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FM TALK/NEWS: WOULD IT WORK? THOUGHTS...

As many notice, sometimes the banner ad at the top of Radio-Info advertises TRN, and TRN boasts about their syndicated FM Talk programs and overall formats (http://www.trn1.com/fm) (http://www.trn1.com/uploads/files/TRN_FM.pdf)
(When I'm talking about FM Talk, I'm talking about TRN style talk, not what KLSX was doing)

The PDF file goes as far as saying that "Previous companies have tried FM talk
and failed. Why? Specifically, in 2005 CBS/Infinity did not use a proven model and instead, launched the untested “Free FM” model across several Top markets. Stations who use successful programming models have proven it can and does succeed on FM. Consider KIRO, Seattle, WTOP, Washington, KSL, Salt Lake, KTAR, Phoenix, WOKV, Jacksonville, WHIO, Dayton, WTDA, Columbus and KFH, Wichita, just a few examples of proven AM
programming models that work on the FM Dial."


Is this just an advertisement or would a station doing political bound and news work on the FM dial in LA?
 
radiojomo said:
As many notice, sometimes the banner ad at the top of Radio-Info advertises TRN, and TRN boasts about their syndicated FM Talk programs and overall formats (http://www.trn1.com/fm) (http://www.trn1.com/uploads/files/TRN_FM.pdf)
(When I'm talking about FM Talk, I'm talking about TRN style talk, not what KLSX was doing)

The PDF file goes as far as saying that "Previous companies have tried FM talk
and failed. Why? Specifically, in 2005 CBS/Infinity did not use a proven model and instead, launched the untested “Free FM” model across several Top markets. Stations who use successful programming models have proven it can and does succeed on FM. Consider KIRO, Seattle, WTOP, Washington, KSL, Salt Lake, KTAR, Phoenix, WOKV, Jacksonville, WHIO, Dayton, WTDA, Columbus and KFH, Wichita, just a few examples of proven AM
programming models that work on the FM Dial."


Is this just an advertisement or would a station doing political bound and news work on the FM dial in LA?
I don't think so. I mean, LA is a very unique place. Many kinds of formats that are in other cities would just not work here for some reason. I think that companies more so want to use brands that originate in LA and use them in other markets (The Wave, FM Talk, Jack FM, AMP, KIIS, KROQ, etc.)

As that quote mention Free FM was a complete failure in most cities outside of L.A., that was only because they used unproven hosts (Booker?!? Come on!) or they just found hosts who bombed out at their local comedy club and wanted to give them a shot on the air. Talk has to be done properly for it to work...
 
Well, any news/talk format will do better on FM, given that 80% of TSL is on the FM band. That being said, I would hope that the industry would start looking at flavors of the format other than the string of Rushclones that TRN produces... ;D
 
jimwalsh2001 said:
Well, any news/talk format will do better on FM, given that 80% of TSL is on the FM band. That being said, I would hope that the industry would start looking at flavors of the format other than the string of Rushclones that TRN produces... ;D
I know...I would cringe at the fact that Mancow would be on the air in LA again...Remember the AM570 days? Ew...
 
K6JHU said:
FM Talk - Anybody been looking down at KPCC, KCRW, KPFA. I think FM talk is alive down there.
I was referring to male-oriented FM talk
 
Talk on FM can work anywhere-as long as it's programmed well. For example, KFI would probably have even better ratings on FM then they do now on AM, simply because they ARE on FM!
See, there's a pretty good percentage of listeners that simply never put on AM today-and KFI is losing them by being exclusively on AM. In just about every market where an AM talker either began simulcasitng on an FM or moved over to FM their ratings have gone UP!
 
LA_Guy said:
Talk on FM can work anywhere-as long as it's programmed well. For example, KFI would probably have even better ratings on FM then they do now on AM, simply because they ARE on FM!
See, there's a pretty good percentage of listeners that simply never put on AM today-and KFI is losing them by being exclusively on AM. In just about every market where an AM talker either began simulcasitng on an FM or moved over to FM their ratings have gone UP!

Here in the Bay Area, I don't think anybody doubts that our big talker - KGO - would gain ratings (and a younger demo) by either simulcasting on FM, or going FM entirely. But it's owned by Citadel, so it's not going to happen.

It's an entirely different and riskier proposition to start a new talk station from the ground up.

The last 3 attempts at FM talk here - KGO-FM in the 80s, KPIX-FM in the 90s, and Free-FM in 2006 were all failures. Free-FM was a perfect storm of bad management - both of the high-profile local hosts were terminated - one for allegedly being drunk on air, and the other (John London) for saying he would pay somebody to kill Penn Gillette. London was offended because Gillette had allegedly made distasteful comments about Mother Teresa on his network show. Though some believed London was just doing his "shock-jock" thing, CBS was not amused.
 
K6JHU said:
FM Talk - Anybody been looking down at KPCC, KCRW, KPFA. I think FM talk is alive down there.

If you can get past the somnolent tone of NPR shows I suppose but IMHO, not really a good case for the viability of FM-News/Talk. On the other hand KFI places high in the overall ratings so AM-Talk seems to work. I think that the people who seem to want AM to die are underestimating it. The band lends itself to non-music programming and if it weren't for I-Hash it might even be acceptable for some types of music.

The problem is that younger people aren't AM users and the poor reception or outright omission of the band on portable devices doesn't help raise their awareness. However I find it more useable on car and home radios without the picket-fencing and multipath distortion issues that plague FM especially in big cities with skyscrapers and more so in LA with the mountains. AM outperforms FM except in high noise areas and without shutting off a lot of modern gadgets that is the big negative for the band besides the self generated noise of IBOC.

Even in my new super secret location in the heart of the nation I get FM reception in my apartment because the building rules prohibit outside aerials or window antennas and the supplied T-wire antennas gives me annoying fading and distortion as I move around the room. This is a problem for me as the two strongest local FM stations are not programmed to my tastes. AM on the other hand comes in great, especially at night with the skip. I can now get the Opry on WSM live, which is takes me back to when I was a kid back in Ohio.
 
"...because the building rules prohibit outside aerials or window antennas and the supplied T-wire antennas gives me annoying fading and distortion as I move around the room."

Try taping the t-wire to the inside glass on the window to one side. If that works, get some thin wire and replace the legs of the T so it won't be so noticable.
 
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

KLSX just saw a huge hole/opportunity (that Bonneville passed on) and took it....realizing that KIIS was on a free ride!

The Sound or The Wave could easily make the switch, install great talent and quickly realize solid ratings!

They better do it before KFI gets ahold of an FM signal !
 
airpab said:
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

KLSX just saw a huge hole/opportunity (that Bonneville passed on) and took it....realizing that KIIS was on a free ride!

The Sound or The Wave could easily make the switch, install great talent and quickly realize solid ratings!

They better do it before KFI gets ahold of an FM signal !

Best bet would be KFI if C/C turned one of their LA FM signals over to the format. Inventing something from the ground up would be harder and an uphill battle given the market's apparent saturation of news talk at present.

Posted by: K6JHU

"...because the building rules prohibit outside aerials or window antennas and the supplied T-wire antennas gives me annoying fading and distortion as I move around the room."

Try taping the t-wire to the inside glass on the window to one side. If that works, get some thin wire and replace the legs of the T so it won't be so noticable.


Thought of that but they do an annual inspection, maybe I can put it up and take it down as the do notify before they come in. Actually the station that I want most also streams so maybe Santa will bring me a wireless internet radio. I have mostly been good so why not? ;D
 
Clear Channel wouldn't want to flip one of their FM's to KFI because all of the FM's are doing well (w/the exception of 98.7). But, CC wouldn't want to do some simulcast because, they want as much money as possible, meaning, they would go for something else that would make them even more money.

Having another company re-launch a KLSX style format would not be building from the ground-up. All the other companies would do is hire those proven, talented hosts that were on 97.1 and simply just slide them into the new station.

I don't think a news/talk format would work here because, as I mentioned earlier, we are different that other markets. The only talk that would work is the male-oriented talk format. Bonneville, should at least give it a shot, from what I understand, they are not losing any money from the recession...
 
airpab said:
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

You can't make it without a winning morning show. And after Stern left, they didn't have one.
 
michael hagerty said:
airpab said:
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

You can't make it without a winning morning show. And after Stern left, they didn't have one.
Adam was a decent morning host! I don't see how the station "can't make it" if FHF, Leykis, and Conway were kicking serious ass in the ratings?
 
musicfan101 said:
michael hagerty said:
airpab said:
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

You can't make it without a winning morning show. And after Stern left, they didn't have one.
Adam was a decent morning host! I don't see how the station "can't make it" if FHF, Leykis, and Conway were kicking serious ass in the ratings?

Morning drive accounts for at least half of a station's ad revenue. Middays, afternoons and especially evenings can't make up for an underperforming morning.

If FHF and Leykis were in fact "kicking serious ass", then Adam needed to be way more than "decent".
 
musicfan101 said:
michael hagerty said:
airpab said:
It's not a matter of "would". It does/did work!

KLSX was doing very well in many dayparts? Leykis, Frosty & others were pulling significant numbers for KLSX !

You can't make it without a winning morning show. And after Stern left, they didn't have one.
Adam was a decent morning host! I don't see how the station "can't make it" if FHF, Leykis, and Conway were kicking serious ass in the ratings?
No, nope. In my very personal opinion Carolla was the worst host on all of Free FM. Worse than O&A, worse than Rover. No wonder managment tried to improve the show by adding Donabouce. They had to do something with the quality of that show.

edit: not worse than david lee roth
 
Musicfan, give it up. The format did not work, does not work, and will not work because no one will be bringing it back for the reasons others have already laid out. Not every format is meant for local FM radio. Try podcasts, the internet, or Sat radio. Almost all of the FM talk types are on one of these formats. No amount of posting on this board is going to convince CBS to drop the Wave and put on Danny Bonaduce.
 
ChannelFlipper said:
Musicfan, give it up. The format did not work, does not work, and will not work because no one will be bringing it back for the reasons others have already laid out. Not every format is meant for local FM radio. Try podcasts, the internet, or Sat radio. Almost all of the FM talk types are on one of these formats. No amount of posting on this board is going to convince CBS to drop the Wave and put on Danny Bonaduce.
Dude, I'm so tired of your constant bullshit about how the format didn't work! This is the exact kind of s*** I was talking about! So, it's okay to criticize how bad one of my favorite stations were, and say it won't work, but it is a[EDIT]
sin to give any criticism to 100.3 the sound!?!

Do you realize in most instances 97.1 outdid 100.3 in the ratings??? Or, do you just live in your own bubble and don't see that?

[EDIT]
I apologize to everyone else, but ChannelFlipper has really sent me over the edge with this post!

[EDIT-inflammatory/profanity]
 
musicfan101 said:
ChannelFlipper said:
Musicfan, give it up. The format did not work, does not work, and will not work because no one will be bringing it back for the reasons others have already laid out. Not every format is meant for local FM radio. Try podcasts, the internet, or Sat radio. Almost all of the FM talk types are on one of these formats. No amount of posting on this board is going to convince CBS to drop the Wave and put on Danny Bonaduce.
Dude, I'm so tired of your constant bullshit about how the format didn't work! This is the exact kind of s*** I was talking about! So, it's okay to criticize how bad one of my favorite stations were, and say it won't work, but it is a[EDIT]
sin to give any criticism to 100.3 the sound!?!

Do you realize in most instances 97.1 outdid 100.3 in the ratings??? Or, do you just live in your own bubble and don't see that?

[EDIT]
I apologize to everyone else, but ChannelFlipper has really sent me over the edge with this post!

[EDIT-inflammatory/profanity]

Musicfan:

97.1 KLSX did beat 100.3 The Sound. But The Sound has only been on the air since April 10, 2008. If its numbers don't improve, it will probably change format. However, any owner that invests millions of dollars in a format and doesn't give it at least two years (with changes and adjustments along the way) to show profitability or the likelihood of profitablility is just flushing money down the toilet. When the format is relatively low-cost, the odds of profitability improve.

KLSX's talk format had been on the air for 15 years. It was very successful for 12 of those years, both in ratings and advertising revenue. And then Howard Stern left. No, he wasn't God. But a huge portion of KLSX's morning listeners made choices other than Adam Carolla. The decline in listeners greatly reduced the amount of money KLSX could charge for its advertising...a critical blow, since, as I noted in an earlier post, more than half the revenue for a typical station comes from mornings.

The excess cash KLSX generated with Stern's ratings allowed them to run a very expensive format with high-priced talent (FHF, Leykis) and still make money. When morning ratings and revenue dropped, that changed.

CBS gave Adam Carolla three years to turn it around. It didn't happen.

I know you're a listener and not a broadcaster, but there are some realities of radio that you need to realize or else you're just going to drive yourself crazy.

First and foremost: It's a business. Job one is to make money. Publicly-traded companies like CBS are under enormous pressure from stockholders to deliver huge ROI (return on investment). If they don't, the Board of Directors can fire the guys in charge (see General Motors this week), and even push to sell...putting the company in play for a hostile takeover. CBS execs risked that kind of stockholder wrath through 3 very bad years.

Private companies, like Bonneville, can make their own decisions as to how much profit they need to see. Maybe it's just to be in the black instead of in the red. It's their call, and they have a lot more breathing room.

Ratings tend to be what drive revenue...but depending on the costs to do the format, a ratings winner can be a money loser, and a lower-rated station can be profitable.

As long as live talk radio continues to be expensive to do (and any host with talent enough to do talk successfully in Los Angeles should be expensive), it will need a huge revenue-generating morning show to pay more than its share of the cost. And so far, no one has been able to find one other than Stern.

And finally...one other reality of radio, shared with the Mafia: It's not personal, it's just business.
 
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