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FM Stations on WTC?
- Thread starter rain9613
- Start date
When I first heard about the World Trade Center transmitter some years ago, the first station that came to mind was WNSH. I thought that the transmitter could finally give the station on 94.7 FM the coverage in Lower Manhattan that it has been lacking all these years. But as was mentioned elsewhere in this forum, there are technical and legal reasons why a different location in New Jersey was chosen as the site of its proposed new transmitter.
One major factor is cost. The rent there is significantly higher than ESB. But there are technical considerations as well.
I have been asking the same question. WMAS 94.7 might not be an issue as 1WTC is 7 miles south of the ESB. Why can’t WNSH work with WWSK Smithtown for a waiver as they are short spaced (even though the distance is ridiculous)? Couldn’t WWSK approve WNSH going to 1WTC? They (WNSH) wouldn’t have to worry about NYC signal as much, as their audience is more suburban anyway. The increase in height would send the signal into Suffolk County and possibly into Sussex County, NJ. Typically, the mountains in Sparta kill the signals from the ESB.
I don’t think WNSH’s antenna move to the WOR stick (if it ever occurs), will significantly help the signal on Long Island.
104.7’s signal does very well for a low power FM. If more stations (WPAT, WNYC and WQXR) moved to 1WTC, maybe we’d see improved coverage on Long Island, especially for HD. If WQXR moves, wouldn’t that move it further from 106.1 WBLI and 105.9 WHCN Hartford, and allow it to operate at higher power?
I don’t think WNSH’s antenna move to the WOR stick (if it ever occurs), will significantly help the signal on Long Island.
104.7’s signal does very well for a low power FM. If more stations (WPAT, WNYC and WQXR) moved to 1WTC, maybe we’d see improved coverage on Long Island, especially for HD. If WQXR moves, wouldn’t that move it further from 106.1 WBLI and 105.9 WHCN Hartford, and allow it to operate at higher power?
It's not as much north-south as east-west. The engineers determined the Lyndhurst location is as far east as they can move without a significant cut in power. Because that's the mathematics of it: Moving to WTC is a compromise of height vs. power. The higher you go, the lower the power. For example WBGO made a significant power cut to move from Newark to Times Square. From what I hear, they didn't gain all that much in Long Island coverage from the move, and they lost a chunk of NJ.
I think WBGO is directional with nulls to the East. Even though WNSH would lose power going to 1WTC, at 3300 watts, they would most likely still do better to the East than the current antenna or the Lyndhurst one. Does anyone know if and when WNSH will be moving to the Lyndhurst antenna? I hope they are not already there, as I have not seen any improvement on their signal, even at home, where I have a directional Radio Shack FM antenna in my attic. It's pegged on most of the ESB signals and I live in Massapequa Park (Southeast Nassau County). I also have a splitter inline as the antenna serves two stereo receivers.
WNSH barely comes in above my tuner's Mute/FM Stereo threshold and when it actually does, it is sometimes mixed with other stations on 94.7 due to skip. I have it aimed at 291 degrees, which is the exact antenna heading from my house to the ESB.
In my car, WNSH sometimes can be received in HD. If it falls below HD, the analog signal is quite poor until I drive 5 miles to the west. At that point, the signal is better and is in HD about half the time.
It doesn't help that the transmitting power for HD is far less than analog, so the coverage area is much less.
WNSH barely comes in above my tuner's Mute/FM Stereo threshold and when it actually does, it is sometimes mixed with other stations on 94.7 due to skip. I have it aimed at 291 degrees, which is the exact antenna heading from my house to the ESB.
In my car, WNSH sometimes can be received in HD. If it falls below HD, the analog signal is quite poor until I drive 5 miles to the west. At that point, the signal is better and is in HD about half the time.
It doesn't help that the transmitting power for HD is far less than analog, so the coverage area is much less.
The new location is still listed as a construction permit. You've probably already seen the proposed signal change will bring primary coverage to Syosset.
https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WNSH&service=FM&s=C
In addition to cost of rent, time remaining on present leases, and discussions about building penetration and coverage, compliance with FCC spacing rules is a factor. If directional pattern is required at One WTC, logistics and cost of it are a factor. Even WPAT may have to make adjustments because original WTC and new One WTC have different geographic coordinates. Seriously, the best direction for grandfathered Class Bs to move may be up. But realistically that is not likely. So settle down and make yourself at home. Make it comfy.
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I don’t think anyone has serious plans to move their FM to WTC.
It’s not as simple as a waiver for WNSH to move to WTC.
WNYC-FM and WKTU have settled in at ESB. If I recall, WPAT-FM has no plans to move back to WTC either. They seem content at ESB with lower power. If they moved downtown and went back to a full B, there would be no material improvement (there might even be a loss), but there would be significant costs.
It’s not as simple as a waiver for WNSH to move to WTC.
WNYC-FM and WKTU have settled in at ESB. If I recall, WPAT-FM has no plans to move back to WTC either. They seem content at ESB with lower power. If they moved downtown and went back to a full B, there would be no material improvement (there might even be a loss), but there would be significant costs.
We also have to consider that a move a number of miles to the south reduces the signal in the Nielsen MSA counties on the north side of the market, and does not help to the south where the market boundaries would be needlessly exceeded.
For the moment, the ESB is the optimum location.
Even though the power would be lower at 1WTC and they’d be a few miles south, wouldn’t the increased height make up for the distance?
Would a move by WQXR possibly give them more signal as they might be considered to be further away from WBLI? Their signal at ESB on 105.9 at 610 watts dropped their coverage significantly from when they had 6000 watts on 96.3?
Would a move by WQXR possibly give them more signal as they might be considered to be further away from WBLI? Their signal at ESB on 105.9 at 610 watts dropped their coverage significantly from when they had 6000 watts on 96.3?
I was just wondering if WQXR were to relocate to 1WTC (as they are owned by WNYC) would they get more power as they are further from WHCN and possibly WBLI? They had to go to 610 watts to protect 1st Adjacent WQXR and they are on a co-channel with WHCN. Wouldn't the distance downtown move them further from both transmitters? WBLI's transmitter is on the North Shore and WHCN is near Hartford.
Even though there is a power loss from the additional height at 1WTC, I wonder if their overall power would increase such that it would still scale higher than the equivalent of 610 watts from ESB.
Even though there is a power loss from the additional height at 1WTC, I wonder if their overall power would increase such that it would still scale higher than the equivalent of 610 watts from ESB.
WQXR is actually a B1, so they’ll never get material signal improvement. They’re probably saving some money on rent by co-locating their facility with WNYC-FM at ESB. Finally, moving to WTC moves them closer to first adjacent WISX/Philadelphia and WCHR-FM/Manahawkin, NJ which would both need to be addressed.
Bottom line, they’re more or less stuck where they are. WNYC knew what they were getting when they acquired the facility. Despite the signal limitation, it’s actually a good outcome. The likely alternative was no WQXR at all.
The 104.7 translator has a very directional signal. It can barely be heard in midtown Manhattan but it can be heard in Trenton NJ. Sends almost no power to the north in the direction of Beacon Mountain and K-104.
Pamal might have accepted the interference to K-104 and let the translator be non-directional if they still had their simulcast on 107.1 in Westchester, as nobody in southern Westchester would listen to 104.7. I’m sure Pamal might have been offered to lease the translator themselves and bring K-104 to NYC
Pamal might have accepted the interference to K-104 and let the translator be non-directional if they still had their simulcast on 107.1 in Westchester, as nobody in southern Westchester would listen to 104.7. I’m sure Pamal might have been offered to lease the translator themselves and bring K-104 to NYC
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