Just got to thinking - could a FM Subcarrier be used to feed a translator? Would it be legal? Grey Area? Anyone ever tried it? If it would be possible, it would be a way to create several new rural radio stations in places where putting IBOC on the air makes no sense.
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FM SCA to feed translator?
- Thread starter mbatchelor
- Start date
Short answer: No.
Translators must be used to relay a broadcast station. A translator can be used to relay the subcarrier of the primary FM station--but it must stay a subcarrier, and carry the main channel audio as the primary audio. A translator can, apparently, carry the HD-2 signal of the primary on the main channel since the HD-2 is a broadcast service--but this appears to be a gray area. A translator can carry the main channel audio of an AM signal, if the translator's location and coverage meet the particular rules for that use. Since such a translator is considered a "fill-in" it can be fed by "any terrestrial means," so presumably the AM station's audio could be fed to the translator by the subcarrier of a co-owned FM station. Much more practical to use an STL.
But a translator cannot be used to provide a "new" broadcast service by feeding it via subcarrier with original programming.
Translators must be used to relay a broadcast station. A translator can be used to relay the subcarrier of the primary FM station--but it must stay a subcarrier, and carry the main channel audio as the primary audio. A translator can, apparently, carry the HD-2 signal of the primary on the main channel since the HD-2 is a broadcast service--but this appears to be a gray area. A translator can carry the main channel audio of an AM signal, if the translator's location and coverage meet the particular rules for that use. Since such a translator is considered a "fill-in" it can be fed by "any terrestrial means," so presumably the AM station's audio could be fed to the translator by the subcarrier of a co-owned FM station. Much more practical to use an STL.
But a translator cannot be used to provide a "new" broadcast service by feeding it via subcarrier with original programming.
But cc and others can rebroadcast an hd-2. Now that's some pretty cool FCC logic eh? No sense makes (dollars and) cents.
OKCRadioGuy said:
I asked the FCC this very question a couple of years ago, thinking FMeXtra would be a neat way to do just that. I can think of all kinds of ways to super-serve various communities via translators. I got a definite "No." I was told that the reasoning for this stance is because the HD-2 feed is intended to be heard by the general public. It is "broadcasting." On the other hand SCA feeds are intended to be private feeds, and not receivable by the general public. Thus, they are not eligible to be rebroadcast on a translator.
I don't think that's effective use of the airways, but that's where we are at this juncture.
Thanks for the replies...Didn't think so, but couldn't find an answer for sure.
Read the digital papers. This whole mess was also supposed to allow broadcasters opportunities for new services.
Make your own digital service and sell radios.
Didn't work out. InBandOffChannel has too much money in DC.
Make your own digital service and sell radios.
Didn't work out. InBandOffChannel has too much money in DC.
The reply I got from Staff was not the issue of private versus broadcasting. It was that there were no radios available at Best Buy, etc. At the time HD radios were not available either.
One could make a case that any digital programming either private or public could meet the criteria for translator origination. If it provides more service, why not?
In actuality when a translator relays the programming of an HD signal it is relayed with phone lines, microwave or other means.
When AM programming is placed on a translator it is also not the Am that is received and broadcast.
In actuality when a translator relays the programming of an HD signal it is relayed with phone lines, microwave or other means.
When AM programming is placed on a translator it is also not the Am that is received and broadcast.
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
...what?
Agree with Bill. Heard one translator that was fed "off-air" from the AM station. Some folks don't understand that "fill-in" translators can be fed by all kinds of terrestrial paths. (Going back to the start of this thread, we used an SCA & STL to feed an AM station we LMA'd back in the early 90's. Wasn't that bad.)
I thought the rule was that you HAD to pull it off air? Has that changed? Or are you saying the "receiver" can be sitting right next to the main transmitter and then fed to the translator over land lines?
There's a piece of wire between the receiver and the translator. I don't believe there's an FCC spec on how long that 'wire' can be. And on AM translators, it's clearly stated that the translator can remain on during periods where the AM is not authorized to operate. That would make it kind of difficult to use an AM radio (which probably wouldn't sound that great anyway).NightAire said:
If someone wanted to it badly enough, they could start building SCA receivers and get them on the shelf at WalMart. At that point, it would be hard to argue that SCA is not a broadcast service available to the general public. Obviously no one wants it that badly.
Fill-in translators (inside the 60/57/54 dbu contour of the primary FM station--depending on class) can be fed by any terrestrial method--phone line, STL, relay from another translator, or off-air).
Translators for AM stations are, be definition, fill-in translators. So can be fed by an STL or phone line, for example.
Translators for AM stations are, be definition, fill-in translators. So can be fed by an STL or phone line, for example.
I did not know that; thanks for the info!
It's FCC logic ya know. SCAs- baadddd. "HD" radio - good! Repeating FMs out of theoretical range of the main station (requires off-air reception for input)- badddd. Cross-translating an AM to another service on FM - GOOD! These are the same bright people that almost hung us with a spinning disks for color and a AM stereo system that would drop out on mod peaks. Yes! It's our fine gov't in action! The next fun event is WHITE SPACES. That's more like television's MYspaces. Let the jamming begin!
Oh and I must not forget the "voluntary" "repacking" (translated- SD for everyone except big city cable and dish subs)that's going to be crammed down TV's throat soon. Isn't the FCC's logic just lovely?
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