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FM Simulcasts

Big pile of turd at KFRC-FM in SF as the staff is given walking papers and the station simulcasts KCBS :'(
Is this the future of FM to be regulated as the simulcast of AM stations to give em some younger audience ???
Does this mean KPLZ is about to bite it to simulcast KOMO to compete on the FM band :-[
The summer ratings prove that great programming of FM stations can lead to big ole ratings. THE WOLF was tied for
number one 25-54 in the Summer in Seattle and was never close to that as a spoken word station 8) THE WOLF in
Portland just hit number one 12+ and 25-54 8)however this cowboy thinks in these times you can expect a ton o simulcasting:
KJR-AM/FM Sports to kick the crap out of KIRO AM to keep em from going sports (bye bye Classic hits KJR-FM) :eek:
KIRO-AM/FM to kick the crap out of KOMO, KVI and KTTH (bye bye KBSG):eek:
KOMO-AM/FM to keep up with KIRO AM/FM (bye bye KPLZ) :eek:
KPTK-AM/FM to win the talk wars (bye bye JACK) :eek:
Looks like Bonneville needs an FM for KTTH and Fisher needs one for KVI and we can get this party started :p
 
As I wrote on the SF board, you put too much news/talk on FM and you'll end up ghettoing it like the AM band.

It's a disturbing trend. While it's a cost cutting move, in the end, you get what you pay for....
 
TakeItFromMe said:
Big pile of turd at KFRC-FM in SF as the staff is given walking papers and the station simulcasts KCBS :'(
Is this the future of FM to be regulated as the simulcast of AM stations to give em some younger audience ???
Does this mean KPLZ is about to bite it to simulcast KOMO to compete on the FM band :-[
The summer ratings prove that great programming of FM stations can lead to big ole ratings. THE WOLF was tied for
number one 25-54 in the Summer in Seattle and was never close to that as a spoken word station 8) THE WOLF in
Portland just hit number one 12+ and 25-54 8) however this cowboy thinks in these times you can expect a ton o simulcasting:
KJR-AM/FM Sports to kick the crap out of KIRO AM to keep em from going sports (bye bye Classic hits KJR-FM) :eek:
KIRO-AM/FM to kick the crap out of KOMO, KVI and KTTH (bye bye KBSG):eek:
KOMO-AM/FM to keep up with KIRO AM/FM (bye bye KPLZ) :eek:
KPTK-AM/FM to win the talk wars (bye bye JACK) :eek:
Looks like Bonneville needs an FM for KTTH and Fisher needs one for KVI and we can get this party started :p

Methinks you've been drinking a little too-much Emoticon Kool-Aid.

Let's face facts: Oldies demos are aging and ad buyers want 18-34. KFRC was playing oldies. The market has enough coverage of younger-demo formats. So why not simulcast? It's cheaper to operate and then you get to combine the two signals to sell the station.

KPLZ is a cash cow and isn't going to be simulcasting anything. Take that to the bank.
KJR-FM? Maybe. A slim maybe.
Jack? Why not? It's already running with zero personnel expenses.
 
But the REAL question is: What if 18-34 year olds aren't listening?

Ugly fact: They're NOT. Not by the scale the industry EXPECTS. But by now, we've all learnt that all forms of corporate business are done by speculation, not by actual REALITY, no?....

Speculation is one thing, present results and hindsight are entirely another......
 
Interesting discussion parameter regarding FM simulcasts. In my humble view this is the future of radio. The spoken word will be simulcast providing two platforms and an economic boon. Bonneville, CBS and others are leading the way. AM provides coverage in many cities that have terrain issues, can have less multipath in the car and can extend coverage at night. FM provides solid in office listening and is favored among those under the age of 40. Combining the two leads to power stations like WTOP and now KIRO which as a combo is number one in Seattle in the last monthly extrap 25-54. Recent PPM data and indepedent data show that radio remains very strong among the 18-34 audience and has actually gained strength in recent months. The decline of satellite radio (economic issue) and the slowdown in I-Pod use are some of the reasons. Simulcasts in my humble opinion will eliminate weak flanking FM signals and allow those that remain to be more profitable and have more audience. At the same time simulcasts as outlined above will extend AM brands. There has always been a belief that internet, I-Pods and satellite have diminished the radio audience. Not true. Radio is listened to by 93% of the population each week and 77% of the 18-34 year olds. This is virtually unchanged since 1990. CD, Cassette and tape in car listening has declined and been replaced by these other non-radio options (Ipods, internet et al.) In short nonradio listening morphed into other non-radio listening. Radio remains strong but owns only a 6-8% of advertising dollars. Unchanged since 1964.

It is my humble view that radio will be stronger by letting the strong FM music and personality stations survive and letting the flanking Jack, Movin and classic hits formats go to simulcasts extended the brand of AM. This is the future. Fewer formats, more simulcasts, leading to stronger brands and more cost per point advantage.
 
Prof-

That all makes sense. Which is why the active decoupling of the AM in this case is so bewildering. What do you make of the seeming plan for 710? Huge signal, heritage format, personalities, calls. And yet they are PAYING listeners to make the "switch"- as opposed to making the "addition". It is pretty clear that simulcast is not in the cards for this one much longer. How does this tie into your hypothesis, Prof?
 
radioprofessor said:
Interesting discussion parameter regarding FM simulcasts. In my humble view this is the future of radio. The spoken word will be simulcast providing two platforms and an economic boon. Bonneville, CBS and others are leading the way. AM provides coverage in many cities that have terrain issues, can have less multipath in the car and can extend coverage at night. FM provides solid in office listening and is favored among those under the age of 40. Combining the two leads to power stations like WTOP and now KIRO which as a combo is number one in Seattle in the last monthly extrap 25-54. Recent PPM data and indepedent data show that radio remains very strong among the 18-34 audience and has actually gained strength in recent months. The decline of satellite radio (economic issue) and the slowdown in I-Pod use are some of the reasons. Simulcasts in my humble opinion will eliminate weak flanking FM signals and allow those that remain to be more profitable and have more audience. At the same time simulcasts as outlined above will extend AM brands. There has always been a belief that internet, I-Pods and satellite have diminished the radio audience. Not true. Radio is listened to by 93% of the population each week and 77% of the 18-34 year olds. This is virtually unchanged since 1990. CD, Cassette and tape in car listening has declined and been replaced by these other non-radio options (Ipods, internet et al.) In short nonradio listening morphed into other non-radio listening. Radio remains strong but owns only a 6-8% of advertising dollars. Unchanged since 1964.

It is my humble view that radio will be stronger by letting the strong FM music and personality stations survive and letting the flanking Jack, Movin and classic hits formats go to simulcasts extended the brand of AM. This is the future. Fewer formats, more simulcasts, leading to stronger brands and more cost per point advantage.

Compelling arguement, but once the music dies, will FM radio become the "stereo* equivelant of a Radio Shack NOAA Weather radio cube?

I honestly think too much work has been done to let it get to that point.

All I'm saying is you'd better SERIOUSLY think this over one more time. Because once the genie's out of the bottle, there's NO putting it back...

And what if it FAILS? What's the Plan B?

You see, we love to guess here at Radio-Info (and it's a GREAT way to work off the crap of an average day in the REAL world.) But in the real world, we've discovered some unpleasant facts you may not know about until next year, Professor and that's:

1) We're having a MAJOR crisis, one that could spell the end of the radio industry as we know it.

2) There's no future in commercial radio.

3) This so-called industry doesn't know what it's got until it's gone....FOREVER.

4) The radio industry is at the point of no return, and finally,

5) Will the last AM transmitter in Seattle please turn out the lights on their way out?

Fact is, you can hope all you want, but there is nothing left to hope for - except help. But the very best help has been spurned off long ago, in the name of "potential" profits that never materialized.

Some will argue that radio stations would have gone off the air completely if not for Telecom '96. I say bulls--t. Because radio stations were cycling all the time, one owner went under or bailed out of the market, another one came in. There was no shortage of potential, some very professional, some exciting, some very eccentric new owners. No matter the outcome, the station was going to leave it's mark on the psyche of local radio fans (Remember KXRX?). You really don't see much of THAT today.

The beauty of radio is in the uniqueness TV and V-Cast cannot capture. Nor anything else and if you can simulcast it on the Internet, then more power to ya! Who needs FM on these new cell phones anyway? I'd rather be exploring REALLY NEW stuff anyway.

The point is, MAKE RADIO WORTH LISTENING TO!!
 
Does anyone know what kind of share (12+ would be fine) that KSTW-TV and MYQ-2 are getting in Daytime??

Curious because they seem to be tv's counterpart to "we can automate, voicetrack, and stick basic crap on there and people will watch and others' will buy at highly discounted rates".

Always baffles me how they can earn enough to make the operations cost worthwhile.

If those guys can make a "go" of it...then maybe there IS hope for radio's "vanillla" content to survive. The parallel being that Channel 11 is a micro-shadow of what it once was ... but it's STILL on the air (propped up, to some degree, by Sumner Redstone's checkbook----- oh wait, that's in trouble now too).

Maybe we could take up a collection on the board and buy CBS??
 
Let's not forget that the entire music industry is now trying to find ways to double the royalties radio stations pay to play someone elses content.

If this happens it may no longer be financially viable to operate a "flanker" type music station.

Of course the music industry could very well be shooting themselves in the other foot with this... as they shot their first foot with their response to downloads.

Possibly these group operators are looking to a future of radio developing its own content and no longer relying on the music industry at all. That would be the simulcast of a strong AM brand talk format on an FM.

We all know that music consumers have found other ways to get their content. radio no longer has the excusivity it had up to the download age.

Maybe we are seeing the birth of a whole new paradigm.
 
Have been reading this with some interest. From a sales point of view it seems stupid to blow up a signal and just simulcast. Once you begin adding in the costs of operation including talent, marketing and ever-increasing music fees (notalent is right on) it may make more sense to extend a brand through simulcast. A share point in Seattle 25-54 is worth about three million dollars. If you can add a share or two to an existing AM station you create three-five million dollars with no cost. To create the same three to five million profit on a flanker station in Seattle is difficult.

KIRO will eventually just be news on FM and will go sports on AM but may sell combo and that works. KOMO could beat them with an AM/FM combo. KJR-AM could beat them with an AM/FM combo. CBS could take KPTK news/talk and simulcast on one of their non-performing FM signals and make a go of it too. All are valid theories on this thread and could create some interesting radio in months to come. CBS and Bonneville are committed to creating these news combos. Time will tell if they work and others follow. Given the tough economic times the moves that reduce expense make even more sense.
 
You make it seem so simple and profitable at first. But what you fail to get out there is that once the 2nd and 3rd News and talk combos are on the air you have three stations dividing that share of the pie. I'm sure you all know what happens next? Well? Don't you get it yet? So I will remind you, (No Charge) Nine music formated stations will be in the top 10 eating your lunch, while all the similcasts will be in the lower top twenty wondering what the heck happened. Some people never learn!
 
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