FM Translators

[CommoChief]

I have (just now) noticed that there are quite a few FM translators on the air in middle Tennessee. Where did all these stations come from - as in - were they applied for and granted like regular FM and AM stations or were they auctioned off by the FCC? If I am understanding correctly what I am reading on the boards, it seems you can buy and sell these frequencies and move them around from town to town. Is there a "ball park" price for the translators or basically what the buyer is willing to give? :-[

 

[secondchoice]

I sure there are lurking on this board a couple of engineering or owner types that have some of the translators. A number of these have come from religious operators some of who have (had) these things all over the country for their "network". Some of them were secured by commercial broadcaster to "fill in" coverage areas. What few prices I have seen, somewhere around $30K to $50K for a small non rated town. I am sure a larger market 250 watt at 800ft or more HAAT will command a much better price.

 

[firepoint525]

I'm noticing that when AM stations pick FM translators, they suddenly start de-emphasizing the AM station, and start promoting the FM side. For instance, WDKN in Dickson has started calling themselves "The One" (really original, there! :) for their FM translator at 101.5.

Referencing a reply on another thread here, this may be what WQZQ is doing, too.

 

[Kent]

I'm noticing that when AM stations pick FM translators, they suddenly start de-emphasizing the AM station, and start promoting the FM side. For instance, WDKN in Dickson has started calling themselves "The One" (really original, there! :) for their FM translator at 101.5.

If I had an AM with an FM translator, I wouldn't mention the AM even once unless, maybe, it was a real blowtorch. There's really not much reason to. If you're trying to make money, your can't go after a target audience that'll look for you on AM!

 

[firepoint525]

I'm noticing that when AM stations pick FM translators, they suddenly start de-emphasizing the AM station, and start promoting the FM side. For instance, WDKN in Dickson has started calling themselves "The One" (really original, there! :) for their FM translator at 101.5.

If I had an AM with an FM translator, I wouldn't mention the AM even once unless, maybe, it was a real blowtorch. There's really not much reason to. If you're trying to make money, your can't go after a target audience that'll look for you on AM!

Well, you're required to, at least once an hour, by the FCC! ;D

 

[secondchoice]

I'm noticing that when AM stations pick FM translators, they suddenly start de-emphasizing the AM station, and start promoting the FM side. For instance, WDKN in Dickson has started calling themselves "The One" (really original, there! :) for their FM translator at 101.5.

If I had an AM with an FM translator, I wouldn't mention the AM even once unless, maybe, it was a real blowtorch. There's really not much reason to. If you're trying to make money, your can't go after a target audience that'll look for you on AM!

If you have a translator / AM the translator:

#1 The FM signal can not "extend" past the AM's signal. (I forget the RF level now) so you are not getting as much coverage (people able to listen) with the FM as you are with the AM.

#2 You are most likely in a "non rated" market (under 25K) and that "target audience that'll look for you on AM!" most likely will be a large part of your base audience. Narrow formats or "narrow casting" (AAA or AA for example) in a under 25K area usually will not work financially. Hopefully there will not be multiple competing operators! You most likely with end up with a "generic" country, AC / Hot AC hybrid, or classic hits/ rock hybrid, CHR / Hot AC hybrid or talk format.

 

[Kent]

Well, you're required to, at least once an hour, by the FCC! ;D

Nah, you just have to mention the call letters! Since there's no "AM" suffix, the casual listener would never know it's on AM!! ;D

 

[Kent]

#1 The FM signal can not "extend" past the AM's signal. (I forget the RF level now) so you are not getting as much coverage (people able to listen) with the FM as you are with the AM.

This is correct. However, no one cares that the AM signal goes significantly further than the FM translator! Most of the money demo simply won't tune to AM.

#2 You are most likely in a "non rated" market (under 25K) and that "target audience that'll look for you on AM!" most likely will be a large part of your base audience. Narrow formats or "narrow casting" (AAA or AA for example) in a under 25K area usually will not work financially. Hopefully there will not be multiple competing operators! You most likely with end up with a "generic" country, AC / Hot AC hybrid, or classic hits/ rock hybrid, CHR / Hot AC hybrid or talk format.

The notion that an older audience is going to be your base is garbage, even in an unrated market. Virtually no one under 35 will tune to AM, ever, and most of the 35-50 crowd will avoid it, too. I wish that weren't the way things are, but, if you're running a radio station, you're the tail. You can't wag the dog! You are, however, absolutely correct that I'd likely run a fairly generic format if I were in that situation, though I'd prefer to call it mainstream!

 

[firepoint525]

#1 The FM signal can not "extend" past the AM's signal. (I forget the RF level now) so you are not getting as much coverage (people able to listen) with the FM as you are with the AM.

How do you explain WQZQ, I think those are the call letters, the station at AM 830? They have TWO translators, 101.9 covering Clarksville, and 102.1 for Nashville. No way that the AM can cover all that, at least not with a listenable signal.

 

[w9wi]

#1 The FM signal can not "extend" past the AM's signal. (I forget the RF level now) so you are not getting as much coverage (people able to listen) with the FM as you are with the AM.

How do you explain WQZQ, I think those are the call letters, the station at AM 830? They have TWO translators, 101.9 covering Clarksville, and 102.1 for Nashville. No way that the AM can cover all that, at least not with a listenable signal.

That's interesting.. I'd been assuming the Clarksville translator is inside the 2mV/m contour -- but it isn't. Not even close. According to the contour map they submitted with the AM application, the 2mV/m doesn't quite reach the Montgomery County line. It's also 39.7 miles from the AM site, so the "within 25 miles" clause doesn't apply either.

When it first went on the air, the WQZQ programming was also carried on WPRT-FM's (102.5) HD2. Both translators are well within WPRT's contour. But WPRT turned off the HD some time ago. (and I can confirm it's off right now)

 

[firepoint525]

Well, you're required to, at least once an hour, by the FCC! ;D

Nah, you just have to mention the call letters! Since there's no "AM" suffix, the casual listener would never know it's on AM!!

But you'd still have to give the call letters for that translator, which would likely be a combination of letters and numbers.

 

[w9wi]

(Firepoint: translators can be IDd through automatic means involving Morse Code, placed on the signal in such a way that it can't be heard on ordinary radios. If you do ID your translators by voice, you don't need to ID them every hour. Only three IDs per day are required.)

OK, to make this probably too long... a list of currently-authorized translators within 80km (50mi) of Nashville.

89.1: W206BO, Dickson (Edgewood Place, NW of town); 19w/80m, relays KAWZ-89.9 Twin Falls, Idaho. (CSN International religion)
89.9: W210CD, Hendersonville (Stop 30 Rd., E of New Shackle Island); 80w/21m, relays 88.7 Way FM
90.7: W214BQ, Brentwood (a few hundred feet NW of the Channel 2 tower); 10w/213m, relays KAWZ
91.9: W220EE, Columbia (Reservoir Hill, W of downtown); 38w/62m, carries Bible Broadcasting Network. (same network as WYFN-980)
93.5: W228CB, Hartsville (WTNK-1090 tower, S of town); 250w/9m, relays WTNK-1090
93.9: W230AD, Gallatin (Douglas Loop & Scotty Parker Rd., W of 109 & NW of town); 100w/115m, relays WECV-89.1
95.9: W240CA, Reubensville (Between Hwy. 52 & Fowler Ford Rd., S of Parkers Chapel); 15w/74m, relays WQKR-1270
96.7: W244CJ*, Woodbury (S of town); 250w/4m, relays WBRY-1540
97.5: W248BM, Murfreesboro (NW of Woodbury Pike & Hwy. 70S, well east of town); 120w/156m, relays 88.7 Way FM@
98.9: W255AP, Dickson (Sylvia Rd. N of town); 23w/50m, relays WNKJ-89.9 Hopkinsville, Kentucky (religious)
99.3: W257AR, Donelson (end of Leaho Court); 3w/90m, relays WAMB-1200
99.3: W257BX, Columbia (Reservoir Hill, W of downtown); 60w/54m, relays 88.7 Way FM
99.5: W258AD, Clarksville (Louisiana Ave. N of Laura Drive, W of town); 20w/93m, relays WECV-89.1
100.5: W263AI, Murfreesboro (WGNS-1450 tower, Church & Broad Sts.); 250w/66m, relays WGNS-1450
100.5: W263AE, Lewisburg (WJJM-1490 tower N of town); 250w/158m, relays WLLX-97.5 (?)
100.7: W264AD, Columbia (Reservoir Hill, W of towntown); 250w/55m, relays WLLX-97.5
101.5: W268BN, Dickson (WDKN-1260 tower NW of town); 250w/106m, relays WDKN-1260
101.9: W270AF, Murfreesboro (WGNS-1450 tower, Church & Broad Sts.); 55w/40m, #
101.9: W270AB, Lebanon (WKDA-900/WCOR-1490 tower E of town); 38w/-128m&, relays WECV-89.1
101.9: W270BK, Clarksville (apartment building, 3rd & Madison Sts.); 250w/35m, relays WQZQ-830
102.1: W271AB, Nashville (WSMV ch. 4 tower); 145w/246m, relays WQZQ-830
105.5: W288BG, Lebanon (Franklin Rd. between 109 and 840, SW of town); 10w/151m, relays KAWZ-89.9.

* This translator's and WBRY's licenses have been deleted; however, this appears to be a clerical snafu with the renewal.
? (I'm not too sure this is who is actually relayed)
# Co-owned with WAMB-1200 but I'm pretty sure I've heard WGNS on this translator.
@ I think this may be old information, I think I've heard WMOT-89.5 on this translator.
& I'm pretty sure -128m is a typo.

I have marked in bold face the ones I've heard & can confirm the programming source on.

 

[Kent]

That's interesting.. I'd been assuming the Clarksville translator is inside the 2mV/m contour -- but it isn't. Not even close. According to the contour map they submitted with the AM application, the 2mV/m doesn't quite reach the Montgomery County line. It's also 39.7 miles from the AM site, so the "within 25 miles" clause doesn't apply either.
When it first went on the air, the WQZQ programming was also carried on WPRT-FM's (102.5) HD2. Both translators are well within WPRT's contour. But WPRT turned off the HD some time ago. (and I can confirm it's off right now)

According to the records I saw, both of the WQZQ translators are supposed to relay WPRT-FM. Like you said, the Clarksville one can't legally relay 830. I can't speak for whether the HD is running on 102.5, but it sounds like they'd have a problem if they turned it off.