For David Eduardo: a rebuttal on Cleveland

[nate81]

The Cuyahoga's never been cleaner. Haven't seen any three-eyed "Simpsons" fish, either. Creation of the EPA, the Clean Air Act, etc. could be attributed to the fire incident. So maybe that's why people love to bring it up.

But why not make fun of the poor whipping boy (er, mayor) in early-70's Cleveland, Frank Perk? It was he who accidentaly ignited his hair while holding a welding tool. He who was humiliated when his wife told local TV that they went bowling instead of meeting with the president. Yeah, that would be really FUN! (Sarcasm intended)

Yes, Cleveland has serious problems. Most of them of their own making. Don't get me started on a pitiful mayoral primary with 16% of the total electorate bothering to show up this past Tuesday. God-awful.

But it was (pardon me for pulling a Rush here) eight dwarves, led by an incumbent who couldn't even pass as a second-grade teacher. Moreover, the victor - Frank Jackson - scares me as a man who could possibly out-"Kucinich," well... the worst mayor Cleveland's ever HAD: Dennis Kucinich. The Kuxiote (sorry !) Quixote-like elf who took Cleveland into default.

There's a reason why I'm mentioning these less-than-glorious stories. I LIVE HERE - and have my whole life. I shoveled 16-inches-of-snow-and-one-inch-of-ice with my parents last December. Not something to really write home about.

But for all it's warts, Cleveland's a pretty decent place. If I moved out (and never say never, my friends), I'd miss this area. University Circle is one of the best areas around, with the art museum, the history museum, the orchestra, Severance, Liberty Blvd/MLK Parkway, you name it. Not to mention, one of my siblings IS a CWRU student.

I will not channel local famed liberal orator Dick Feagler (nor do I wish to) when trying to relive Cleveland's halycon days. But's here's a small radio-related primer, seconded both by Johnny Morgan and Chuck "bigwoody" Matthews:

First, there was Allen Freed. 'Nuff said, okay?

Then, there was the anti-Freed: (no, not WQAL *PD* Allan Fee Bill Randle. Second only to Freed in impact, his career was off-and-on during his 50 years; but at his zenith, he broke both Tony Bennett and Elvis. The latter Bill hosted a concert at a Cleveland high school - long before Ed Sullivan. He took the Mormon Tabernacle Choir's "Glory Hymn of the Republic" and made it NUMBER ONE. Oh, and in the late 50's, Bill was on BOTH WERE in Cleveland (Sun-Fri) and on WCBS-AM (Saturdays)!

Then, there was not JUST WIXY, but other Top-40 legends in KYW/WKYC, WHK, and even WGAR. When WIXY faded in 1975, the FM band took over. Cleveland had WMMS, M105 and G98 leading the way - with WMMS as the steamroller.

WMMS started to fade in the late 80's, and sister station WHK relived it's Top-40 heritage in an oldies format. This was later lifted to WMJI, an otherwise SAC/oldies hybrid that already inherited WIXY's music library. With legends John Gorman and Denny Sanders leading the way, WMJI became THE oldies station to end ALL oldies stations. (Er, the "Number One and Oldie Station!")

WMMS soon went with the "Next Generation" of the Buzzard, with John Gorman again as PD. A shame Nationwide didn't let it last. But there was WENZ - aka "107.9 The End", a station that clearly won in the artistic catagory. So much so that WXTM/92.3 - aka "923X" - is slowly reincarnating "The End."

WMMS is back - with a local man in Bo Matthews as PD - and has evolved once again into its' position as a "must-listen" station. Shame that CC doesn't see WMJI in that same way. Majic 105.7 is a shell of it's former self, no thanks to Pig Vomit.

While Cleveland's fortunes aren't that good, the radio landscape isn't all lost.

There's locally-owned signals in WNWV/107.3 and WEOL/930 (the former is a de facto Cleveland station; the latter is totally focused in Elyria-Lorain), gospel stations WABQ/1540, WCCD/1000 and WJTB/1040 (all daytimers), and ideastream's WCPN/90.3 (set to move downtown into a state-of-the art facility).

Plus there's major-league college stations at CWRU, Baldwin-Wallace, John Carroll, Oberlin, University of Akron, and Cleveland State. And Kent's NPR affil, WKSU/89.7 which sometimes tops WCPN in programming and news.

Also, there's solid suburban signals in WEOL, the WOBL/WDLW combo in Oberlin, WBKC and WELW in Lake County, and the Glunt family of stations in Youngstown. If I want a better choice for talk (which is the case, no thanks to WTAM) I'd take WJR-Detroit, CKLW-Windsor, WHLO-Akron or even WEOL.

Finally, there's WCLV - Cleveland's fine arts and classical station. And will be in perpetuality, thanks to its' ownership, who placed the station in a trust led by the art institutions, the orchestra, et al. While WCLV had to move to a rimshot Lorain signal in the deal, it was a small price to pay to keep them alive.

I'm sure Detroit and Philadelphia would still want classical music, no?

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partnership Representative: LCCC Student Senate, Elyria, Ohio

Soon-to-be-webmaster - http://www.lcccradio.com</P>

 

[davideduardo]

>
> But for all it's warts, Cleveland's a pretty decent place.

It's getting better, granted. But the climate, and the rust belt economy don't help. In fact, if you look at three four cities of almost identical size in the metro, Cleveland, Sacramento, Denver and Cincy, Cleaveland has the lowest radio billings... $129 million a year for CLE, and $149, $205 and $139 million each for the others, in order. This is symptomatic of the economic depression of the region as much as of Cleveland, though.


> If I moved out (and never say never, my friends), I'd miss
> this area. University Circle is one of the best areas
> around, with the art museum, the history museum, the
> orchestra, Severance, Liberty Blvd/MLK Parkway, you name it.

That is a shining star, granted. I have to say I am jaded, as my father was a founder of both the Symphony and the Garden Center, and there are three generations of us on the art museum board. But that isn't a radio issue... as nice as it may be.

> Not to mention, one of my siblings IS a CWRU student.

Here I go again: my mother was on the board of WR for nearly two decades. As I said, I have a family full of civic pride and identity. However, I just see so many places that offer so much more. Plus, it is not a good radio market: annual growth, both historic or projected, is less than 3% a year.

> Then, there was the anti-Freed: (no, not WQAL *PD* Allan Fee
> Bill Randle. Second only to Freed in impact, his career
> was off-and-on during his 50 years; but at his zenith, he
> broke both Tony Bennett and Elvis.

Another anecdote... Bill lived 5 doors down the street from me in the early 60's. This was when WERE stopped down at 6 PM for the Holy Rosary!

> Then, there was not JUST WIXY, but other Top-40 legends in
> KYW/WKYC, WHK, and even WGAR. When WIXY faded in 1975, the
> FM band took over. Cleveland had WMMS, M105 and G98 leading
> the way - with WMMS as the steamroller.

WGAR, in the early 70's under Lund, was really the gold based, soft adult CHR that was the basis for today's AC formats. While WMMS was very famous and very good, I do not see it necessarily any more significant than, say, She in St. Louis to name one case.

 

[gr8oldies]

Difference was WGAR was very personality oriented.

 

[davideduardo]

> Difference was WGAR was very personality oriented.
>

Which I think transferred into the success of WMJI, also.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > Difference was WGAR was very personality oriented.
> >
>
> Which I think transferred into the success of WMJI, also.
>

Not quite so easy as that, since John Gorman (and the staff) were under alot of influences when making Majic.

WGAR was no doubt a factor--Lanigan was AM drive a the Big 1220, and was morning man at Majic for 6 years already when Gorman took over. Plus, WGAR 1220 had been scuttled within the decade, so memories were pretty fresh.

Everyone who was C-Town born and bred was a WIXY fanatic. Although you consider it "average," it was influential well into the 90s with Clevelanders. (Even today, WMJI still does the WIXY Lost Super Hit at 6.30pm--songs which aren't really "lost," but no matter.)

WHK "Solid Gold" in the mid-80s was WMJI before there was WMJI (so says Gorman). It was really a Malrite testing ground for oldies in Cleveland. Before that, the only source for it was WMJI's gold AC and Boom Goldberg's Sunday morning show on 'MMS.

I guess you could project the Buzzard as an influence on WMJI too--but that would really be Gorman channelling Gorman. He had J.R. Nelson do some pretty blue and in-your-face promos for WMJI, some more reminiscent of WMMS in the 70s or any rock station rather than white-bread oldies stations.

But I think Cleveland in the 70s and 80s was blessed with some very personality-oriented stations--WIXY, WGAR, WMMS, G-98, 92Q (WRQC), WBBG. In some respect ALL influenced WMJI at some level--remember, Gorman left town for just one year between 1973 and 1991 (when he took over Majic). In that time, he saw everything that was happening in Cleveland and in Cleveland radio. It gave him alot to work from and upon. Which was why Majic was so successful from the start. He KNEW Cleveland (despite being a Boston native).

 

[davideduardo]

>
> Everyone who was C-Town born and bred was a WIXY fanatic.
> Although you consider it "average," it was influential well
> into the 90s with Clevelanders. (Even today, WMJI still
> does the WIXY Lost Super Hit at 6.30pm--songs which aren't
> really "lost," but no matter.)

You may be interested in the extent of the WIXY influence. In the period from 1964 to 1970, I had a Top 40 station in Ecuador which played a mix of Spanish and English music. My source for the US music? The WiXY chart. My mother, every week, would visit a rack jobber in South Euclid and pick up the adds to the list, put them in an envelope with the WIXY chart, and air mail them to Ecuador, where many became adds there 3 or 4 days later.

I wish I had saved the charts. I would have had several hundred of them.

I visited WIXY a number of times, and my contaxts with NormBob resulted in my being offered a GM job with MetroHex in Miami about 15 years later!

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Surveys

> I wish I had saved the charts. I would have had several
> hundred of them.

Doesn't everybody wish the same thing. Back then, everyone thought of this free survey thing, "it's a piece of paper, ain't worth nothin once next week's survey comes out. Pitch it."

Now, we've come to the point where scarcity is resulting in (BLEEP) like me paying $10-15 for WHK and WIXY surveys when they pop up on eBay.

Next stop--I NEED a CKLW and a KHJ survey. eBay, here I come.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Surveys

>
> Next stop--I NEED a CKLW and a KHJ survey. eBay, here I
> come.
>

If you do not need the "original" surveys, try to get a copy of Ron Jacobs' KHJ book, full of surveys, internal memos and such. An amazing Top 40 nostalgia piece. I treasure mine.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: Surveys

> >
> > Next stop--I NEED a CKLW and a KHJ survey. eBay, here I
> > come.
> >
>
> If you do not need the "original" surveys, try to get a copy
> of Ron Jacobs' KHJ book, full of surveys, internal memos and
> such. An amazing Top 40 nostalgia piece. I treasure mine.
>

I tried. Emailed Ron Jacobs, and never heard back from him. Not even an acknowledgment of receipt of my email. I wonder if I may have sent it to the wrong email for book purposes. It was the one on the website at that time.

Who knows.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Surveys

>
> I tried. Emailed Ron Jacobs, and never heard back from him.
> Not even an acknowledgment of receipt of my email. I
> wonder if I may have sent it to the wrong email for book
> purposes. It was the one on the website at that time.

I sent you privately the e/mail I have used as recently as this week for Ron. I just got one of his KHJ 40th anniversary posters, and it arrived today.

I believe the book is done on one of those Print on Demand systems, so he should be able to get you one. It is, if I recall, pricey.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Nathan:

You forgot one other positive attribute about Cleveland.

Mike Douglas began his TV show there as a local program on the then-KYW-3 in 1961. Within two years it went into national syndication, and many top entertainers got their first national TV exposure on his show. While in Cleveland, many of the early Motown acts made their national-TV debut on the Douglas show because Cleveland was only about a five-and-a-half-hour drive from Detroit.

Douglas' show moved to Philadelphia in 1965, but it was not his choice. The FCC ordered Group W and NBC to undo a swap almost ten years earlier which gave Group W stations in Cleveland and NBC stations in Philadelphia. As a result, Group W once again had stations in Phildelphia (both the KYW calls and Mike Douglas' TV show went to the City Of Brotherly Love) and NBC once more had stations in Cleveland.

Were it now for the FCC ordering Group W and NBC to undo their 1956 swap involving Philly and Cleveland, "The Mike Douglas Show" may have remained in Cleveland for several more years. I consider him as much a broadcasting icon of Cleveland (despite his show's short stay there) as Alan Freed and Bill Randle.

 

[peppertree]

But if people are moving out, then there will be less traffic jams on the roads which will still be there.

Schools will not be crowded unless too many are closed.

Renting an apartment or buying a home will be cheaper.




> >
> > But for all it's warts, Cleveland's a pretty decent place.
>
>
> It's getting better, granted. But the climate, and the rust
> belt economy don't help. In fact, if you look at three four
> cities of almost identical size in the metro, Cleveland,
> Sacramento, Denver and Cincy, Cleaveland has the lowest
> radio billings... $129 million a year for CLE, and $149,
> $205 and $139 million each for the others, in order. This is
> symptomatic of the economic depression of the region as much
> as of Cleveland, though.
>
>
> > If I moved out (and never say never, my friends), I'd miss
>
> > this area. University Circle is one of the best areas
> > around, with the art museum, the history museum, the
> > orchestra, Severance, Liberty Blvd/MLK Parkway, you name
> it.
>
> That is a shining star, granted. I have to say I am jaded,
> as my father was a founder of both the Symphony and the
> Garden Center, and there are three generations of us on the
> art museum board. But that isn't a radio issue... as nice as
> it may be.
>
> > Not to mention, one of my siblings IS a CWRU student.
>
> Here I go again: my mother was on the board of WR for nearly
> two decades. As I said, I have a family full of civic pride
> and identity. However, I just see so many places that offer
> so much more. Plus, it is not a good radio market: annual
> growth, both historic or projected, is less than 3% a year.
>
>
> > Then, there was the anti-Freed: (no, not WQAL *PD* Allan
> Fee
> > Bill Randle. Second only to Freed in impact, his career
>
> > was off-and-on during his 50 years; but at his zenith, he
> > broke both Tony Bennett and Elvis.
>
> Another anecdote... Bill lived 5 doors down the street from
> me in the early 60's. This was when WERE stopped down at 6
> PM for the Holy Rosary!
>
> > Then, there was not JUST WIXY, but other Top-40 legends in
>
> > KYW/WKYC, WHK, and even WGAR. When WIXY faded in 1975, the
>
> > FM band took over. Cleveland had WMMS, M105 and G98
> leading
> > the way - with WMMS as the steamroller.
>
> WGAR, in the early 70's under Lund, was really the gold
> based, soft adult CHR that was the basis for today's AC
> formats. While WMMS was very famous and very good, I do not
> see it necessarily any more significant than, say, She in
> St. Louis to name one case.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[davideduardo]

> But if people are moving out, then there will be less
> traffic jams on the roads which will still be there.

With lower gas and car registration taxes, the roads will not be maintained.
>
> Schools will not be crowded unless too many are closed.

with lower tax bases, schools will have to be closed. Miami in the late 50's is a perfect example. the city was in technical bankruptcy because so many had moved out, the tax base had shrunk below costs of operating the city.
>
> Renting an apartment or buying a home will be cheaper.

No, because taxes would go up to make up for the slack.

 

[gr8oldies]

Then again, didn't CKLW beat WIXY most of the time? I had always heard that CKLW at times was #1 in Cleveland. I remember WGAR being more as a gold-based hot A/C. Seems that all the personalities did characther voices. Phil Gardner came from and eventually returned to Ft. Wayne.

 

[davideduardo]

> Then again, didn't CKLW beat WIXY most of the time?

No, it showed in the Cleveland book, but never came even remotely close to winning.

> I had
> always heard that CKLW at times was #1 in Cleveland.

I believe they did that ONCE at night (the WIXY night signal did not cover the market) but most of this is urban legend.

> I
> remember WGAR being more as a gold-based hot A/C. Seems that
> all the personalities did characther voices. Phil Gardner
> came from and eventually returned to Ft. Wayne.

WGAR was MOR, old line, through the 60's. When Lund and crew remade it into what was the basis of inspiration for FM ACsw in the future, it was a very CHR like station formatically, with more personality talk, and pretty hot rotations.

 

[pqgeorge]

I personally think very highly about Cleveland, OH. I've been there several times and have always left the city and the suburbs with a very positive experience. I'm hoping to visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame sometime in the near future. Every city in America has it's good points and bad points. But Cleveland has turned the tide. It's a GREAT city and should be regarded accordingly. And if some person (not naming names) feels otherwise, well.. that's HIS problem. Way to go, Cleveland!

73,

Peter Q. George (K1XRB)


> Nathan:
>
> You forgot one other positive attribute about Cleveland.
>
> Mike Douglas began his TV show there as a local program on
> the then-KYW-3 in 1961. Within two years it went into
> national syndication, and many top entertainers got their
> first national TV exposure on his show. While in Cleveland,
> many of the early Motown acts made their national-TV debut
> on the Douglas show because Cleveland was only about a
> five-and-a-half-hour drive from Detroit.
>
> Douglas' show moved to Philadelphia in 1965, but it was not
> his choice. The FCC ordered Group W and NBC to undo a swap
> almost ten years earlier which gave Group W stations in
> Cleveland and NBC stations in Philadelphia. As a result,
> Group W once again had stations in Phildelphia (both the KYW
> calls and Mike Douglas' TV show went to the City Of
> Brotherly Love) and NBC once more had stations in Cleveland.
>
>
> Were it now for the FCC ordering Group W and NBC to undo
> their 1956 swap involving Philly and Cleveland, "The Mike
> Douglas Show" may have remained in Cleveland for several
> more years. I consider him as much a broadcasting icon of
> Cleveland (despite his show's short stay there) as Alan
> Freed and Bill Randle.
> <P ID="signature">______________
Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
Whitman, Massachusetts</P>

 

[davideduardo]

> I personally think very highly about Cleveland, OH. I've
> been there several times and have always left the city and
> the suburbs with a very positive experience. I'm hoping to
> visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame sometime in the near
> future. Every city in America has it's good points and bad
> points. But Cleveland has turned the tide. It's a GREAT
> city and should be regarded accordingly. And if some person
> (not naming names) feels otherwise, well.. that's HIS
> problem. Way to go, Cleveland!

If you want to see how a Great Lakes city could be, visit Toronto. Probably the most cosmopolitan city in North America, it is friendly, diverse, and prosperous.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> If you want to see how a Great Lakes city could be, visit
> Toronto. Probably the most cosmopolitan city in North
> America, it is friendly, diverse, and prosperous.
>

If you ignore the crime.

And the Canadians.

Blame Canada.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> > Then again, didn't CKLW beat WIXY most of the time?
>
> No, it showed in the Cleveland book, but never came even
> remotely close to winning.
>
> > I had
> > always heard that CKLW at times was #1 in Cleveland.
>
> I believe they did that ONCE at night (the WIXY night signal
> did not cover the market) but most of this is urban legend.

Strangely enough, WIXY itself may have been part of the reason for the legend. They had a penchant for bringing old CK guys over to 1260: Larry "Duke Windsor" Morrow in 1966; Steve Hunter and Chuck (Chip) Hobart in a two-fer deal in 1971. They were sold on bringing them by the fact that these guys theoretically beat WIXY.

Now, I have no doubt that at some point in late 1964-65 that CKLW may have beaten WHK. WHK was heading into its sort of dark period around the time. Johnny Holliday was gone to WINS. They sponsored the Beatles in Sept 64, then got run over on the story by KYW (who had two guys--ND Art Schreiber and DJ Jim Stagg--in the Fab Four's travel entourage). The group of "Good Guys" (the name didn't come until 1964, despite what people think--and was stolen from WMCA) that came afterward were good DJs (Al James, Bob Friend, Joe Mayer, &c.) but WHK's stay was running short. The PAMS and Sande-Green jingles were dated by 64; the "W(clap)HK" jingles sounded like afterthoughts. Plus, KYW was being programmed excellently by Ken Draper, and would gain prominence in 64-65.

But WIXY really was king by the time 1966 rolled around. It solidified its lead in 1967, and even WKYC Radio 11 was on rented time.

And, interestingly, the time that CK supposedly won in Cleveland was BEFORE the Drake years. Once the Drake format hit Windsor, WIXY was king and didn't let up until 1972 or so. During that time, CKLW was always in the books, and rated high, but couldn't knock off WIXY.


> > I
> > remember WGAR being more as a gold-based hot A/C. Seems
> that
> > all the personalities did characther voices. Phil Gardner
> > came from and eventually returned to Ft. Wayne.
>
> WGAR was MOR, old line, through the 60's. When Lund and crew
> remade it into what was the basis of inspiration for FM ACsw
> in the future, it was a very CHR like station formatically,
> with more personality talk, and pretty hot rotations.

Don Imus, John Lanigan, Real Bob James, Phil Gardner, Fig Newton, Chuck Collier, Joe Mayer (yes, the same one). That was personality! And more Blue Oyster Cult, Olivia, and AWB than you can imagine.

 

[davideduardo]

> > If you want to see how a Great Lakes city could be, visit
> > Toronto. Probably the most cosmopolitan city in North
> > America, it is friendly, diverse, and prosperous.
> >
>
> If you ignore the crime.
>
> And the Canadians.
>
> Blame Canada.
>

Eh?