For Discussion - Niche Formats

[BlaineMcDaniel]

So here's a scenario:

With the onslaught of alternative media (IPOD, Internet, Sattelite, etc.) radio groups are being forced to cut costs and maximize their assets. Do you think that eventually "Niche-type" formats will slide into oblivion on terrestrial radio and be relegated to being sought out by the smaller audiences that desire them on one's own IPOD, internet stream...etc?

Do you think that eventually only the most lucerative, mainstream and mass-appeal formats will remain to exist on FM? You know: AC, Top 40, Country, News-Talk, Rock, etc.

Most expressly, I am looking at the popularity of Niche Formats like smooth jazz, Business talk, Christian, and other formats that have smaller audiences to pull from.

Discuss!

 

[ElCheapo]

With the advent of HD Radio, niche formats will become more prevalent.

The plan of the HD Radio Alliance is to offer a satellite radio-like variety of channels for free on terrestrial radio. They're attempting to promote innovation and listener choice by agreeing to not duplicate formats on the HD2 channels.

How well those agreements will hold up when one station's HD2 channel is wildly popular and some of the others have no listeners we'll just have to wait and see.

I personally believe radio will thrive in coming years. When HD really catches on, terrestrial broadcasters will have the option of turning their analog signal off completely and using all of their bandwidth for HD. That means there could eventually be 8 streams of programming for every FM channel. When that happens, a market like Tulsa could have up to 240 streams of free terrestrial radio.

Much like cable TV, niche formats will abound - but many of them will be programmed nationally.

 

[GaryTheThompson]

Good thoughts.

So what will this do to the local DJ?

Will local jobs be in the same supply as they are now?

Or will local jobs be fewer and farther between?

 

[kxojdj]

Will lower power stations like KXOJ have a better signal on HD?

Our base signal is 5,000 watts. What will our HD power be?

Will it level the playing field for the marginal signals?

 

[ElCheapo]

Good thoughts.

So what will this do to the local DJ?

Will local jobs be in the same supply as they are now?

Or will local jobs be fewer and farther between?

Not sure. My best guess is that companies will program many of these nationally with little to no local interaction. Clear Channel is already doing this in some markets with their "Format Lab" initiative. http://www.clearchannel.com/Radio/PressRelease.aspx?PressReleaseID=1618

Personally, I think there will always be room for local talent. The attention HD is about to bring back to terrestrial radio may even cause a resurgence in live, local radio.

It's really too early to say one way or the other - but over the next 10 years, HD is going to radically change the landscape of radio. The one thing I'm fairly sure of is many of these channels will be fed nationally. Whether that negatively or positively impacts the live, local talent on the legacy channels is anyone's guess.

But with so many new format options available, it may also open up opportunities on the national level for otherwise local talent. I can see a future where companies like Clear Channel open a facility like the XM facility in Washington and sends out 100 different channels of programming for use on HD2 channels. I personally know a few people who either work for or worked for XM, so anything's possible.

 

[ElCheapo]

Will lower power stations like KXOJ have a better signal on HD?

Our base signal is 5,000 watts. What will our HD power be?

Will it level the playing field for the marginal signals?

It won't level the playing field, but it could help. The jury is still out on that one, but supposedly HD helps with problems like multipath.

 

[crazyokie]

So here's a scenario:

With the onslaught of alternative media (IPOD, Internet, Sattelite, etc.) radio groups are being forced to cut costs and maximize their assets. Do you think that eventually "Niche-type" formats will slide into oblivion on terrestrial radio and be relegated to being sought out by the smaller audiences that desire them on one's own IPOD, internet stream...etc?

Do you think that eventually only the most lucerative, mainstream and mass-appeal formats will remain to exist on FM? You know: AC, Top 40, Country, News-Talk, Rock, etc.

It's already happening right before our eyes.

Most expressly, I am looking at the popularity of Niche Formats like smooth jazz, Business talk, Christian, and other formats that have smaller audiences to pull from.

Discuss!

 

[Media Mogul]

I think information based programming will continue to thrive. However, if they open up the multicasting where each frequency has that many bands, it will be good for the listener but horrible for the advertiser. The market will be saturated to the point where noone is making any serious money at the local level outside of those who have exclusive sports contracts and talk shows. It scares me to death...

240 stations all targeting Tulsa??? Imagine trying to sell your format against everyone elses!

 

[GaryTheThompson]

Imagine an environment where a 1 share is equivalent to today's 10 share.

We saw something similar when comparing Tulsa radio in the 60's to today's marketplace. In the 60's it wasn't uncommon for KAKC to pull 12 plus 50 shares in certain dayparts.

The "small" guys were the ones with the 10 shares in those days.

Wow.

 

[JetBlack1015]

240 stations all targeting Tulsa??? Imagine trying to sell your format against everyone elses!

HD Radio was not invested in as a sales vehicle, it was invested in as a listener innovation. The intention is not to sell the separate formats, but to give the audience more selection. Eventually we will see advertising on the medium, but in a much much smaller capacity. It would be more likely to assume that, for example, one advertiser would "own" the station for a premium price rather than 20 different advertisers vying for airtime. Does that make sense?

Besides, you won't see as much multi-casting as you think. Each sideband is 1/2 of the power of the sideband before. EX: 92.1-1 = 50kW 92.1-2 = 25kW 92.1-3 = 12.5kW(when it actually comes around) and if I remember correctly, most stations in the HD alliance are only going to do 3 sidebands initially and I don't know of any plans to go above and beyond that.

 

[JournalGuy]

JetB...any feedback on your digital channels?
Does anybody have the ability to listen yet?
I think CC is the only digital broadcaster in Tulsa right now.
I wonder what stations are next up for digital coversion in the market?

Also want to know if HD supports standard RDS. Thanks!

 

[Radio55]

Noted Gary's reference to KAKC in the 60s. True 50 Share radio in Tulsa. AM was king in those days and the stations were absolutely GREAT. You knew the personalities by name (all of them), they had great jingles and energy, you really felt like the station belonged to you. KELI was the other power house station with the "satellite studios on the fairgrounds" - just the coolest thing to see. I think if Tulsa radio would bring back the power of a great jingle package, dump the dumb "imaging" ("the best variety of the 60's 70s and 80s" -how dull - you call that Branding?) and liner card radio and get back to basics, I think programmers and operators would be surprised.

Hey, have you heard KONO in San Antonio (?) They're jingles are the most exciting I've heard since the great KAY-A-KAY-CEEE! and DOUBLE-U-ELLLL-ESSSSS. Now THAT is BRANDING!

Sorry guys, I'm just a nerd for great jingles. They are "songs" for your station.

I think there is going to be a big about face in radio. Just a gut feeling. I think the FCC is going to step in some day and say "boys, you've gotta have PEOPLE in those buildings at all times!" And the days of obnoxious personalities in talk and music radio are going to dry up. People are missing something in their radio experience. Instead of blaming satellite radio and ipods for their problems, broadcasters need to look at their PRODUCT and find out whats wrong with it. Hey if customers aren't coming to your store, you better take a look at what your selling (or not selling). It's Radio 101 stuff.

Would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Radio55]

Just noticed my horrible grammer! THEIR jingles....(re KONO)

 

[stan]

If Clear Channel was smart, they would have brought back the KAKC calls on 106.1 along with the jingles. And the personalities.

But CC has a history in other cities of blowing up heritage stations.

 

[GaryTheThompson]

You mean bring back the KAKC personalities?

Or do you mean bring back "Personalities in general?"

Where are the KAKC personalities now?

I know Lee Bailey consutled for Drake-Chenault for a number of years an was HUGELY successful doing that. Last I heard (Late 90's) he was still consulting.

Beau Weaver is now "that guy you hear on TV" doing voice-overs. Big time success in LA.

Scooter Seagraves just retired from radio last year from KXKC in Baton Rouge. He was a top-rated afternoon guy on that country station. I think he was also the production director for a time.

Dick Schmitts is still loud and proud and in Tulsa. He run's a local radio and tv ad agency. You've heard his voice on every media outlet in town. I think it's called "Irving Productions."

Steve Suttle lives in New Mexico somewhere, if I remember correctly. I think he's a lawyer. Last I heard, he still does some part-time radio just for fun.

I know there are others that I'm missing...who else?

 

[Radio55]

Jim Peters, Tom Gordon, Robert W. Walker. KRMG's Don Bishop was a KAKC jock. All of the guys on KELI had the same last name... Kelly. Always thought KELI was a great set of call letters. The letters were also a "name"... "On KELIradio!" Great stuff. Man, you talk about great radio. Nothing can touch it to this day in Tulsa. There were stations like KAKC/KELi all across America. I think a station in California now has the KELI letters. It's a shame that stations today have no respect for the heritage of their call letters. Now, it's Bob this and Jack that and next week it will be Movin' and the week after that maybe it will be Harold or something as silly. At least KAKC lives, sort of, on AM 1300 in Tulsa. Oh, if I could just get my hands on that station......

 

[JetBlack1015]

JetB...any feedback on your digital channels?
Does anybody have the ability to listen yet?
I think CC is the only digital broadcaster in Tulsa right now.
I wonder what stations are next up for digital coversion in the market?

Also want to know if HD supports standard RDS. Thanks!

Not alot, we do seem to have a loyal following with the HD-2 online streams for KMOD and KOOL, in fact for those of you with a hunger for 50s music you can hear it on KOOL's HD-2 Channel "KOOL KROME" and you can stream it online at www.kooltulsa.com

Anyone with an HD reciever capable of recieving multi-cast channels can listen to their hearts content, there's only 1 car reciever that you can buy with that technology (JVC KD-HDR1) but there are several in-home entertainment systems you can purchase, in fact the demand has gone up enough that the prices are falling rather quickly on them, from Boston Acoustics and Polk audio. And as far as I know Radio Disney and TU's Classical Non-Comm are also in HD, although I don't think they are multi-casting. As for who is up next, I dunno? I've heard that you guys over at Journal are probably gonna be the ones to pull the trigger first followed shortly by Shamrock and Renda, I haven't heard any plans for Cox to move themselves into the medium, but I'm sure it's not too far off. It will be interesting once a majority of the commercial FMs get into the game, we were early because CC corporate engineering is HQd in our building which made us lucky, but imagine all the commercial FMs up to times 3, that's how much multi-casting that will be done, it will be fun to listen....

Oh and as far as standard RDS, HD has a data stream that acts as RDS technology with more features and right now, if you don't have an HD reciever you're getting the analog signal still which still includes RDS.

 

[JetBlack1015]

I think there is going to be a big about face in radio. Just a gut feeling. I think the FCC is going to step in some day and say "boys, you've gotta have PEOPLE in those buildings at all times!" And the days of obnoxious personalities in talk and music radio are going to dry up. People are missing something in their radio experience. Instead of blaming satellite radio and ipods for their problems, broadcasters need to look at their PRODUCT and find out whats wrong with it. Hey if customers aren't coming to your store, you better take a look at what your selling (or not selling). It's Radio 101 stuff.

I was so wrapped up in responding to the question about HD that I didn't get a chance to answer this..

I think that the FCC understands the demands of corporate America, while I believe you could potentially see fewer budget cuts eliminating overnight positions, I wouldn't expect clusters to have someone on every station all night, more like 1 person in the building to babysit. There are a few guys out there that are running a big risk of getting a HUGE facilities fine for proper manpower during the overnights, does anyone remember what happened to CC a few years back in Lincoln, NE or was it Fargo? Either way, I believe that particular GM got in alot of hot water because of a state of emergency being issued, the EAS not going off (it was bypassed) and no one being in the building to relay information (as is laid out in the license.)

As far as listeners "missing" something in their radio experience, I disagree with that. Personality is what has driven radio, getting rid of "loud and obnoxious" jocks isn't the answer, it's spending more money to be top of mind that will turn the ship around. Listeners have short attention spans, if you don't remind them that you are there, they won't REMEMEBR to punch you in. While I agree that there is alot of stale radio out there, and in here (Tulsa) for that matter, I expect it to get better. And more personalities to shine! I don't think radio BLAMES sattelite or IPods for their problems, we just waited to long to innovate and re-create, now we play catch-up. We will and we'll win.

 

[ElCheapo]

Besides, you won't see as much multi-casting as you think. Each sideband is 1/2 of the power of the sideband before. EX: 92.1-1 = 50kW 92.1-2 = 25kW 92.1-3 = 12.5kW(when it actually comes around) and if I remember correctly, most stations in the HD alliance are only going to do 3 sidebands initially and I don't know of any plans to go above and beyond that.

FM HD is transmitted at a lower power level - 20 dB lower than the main carrier - but the number of HD channels has nothing to do with power levels.

You might have confused power for the available data stream for HD programming. In standard hybrid mode, there's 96kbps available. It's typically divided either 64/32 or 48/48 though it could be split 32/32/32. Obviously, the lower the bitrate, the lower the audio quality - but the RF power for each stream would be the same.

I was in Dallas earlier this week configuring the automation for our HD2 channels there. They're split 48/48 and they sound pretty good.

 

[JetBlack1015]

Ok well noted. I am not an engineer, and have no desire to be one. I was never good at math.

Although, my assesment was based upon what my engineer told me when we went HD and the question was raised about how many sidebands is the spectrum capable of, that was his answer.

Either way, however, you are sacrificng one for another.

How are you anyway "Cheapo"?