fair project... BTW, are you having a friend for dinner?

 

[ve3jf]

What a sham! What was the call letters of this FM facility? PM me if you want...

It's not easy to find out about interference complaint filings. You'd think it would be a matter of public record, but I don't know any way of finding out about them via the FCC website (feel free to enlighten me, anyone, if this info is available somewhere).

Here's one that was mentioned in a public forum:
http://lists.radiolists.net/pipermail/broadcast/2007-October/062392.html

Here's another, though specific facilities are not identified:
http://lists.radiolists.net/pipermail/broadcast/2008-February/067754.html

 

[Savage]

At a National Religious Broadcasters gathering a Salem engineer reportedly asked an FCC guest-moderator at a tech forum about IBOC interference complaints. The Commission wonk flatly declared "there haven't been any IBOC complaints" and then refused to take any more questions on the subject.

And HD proponents call critics "paranoid" and "naysayers" etc., etc. whenever we point out that there have been PLENTY of problems.

Idi Amin used to piously declare that his country was a model of democracy and human rights, even as rolling power blackouts became the norm because the sluicegates of hydroelectric dams were so jammed with bodies of murdered government critics the water couldn't flow through.

Elites of various stripes are pushing the country towards fascism. The IBOC denial-fest is just one symptom of government running amok. It's time for The Second American Revolution.

 

[hipporadio]

I had a bit of fun today [from my ole radio years]... I visited a Wendy’s in Connersville, Indiana with my Mom and Dad... The community has a great big heart and a lot of pride – they are going through tough times, and are predisposed to support their-own, We placed our orders for a chicken sandwich, salad, ‘n a Frosty at the counter... I noticed that the audio from the speakers was 96.1 WQLK from neighboring Richmond [a country station – a rather bad one at that]... I asked to speak to the manager [who was 22], and asked her WHY she was playing a Rose City radio station instead of WIFE [LOCAL oldies] from her hometown [the tower was in sight]... She knew about the station, but said the radio couldn’t pick it up... FACT – she didn’t understand that the radio had an “AM/FM’ switch, MY God, THIS MUST BE THE DUMBEST YOUTH GENERATION EVER - or we are doing something terribly-wrong. I readjusted her tuner... John Phillips’ “Mississippi” popped-up and the clientele clapped... And the Bogen tuner sounded good on AM!

‘Just another “I didn’t know about AM fable”, but Mom and Dad were covering their face... "We can't take baby Hippo anywhere" ;D

 

[Chuck]

If I were involved in the operation of an LPFM I probably wouldn't like it either. I'm just trying to divine what the NAB's thinking is as to why a 10 db increase would benefit LPFM. As you well know, Chuck, they've never been a friend of LPFM.

Well that is for sure. This has the smell of three day old fish.

Of course on the plus side, if an LPFM were to migrate to an HD2/3 channel they would probably extend their reach well beyond the three and a half mile limit for LPFM stations, depending on the power and coverage of the host station. No need for translators.

But on the minus side, who would be listening?

C5

Actually, most LPFM stations are receivable for about 7-10 miles, and sometimes a lot more if there is no co-channel interference. Except for major metro's, where there are no LPFM stations, I think it will be quite a while before the potential audience for a HD-2 channel exceeds what could be available to an ordinary analog LPFM station.

That said, I think it would be great if some benevolent HD broadcaster wanted to simulcast an LPFM station on their HD-2 channel. Probably both parties would win. The HD station gets free programming, presumably from someone who actually cares what goes on the air, and the LPFM might get a few more listeners. I don't see much down side to it, at least until the HD station decides to terminate the arrangement.

 

[Savage]

Or if the HD station decides you've got a good thing going on there and rips off the LPFM's format. (The likelihood of this actually happening increases dramatically if it's a CBS HD station.)

Hippo, 30 years back when I had the only AM in a three-way CHR battle in Pittsburgh, when I encountered a retail establishment or restaurant with one of our FM competitors on I'd suddenly assume a demeanor of alarm. I'd ask gravely, "you sure you want that FM radio playing right next to you like that??" Sometimes, for effect, I'd edge uneasily away from the radio.

Perplexed, dumbfounded look. "Ummm...yeah, it's a pretty good station, I guess. What's the problem?"

"Haven't you heard about how the government just found out that FM radios radiate a cancer-causing field around them for about 15 feet?" (I'd adjust the "danger zone" to include the receiver's actual location on a case-by-case basis.) "It was just announced this morning. They're stopping the sale of FM radios. That damn thing might kill you, you know."

In most cases the clerk would suddenly come to life to shut off the infernal machine. I'd show her how to re-tune to safe, healthy AM.

 

[R.F. Burns]

Or if the HD station decides you've got a good thing going on there and rips off the LPFM's format. (The likelihood of this actually happening increases dramatically if it's a CBS HD station.)

Hippo, 30 years back when I had the only AM in a three-way CHR battle in Pittsburgh, when I encountered a retail establishment or restaurant with one of our FM competitors on I'd suddenly assume a demeanor of alarm. I'd ask gravely, "you sure you want that FM radio playing right next to you like that??" Sometimes, for effect, I'd edge uneasily away from the radio.

Perplexed, dumbfounded look. "Ummm...yeah, it's a pretty good station, I guess. What's the problem?"

"Haven't you heard about how the government just found out that FM radios radiate a cancer-causing field around them for about 15 feet?" (I'd adjust the "danger zone" to include the receiver's actual location on a case-by-case basis.) "It was just announced this morning. They're stopping the sale of FM radios. That damn thing might kill you, you know."

In most cases the clerk would suddenly come to life to shut off the infernal machine. I'd show her how to re-tune to safe, healthy AM.

Yea, honest way of doing business. If those clerks really believed that story, then it explains where some of today's Radio Shack/Circut City/BestBuy employees come from. You know, the ones who work for stores selling a product and yet they claim not to know anything about it. I haven't found anyone like that in our local stores but I know those who post here & claim that such employees exist would never stretch the truth.

 

[hipporadio]

Hippo, 30 years back when I had the only AM in a three-way CHR battle in Pittsburgh, when I encountered a retail establishment or restaurant with one of our FM competitors on I'd suddenly assume a demeanor of alarm. I'd ask gravely, "you sure you want that FM radio playing right next to you like that??" Sometimes, for effect, I'd edge uneasily away from the radio.

Perplexed, dumbfounded look. "Ummm...yeah, it's a pretty good station, I guess. What's the problem?"

"Haven't you heard about how the government just found out that FM radios radiate a cancer-causing field around them for about 15 feet?" (I'd adjust the "danger zone" to include the receiver's actual location on a case-by-case basis.) "It was just announced this morning. They're stopping the sale of FM radios. That damn thing might kill you, you know."

In most cases the clerk would suddenly come to life to shut off the infernal machine. I'd show her how to re-tune to safe, healthy AM.

I'm LOLing out of control, Bob ;D ...But weren't those GREAT YEARS in "radio promotion"... I just had to revisit them for a moment... Will you forgive me, please

 

[hipporadio]

“Just passed 8:45PM and WIFE has dropped to 40-watts... I am FOUR MILES away, and the Meducii barely-burped... STILL – excellent near-FM quality audio. “Nuff said – there is no reason that AM radio has to remain in the back seat.