For those expecting the old KVIL to return

[AliceTheCook]

In case you didn't read Philpot's article last week, here's what the moronic, all-knowing and clueless new PD Nikki (Good)Nite had to say:

"The music changes on the station are pretty subtle," says Nikki Nite, the station's program director. "The call letters, KVIL, stand for a lot of things, a lot of really wonderful things that were part of a great history on that radio station. But some of the things that KVIL stands for are not relevant to today."

What a pompous, arrogant thing to say. So what are "some of those things" she mentions are "not relevant"? Ratings? Dedicated, die-hard listenership? Fun and effective contests? Buzz and energy? A reasonably-accommodating playlist? Intelligent, quality, familiar jocks with something of true value and/or humor to say? Billing? Station value? (Yeah, Infinity, try to get your $82 mil investment back out of it NOW--oh, and adjust that 1993 figure to constant dollars while you're at it.) Sounds like Nikki is on a quest to re-make the old B-97.9: a cut-rate spoof of the old KVIL. But don't listen to us; what would local listeners know about what they expect from their local radio station?

Methinks of several situations where the new, incoming owner or PD THOUGHT he/she knew the market and the listeners, but ended up having no clue whatsoever: The obvious, Lite 97.9, which spent all its energy and time explaining and promoting every little nuance in its format that listeners were bored to tears between songs. The post-Belo Zoo, first sacrificing its heritage format for a pseudo-classic rock one, then dumping everything for boring, predictable soft rock (the pre-Lite format known as "Warm 97.9.") CD107.5, a forgettable stab at classic rock that ended up being PD Doug Gondek's personal jukebox, killing off ratings-stable KMEZ in the process. KEGL, when Nationwide Insurance dumped Howard Stern just to rid the market of him, then turned around and sold the station. KRBV, killing off 100.3 JAMZ and starting a downward spiral that it never recovered from. There's many more.

And even some that, somehow, are still on the air today after major overhauls, and just tread water until the next brilliant programming idea comes along: The Bone, KSKY and KRLD come to mind at first glance.

Nikki, consider LEASING instead of BUYING, be it a house or car. Ask Smokey and all the others behind him if you choose not to believe. Maybe you can hitch a ride with Gene-n-Julie to their next gig when the staff gets let go in a couple of books.

 

[bayoubob]

Beautifully said. You could say the same thing about the efforts of companies and so-called "PDs" to remake stations in all major markets and many medium and small markets!

By the way, is your screen name from The Brady Bunch?

> Methinks of several situations where the new, incoming owner
> or PD THOUGHT he/she knew the market and the listeners, but
> ended up having no clue whatsoever: The obvious, Lite 97.9,
> which spent all its energy and time explaining and promoting
> every little nuance in its format that listeners were bored
> to tears between songs. The post-Belo Zoo, first
> sacrificing its heritage format for a pseudo-classic rock
> one, then dumping everything for boring, predictable soft
> rock (the pre-Lite format known as "Warm 97.9.") CD107.5, a

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

> Beautifully said. You could say the same thing about the
> efforts of companies and so-called "PDs" to remake stations
> in all major markets and many medium and small markets!
>
> By the way, is your screen name from The Brady Bunch?
>
Or it is a take of on "Allistair Cook"

I always felt over 25 years ago that KLIF should have gone over to the FM side with its music format of oldies and be a success like WCBS-FM was before its recent debacle. It worked in San Antonio with KONO, and today they are number 2.
Running away from a station's heritage and legacy and the need to "Be hip" with today is ridiculous. Nikki supposedly is a talented PD from what I hear,but as I also outlined before if she kneels to the VP of PD's in New York, KVIL will only get worse and never ever be a player again. To have her dismiss KVIL's history without so much as having live here,and listened to the station during its two decades of being a power is a definition of ignorance to the max. Gene and Hulie have been here long enough and they have not been successful. To retain them is not the idea of the local management but someone in New York obviously. A chief reason Smokey left. We can moan about KVIL and what it has become and mourn,but it doesn't matter. Common sense,resposibility to the area of license,and caring about its station as well as the listening public is no longer in the minds of corporate ownership,especially CBS and Clear Channel. The statement that "Radio is a business" by others only under scores the ignorance about radio itself. When radio first started it served ships at sea,it was used for local police and fire dispatch. It was and remains (thank God) a LICENSE TO SERVE THE PUBLIC. NOT one company who owns any station also owns that given frequency. THE PUBLIC OWNS IT. RADIO IS A SERVICE!Any consultant who states otherwise speaks for their personal wallet not the public interest and could careless about the citizenry.If they make money at the public's expense,so be it.The resident consultant I am sure will come in and refute all of this.That is his nature and further demonstrate that he is not a broadcaster and has no regards to ever be one. Meanwhile Radio is losing listeners,and ads are down all because corporate owners have turned their back on the public.

 

[radiocommander]

I hope that new PD girl rented and didn't buy her new residence...
To give up the heritage calls and not play off of them loses so many possibilities of spring-boarding that station back into being a player. Sems to me there are too many chiefs and not enough indians in the decision making proces within that company and cluster. The classic case of cluster mismanagement of throwing all of their eggs into the Jack startup was the oversight that started this corrosion for KVIL and KLUV in the first place. They actuall torched their own other stations with no pre-planning what so ever. KVIL may never recover. Regardless, it will take YEARS to recover it if at all...

> > Beautifully said. You could say the same thing about the
> > efforts of companies and so-called "PDs" to remake
> stations
> > in all major markets and many medium and small markets!
> >
> > By the way, is your screen name from The Brady Bunch?
> >
> Or it is a take of on "Allistair Cook"
>
> I always felt over 25 years ago that KLIF should have gone
> over to the FM side with its music format of oldies and be a
> success like WCBS-FM was before its recent debacle. It
> worked in San Antonio with KONO, and today they are number
> 2.
> Running away from a station's heritage and legacy and the
> need to "Be hip" with today is ridiculous. Nikki supposedly
> is a talented PD from what I hear,but as I also outlined
> before if she kneels to the VP of PD's in New York, KVIL
> will only get worse and never ever be a player again. To
> have her dismiss KVIL's history without so much as having
> live here,and listened to the station during its two decades
> of being a power is a definition of ignorance to the max.
> Gene and Hulie have been here long enough and they have not
> been successful. To retain them is not the idea of the local
> management but someone in New York obviously. A chief reason
> Smokey left. We can moan about KVIL and what it has become
> and mourn,but it doesn't matter. Common sense,resposibility
> to the area of license,and caring about its station as well
> as the listening public is no longer in the minds of
> corporate ownership,especially CBS and Clear Channel. The
> statement that "Radio is a business" by others only under
> scores the ignorance about radio itself. When radio first
> started it served ships at sea,it was used for local police
> and fire dispatch. It was and remains (thank God) a LICENSE
> TO SERVE THE PUBLIC. NOT one company who owns any station
> also owns that given frequency. THE PUBLIC OWNS IT. RADIO IS
> A SERVICE!Any consultant who states otherwise speaks for
> their personal wallet not the public interest and could
> careless about the citizenry.If they make money at the
> public's expense,so be it.The resident consultant I am sure
> will come in and refute all of this.That is his nature and
> further demonstrate that he is not a broadcaster and has no
> regards to ever be one. Meanwhile Radio is losing
> listeners,and ads are down all because corporate owners
> have turned their back on the public.
>

 

[davideduardo]

Re: For those expecting reregulation...

Toss bait and you get a nibble...

> The
> statement that "Radio is a business" by others only under
> scores the ignorance about radio itself. When radio first
> started it served ships at sea,it was used for local police
> and fire dispatch.

Initially, radio was thought to be an answer only for telephony and telegraphy, thus the first practical applications were in the field of point to point communications.

Broadcasting, where one signal was intended to be indiscriminately sent to many, evolved almost serendipitously as it became possible to just talk to an open mike (which required that there be plenty of receivers out there) or, later, to send gramophone records, plays, speeches, etc.

Radio developed beyond the experimentation phase mostly because companies selling point to point saw a market, and realized if they made appealing "broad"-casts they could sell every American home a radio. Remember, Sarnoff was a point to point operator at one time!

So, radio was transformed by commercial interests. Most of the first broadcasters, at least those that survived more than a brief period, had one of two agendas. First, to sell radios, like Westinghouse. Second, to brand products, like National Life and Casualty Insurance.

The government only intervened when frequency congestion and interference became too extreme. Initially, programming was not regulated, and the idea of community service had not occured to anyone. In fact, this whole concept came out of the aftermath of the Depression and the social issues and "the government can make life better" attitudes of the time.

Following W.W. II there were groups who petitioned the FCC to have programs that were base and meaningless like the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet taken off the radio as they discouraged children from studying and "applying themselves." The FCC actually listened to this stuff, too... and I have the later 40's Broadcasting Magazines where this silliness is reported.

> It was and remains (thank God) a LICENSE
> TO SERVE THE PUBLIC. NOT one company who owns any station
> also owns that given frequency. THE PUBLIC OWNS IT. RADIO IS
> A SERVICE!

Whatever the wording of regulation, asctual enforcement shows that the government knows that the market will take care of balancing the needs of the public without forcing things that are not needed on people.

"Need" is a pretty hard word to define. As is "serve."

If I am an office worker, serving me may be a nice mix of soft AC with minimal interruptions, no flaky jocks, and no news and similar talk elements. And when I get in the car, I may want the same thing, but with traffic reports to get home.

If I am interested in news, I know where to go in each market. But I am not forced to listen when I do not want to. To me, that is a greater service than having every station doing things many listeners do not want at any or even at all times.

> Any consultant who states otherwise speaks for
> their personal wallet not the public interest and could
> careless about the citizenry.

In every market, there is an opportunity within certain demos and formats to be extremely "serving." I can cite numerous ones of stations I have programmed, but it may be better to cite an outside and well known example: the Buck Owens country station in Bakersfield. This is a smaller market, with lots of stations. This one has taken the news and community info position under News Director Mark Howell and service of all kind is a very big part of the station. Not because it was forced on the, but because they sensed it would enhance their programming and make the station a better, and thus, more salable one.

> If they make money at the
> public's expense,so be it.The resident consultant I am sure
> will come in and refute all of this.

Absolutely. You have distorted the origins of broadcasting, the origins of regulation and ignore market forces as the supreme regulator. It would be remiss not to answer, as your data is incorrect.

> That is his nature and
> further demonstrate that he is not a broadcaster and has no
> regards to ever be one.

I find this amusing. Here, I will cite a personal anecdote of a sad and dire nature. In 1970, following the military takeover of the democratic government of Ecuador, I allied my talk and news and sports station in the capital with a newspaper to becme the voice of the opposition, demanding a return to democracy via a call for elections in as brief a period as needed. The result was that the managing editor of the paper, El Tiempo, was killed and I was kicked out of the country at gunpoint, losing 12 operating stations and another dozen CPs I held.

I do not think you can give me any lessons in community service or responsibility as a broadcaster. I have paid the dues.

> Meanwhile Radio is losing
> listeners,and ads are down all because corporate owners
> have turned their back on the public.

Funny, but radio revenue was UP last year, and for the first time hit 8% of total national ad expenditures. Yeah, it was not up by anything but a number close to the rate of inflation, but newspaper was off by double digits, as was network TV. And satellite continued to lose money, and technolgy continues to evolve. In the last reported quarter, Sirius lost $2 million a day, and XM a measley $1.33 million every 24 hours.

Entertainment's killer app was introduced last week, yet nobody here has posted about it. Whining seems more fun than looking at the real future.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

Re: For those expecting reregulation and laugh at overblown and arrogant consultants.

Sorry David.We disagree. Just because we disagree doesn't make my information incorrect by your mere sayso. I am not INCORRECT by any means..period. In your narrow scope of things you only see the corner of the frame of a portrait. That is common with you when you seek to distort another's information, justifying radios fall. You don't care as long as your wallet bulges while many have lost their jobs. Your gluttony is apparent. Carl Ichan who has brought down many businesses and ruined people's lives just so he could increase his bank account would be so proud of you.I am sure you will accept that as a compliment. Your soul purpose in coming to this board is not to share but to bring that same bitter mentality that you don't have enough to control.You seek to control information especially if it runs contrary to your own. You didn't grow up in DFW so you don't have the passion for the market or the care for its people but you want to influence and control it all the same so your check book swells. My career has flourished by not allowing you and others like you exerting control over it with your luke warm ideas and your cruelty to others. You lead a dark life that gets simple pleasure stirring things up, and take glee when your name or anything REMOTELY related to you is mentioned. Your email alerts make you scramble because you checked off the little box alert. How dare someone respond to you,blasphemy in your corner world. Maybe that is the only attention you will ever or have ever received.Any attention done in person is most likely artificial and done in fear of someone losing their job,plus feeling they could no longer feed the family if you simply dismissed them. You sleep well no need to ask about that,but your heart beats differently than many who love this industry. Calling you a vulture would be an insult to vultures. You are in a class by yourself, and that is what you are all about "BY YOURSELF".You strike at others as a result.It's all you can do in your self absorbed prison. Strike all you want,and you will,but you will never hit the target. Your consistent failure will take its toll,its only a matter of time.Many will smile and describe it as justified.Listen..your email alert is sounding To arms!!

 

[davideduardo]

Re: How droll.

> Sorry David.We disagree. Just because we disagree doesn't
> make my information incorrect by your mere sayso.

Your information on the start of broadcasting and on the regulatory backgroud that evolved into the service requirements imposed on licencees was incorrect or poorly stated at best.

> I am not
> INCORRECT by any means..period. In your narrow scope of
> things you only see only the corner of the frame of a
> portrait. That is common with you when you seek to distort
> another's information justifying radios fall.

Radio has not fallen. Let's start there. It _is_ in a slower growth mode, but it is also over 80 years old, in full maturation, and this can be expected. But as long as revenues are up and listenership qualifies it as a mass medium, there is no "fall."

Either you can not tell the difference between hyperbole and fact, or you are just plain negative. May I have the envelope, please?

> You don't
> care as long as your wallet bulges while many have lost
> their jobs.

Technology has caused more job changes than consolidation. In fact, radio employment is up... just not in on air positons.

This is similar to the bitching about GM letting go of 30,000 employees last year. Per the Department of Labor, 30,000 new jobs are created _weekly_ in the USA. Some old jobs disappear. I just looked for chimney sweeps, buggy whip makers and shaving cream cakes in the Yellow Pages and found none of them. Do you suppose that some of this is evolutionary?

> Your gluttony is apparent. Carl Ichan who has
> brought down many businesses and ruined people's lives just
> so he could increase his bank account would be so proud of
> you.I am sure you will accept that as a compliment.

Icahn is a raider. He is not an operator or even an officer of companies he raids. He targets companies whose assets are worth more than market value, and buys enough stock to get on the board, get assets sold off, and profit. I am not a radio investor any more... I am an employee of a radio company and am in it, as always, for the long term.

> Your
> soul purpose in coming to this board is not to share but to
> bring that same bitter mentality that you don't have enough
> to control.You seek to control information especially if it
> runs contrary to your own.

I seek, in this thread, to correct misinformation, princiaplly from you, that goes back to the time of Marconi.

> You didn't grow up in DFW

40% of Americans live sowmewhere else than where they were born. I moved a half dozen times before I was 25, so I am used to developing a passion for wherever I may be. HAving grown up in a place is no guarantee for being able to do go9od radio there.

> so you
> don't have the passion for the market or the care for its
> people but you want to influence and control it all the same
> so your check book swells.

I have worked for a Dallas company and Dallas stations for 12 years. My first Dallas job was for Swanco in 1979. I probably have more Dallas experience than a significant percentage of those working in the market today. Of course, this is neither here nor their as your original point was about "serving communities" and all I did was point out that to some poeple playing soft hits _was_ a service.

> My career has flourished by not
> allowing you and others like you exerting control over it
> with your luke warm ideas and your cruelty to others. You
> lead a dark life that gets simple pleasure stirring things
> up, and take glee when your name or anything REMOTELY
> related to you is mentioned.

You are glorifying a city board read by, at most, a few hundred people. I enjoy the exchanges, usually, and learn a lot researching the things that make me thing where I am uncertain. The problem, almost unique to this board, is that there are some disgruntled Luddites who do not realize _everything_ in America and the world is changing faster than at any time in history. And several use inaccurate interpretations of the past of wrong facts to make points (I´m reminded of an acrimonious thread a year ago where several folks swore that XEG had been in Cd. Acuña when it never was anywhere but Monterrey... typical of this obstructionist, inaccurate thinking.)

This is still a fun board. Nobody will live or die over it, though. For me, it kills time in airports and hotels. And some of the posts make me check facts and I learn form that.

> Your email alerts make you
> scramble because you checked off the little box alert.

Perhaps, if any of the moderators cares, they can verify that I do not get e mail alerts. Never have. So much for yet another of your assumptions. You are about oh for seven today.

> How
> dare someone respond to you,blasphemy in your corner world.
> Perhaps that maybe the only attention you will ever or have
> ever received.Any attention done in person is most likely
> artificial and done in fear of someone losing their job,plus
> feeling they could no longer feed the family if you simply
> dismissed them.

I don´t know how to respond to this, as it is so convoluted as to be uninteligible. Are you heated up? Breathe deeply, and go for a walk. Ponder the deep wisdom of "writing is easier to read if broken into paragraphs" while you are out. Chill.

> You sleep well no need to ask about
> that,but your heart beats differently than many who love
> this industry. Calling you a vulture would be an insult to
> vultures.

Have you been drinking? This is going downhill. Do you always react this way to being corrected when you mis-state facts? At least Marconi is dead, so he won't care that you did not get what he was trying to do.

> You are in a class by yourself, and that is what
> you are all about "BY YOURSELF".You strike at others as a
> result.It's all you can do in your self absorbed prison.
> Strike all you want,and you will,but you will never hit the
> target. Your consistent failure will take its toll,its only
> a matter of time.Many will smile and describe it as
> justified.Listen..your email alert is sounding To arms!!

In a newsgroup, this would qualify you for the "Troll Alert - PLONK" response. Lot of fury, no substance.

Of course, you did not even bother to read my post... I am waiting for you to show how you have staked even your life for an ideal and risked it all... otherwise, you are not qualified to even make these statements to me as you are preaching morals in your underwear.

 

[Radio6]

Re: How droll.

Ignoring all the blathering and "oh my! [yawn] you are so angry, but I am so above it all" posturing going on below, I will note that D.E. skillfully dodges the "radio is losing listeners" line in order to crow about increasing revenue. While currently true, that will change once radio splinters like TV. While I don't have nationwide numbers at hand, I can't imagine that radio has more listeners now than 10 years ago.

[edited for snarkiness]

> > Sorry David.We disagree. Just because we disagree doesn't
> > make my information incorrect by your mere sayso.
>
> Your information on the start of broadcasting and on the
> regulatory backgroud that evolved into the service
> requirements imposed on licencees was incorrect or poorly
> stated at best.
>
> > I am not
> > INCORRECT by any means..period. In your narrow scope of
> > things you only see only the corner of the frame of a
> > portrait. That is common with you when you seek to distort
>
> > another's information justifying radios fall.
>
> Radio has not fallen. Let's start there. It _is_ in a slower
> growth mode, but it is also over 80 years old, in full
> maturation, and this can be expected. But as long as
> revenues are up and listenership qualifies it as a mass
> medium, there is no "fall."
>
> Either you can not tell the difference between hyperbole and
> fact, or you are just plain negative. May I have the
> envelope, please?
>
> > You don't
> > care as long as your wallet bulges while many have lost
> > their jobs.
>
> Technology has caused more job changes than consolidation.
> In fact, radio employment is up... just not in on air
> positons.
>
> This is similar to the bitching about GM letting go of
> 30,000 employees last year. Per the Department of Labor,
> 30,000 new jobs are created _weekly_ in the USA. Some old
> jobs disappear. I just looked for chimney sweeps, buggy whip
> makers and shaving cream cakes in the Yellow Pages and found
> none of them. Do you suppose that some of this is
> evolutionary?
>
> > Your gluttony is apparent. Carl Ichan who has
> > brought down many businesses and ruined people's lives
> just
> > so he could increase his bank account would be so proud
> of
> > you.I am sure you will accept that as a compliment.
>
> Icahn is a raider. He is not an operator or even an officer
> of companies he raids. He targets companies whose assets are
> worth more than market value, and buys enough stock to get
> on the board, get assets sold off, and profit. I am not a
> radio investor any more... I am an employee of a radio
> company and am in it, as always, for the long term.
>
> > Your
> > soul purpose in coming to this board is not to share but
> to
> > bring that same bitter mentality that you don't have
> enough
> > to control.You seek to control information especially if
> it
> > runs contrary to your own.
>
> I seek, in this thread, to correct misinformation,
> princiaplly from you, that goes back to the time of Marconi.
>
>
> > You didn't grow up in DFW
>
> 40% of Americans live sowmewhere else than where they were
> born. I moved a half dozen times before I was 25, so I am
> used to developing a passion for wherever I may be. HAving
> grown up in a place is no guarantee for being able to do
> go9od radio there.
>
> > so you
> > don't have the passion for the market or the care for its
> > people but you want to influence and control it all the
> same
> > so your check book swells.
>
> I have worked for a Dallas company and Dallas stations for
> 12 years. My first Dallas job was for Swanco in 1979. I
> probably have more Dallas experience than a significant
> percentage of those working in the market today. Of course,
> this is neither here nor their as your original point was
> about "serving communities" and all I did was point out
> that to some poeple playing soft hits _was_ a service.
>
> > My career has flourished by not
> > allowing you and others like you exerting control over
> it
> > with your luke warm ideas and your cruelty to others. You
> > lead a dark life that gets simple pleasure stirring things
>
> > up, and take glee when your name or anything REMOTELY
> > related to you is mentioned.
>
> You are glorifying a city board read by, at most, a few
> hundred people. I enjoy the exchanges, usually, and learn a
> lot researching the things that make me thing where I am
> uncertain. The problem, almost unique to this board, is that
> there are some disgruntled Luddites who do not realize
> _everything_ in America and the world is changing faster
> than at any time in history. And several use inaccurate
> interpretations of the past of wrong facts to make points
> (I´m reminded of an acrimonious thread a year ago where
> several folks swore that XEG had been in Cd. Acuña when it
> never was anywhere but Monterrey... typical of this
> obstructionist, inaccurate thinking.)
>
> This is still a fun board. Nobody will live or die over it,
> though. For me, it kills time in airports and hotels. And
> some of the posts make me check facts and I learn form that.
>
>
> > Your email alerts make you
> > scramble because you checked off the little box alert.
>
> Perhaps, if any of the moderators cares, they can verify
> that I do not get e mail alerts. Never have. So much for yet
> another of your assumptions. You are about oh for seven
> today.
>
> > How
> > dare someone respond to you,blasphemy in your corner
> world.
> > Perhaps that maybe the only attention you will ever or
> have
> > ever received.Any attention done in person is most likely
> > artificial and done in fear of someone losing their
> job,plus
> > feeling they could no longer feed the family if you
> simply
> > dismissed them.
>
> I don´t know how to respond to this, as it is so convoluted
> as to be uninteligible. Are you heated up? Breathe deeply,
> and go for a walk. Ponder the deep wisdom of "writing is
> easier to read if broken into paragraphs" while you are
> out. Chill.
>
> > You sleep well no need to ask about
> > that,but your heart beats differently than many who love
> > this industry. Calling you a vulture would be an insult to
>
> > vultures.
>
> Have you been drinking? This is going downhill. Do you
> always react this way to being corrected when you mis-state
> facts? At least Marconi is dead, so he won't care that you
> did not get what he was trying to do.
>
> > You are in a class by yourself, and that is what
> > you are all about "BY YOURSELF".You strike at others as a
> > result.It's all you can do in your self absorbed prison.
> > Strike all you want,and you will,but you will never hit
> the
> > target. Your consistent failure will take its toll,its
> only
> > a matter of time.Many will smile and describe it as
> > justified.Listen..your email alert is sounding To arms!!
>
>
> In a newsgroup, this would qualify you for the "Troll Alert
> - PLONK" response. Lot of fury, no substance.
>
> Of course, you did not even bother to read my post... I am
> waiting for you to show how you have staked even your life
> for an ideal and risked it all... otherwise, you are not
> qualified to even make these statements to me as you are
> preaching morals in your underwear.
> <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Radio6 on 01/09/06 05:13 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Re: For those expecting reregulation...

> So, radio was transformed by commercial interests. Most of
> the first broadcasters, at least those that survived more
> than a brief period, had one of two agendas. First, to sell
> radios, like Westinghouse. Second, to brand products, like
> National Life and Casualty Insurance.

National Life and ACCIDENT Insurance was the owner of WSM, ``We
Shield Millions''. Down a few streets was the competition, Life and
CASUALTY and its radio companson, WLAC.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: How droll.

> Ignoring all the blathering and "oh my! [yawn] you are so
> angry, but I am so above it all" posturing going on below, I
> will note that D.E. skillfully dodges the "radio is losing
> listeners" line in order to crow about increasing revenue.
> While currently true, that will change once radio splinters
> like TV. While I don't have nationwide numbers at hand, I
> can't imagine that radio has more listeners now than 10
> years ago.

No, it does not. For some reason, there was a peak in listening in the late 80's. Some feel it had to do with improvements in Arbitron measurement, and others believe it was real. Whatever the sase, the peak years for reach and TSL were around 1987 and 1988.

Currently, radio reaches between 93% and 94% of all Americans each week (cume) while the TSL per person is around 20 hours a week.

In the Garay biography of Gordon McLendon (UT-Lubbock Press) there is reference to a study done just before the TV freeze was lifted. The average American, around 1950, listened to 21 hours of radio a week.

Despite TV, cable TV, HBO, 8-Tracks, CDs, cassettes, the Internet, video games, computers, wifi, iPods and all the other new technologies, radio has remained fairly constant and within a very, very narrow range of listening, buth cume and TSL.

Interestingly, in the larger markets, the listening is much closer to the 21 hour 1950 level. It is in makrets like Allentown and Scranton where the listening is below 18 hours a week... perhaps becaus ethe ocmbination of small makret budgets and limited variety of signals has more to do with listening levels than "radio the medium" does.

That said, there is nothing wroig with tracking radio by revenues, as it is fundamentally a business. It is obvious that network and off air tv have been affected by cable, but the measure of the viability of both has to do with revenue.

The fact is taht radio has had remarkabley little loss of listenership, given the immense competiton for leisure or entertainment time. And revenues have grown every year except that one where we had an economic downturn and the unfortunate event of 9/11 together in 12 months... a time when all media and, indeed, the US economy were off even more than radio was.

Nobody denies that there is a rapid change in technologies going on. But to say radio is dying is a major exaggeration, and to say it is losing when it is gaining in revenue is also a distortion of fact.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: For those expecting reregulation...

> > So, radio was transformed by commercial interests. Most of
>
> > the first broadcasters, at least those that survived more
> > than a brief period, had one of two agendas. First, to
> sell
> > radios, like Westinghouse. Second, to brand products, like
>
> > National Life and Casualty Insurance.
>
> National Life and ACCIDENT Insurance was the owner of WSM,
> ``We
> Shield Millions''. Down a few streets was the competition,
> Life and
> CASUALTY and its radio companson, WLAC.

Thank you. I shoud have stuck with the sure thing, "World's Largest Store."

Although WSM has one of the few remaining Blaw Knox towers, and WLS does not.

 

[AliceTheCook]

Re: How droll.

to say it is losing when it is gaining in revenue is
> also a distortion of fact.

OK, consider that we're not talking constants in listenership. Radio has fought back by re-aiming small-town stations towards the nearest large (more revenue-producing) market. So the DFW pie, for example, is now slivered into roughly 60 stations now, up from roughly 36 ten years ago. Certainly not all of these rimshots get a real slice of the pie, but consider the former KAND-Corsicana, a station that MAY, once possibly in 1984 or 1985, have topped out at a 0.1 rating in DFW. Then the last book comes out, with the new 107.9 occupant sitting at #1! So now a former small-town station that dumped out of their community for the Big Bucks in DFW becomes a major player. Hats off to the owner, and hats over your hearts for the people of Corsicana, who no longer have a station serving their community.

So, although the ratings per station are all smaller (the top station here 15 years ago could easily achieve a 10.0, while #1 today can maybe muster a 5.0 consistently,) the revenues are the same or higher. That's not much of a value for the advertiser to pay more for less, and when you get 4 companies holding 90% of the full-stick stations in one market, just how hard is it to fix prices on spots? And when you have Clear Channel and Infinity sales reps trying to sell "one stop shopping" with 4 to 5 stations/billboards/etc in one package, you end up with a client ultimately paying an inflated price for an ad on KRLD just to get a prime spot on KLUV. There's where your revenue gets grossly skewed.

I think you have a point with your argument, but for all the wrong reasons. The distribution of revenue is not the same. The number of players is not the same. You now also have a great and fast-growing number of Hispanic listeners in DFW that may not have the funds for, nor interest in, iPODs and other newfangled concepts, relying mainly on their community-based Hispanic station for entertainment and news. I would venture to say that the biggest drop in listenership to terrestrial radio has most to do with white and black audiences, but with ratings divided chiefly amongst ages and sexes and not race, this difference is basically hidden and overlooked, and consultants and salesmen can run around with the ARB's in hand, saying, 'Lookie here, listenership is up! Revenues are up!' when in reality, the strong Hispanic dependence on radio is covering up the big loss of white and blacks to other entertainment sources. And really, it's those Hispanic listeners that cost so much more to satisfy. They EXPECT jocks to talk to them. They EXPECT events and contests that cater to their lifestyle. They EXPECT a 'friend' in their station. The cost per listener must be exorbitant. Those poor corporations, realizing only 60-80% profit off those pesky 'brown people'.

And if we can agree that most Hispanics feel a stronger need for community and commonality than their non-Hispanic counterparts, and that their terrestrial radio stations provide that for them, who's to say that the white and black audiences just might still appreciate some of that sense of community at THEIR stations, too (like we once had)? Or have some consultants just gone and figured that whites and blacks are beyond that now, and will readily accept faceless, generic, voicetracked, liner-card-reading schlock without a second thought?

 

[Musicradio]

"The music changes on the station are pretty subtle," says Nikki Nite, the station's program director. "The call letters, KVIL, stand for a lot of things, a lot of really wonderful things that were part of a great history on that radio station. But some of the things that KVIL stands for are not relevant to today."




So sad....to lose such a large part of Dallas radio history.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: How droll.

Alice, these are all good points and I'm glad we have finally gotten some intelligence in the dialogue thanks to you. You really bring up interesting and valid and real issues.

> So, although the ratings per station are all smaller (the
> top station here 15 years ago could easily achieve a 10.0,
> while #1 today can maybe muster a 5.0 consistently,) the
> revenues are the same or higher. That's not much of a value
> for the advertiser to pay more for less, and when you get 4
> companies holding 90% of the full-stick stations in one
> market, just how hard is it to fix prices on spots?

Radio advertising in larger markedts (I mean most rated markets) is priced by nummber of listeners, and the metric is CPP, or cost per rating point (which is a percentage of the local MSA universe). In Dallas, or in Dayton or in Des Moines, the CPP is adjusted to reflect the number of people in each MSA. A Dallas point will be much more than a Dayton one, and the Dayton one more than Des Moines.

Prices are set by a "how many listeners does a point represent" formula by ad agencies, and buys are pretty much "talke it or leave it" in transactional buisness. There is no opportunity for statins to drive the pricing by much more than the standard multiples. What is generaly seen is that one or more operators undercuts to get more business.

In smaller markets, pricing is pretty dynamic, generally finding a level that is appropriate for the amount of competiton and the results the station gives advertisers.

> And
> when you have Clear Channel and Infinity sales reps trying
> to sell "one stop shopping" with 4 to 5
> stations/billboards/etc in one package, you end up with a
> client ultimately paying an inflated price for an ad on KRLD
> just to get a prime spot on KLUV. There's where your
> revenue gets grossly skewed.


In practice, this is not true. The fact is, agencies buy around overpriced statins all the time, and the stations usually cave the next time. Since most buys are against bery specific demos, like Men 35-44, and no station generally even gets a 10 share in any one demo, there are a dozen or so very viable buy arounds for all clients. And agencies know that every listener has about 3 or more stations they listen to, so if they have to pass on a high priced station, they will get those listeners on one of the other choices.

Again, radio has nearly no ability to overprice itself, but is constantly underpricing itself. Were this not true, the growth of radio revenues nationally would be much higher since consolidation than before, and that is not true. In fact, revenue growth has slowed a bit.
>
> I think you have a point with your argument, but for all the
> wrong reasons. The distribution of revenue is not the same.
> The number of players is not the same.

For an agency, the numbe rof players in neearly every market is the same or greater. Clients buy stations, not companies.

FYI, the revenue comparisons I made are national, not DFW. This market has grown much faster, given the population increases and the increase in Hispanic population and attractiveness of same to advertisers. Since 1999 to 2005, market billings are up by about 28%, in fact, way ahead of the national average.

> You now also have a
> great and fast-growing number of Hispanic listeners in DFW
> that may not have the funds for, nor interest in, iPODs and
> other newfangled concepts, relying mainly on their
> community-based Hispanic station for entertainment and news.

Except for KFLC, the Hispanic stations are no more nor no less community based than the average FM in the market. They have morning shows (most syndicated) and play music. Several are 100% satellite, like KZMP and KTCY. One, KEGL is swatellite delivered except for PM drive... etc.

So if you believe that ther eis some magic community driven factor here, there is not. these are simply stations appealing to different format needs, just like general market.

> I would venture to say that the biggest drop in
> listenership to terrestrial radio has most to do with white
> and black audiences, but with ratings divided chiefly
> amongst ages and sexes and not race, this difference is
> basically hidden and overlooked, and consultants and
> salesmen can run around with the ARB's in hand, saying,
> 'Lookie here, listenership is up! Revenues are up!' when in
> reality, the strong Hispanic dependence on radio is covering
> up the big loss of white and blacks to other entertainment
> sources.

A tiny bit of this is valid. Black listenership parallels Hispanic listenership. White 18-54 is very similar. The losses are in teens and older listeners. And the reason is simple: advertisers hardly ever buy those demos, so terrestrial radio does not seve them and they do not come to the party as often.

> And really, it's those Hispanic listeners that
> cost so much more to satisfy. They EXPECT jocks to talk to
> them. They EXPECT events and contests that cater to their
> lifestyle. They EXPECT a 'friend' in their station. The
> cost per listener must be exorbitant. Those poor
> corporations, realizing only 60-80% profit off those pesky
> 'brown people'.

I don't think the cost of operation of an Hispanic station is much more than any comparable English format. In fact, as you can see, in Dallas, the leading Spanish station is coming from a studio in Salinas and putting the same format on 15 different stations with no localization except in one shift. that is LESS expensive.
>
> And if we can agree that most Hispanics feel a stronger need
> for community and commonality than their non-Hispanic
> counterparts, and that their terrestrial radio stations
> provide that for them,

Well, since the #1 Hispanic station proves this wrong, I would say we do not agree.

> who's to say that the white and black
> audiences just might still appreciate some of that sense of
> community at THEIR stations, too (like we once had)? Or
> have some consultants just gone and figured that whites and
> blacks are beyond that now, and will readily accept
> faceless, generic, voicetracked, liner-card-reading schlock
> without a second thought?

Some Hispanic listeners do not want news an lots of talk all the time. Some want it at no time. Some want it at certain times. Just like non-Hispanic whites.
>

 

[edwardrmurrow]

> > Beautifully said. You could say the same thing about the
> > efforts of companies and so-called "PDs" to remake
> stations
> > in all major markets and many medium and small markets!
> >
> > By the way, is your screen name from The Brady Bunch?
> >
> Or it is a take of on "Allistair Cook"
>
> I always felt over 25 years ago that KLIF should have gone
> over to the FM side with its music format of oldies and be a
> success like WCBS-FM was before its recent debacle. It
> worked in San Antonio with KONO, and today they are number
> 2.
> Running away from a station's heritage and legacy and the
> need to "Be hip" with today is ridiculous. Nikki supposedly
> is a talented PD from what I hear,but as I also outlined
> before if she kneels to the VP of PD's in New York, KVIL
> will only get worse and never ever be a player again. To
> have her dismiss KVIL's history without so much as having
> live here,and listened to the station during its two decades
> of being a power is a definition of ignorance to the max.
> Gene and Hulie have been here long enough and they have not
> been successful. To retain them is not the idea of the local
> management but someone in New York obviously. A chief reason
> Smokey left. We can moan about KVIL and what it has become
> and mourn,but it doesn't matter. Common sense,resposibility
> to the area of license,and caring about its station as well
> as the listening public is no longer in the minds of
> corporate ownership,especially CBS and Clear Channel. The
> statement that "Radio is a business" by others only under
> scores the ignorance about radio itself. When radio first
> started it served ships at sea,it was used for local police
> and fire dispatch. It was and remains (thank God) a LICENSE
> TO SERVE THE PUBLIC. NOT one company who owns any station
> also owns that given frequency. THE PUBLIC OWNS IT. RADIO IS
> A SERVICE!Any consultant who states otherwise speaks for
> their personal wallet not the public interest and could
> careless about the citizenry.If they make money at the
> public's expense,so be it.The resident consultant I am sure
> will come in and refute all of this.That is his nature and
> further demonstrate that he is not a broadcaster and has no
> regards to ever be one. Meanwhile Radio is losing
> listeners,and ads are down all because corporate owners
> have turned their back on the public.
>
Well said!!The CONsultant won't get it or admit it and will state you are wrong. The big difference is,you have a life,and talk plus listen to the people I am sure. The CONsultant has no people skills and doesn't interact except with other like minded CONsultants.One thing stands out,they give a new diffinition to the word "arrogant".