FM Talk in the A-T-L

[David67]

Let's assume, for a minute, that a prominent FM signal (96.1, 92.9, take your pick) decides to switch to an all talk format. Now, if done correctly (which means an equal mix of live and local with syndicated shows) and lots of promotion...plus, throw in an all news show between 5A-10A, what do you think the chances could be?

I would like to see something like this...

5A-10A: All News
10A-2P: Local Host (take your pick but make him good)
2P-6P: Dave Ramsey (Yes, I know GST's got him but I bet for a better signal he'd jump...contract or not...and he doesn't do contracts just for that reason...or so I've heard)
6P-10P: Phil Hendrie or Tom Lykeis (sp?)
10P-5A: Maybe Coast to Coast?

OK, your turn.

I wish there was FM talk in Atlanta,I miss the late 90s when WGST simulcasted on FM.

 

[musicfan101]

Let's assume, for a minute, that a prominent FM signal (96.1, 92.9, take your pick) decides to switch to an all talk format. Now, if done correctly (which means an equal mix of live and local with syndicated shows) and lots of promotion...plus, throw in an all news show between 5A-10A, what do you think the chances could be?

I would like to see something like this...

5A-10A: All News
10A-2P: Local Host (take your pick but make him good)
2P-6P: Dave Ramsey (Yes, I know GST's got him but I bet for a better signal he'd jump...contract or not...and he doesn't do contracts just for that reason...or so I've heard)
6P-10P: Phil Hendrie or Tom Lykeis (sp?)
10P-5A: Maybe Coast to Coast?

OK, your turn.

Hey, I was always wondering how come FM Talk - similar to what used to be on KLSX - was never tried in Atlanta? This just seems like the perfect market for that kind of talk.

 

[DToTheJ]

Hey, I was always wondering how come FM Talk - similar to what used to be on KLSX - was never tried in Atlanta?

If I recall, it was. Remember Max with Bob & Tom in the morning?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Hey, I was always wondering how come FM Talk - similar to what used to be on KLSX - was never tried in Atlanta?

If I recall, it was. Remember Max with Bob & Tom in the morning?

Bob and Tom "yak" a lot.... but when people use the term "Talk Radio" do they actually include shows like Bob and Tom within that description?

 

[kal30005]

But take WSB-AM and simulcast on...any of the other mid-level signals...

if what you mean is put quality programming on a rimshot fm, i don't disagree with you. but not WSB-AM, because they already rule the roost with their signal and ratings. as another poster pointed out, they don't need it

amos:

Thanks for your comments. Yes that is what I meant.

But I'm not sure I understand why not WSB-AM. If in Cox and I've got an under-performing "rimshot" signal, why not simulcast programming that you know is going to produce immediate ratings and essentially cost nothing? It's already a formula that works. Why recreate the wheel?

I think even on a rimshot signal, they'd probably be a top 5 rated FM station in Atlanta almost overnight. Granted, a lot of that audience would be cannibalized from the AM ratings. But I think they'd find additional listeners who don't listen to AM radio. I'm not a talk radio listener, but I actually listened to WGST when it was on FM ... because it was on FM.

I'd be curious to find out how the ratings are for the HD simulcast. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that WSB-AM on HD might be the most listened to secondary HD station in the city.

 

[jabba17]

But take WSB-AM and simulcast on...any of the other mid-level signals...

if what you mean is put quality programming on a rimshot fm, i don't disagree with you. but not WSB-AM, because they already rule the roost with their signal and ratings. as another poster pointed out, they don't need it

amos:

Thanks for your comments. Yes that is what I meant.

But I'm not sure I understand why not WSB-AM. If in Cox and I've got an under-performing "rimshot" signal, why not simulcast programming that you know is going to produce immediate ratings and essentially cost nothing? It's already a formula that works. Why recreate the wheel?

I think even on a rimshot signal, they'd probably be a top 5 rated FM station in Atlanta almost overnight. Granted, a lot of that audience would be cannibalized from the AM ratings. But I think they'd find additional listeners who don't listen to AM radio. I'm not a talk radio listener, but I actually listened to WGST when it was on FM ... because it was on FM.

I'd be curious to find out how the ratings are for the HD simulcast. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that WSB-AM on HD might be the most listened to secondary HD station in the city.

WSB-AM has the clearest AM signal in ATL by far, clear channel, with no sunset power-down. Not like WGST which has coverage problems during the day and a big powerdown at night. I'm not sure what would be gained by an FM simul except, like you said, FM dial presence. But that's a big price to pay to augment a completely serviceable 24/7 signal with a fantastic reach--especially when all of Cox's ATL FMs are at the tops of their games.

For argument's sake, could, or should, Cox simul WSB-AM on one of their Athens cluster stations (103.7, 102.1, 106.1)? How would that work? What would you gain in coverage and metro ATL FM dial presence versus loss of another format in arguably a different market that still gets covered decently by WSB-AM?

I don't think there's a there there.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

For argument's sake, could, or should, Cox simul WSB-AM on one of their Athens cluster stations (103.7, 102.1, 106.1)? How would that work? What would you gain in coverage and metro ATL FM dial presence versus loss of another format in arguably a different market that still gets covered decently by WSB-AM?

No reason to do that. But I think one of WGST's rimshot signals should be used to simulcast them (although I don't agree the AM has signal problems during the day).

My blog this week talks about this: www.atlairwaves.blogspot.com

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

No reason to do that. But I think one of WGST's rimshot signals should be used to simulcast them (although I don't agree the AM has signal problems during the day).

I guess that depends on how you define the geography of the market. If you are talking about the city limits of Atlanta, then yes, they have a no-problem daytime signal.

Now if you live out here in the center of Forsyth County or maybe Cherokee County which are devoid of commercial radio licenses because they have been sucked into Atlanta through the years, .... if you live out here in no-mans land you have to say: "Self: for the purposes of RADIO you are part of Atlanta!" And then you have to say: "Self: Atlanta A.M. signals really suck out here in this part of the market." And some days that would include saying: "Even the all-powerful WSB has a signal that sucks!"

 

[jabba17]

No reason to do that. But I think one of WGST's rimshot signals should be used to simulcast them (although I don't agree the AM has signal problems during the day).

I guess that depends on how you define the geography of the market. If you are talking about the city limits of Atlanta, then yes, they have a no-problem daytime signal.

Now if you live out here in the center of Forsyth County or maybe Cherokee County which are devoid of commercial radio licenses because they have been sucked into Atlanta through the years, .... if you live out here in no-mans land you have to say: "Self: for the purposes of RADIO you are part of Atlanta!" And then you have to say: "Self: Atlanta A.M. signals really suck out here in this part of the market." And some days that would include saying: "Even the all-powerful WSB has a signal that sucks!"

I've found that WGST is much more susceptible to RFI (traffic lights, high voltage power lines, etc.) than WSB or WCNN, and sometimes even WDUN. Once you get OTP WGST seems to trip over any source of interference, especially during critical hours (I know they don't have to power down, but you start to get other-signal interference even while they are still at 50k).

 

[LarryWachs]

I see myself hosting a show 10p-2a for an "alternative" audience. Whoever is programming this, you know where to find me!

 

[Mr_Winston-Salem]

The average age of a conservative talk listener is 67. Most liberals turn to the internet and not the radio. WGST would have to make some major changes and work hard to attract younger listeners. Something WSB is doing. This is expensive for FM and won't have the high returns (profits) another format would have. I would leave WGST on AM and use the FMs to reach a younger audience, while spending less money to reach them. If you live in the northeast metro and can't listen to WGST, you are likely listening to 550 WDUN. There are many places to hear Rush and conservative talk. To me, it's not worth it. WSB does well on AM and doesn't need the help. This frees the FMs to make additional profits.

 

[agentUrge]

I read somewhere on this board that, as you said, the average age group for conservative talk radio is older..and since talk radio has always traditionally been in AM (as far back as I can remember), liberal talk on an AM freq wouldn't do well. At the same time the person posting this info was also saying that most liberal talk programs that are doing well actually exist on FM stations (I don't know how true this is ). I would venture to guess that in cities where liberal talk would do well, like Asheville, they can thrive on AM...whereas a more conservative town like Jacksonville (at least it was pretty conservative when i lived there) would require a liberal talk show to be on FM...Air America is on FM down there..not sure how well it's doing though.

 

[nightmanager]

The average age of a conservative talk listener is 67.

Are you sure about that? Think about what that means: that half of the listeners are older than 67, and half are younger.

The average male/female life expectancy in the US is currently 78. For men alone, it's 75. So 67 implies there is a gigantic percentage of people alive between 67 and 78 all listening to talk radio, just to balance out the ones who are younger. Forget the ones who don't listen at all, or listen to music. Most of them are probably retired and not taking part in drive time or listening while they work.

Not even Ludlow Poorch skews that old. OK, maybe HE does. But does anyone else? Don Kennedy's BBJ, maybe. Certainly not a Rush or Boortz or Hannity. If so, one of them would surely be crowing about "#1 while you play cards in the old folks home!"

That's not a great image. My apologies.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

The average age of a conservative talk listener is 67.

Are you sure about that? Think about what that means: that half of the listeners are older than 67, and half are younger.

The average male/female life expectancy in the US is currently 78. For men alone, it's 75. So 67 implies there is a gigantic percentage of people alive between 67 and 78 all listening to talk radio, just to balance out the ones who are younger. Forget the ones who don't listen at all, or listen to music. Most of them are probably retired and not taking part in drive time or listening while they work.

Not even Ludlow Poorch skews that old. OK, maybe HE does. But does anyone else? Don Kennedy's BBJ, maybe. Certainly not a Rush or Boortz or Hannity. If so, one of them would surely be crowing about "#1 while you play cards in the old folks home!"

That's not a great image. My apologies.

What is the old adage that the guys sitting on the bench in the shadow of the court house (known as the Whitlers Bench) say:

Figures lie.
Liars figure.

The math gets even more complicated if you ask the orginal poster to clarify if we are talking about AVERAGE age of listenters or MEDIAN age of listeners.

 

[Surfer]

I'd say let's look at BOTH (because my math skills suck!) ;D

 

[agentUrge]

Hell, I remember "Snake" Davis would say "What happens to liberals when they get older...the become conservatives". Not that I agree with that...my dad's 84 and he's pretty liberal leaning...then again, my inlaws are in their 60's and they lean more to the right every day.

 

[Mr_Winston-Salem]

I've seen teens listening to big band and standards and young people who love oldies. They can sing along with the Beatles and Elvis. Listeners always question the numbers, but this is what buyers see and it costs them more to convince an older audience to buy from a different car dealership or try something new. A bigger problem with a conservative audience of any age. Anything over 54 leads to less revenue and lower profits. WSB has managed to attract a young audience for some of its shows, but you never see WSB or WGST at the top in the 18-34. They only show on the 25-54. Considering few target the older demos, they have less options and this pushes the 25-54 numbers upward for talk radio. Of all the on-air personalities on WSB and WGST, WSB's Scott Slade has the youngest audience. WSB is up to the challenge, but WGST isn't and will have to attract a young audience. I don't think CC will make this kind of investment in WGST. The election numbers from 2008 seem to agree, conservatives are older. The older age groups support McCain and the younger age groups support Obama. Numbers show the average Republican (both moderate and conservative) is 45+, lives in a small town or rural area, attends church and the education numbers are almost 50/50, but the more educated do favor Democrats by a small margin.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Listeners always question the numbers, but this is what buyers see and it costs them more to convince an older audience to buy from a different car dealership or try something new.

Can someone quote for me the authority for this claim in today's world. Back when department stores were run by the same family for three genertions, yes it was hard to pull people away from their established habits.

Yes, when car dealerships had the dealers name as the store name and the dealer had been there 30 years, it was hard to pull people away. Today you go into a dealership named Queen City Motors or Shopping Place Toyota and you have NO IDEA who owns it. You go in and ask for the salesman who worked with you on selecting a possible car three weeks ago and the standard answer is: "Oh! He doesn't work here any more" and the new dude gives you his business card with his name printed in ball point pen.

I think there is a possibility that this "religious dogma" that old people can't be steered by advertising is out of date for today's reality.

The election numbers from 2008 seem to agree, conservatives are older. The older age groups support McCain and the younger age groups support Obama. Numbers show the average Republican (both moderate and conservative) is 45+, lives in a small town or rural area, attends church and the education numbers are almost 50/50, but the more educated do favor Democrats by a small margin.

This may have been true in 1982 or 1992. Who has the reference on where this info is documented. Is it true for the voting arena of 2010, or is this an old concept that today's buyers cling to and fail to question?

 

[LarryWachs]

OK, OK. If you guys are going to keep begging, I'll just post it: blogtv.com/people/witstream. The show is on hiatus, but the talent hasn't gone anywhere. You wanna try something fresh and new...here you go...

 

[SalBass]

No reason to do that. But I think one of WGST's rimshot signals should be used to simulcast them (although I don't agree the AM has signal problems during the day).

I guess that depends on how you define the geography of the market. If you are talking about the city limits of Atlanta, then yes, they have a no-problem daytime signal.

Now if you live out here in the center of Forsyth County or maybe Cherokee County which are devoid of commercial radio licenses because they have been sucked into Atlanta through the years, .... if you live out here in no-mans land you have to say: "Self: for the purposes of RADIO you are part of Atlanta!" And then you have to say: "Self: Atlanta A.M. signals really suck out here in this part of the market." And some days that would include saying: "Even the all-powerful WSB has a signal that sucks!"

I've found that WGST is much more susceptible to RFI (traffic lights, high voltage power lines, etc.) than WSB or WCNN, and sometimes even WDUN. Once you get OTP WGST seems to trip over any source of interference, especially during critical hours (I know they don't have to power down, but you start to get other-signal interference even while they are still at 50k).

I live ITP in the NE quad and I get Louisville and Nashville stronger than GST. No chit.