FM news 101.9 - why did news on FM fail?

[Bongwater]

Many markets got their heritage all news AM on to FM over the past decade. Why did nobody listen to the news on 101.9 rather than 880 or 1010. They were blessed with Hurricane Irene and Occupy Wall Street increasing listener’s appetite for news.

I think the lack of promotion did it in. People didn’t know that FM News 101.9 existed unless they tuned past. No billboards, no TV. Heck, even a tent at Occupy Wall Street would have been great promotion! Also, they wanted to target women and dumbed down the news.

I wonder why Audacy didn’t decide to put 1010 WINS on 101.9 when they bought the station from Merlin.

There's executing a format and there's executing a format.

I'm not sure what Merlin thought they were doing. New Yorkers like hard news, not entertainment gossip or about which cookies are gluten free. 101.9 was news. But with more filler than you can shake a meatloaf recipe at.

Another factor the industry missed is the audience was already long familiar with ceaseless gimmicks from 101.9 MHz. And they knew whatever it was, it wasn't going to be there long. So there was no point in listeners getting attached to something that probably wasn't going be there next week. That's also why they didn't last long.

There was similar ratings blowback with 92.3 in their format roulette. However, WINS is considered rock solid in NYC. So it was an advantage WEMP did not have. 101.9 also found redemption as an FM of a familiar AM, WFAN

 

[KyleSmith1988]

There's executing a format and there's executing a format.

There was similar ratings blowback with 92.3 in their format roulette. However, WINS is considered rock solid in NYC. So it was an advantage WEMP did not have. 101.9 also found redemption as an FM of a familiar AM, WFAN

I do agree to some extent, in the case that with WFAN now on FM I would see no need for the other Sports station at 98.7, perhaps they can make that into the other News outlet WCBS 880 is missing if they wanna be on FM or would that just compete with WINS/92.3. Even WABC 770 or WOR 710, I think would fit better on 98.7 vs whats on there now.

I see ESPN 98.7 as a waste when its WFAN / WCBS that had the Yankee Games on their station, I would listen to Yankee Games on 880 or 660 from South Carolina at night since most of the time Yankees on TV isn't available here.

Growing up on the Jersey Shore if I wanted to hear ESPN radio I would just tune into 1000 AM Chicago they even got a good signal into most of the area every night and that station (WMVP) isn't even on FM, I always thought that station was one of the strongest around. I can also hear them well in SC most nights.

 

[Bongwater]

I do agree to some extent, in the case that with WFAN now on FM I would see no need for the other Sports station at 98.7, perhaps they can make that into the other News outlet WCBS 880 is missing if they wanna be on FM or would that just compete with WINS/92.3. Even WABC 770 or WOR 710, I think would fit better on 98.7 vs whats on there now.

I see ESPN 98.7 as a waste when its WFAN / WCBS that had the Yankee Games on their station, I would listen to Yankee Games on 880 or 660 from South Carolina at night since most of the time Yankees on TV isn't available here.

Growing up on the Jersey Shore if I wanted to hear ESPN radio I would just tune into 1000 AM Chicago they even got a good signal into most of the area every night and that station (WMVP) isn't even on FM, I always thought that station was one of the strongest around. I can also hear them well in SC most nights.

I also agree the trouble is there's too many Sports stations in many markets when realistically, there's only one doing well and the rest are farther down, sometimes in the humiliating 1.0s or below in the 6+ numbers. If they even show up at all.

 

[TheBigA]

I also agree the trouble is there's too many Sports stations in many markets when realistically, there's only one doing well and the rest are farther down, sometimes in the humiliating 1.0s or below in the 6+ numbers. If they even show up at all.

The reason for it, and why you are seeing WCBS doing more sports, is because it makes money regardless of the ratings.

They will make more money with Rutgers basketball than they would with news. It's also better than infomercials.

Watching 6+ numbers may be entertaining to outsiders, but we're in the business of making money.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

I also agree the trouble is there's too many Sports stations in many markets when realistically, there's only one doing well and the rest are farther down, sometimes in the humiliating 1.0s or below in the 6+ numbers. If they even show up at all.

There’s often times a certain amount of advertisers that will advertise on Sports stations regardless of ratings.

They want to be associated with a certain team, host or audience. They’ll pay money for that even with the 6+ ratings are in the 0s.

You want to have your ads on within the games too. Those can be really expensive. A lot of advertisers will gladly pay it.

There’s also more to sponsor. Sports stations will have a sponsor for a host, a segment, their studio, a phone line, their updates, etc. So they’re making money even outside of the typical stopsets.

 

[DOB]

Sports can be done bad and cheap with almost no ratings at all and still add nice cash to a cluster.
As for sports, that's the perfect analogy. WINS was the Yankees and WCBS the Mets and FM Snooze 1019 tried to take them on with a high school baseball team. I could never understand what they were thinking. Then again I don't know the big game of making money or amassing a power position by losing millions on the books. That's how they shut out those who could've done the very best radio. You can't out bid those who will pay 10x the true value of a property because they are playing a game where losing money is either the objective or it doesn't matter for them. It's not a free market nor a fair one when it seems that some players have a completely different reality.

 

[inorm99]

CBS tried the exact same thing in Washington DC. In 2011, they moved the WNEW call letters to 99.1 and tried to do an all-news format to compete with WTOP. Bad idea. Total failure. They then tried to evolve it into news/talk by adding Dave Ramsey. They finally gave up in 2015 and turned the signal over to Bloomberg Financial News. They moved the WNEW call letters back to New York, and changed 99.1 to WDCH.

Part of the problem with WNEW was the signal.
It would have been better to put all news on 95.5 and WPGC on 99.1.
In that way, they would have served two large cities, clearly, instead of a rimshot for both

 

[davideduardo]

Part of the problem with WNEW was the signal.
It would have been better to put all news on 95.5 and WPGC on 99.1.
In that way, they would have served two large cities, clearly, instead of a rimshot for both

The problem with what are essentially Annapolis signals is that they don't penetrate homes and offices in either market. There is no such thing as a dual Baltimore and DC station.

 

[TheBigA]

Part of the problem with WNEW was the signal.
It would have been better to put all news on 95.5 and WPGC on 99.1.
In that way, they would have served two large cities, clearly, instead of a rimshot for both

Except that the urban format is a huge money maker in DC.

Neither Baltimore nor DC was hungry for another news station.

Just as NY wasn't looking for another news station when 101.9 came on.

 

[JoeLouis]

In Fort Myers, FL that's not the case, 92.5 FOX News is always the highest Nielsen rated station in that market.

 

[CTListener]

In Fort Myers, FL that's not the case, 92.5 FOX News is always the highest Nielsen rated station in that market.

Is that a news station or a political talk station? The discussion here is about news radio, not opinion radio.

 

[JoeLouis]

I guess it's a mix, they do have Hannity at 3M so maybe it's a combo deal

 

[CTListener]

I guess it's a mix, they do have Hannity at 3M so maybe it's a combo deal

Just looked at its webpage. It's a talk station, branded "92.5 Right All Along," with a lineup of familiar national right-wing talkers (like Hannity) and a couple of what seem to be local guys with the same political outlook in morning and evening drive. I see no evidence of any extended blocks of news.

 

[JoeLouis]

Still CT Listener, I don't know of many talk stations that rate that high, I look at Nielsen ratings everywhere and News/talk are in the middle to the bottom of the list so WFSX must be doing something right.

 

[CTListener]

Still CT Listener, I don't know of many talk stations that rate that high, I look at Nielsen ratings everywhere and News/talk are in the middle to the bottom of the list so WFSX must be doing something right.

The demographics of the Fort Myers area help. Lee County is older and largely white. Donald Trump carried it by nearly 20 points in the 2020 election. A Soft AC station is No. 1, a right-wing talk station is No. 2, a classic rock station is No. 3, a more traditional AC station is No. 4. Then you have the NPR affiliate and a country station fifth and sixth. This is not a market with much of a hunger for news or liberal opinion.

 

[davideduardo]

In Fort Myers, FL that's not the case, 92.5 FOX News is always the highest Nielsen rated station in that market.

That is a talk station, which we now erroneously call "News/Talk" in the industry. Most of those stations "talk about the news" but do little or no spot news coverage.

A "News" station does nothing but cover news without commentary and opinion. Any station that uses "FOX" as its name is not a news station.

The top rated station is WAVV, constantly and consistently. WSFX is around 20th or so in 25-54, and it mostly thrives with those over 65 where it is #1. Unfortunately, most advertisers, even in retirement communities, don't seek older consumers and even if stations that lean old seem to be full of ads, they are sold at very low rates.

WSFX, being highly rated in a predominantly retirement area, is among the top 5 stations in revenue just because local independent retailers and service providers depend on seniors for revenue.

 

[davideduardo]

Still CT Listener, I don't know of many talk stations that rate that high, I look at Nielsen ratings everywhere and News/talk are in the middle to the bottom of the list so WFSX must be doing something right.

WSFX is not even in the top 25 in 18-34. In 18-49 it's in the +/- 22 rank range, and in 25-54 it may get 20th at best. It is in the 55 and over, and, particularly 65 and over that it thrives.

But there are some really good news/talk stations that rate highly. They have good signals and enough local presence to thrive. Examples are WJR, WLW, WBT, WWL, WSB, WTAM in the East and ones like WOAI, KFI, KOA, KTAR, KOB and KSL in the West. Still, nearly all the audience is over 45, with the bulk over 55.

The key is having a full market signal and doing a good local job to complement Sean and other national right-wing talkers. But where it is not done well, such as WPHT in Philadelphia, the audience does not respond. Still, even the lower-performing ones like WBAL in Baltimore are in the top ten or better in revenue. Of course, CTListener brought up the point that Ft Myers is far less ethnic than many other markets, and we are talking about an almost exclusively non-Hispanic white format here.

KFI, which looks "huge" in LA is around 20th in 25-54, so it does not get a lot of transactional business. But it makes up for that with certain car dealers, mattress shops, financed implants and dentures, etc. Like the Ft. Myers station, it manages to rank in the top three or four in revenue but it is rather expensive to do.

 

[TheBigA]

But there are some really good news/talk stations that rate highly. They have good signals and enough local presence to thrive. Examples are WJR, WLW, WBT, WWL, WSB, WTAM in the East and ones like WOAI, KFI, KOA, KTAR, KOB and KSL in the West. Still, nearly all the audience is over 45, with the bulk over 55.

Then of course are all of the NPR stations around the country, with KQED San Francisco and WAMU Washington among the highest rated. In New York, WNYC is tied with WABC 6+, just outside the Top 10. They tend to be more news than talk, with more discussion than just talk. They also trend a bit older, but it doesn't matter, since they aren't ad-supported.

 

[davideduardo]

Then of course are all of the NPR stations around the country, with KQED San Francisco and WAMU Washington among the highest rated. In New York, WNYC is tied with WABC 6+, just outside the Top 10. They tend to be more news than talk, with more discussion than just talk. They also trend a bit older, but it doesn't matter, since they aren't ad-supported.

And if we look at markets like San Francisco, Portland and Seattle as well as DC and a number of others, the NPR affiliates do magnificently.

But NPR affiliates do not do a pure talk format nor a pure news format. And in each market the presentation is different to some extent with varying usage of the national content and the quality of the local (or state NPR affiliated network, such as Minnesota). NPR stations may have music content, and a wide variety of material that fits neither the "all news" nor the "news/talk" commercial radio definitions.

 

[AmyMegan]

Wow! Perhaps Randy Michaels should have hired students from my former high school station 😂
So why did it get more expensive to drive in Illinois? I guess we’ll never know

Nick you would like Randy, he is an engineering guru like you and gets harsh reviews from people but he's a fun guy. If you drive through Cinci look him up.