FM IBOC Power Increase Sought

[Play Freebird]

FACT – she didn’t understand that the radio had an “AM/FM’ switch, MY God, THIS MUST BE THE DUMBEST YOUTH GENERATION EVER - or we are doing something terribly-wrong.

That's a interview question Wendy's asks before they hire workers. If the applicant knows anything about AM/FM switches, he/she won't get the job. No fast food joint wants to hire someone who is overqualified.

This is one reason the former HD "stations between the stations" promotional phrase went over the heads of many consumers. Many people I spoke with thought it meant that the new hidden stations were on even tenths, such as 92.2, 92.4, 92.6, and couldn't figure out how to tune them in.

This month's HD slogan "It's time to upgrade" reduces things to the lowest common denominator -- for example "Do you want to upgrade to the Biggie Combo", or "Do you want your fries Super-Sized". But I'm still asking Where's the Beef?

 

[hipporadio]

OK Freebird, I’m relaxed and reclining in my boyhood bedroom listening to GREAT MUSIC on WIFE AM... Darn, it’s down in power but naught – my Meducci continues to deliver that emasculated signal in full fidelity – 'Just near FM – REALLY! - with a hint of good ‘ole fashioned 10khz superhet... I’m going to retire to my fine listing... You folks may campaign for a great classic hits station[url] in your locale - I'm lucky until I leave Mom 'n Dad's place

 

[Savage]

Aw, come on, RF. Lighten up! ;D It was just a little prank. Nobody got hurt. The clerks COULD always tune back to the FM band if they wanted to. Once they discovered I was goofing them they didn't become so emotionally scarred they had to run out and get another tat or piercing!! ;D

It was even less disruptive than Joey Reynolds' old "Royal Order Of The Night People" on KB where kids wrote in to join and Joey sent them a membership card and a candle. The young listeners were supposed to light the candle and dribble wax on the tuning knob to seal it on 1520 kHz. I'm sure parents appreciated wax all over the dials of their 1960s Magnavox consoles. No word on whether Reynolds rituals sparked any fires.

 

[KB1OKL]

Yea, honest way of doing business. If those clerks really believed that story, then it explains where some of today's Radio Shack/Circut City/BestBuy employees come from. You know, the ones who work for stores selling a product and yet they claim not to know anything about it. I haven't found anyone like that in our local stores but I know those who post here & claim that such employees exist would never stretch the truth.

I encountered one of them the other day, a sales drone who told me that HD radio was selling good, while the one I was looking at was 50.00 off and had a missing remote so I couldn't even try AM on it haha! This with two returns on the shelf. ;D He knew nothing about the radio.

 

[Play Freebird]

There's a short article today on the TWICE website about the IBOC power increase proposal:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6571408.html?desc=topstory

The basis of iBiquity's argument is that digital stereo exceeds the coverage of analog stereo by "about 10 percent", but doesn't reach as far as analog mono. However, with the power boost, iBiquity claims it will match the analog mono coverage.

What isn't mentioned, of course, is the likely degradation of analog audio quality, both on the host station and on first-adjacent neighbors. iBiquity plays this down, claiming "virtually no risk of adversely affecting analog compatibility".

These arguments are so contradictory. When the Class A stations were lobbying for a modest 3 dB power increase, we heard all sorts of worst-case doom-and-gloom predictions from major group owners like Westinghouse, CBS, Gannett, etc. about how the 6 kW proposal would destroy the service of their prized Class Bs and Cs. I remember attending an SBE conference near Syracuse where NAB's former head of science and technology spoke on the Class A rulemaking. To paraphrase his comments (which, as usual, were quite condescending) "these Class A stations claim that an increase from 3 to 6 kW will have a negligible effect on their neighbors, but it's much more serious than they think. Doubling power will give them only three miles more coverage, but the interference impact on other broadcasters will be much more substantial."

It's ironic to think that one of the original proponents of the Class A power increase was Clear Channel, back when they were a relatively small company in Austin, which owned KPEZ, a 700 watt/150 m Class A.

Somewhere around here I have a file of comments on that 6 kW rulemaking; if I can find it, I'll post some excerpts so we can compare the arguments made then to those made today.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

There's a short article today on the TWICE website about the IBOC power increase proposal:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6571408.html?desc=topstory

The basis of iBiquity's argument is that digital stereo exceeds the coverage of analog stereo by "about 10 percent", but doesn't reach as far as analog mono. However, with the power boost, iBiquity claims it will match the analog mono coverage.

What isn't mentioned, of course, is the likely degradation of analog audio quality, both on the host station and on first-adjacent neighbors. iBiquity plays this down, claiming "virtually no risk of adversely affecting analog compatibility".

These arguments are so contradictory. When the Class A stations were lobbying for a modest 3 dB power increase, we heard all sorts of worst-case doom-and-gloom predictions from major group owners like Westinghouse, CBS, Gannett, etc. about how the 6 kW proposal would destroy the service of their prized Class Bs and Cs. I remember attending an SBE conference near Syracuse where NAB's former head of science and technology spoke on the Class A rulemaking. To paraphrase his comments (which, as usual, were quite condescending) "these Class A stations claim that an increase from 3 to 6 kW will have a negligible effect on their neighbors, but it's much more serious than they think. Doubling power will give them only three miles more coverage, but the interference impact on other broadcasters will be much more substantial."

It's ironic to think that one of the original proponents of the Class A power increase was Clear Channel, back when they were a relatively small company in Austin, which owned KPEZ, a 700 watt/150 m Class A.

Somewhere around here I have a file of comments on that 6 kW rulemaking; if I can find it, I'll post some excerpts so we can compare the arguments made then to those made today.

I've been scolded on this board for stating my own observations about IBOC interference to first-adjacents on FM. Well, if there are still people doubting that I can *hear* (with my ears) and *see* (with a signal meter) this interference, their doubt will be wiped away with this power increase.

I have to be clear that I am not an HD Radio Hater, well... Not on FM with its current power levels. I am sure I will hate it if the power goes up. There are very few receivers right now where HD Radio causes audio degradation to the analog FM signal, but there will be MANY with this proposal. COFDM tears up any type of analog signal, and no FM discriminator can undo that damage.

But, hey, let's look on the bright side. iBiquity will legitimately be able to claim that HD Radio's signal goes as far as the analog counterpart with this proposal... Not just because the digital signal will go farther, but because the analog signal will lose 30% of its reach due to self-interference!

 

[hipporadio]

I decided NOT to contribute to the NAB [National Association of BIG] because they chose to divert the dutiful dues of many Class A FM stations to later oppose a legitimate proposal for a minuscule power increase to 6kw – one that the corporate radio cadre LOVES today [BTW] - under “altered” circumstances of-course.

The 3db Class A FM power increase caused NO PROBLEM whatsoever – just a mild bump in near-field reception for those blessed at spacing that would permit it... In fact, it initially protracted to less than 60-percent of the licensees... Query most New England broadcasters who didn’t “qualify”. I had to fight in the DC appeals Court to get my 6kw upgrade – I WON in a precedent-setting case. I cannot verify ANY co or adjacent channel “issues” caused by this technical augmentation, yet - the "big" routinely opposed the "small" at that time.

Corporate radio may have opposed me in 1988, but today, they routinely short-space facilities to take Class A to the max with NO concern whatsoever : My eyes are spinning. It must be good for them and their "cluster". 'Funny, how times and priorities change!

 

[PhilJSmith67]

I decided NOT to contribute to the NAB [National Association of BIG] because they chose to divert the dutiful dues of many Class A FM stations to later oppose a legitimate proposal for a minuscule power increase to 6kw – one that the corporate radio cadre LOVES today [BTW] - under “altered” circumstances of-course.

The 3db Class A FM power increase caused NO PROBLEM whatsoever – just a mild bump in near-field reception for those blessed at spacing that would permit it... In fact, it initially protracted to less than 60-percent of the licensees... Query most New England broadcasters who didn’t “qualify”. I had to fight in the DC appeals Court to get my 6kw upgrade – I WON in a precedent-setting case. I cannot verify ANY co or adjacent channel “issues” caused by this technical augmentation, yet - the "big" routinely opposed the "small" at that time.

Corporate radio may have opposed me in 1988, but today, they routinely short-space facilities to take Class A to the max with NO concern whatsoever : My eyes are spinning. It must be good for them and their "cluster". 'Funny, how times and priorities change!

Pure analog FM signals on alternate (second-adjacent) or even first-adjacent frequencies cause little interference. Heck, even co-channel FM signals (at different power levels) can be separated thanks to the FM capture effect. That's not the case with FM versus COFDM. This became painfully obvious when I began losing one first-adjacent station after another as the stronger signals next to them added HD Radio. These previously-listenable stations now get digitally "picket fenced" as I drive. I've taken these stations off my presets as they are now unlistenable.

 

[hipporadio]

You nailed it, Philip... OFF-FREQUECY IBOC causes much more mayhem then does a miniscule Class A FM power increase from 3 to 6 kw. Simon “is bad”, but Shuster is “good” :

 

[PhilJSmith67]

You nailed it, Philip... OFF-FREQUECY IBOC causes much more mayhem then does a miniscule Class A FM power increase from 3 to 6 kw. Simon “is bad”, but Shuster is “good” :

Thanks hippo! Don't even get me started on COFDM vs. AM...

 

[RichWood]

Lastly, it's worth noting that the tests were conducted entirely by IBOC proponents, with no unbiased observers present. Thus there was a wealth of opportunity to select contrived situations for the tests, and to selectively report the results that suited their conclusions.

I don't see the folks at NPR supporting this nonsense, though stranger things have happened, I suppose.

This is the kind of deception that's surrounded this thing from the start. Begin with the "CD Quality" claim. Look at the HD Alliance web site for a long list of things that just aren't true. At the current power level, in my market, virtually all the digital signals drop out every few seconds on my JVC (same with a loaned Kenwood). The site claims no dropouts. For a while they dropped the CD quality claim. Now it's back. While contemporary CDs sound pretty bad, at least there's a Red Book standard that is as close to lossless as you can get. I'm at a complete loss to figure out how 96Kbps further chopped up with HD-2 and HD-3 can come remotely close to CD quality

Any station wiped out by an adjacent owned by one of the big consolidated companies can rely only on the kindness of strangers. One of the companies has its own lobbyists and requires managers to contribute to campaigns (the company can't do it, legally). As we've seen the WYSL/WBZ issue has been substantially ignored. Whichever company contributes the most to politicians will win. In my market WBZ wipes out their sister station KDKA during critial hours and at night.

As it stands, the system isn't working in any but major cities within view of the station's antennas. For this albatross to fly the power MUST be increased. I get about a 25 mile shortfall in the digital signal with the JVC and the car's stock antenna. Note that the absolutely, totally unbiased report claims no "meaningful increas in in interference" was found. What's meaningful to vested interests is often very different from the rest of us.

Even the major investors in the HD Alliance don't seem to care. The strongest signal in my market (owned by a big consolidated company) has had their digital down for 7 days, so far. Not long ago they were down for 8 days from the time I first noticed it. There isn't enough interest to have backup systems and the equipment seems to fail with awesome regularity. How do you sell radios when there's no signal? This station is the only one receivable in stores. It seems the equipment has been sent UPS Ground for repair.

The FCC is very likely to take a flawed report and approve the increase. Regardless of the damage done the power has to be increased. Sometimes you have to destroy the village to save it.

NPR stations are wondering if the CPB will fill the trough again to pay for an expensive increase so soon after they paid for the initial conversion. Very few stations are currently equipped to increase power to the 10% level. We'll probably see about 3dB as they push their current installation to its limits.

For some strange reason I own three IBUZ receivers. The Sony and the Accurian often lose close-in digital signals. This is with an external attic mounted antenna. The digital signal is terribly fragile. Either increase the power at all costs or shut the thing down.

I won't even mention the "revolution" that's bringing us bush league formats that no one seems to care about (especially the stations running them). Most of the secondary formats are minor variations of the analog. Just add an additional category to the existing library and change the voictracking and you have a "unique"and revolutionary new service.

This is a house of cards with a tornado approaching.

Rich

 

[hipporadio]

One of the best posts I have viewed here, Rich! The WYSL issue SHOULD NOT go to the back of the file cabinet... This is an attentive enterprise that is being harmed by [formerly illegal] AM interference. WBZ gains little, while WYSL is emasculated within their “protected” nighttime coverage area – one they have spent A LOT of money on towers to present. I’m firmly on Bob’s side in this issue, and have published this repeatedly. I wish him the VERY-BEST!

AM IBOC cries for termination. It accomplishes little while it thrusts unprecedented interference and analog audio degradation upon the dying AM band. HD AM IBOC is literally – brutal chemotherapy for the AM band... Sorry, many stations DON’T suffer from cancer, Mr. Bobby Stumble!

 

[Radioman100]

Hey fellow radio survivalists, have you aficionados who embrace how 'n why - counter to the “IBOC Zombies”... Interesting, they have mostly-deserted this forum due to THE SIMPLE TRUTH about defective and destructive IBOC... They clearly CAN NO LONGER defend their jaded position in the face of Savage, KB, rbruce, radioskeptic, "me Hippo" and more...INTERESTING. Me-Hippo is mere a “laymen” in the technical world, but no-less practical [I’m an old "record-setting" radio sales rep, First-Phone, pirate operator, and multi-station owner – NO excuses - 'just been there and DONE-IT], but nonetheless committed to the continuance of “radio as relevant”. Understand, that you guys, here, are making A DIFFERENCE. I received an email from a major “consumer producer” yesterday that has observed and taken-notice of this forum - I have no-less than five rendezvous per week with consumer electronics manufacturers. This IS the value of these interactions... KEEP THE FAITH, Bros!... And keep the pressure ON – DO IT... It will PAY-OFF, I promise!

Nice fantasy, but it doesn't jive with reality.

I suspect most of the pro-HD guys like myself don't come around much anymore because this forum is a huge waste of time. Stopping by today, I can see it's the same half dozen or so people posting the same half dozen or so thoughts over and over. This broken record is still skipping in the same groove I left it in. How boring.

My time is much better spent doing things that actually matter. Arguing with six DXers with way too much time on their hands is just pointless.

 

[KB1OKL]

Hey fellow radio survivalists, have you aficionados who embrace how 'n why - counter to the “IBOC Zombies”... Interesting, they have mostly-deserted this forum due to THE SIMPLE TRUTH about defective and destructive IBOC... They clearly CAN NO LONGER defend their jaded position in the face of Savage, KB, rbruce, radioskeptic, "me Hippo" and more...INTERESTING. Me-Hippo is mere a “laymen” in the technical world, but no-less practical [I’m an old "record-setting" radio sales rep, First-Phone, pirate operator, and multi-station owner – NO excuses - 'just been there and DONE-IT], but nonetheless committed to the continuance of “radio as relevant”. Understand, that you guys, here, are making A DIFFERENCE. I received an email from a major “consumer producer” yesterday that has observed and taken-notice of this forum - I have no-less than five rendezvous per week with consumer electronics manufacturers. This IS the value of these interactions... KEEP THE FAITH, Bros!... And keep the pressure ON – DO IT... It will PAY-OFF, I promise!

Nice fantasy, but it doesn't jive with reality.

I suspect most of the pro-HD guys like myself don't come around much anymore because this forum is a huge waste of time. Stopping by today, I can see it's the same half dozen or so people posting the same half dozen or so thoughts over and over. This broken record is still skipping in the same groove I left it in. How boring.

My time is much better spent doing things that actually matter. Arguing with six DXers with way too much time on their hands is just pointless.

Well I guess the pro-Ibocers like yourself ran out of arguments, it's dead and you know it. The truth hurts I guess. Most people here are not DXers actually and at this point I am a former although I've gotten into ham radio more, no IBOC on those bands thank God, I can't stand the AM band the way it is, the IBOC noise just makes it no fun at all, it was noisy enough already for the 99.999% of us who still listen to analog radio and always will. Did you ever stop to think that maybe most pro IBOC people are now anti or undecided and that is the reason there are few of you left here? The jury seemed to be out for a while amongst radio pros but I think it's been found guilty as charged a while ago and some of you are just slow to accept it.

 

[Radioman100]

Well I guess the pro-Ibocers like yourself ran out of arguments, it's dead and you know it. The truth hurts I guess. Most people here are not DXers actually and at this point I am a former although I've gotten into ham radio more, no IBOC on those bands thank God, I can't stand the AM band the way it is, the IBOC noise just makes it no fun at all, it was noisy enough already for the 99.999% of us who still listen to analog radio and always will. Did you ever stop to think that maybe most pro IBOC people are now anti or undecided and that is the reason there are few of you left here? The jury seemed to be out for a while amongst radio pros but I think it's been found guilty as charged a while ago and some of you are just slow to accept it.

Nope. Just got weary of the same song, 50,000th verse. You guys don't win any arguments here, you simply stifle any and all non-critical discussion of HD through a constant barrage of smart ass remarks, insults and boring rhetoric.

This forum offers absolutely nothing to the pro-HD or even HD neutral crowd. If you're not here to bash, you will be bashed. That makes coming here pointless for anyone but the six of you.

 

[hipporadio]

Hey fellow radio survivalists, have you aficionados who embrace how 'n why - counter to the “IBOC Zombies”... Interesting, they have mostly-deserted this forum due to THE SIMPLE TRUTH about defective and destructive IBOC... They clearly CAN NO LONGER defend their jaded position in the face of Savage, KB, rbruce, radioskeptic, "me Hippo" and more...INTERESTING. Me-Hippo is mere a “laymen” in the technical world, but no-less practical [I’m an old "record-setting" radio sales rep, First-Phone, pirate operator, and multi-station owner – NO excuses - 'just been there and DONE-IT], but nonetheless committed to the continuance of “radio as relevant”. Understand, that you guys, here, are making A DIFFERENCE. I received an email from a major “consumer producer” yesterday that has observed and taken-notice of this forum - I have no-less than five rendezvous per week with consumer electronics manufacturers. This IS the value of these interactions... KEEP THE FAITH, Bros!... And keep the pressure ON – DO IT... It will PAY-OFF, I promise!

Nice fantasy, but it doesn't jive with reality.

I suspect most of the pro-HD guys like myself don't come around much anymore because this forum is a huge waste of time. Stopping by today, I can see it's the same half dozen or so people posting the same half dozen or so thoughts over and over. This broken record is still skipping in the same groove I left it in. How boring.

My time is much better spent doing things that actually matter. Arguing with six DXers with way too much time on their hands is just pointless.

Well I guess the pro-Ibocers like yourself ran out of arguments, it's dead and you know it. The truth hurts I guess. Most people here are not DXers actually and at this point I am a former although I've gotten into ham radio more, no IBOC on those bands thank God, I can't stand the AM band the way it is, the IBOC noise just makes it no fun at all, it was noisy enough already for the 99.999% of us who still listen to analog radio and always will. Did you ever stop to think that maybe most pro IBOC people are now anti or undecided and that is the reason there are few of you left here? The jury seemed to be out for a while amongst radio pros but I think it's been found guilty as charged a while ago and some of you are just slow to accept it.

Good comeback, KB... H.I.A.100 probably doesn’t “come around” because he has little to say and an audience with a very-low cume... He’s still “smarting” from the infamous assault from those nasty guys at The Radio Racket – that stitched an internet label on his corporate Polo... Remember “TRIP” [Terrestrial Radio Industry Patriot] – H.I.A.100 was the inspiration... BTW, that was the best acronym since “PET” – Personal Electronic Teller [AKA an ATM] used by the credit union industry in the '80s... BRAVO, George Brusstar!

BTW, Radioman – I DON’T live in a fantasy world... That position is reserved for the corporate radio mavens that still hold onto their penny-stock certificates and desperately search for HD radios that aren’t on display at Best Buy!

 

[Savage]

Questions for Radioman:

a. If HD is such a rousing success, (a) why is a tenfold digital power increase suddenly considered necessary on FM? Where are most of the Alliance members in the recent comments with the FCC filed in favor of the hike - many are MIA having been replaced by relatively minor players? Why doesn't the tenfold-hike proposal have the imprimatur of the NRSC? Wny does NPR not support it? And (b) if there are no adjacent-channel problems on AM why are many former-HD stations - including Alliance members - turning IBOC off at night?

b. If this forum is such a waste of time, why are you still posting here?

c. You really think IBOC critics consist of "six DXers?" C'mon. And you accuse the anti-HD contingent of denial? And blame them for "insults and boring rhetoric?" What, are Martin Stabbert, Bob Neil, Jerry DelColliano, John Gorman, Play Freebird, Watt Hairston and hundreds of others to be dismissed as "six DXers??"

d. How have IBOC critics "stifl(ed) critical and non-critical discussion of HD?" Didn't you just post your opinion for all to read? C'mon, Radioman - defend your HD Radio, instead of attacking those with whom you disagree. Tell us how 10db digital will be widely adopted and how it will help HD become mainstream. Give us a success story about how HD-AM has rescued a given-up-for-dead signal somewhere. Show us some audience figures that show that HD has helped even ONE station - AM or FM, SOMEwhere. Tell us what the Alliance is going to do about the fact that HD receiver sales have, for all intents and purposes, STOPPED.

What's the game plan? HOW IS HD GOING TO SUCCEED?

Got any answers? Or is your response going to consist of more personal remarks?

 

[Radioman100]

Good comeback, KB... H.I.A.100 probably doesn’t “come around” because he has little to say and an audience with a very-low cume... He’s still “smarting” from the infamous assault from those nasty guys at The Radio Racket – that stitched an internet label on his corporate Polo... Remember “TRIP” [Terrestrial Radio Industry Patriot] – H.I.A.100 was the inspiration... BTW, that was the best acronym since “PET” – Personal Electronic Teller [AKA an ATM] used by the credit union industry in the '80s... BRAVO, George Brusstar!

Oh, those guys?

Just as irrelevant as you are, but a sterling example of the bitterness and insults I spoke of in my last post. Just made a quick visit to their forum. Apparently not too many people do. They have the same half dozen or so people talking to each other over there. A different six than here, but another tiny crowd.

A collection of has beens and wannabees doing a little internet radio show talking about the industry they either flunked out of or could never make it into. Sad really. Why in the world would I care what they think?

On Monday, I'll wake up, hop in the shower then head to my management level radio job in market #6. My efforts will help to keep 2.1 milliion people entertained and bring in tens of millions for my company this year.

Those guys will wake up and head to whatever it is they do to put food on the table wishing they had my job. Poor guys... At least they get to chat about me on the internet. Hope I bring a little joy into their miserable little lives!

 

[KB1OKL]

Oh, those guys?

Just as irrelevant as you are, but a sterling example of the bitterness and insults I spoke of in my last post. Just made a quick visit to their forum. Apparently not too many people do. They have the same half dozen or so people talking to each other over there. A different six than here, but another tiny crowd.

A collection of has beens and wannabees doing a little internet radio show talking about the industry they either flunked out of or could never make it into. Sad really. Why in the world would I care what they think?

On Monday, I'll wake up, hop in the shower then head to my management level radio job in market #6. My efforts will help to keep 2.1 milliion people entertained and bring in tens of millions for my company this year.

Those guys will wake up and head to whatever it is they do to put food on the table wishing they had my job. Poor guys... At least they get to chat about me on the internet. Hope I bring a little joy into their miserable little lives!

Well whatever you do there RM100 we're all glad that you're happy!

 

[Radioman100]

Questions for Radioman:

a. If HD is such a rousing success, (a) why is a tenfold digital power increase suddenly considered necessary on FM? Where are most of the Alliance members in the recent comments with the FCC filed in favor of the hike - many are MIA having been replaced by relatively minor players? Why doesn't the tenfold-hike proposal have the imprimatur of the NRSC? Wny does NPR not support it? And (b) if there are no adjacent-channel problems on AM why are many former-HD stations - including Alliance members - turning IBOC off at night?

First, you're making a lot of assumptions there about who does and doesn't support what. It probably comes as a shock to you, but not everyone working in corporate radio feels compelled to telegraph their every move so it can become internet fodder. As for nighttime HD on AM, I don't have any numbers on it and I really don't care - but WBZ has theirs on, don't they? There's one corporate broadcaster leaving it on!

b. If this forum is such a waste of time, why are you still posting here?

I made my quarterly visit last night and found the ridiculous comment I responded to above. If not for that one ridiculous "Hooray! The pro-HD people don't post anymore, so we must have made them realize they're wrong" statement, I wouldn't be posting now. I wanted to make sure the six of you had no delusions - that's not it.

c. You really think IBOC critics consist of "six DXers?" C'mon. And you accuse the anti-HD contingent of denial? And blame them for "insults and boring rhetoric?" What, are Martin Stabbert, Bob Neil, Jerry DelColliano, John Gorman, Play Freebird, Watt Hairston and hundreds of others to be dismissed as "six DXers??"

There's six people that post regularly on this board. I don't see Martin Stabbert, Bob Neil, Jerry DelColliano, John Gorman or Watt Hairston here during my roughly quarterly visits. Of the ones listed, I have seen Watt post occasionally in the past, but I suspect he grew weary of the constant bickering, bashing and name calling and found better things to do. As for Bob Neil, he sure has converted a bunch of stations to HD for someone you claim is anti-HD. If he hates it so much, I wonder why he hasn't pulled the plug? http://coxradiohd.com/

d. How have IBOC critics "stifl(ed) critical and non-critical discussion of HD?" Didn't you just post your opinion for all to read? C'mon, Radioman - defend your HD Radio, instead of attacking those with whom you disagree. Tell us how 10db digital will be widely adopted and how it will help HD become mainstream. Give us a success story about how HD-AM has rescued a given-up-for-dead signal somewhere. Show us some audience figures that show that HD has helped even ONE station - AM or FM, SOMEwhere. Tell us what the Alliance is going to do about the fact that HD receiver sales have, for all intents and purposes, STOPPED.

Completely pointless in this forum, for reasons obvious to everyone. If you really want to know my thoughts on HD, go back and read my early posts. My opinion hasn't changed.

What's the game plan? HOW IS HD GOING TO SUCCEED?

Got any answers? Or is your response going to consist of more personal remarks?

See, that's the thing. You're really not interested in any intelligent discussion about HD. Personal remarks are what drew me back in. Personal remarks are what drove me and many others like me away in the first place. I have no need in my life for a forum that is nothing but anti-HD rhetoric and back patting and is otherwise just grade school name calling. It doesn't matter what I say. That will be the end result, so why bother saying anything?

I just don't have the time for that nonsense.