Food for thought: why are AM & FM ratings combined?

[wadio]

At first blush this might sound like an insane question, but think about it:

- AM programming is completely different from FM programming (at least in NYC)

- There's a very different set of users -- I'm an AM listener (because of my taste in programming, not the antiquated technology) who seldom listens to FM -- many people are the exact opposite

- Identical programming can be heard streaming on the Internet yet those streams aren't included in PPM ratings (are they?) People are just as likely to alternate between AM and the Internet or FM and the Internet as between AM and FM.

- There's less commonality to that piece of hardware called a "radio" since many other devices now contain FM tuners -- but not AM.

- Why, for example, should WCBS-AM have to compete for "share" with CBS-FM? What do they "share" except for corporate ownership? WCBS-AM is more likely competing with CNN or Yahoo News more so than CBS-FM.

It seems to me this is a matter of, "That's the way we've always done it." Thoughts?

 

[DToTheJ]

I have never seen where the ratings for WCBS-AM and WCBS-FM have been combined. Only when an AM and FM station are simulcast could the ratings be combined. Meanwhile, WMAL-AM and WMAL-FM in Washington are listed in the ratings books individually - go figure...

 

[wadio]

No, you missed my point ... I'm not talking about combined ratings ... just the opposite. I'm saying that AM radio and FM radio are separate universes ... as separate as radio and TV or TV and the movies. Why should they be measured together? I guess my subject line is misleading ... I should have asked, "Why aren't AM and FM measured separately?"

 

[SonoSational18]

Maybe they are in your world, but many cross back and forth between AM and FM.... and of course now we're seeing "AM" formats (i.e. news, talk, sports) on FM. Agency buyers look at AM and FM as one medium so they want to compare them side by side. Having said that, though, all things being equal, ratings-wise, a spoken word station will generally out-pull a soft music station in adverising results.

 

[wadio]

Maybe they are in your world, but many cross back and forth between AM and FM.... and of course now we're seeing "AM" formats (i.e. news, talk, sports) on FM. Agency buyers look at AM and FM as one medium so they want to compare them side by side. Having said that, though, all things being equal, ratings-wise, a spoken word station will generally out-pull a soft music station in adverising results.

Agreed, but they cross back and forth between TV, Satellite, TV and the Internet too.

 

[TimeIsTight]

If I understand your premise correctly, you wonder why there isn't a separate ratings list just for FM stations and another for AM stations, much the way there is a separate rating system for TV.

Advertisers are interested in getting their audio messages to specific crowds and they probably really don't care that much which transmission method is used. And broadcasters would have nothing to gain by such a ratings segregation, although in some markets the FM stations now all sit at the top of the desirable demos and ratings and the AM stations are increasingly falling to a separate area at the bottom of the pile. Markets with 50-kw stations may have a few well established AM exceptions, as is the case in NYC.

As for the importance of audience "share" some advertisers want to know what percentage of the folks with their radios on at a give time they are reaching. Share can be important to advertisers who buy spots around the same time on multiple stations to try and reach as many potential listeners in a particular demo as they can. Again, they are interested in "audio impressions" and not necessarily what particular type of programming, although some advertisers prefer news or talk because they are foreground formats that listeners may pay closer attention to than music playing in the background.

Radio station streams do get rated along with AM and FM stations in PPM markets where they draw a large enough audience to be counted.

Take a look at the bottom of the Philly ratings, and you will find a number of "streams" listed. You will also see a lot of streams listed at the bottom of Market-41 Middlesex-Somerset-Union in New Jersey. Most don't get enough listeners to matter, but the mechanisms are there.

If you do look at the Philly market, look at the ratings and cume for all the AM stations with the exception of the two 50-kw AMs owned by CBS, KYW and WPHT. Oh how the once mighty AMs in that market have fallen.

 

[jhguthlac]

In far too many markets, there are not enough AM listeners to warrant a separate listing. In my market, Wilmington DE, only around 7% of listening time is devoted to AM.

In NYC, the once mighty WMCA and WWRL are out of it. In Philly, as pointed out here, WFIL and 990 (WIBG/WZZD) are near the bottom of the heap.
the landscape has changed since the 60's/70's.

I am another one of those who rarely listens to FM. I listen to WABC on-line around 4 hours a day (portions of Imus and Rush). I get my oldies music from WDAS-AM (again, on-line).

It is an interesting thought that AM and its audience is as different from FM as is TV and perhaps deserves a separate listing, as does satellite radio. But as long as we have powerhouses such as WABC, WCBS-AM/WINS, KYW, WGN/WBBM, there is not an urgent need to change the rating system.

 

[Shoot From Hip]

What they "share" is a single audience in the New York Arbitron listening area. That's what's being measured, and what you see them reporting a "share" of. The same people may cross from AM to FM...but they still comprise a single universe of listeners. That's also the reason some internet streams are now showing up in certain PPM reports...because those listeners, too, come from the same universe of the NY Arbitron listening area.

 

[badjef]

Maybe, I'm still missing the premise of the question.

But in the old days, when there was just an AM and an FM owned by the same company, it was common to add the 12 plus numbers and say that was your combo rating.

I suspect that is still being done on multi station buys. "If you sign a commitment, today, we'll throw in our AM News Talk along with the CHR and Country FM's"

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[davideduardo]

It seems to me this is a matter of, "That's the way we've always done it." Thoughts?

Ratings are produced by a ratings company and paid for by the radio industry to be given to advertisers who use the data to evaluate individual stations.

So the main purpose of ratings is to allow advertisers to have a metric. And the advertisers are the ones who call the shots. And they don't want to have to deal with AM separately from FM. The want to deal with "radio" as simply as possible.

In any case, what difference does it make if you have a share of AM listening or a share of radio listening? Agencies don't buy "share" but rating, and rating indicates the number of people in a market area who are listening to a station... AM or FM. No matter how you measure, AM alone, FM alone, or combined as "radio" the rating will not vary as it is a percentage of the universe.

Since the rating is the same no matter what bands you measure, and individual surveys would be cost prohibitive, and the existing system is what advertisers asked for... we won't be seeing changes unless it is to combine radio, TV and other media all together which would make the buyer's job easier.

 

[wadio]

... we won't be seeing changes unless it is to combine radio, TV and other media all together which would make the buyer's job easier.

I think that's what I was really trying to get at -- that today there's good reason to consider more than just the combined AM and FM bands, at least when it comes to audio content. I didn't know Internet radio is appearing in the Arbs of some markets like Philly, so I've learned something! That must mean specific PPM tones are embedded in the Internet streams?

 

[davideduardo]

! That must mean specific PPM tones are embedded in the Internet streams?

Internet streams of radio stations are separately encoded, as are HD2 and HD3 channels. Even full simulcasts have each component of the simulcast encoded. The "coding" for each is different.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

Are the 200 or so satellite channels also separatly encoded, David?

Only certain ones?

Or when the docked PPMs are cradled, does the data get sent as 'The Tyndall radio family was tuned to Sirius/XM for 3 hours and 52 minutes' ?

 

[davideduardo]

Are the 200 or so satellite channels also separatly encoded, David?

Only certain ones?

Or when the docked PPMs are cradled, does the data get sent as 'The Tyndall radio family was tuned to Sirius/XM for 3 hours and 52 minutes' ?

I don't know if the channels are encoded; Arbitron previously did ratings for XM years ago. In any case, they have never shown in a PPM book.

When the PPM is docked it continues active for a period of time, and unless there is motion, it "turns off" and is "wakened" early in the morning even if there is no motion.

A PPM family has one meter per person. While Arbitron suggests that the charger and dock be placed in the bedroom, there is no guarantee that this is always the case.