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Ford factory HD Radio coming!

Mike Walker said:
You answer my charge that you have no personal experience (positive or negative) with HD Radio to relate, so you simply parrot links to the comments of others, by posting more links to the comments of others.

I acknowledge that some have had negative experiences. Why do you find it impossible to accept that others have had equally positive experiences...even when I post audio samples proving that HD works, and works even in deep fringe locaions like mine?

No, I already tried HD Radio, but was totally unimpressed with this fraud. We are just taking your word for it, that this recording was done over an HD Radio, and that you are in a fringe area, and if true, probably have a roof-top, or attic dipole hooked up. So, you will have to prove your claims, before I will believe you ! I might add, nice promotional piece ! :D
 
thats the same old information, they (visteon) released in december 2005
http://www.visteon.com/products/automotive/media/hdradio_spec.pdf
fords media buyer, has since warned all in broadcasting to fix the content first,before all is lost to other platforms.

ford link has launched,ford sync to launch...

ford even suggested to think about teaming up with satellite radio for some reason.

ford buys most top end units from other suppliers I would not be surprised if they sell off visteon....
 
I absolutely LOVE the denial on this board. It's going to make it just that much sweeter when you're all eating crow.

I present to you, the Delphi - GM factory HD Radio! ;D

http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/audio/ans/hd/

They'll even be demoing it at CES: Delphi - North Hall, #5206

As will Visteon: Visteon - North Hall #6427

Visteon is even holding a press conference at CES to show off their new HD radio offerings! Next Tuesday at 10:30AM.
 
ElCheapo said:
I absolutely LOVE the denial on this board. It's going to make it just that much sweeter when you're all eating crow.

I present to you, the Delphi - GM factory HD Radio! ;D

http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/audio/ans/hd/

They'll even be demoing it at CES: Delphi - North Hall, #5206

As will Visteon: Visteon - North Hall #6427

Visteon is even holding a press conference at CES to show off their new HD radio offerings! Next Tuesday at 10:30AM.
:D

You are just overreacting, now that you know table-top HD Radio sales have been a miserable failure ! :D Looks like, there won't be too many folks at the HD Radio booths:

"Tomorrow's Satellite Radio..."

http://www.hear2.com/2007/01/tomorrows_satel.html#comments

"Once again, can commercial radio do this? Probably not, as long as their focus is on owning radio stations."

Oh my, you have so derailed this board ! :D
 
ElCheapo said:
I absolutely LOVE the denial on this board. It's going to make it just that much sweeter when you're all eating crow.

El Cheapo,

I'm certainly not in denial about the pros and cons of this technology, and with a few very notable exceptions, I don't think too many of the other folks that you'll find on this board are either. Clearly, the market is going to decide this and there is little that any of us can do about that, one way or the other.

Your unbridled enthusiasm makes me question your motives for your posts, just about as much as 700WLW's. What's in it for you? Or is this just a pissing match? You otherwise seem to be a reasonable guy. We might even enjoy hashing out the good and the bad over a couple of beers...

I also find myself getting weary of Mr. Crosley’s repetitious posts, although he’s probably an OK guy too.

Do you think we could agree to limit discussion to the topic at hand, and keep the personal jabs out of it? It’s getting really old.
 
Chuck said:
El Cheapo,

I'm certainly not in denial about the pros and cons of this technology, and with a few very notable exceptions, I don't think too many of the other folks that you'll find on this board are either. Clearly, the market is going to decide this and there is little that any of us can do about that, one way or the other.

Your unbridled enthusiasm makes me question your motives for your posts, just about as much as 700WLW's. What's in it for you? Or is this just a pissing match? You otherwise seem to be a reasonable guy. We might even enjoy hashing out the good and the bad over a couple of beers...

I also find myself getting weary of Mr. Crosley’s repetitious posts, although he’s probably an OK guy too.

Do you think we could agree to limit discussion to the topic at hand, and keep the personal jabs out of it? It’s getting really old.

Your observation is dead-on Chuck. As I've said before, I'd like nothing more than to be able to come here and have an intelligent conversation or two about the technology as well as the programming and marketing for it. Unfortunately, there is an element here that makes that all but impossible.

This board could really prosper if this sophomoric element were to disappear or be curbed, but that's exactly what he doesn't want and for whatever reason - the moderators seem inclined to let him have his way.
 
700WLW said:
ElCheapo said:
I absolutely LOVE the denial on this board. It's going to make it just that much sweeter when you're all eating crow.

I present to you, the Delphi - GM factory HD Radio! ;D

http://www.delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/audio/ans/hd/

They'll even be demoing it at CES: Delphi - North Hall, #5206

As will Visteon: Visteon - North Hall #6427

Visteon is even holding a press conference at CES to show off their new HD radio offerings! Next Tuesday at 10:30AM.
:D

You are just overreacting, now that you know table-top HD Radio sales have been a miserable failure ! :D Looks like, there won't be too many folks at the HD Radio booths:

"Tomorrow's Satellite Radio..."

http://www.hear2.com/2007/01/tomorrows_satel.html#comments

"Once again, can commercial radio do this? Probably not, as long as their focus is on owning radio stations."

Oh my, you have so derailed this board ! :D

I've derailed the board? In a post about satellite radio - misplaced on the HD Radio board - you're saying I've derailed the board?

Talk about irony...

See Chuck, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
 
ElCheapo said:
I've derailed the board? In a post about satellite radio - misplaced on the HD Radio board - you're saying I've derailed the board?

Talk about irony...

See Chuck, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

So why bother to reply to every post to some obscure blog? That's what he wants you to do...
 
Chuck said:
So why bother to reply to every post to some obscure blog? That's what he wants you to do...

No, I really think his goal is nothing less than the complete destruction of HD Radio.

He's just found a programming guy who clearly knows little to nothing about technology to quote.

The problem with this particular programming guy is he is trying to sell his insight about future-tech, which is surprisingly limited. He's dealing entirely in what-if scenarios, and if challenged on any of the technology will basically respond with analogies to past technologies and how they've progressed.

His position is that technology will provide - period. He has no idea how.

He really doesn't have much insight to sell.
 
Chuck said:
ElCheapo said:
I absolutely LOVE the denial on this board. It's going to make it just that much sweeter when you're all eating crow.

El Cheapo,

I'm certainly not in denial about the pros and cons of this technology, and with a few very notable exceptions, I don't think too many of the other folks that you'll find on this board are either. Clearly, the market is going to decide this and there is little that any of us can do about that, one way or the other.

Your unbridled enthusiasm makes me question your motives for your posts, just about as much as 700WLW's. What's in it for you? Or is this just a pissing match? You otherwise seem to be a reasonable guy. We might even enjoy hashing out the good and the bad over a couple of beers...

I also find myself getting weary of Mr. Crosley’s repetitious posts, although he’s probably an OK guy too.

Do you think we could agree to limit discussion to the topic at hand, and keep the personal jabs out of it? It’s getting really old.

Well Chucky, I am just an AM DX'er, who knows this defective technology will put an end to. BTW, the Mr. Crosley, with the, "such a clever name, I can't belive he thought of it", was banned from this board, for antagonizing the moderators - he posted a pathetic thread on the "other" board, to that effect ! :D
 
Back to the topic at hand, it is significant that Detroit is planning on making HD radios available. It will take that for the technology to be even a minimal success. That said, it would still be up to the public to determine if it is a significant leap forward or not. Many new car radios still decode AM stereo, and that isn't a technology that has the attention of your average radio listener. Most don't even know it exists, although they may already own a radio that can actually enjoy the benefit.

Even with car radios on the horizon, HD is a very long-term solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. Without proper care and handling, it is likely to get left in the dust of other technologies and distractions that can and do enjoy much more explosive growth. So far, the “Cartel” has done a miserable job on that front. Devices like the iPod are radio's competition, at least until radio gets back to offering content that I can't carry around in my pocket.

Like El Cheapo, I bought a new car this fall. It does not have HD, but it does have XM, a nice CD player and a jack for an iPod or other device. Unless I wreck the car it will probably be 5-6 years before I get another one. I'm not very inclined to get an outboard HD decoder device to plug into the radio without some very compelling reason to do so. I think that is fairly typical of most people. A lot can happen technology wise before I buy a new vehicle, so I’ll choose to do without it for now.

Speaking as a small station operator, doing without HD is also my choice for now. It simply makes no sense to "take a flyer" on something that may or may not work out. I think most small station owner/operators feel that way. At very best, HD will take an additional five years after the radios first appear in cars to become slightly viable. That's assuming that the car buying cycle for new cars is about every five years. Until that point, it is an expensive way to reach very few people. I'm fairly sure that my small radio stations has about as many listeners on line as most HD-2 stations have over the air. Streaming is certainly a lot cheaper and easier to do. Right now, streaming doesn’t make much money either.

We all know there are some technology issues with HD that may or may not be resolved. Beyond that, there are some very large business issues that simply don't make sense for your average broadcaster. To me that is the real issue. If there are good sound business reasons to make a technology work, then someone will figure them out. Unfortunately, I don't see the reward in that. At least for now, HD is nothing to get worked up over. There is no hurry to convert to digital radio. The money could be put to much better use in programming and promotion of what you already have. Unless you like spending money for the bragging rights, "No thanks, not right now," is probably the appropriate answer for most broadcasters.
 
700WLW said:
[Well Chucky, I am just an AM DX'er, who knows this defective technology will put an end to. BTW, the Mr. Crosley, with the, "such a clever name, I can't belive he thought of it", was banned from this board, for antagonizing the moderators - he posted a pathetic thread on the "other" board, to that effect ! :D

Whatever....
 
ElCheapo said:
Chuck said:
So why bother to reply to every post to some obscure blog? That's what he wants you to do...

No, I really think his goal is nothing less than the complete destruction of HD Radio.

He's just found a programming guy who clearly knows little to nothing about technology to quote.

The problem with this particular programming guy is he is trying to sell his insight about future-tech, which is surprisingly limited. He's dealing entirely in what-if scenarios, and if challenged on any of the technology will basically respond with analogies to past technologies and how they've progressed.

His position is that technology will provide - period. He has no idea how.

He really doesn't have much insight to sell.

Yes, this destuctive technology must be wiped from the face of the earth ! :D Well, looking at "Google Trends", with 75% of Americans aware of HD Radio, looks like they are not too interested, with just a few tens-of-thousands of HD Radios sold, and consumer interest is waning:

http://www.google.com/trends?q="hd+radio"
 
Chuck said:
Back to the topic at hand, it is significant that Detroit is planning on making HD radios available.

Two problems:

1) New technologies, such as Sync and next-generation Satellite Radio, are due in-dash, next year.
2) With the almost total failure of table-top HD Radio, consumers have already indicated that they are not interested in investing in this defective technology.
 
700WLW said:
Two problems:

1) New technologies, such as Sync and next-generation Satellite Radio, are due in-dash, next year.
2) With the almost total failure of table-top HD Radio, consumers have already indicated that they are not interested in investing in this defective technology.

That may be. Time will tell. That's why I don't see a sound business model for this stuff.
 
Chuck said:
700WLW said:
Two problems:

1) New technologies, such as Sync and next-generation Satellite Radio, are due in-dash, next year.
2) With the almost total failure of table-top HD Radio, consumers have already indicated that they are not interested in investing in this defective technology.

That may be. Time will tell. That's why I don't see a sound business model for this stuff.

Well, I am sure, the experts have already looked into the business-model, unlike HD Radio. Unlike HD Radio, consumer demand, will drive this technology:

"Meet your new competition"

"And that's a key distinction differentiating these services from satellite and HD radio - both of which need both selling and buying. And right now there's a whole lot of the former going on and not enough of the latter. By necessity, satellite is already branching into video and WiFi solutions while HD radio is still trying to emerge from its shell. This is not a good time to emerge from a shell without peeking into the big wide world first to see what awaits you."

http://www.hear2.com/2006/12/meet_your_new_c.html

HD Radio - too little, too late ! :D
 
Chuck said:
Back to the topic at hand, it is significant that Detroit is planning on making HD radios available. It will take that for the technology to be even a minimal success. That said, it would still be up to the public to determine if it is a significant leap forward or not. Many new car radios still decode AM stereo, and that isn't a technology that has the attention of your average radio listener. Most don't even know it exists, although they may already own a radio that can actually enjoy the benefit.

Even with car radios on the horizon, HD is a very long-term solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. Without proper care and handling, it is likely to get left in the dust of other technologies and distractions that can and do enjoy much more explosive growth. So far, the “Cartel” has done a miserable job on that front. Devices like the iPod are radio's competition, at least until radio gets back to offering content that I can't carry around in my pocket.

Like El Cheapo, I bought a new car this fall. It does not have HD, but it does have XM, a nice CD player and a jack for an iPod or other device. Unless I wreck the car it will probably be 5-6 years before I get another one. I'm not very inclined to get an outboard HD decoder device to plug into the radio without some very compelling reason to do so. I think that is fairly typical of most people. A lot can happen technology wise before I buy a new vehicle, so I’ll choose to do without it for now.

Speaking as a small station operator, doing without HD is also my choice for now. It simply makes no sense to "take a flyer" on something that may or may not work out. I think most small station owner/operators feel that way. At very best, HD will take an additional five years after the radios first appear in cars to become slightly viable. That's assuming that the car buying cycle for new cars is about every five years. Until that point, it is an expensive way to reach very few people. I'm fairly sure that my small radio stations has about as many listeners on line as most HD-2 stations have over the air. Streaming is certainly a lot cheaper and easier to do. Right now, streaming doesn’t make much money either.

We all know there are some technology issues with HD that may or may not be resolved. Beyond that, there are some very large business issues that simply don't make sense for your average broadcaster. To me that is the real issue. If there are good sound business reasons to make a technology work, then someone will figure them out. Unfortunately, I don't see the reward in that. At least for now, HD is nothing to get worked up over. There is no hurry to convert to digital radio. The money could be put to much better use in programming and promotion of what you already have. Unless you like spending money for the bragging rights, "No thanks, not right now," is probably the appropriate answer for most broadcasters.

There have been a lot of comparisons here between AM Stereo and HD Radio. I assume that's because this forum is dominated by anti-HD types and AM Stereo failed. The analogy just doesn't work though because the difference between the two is night and day.

OK... For AM, it might work - because AM HD is all about improving audio quality.

For FM however, it's an entirely different story. Multicasting is really what FM HD is all about.

AM Stereo offered enhanced audio quality. FM HD offers more programming choices.

While I don't deny radio could use some improvement overall in the programming department, it is still the medium where most people learn about new music. I realize as the operator of a station that mostly plays deceased artists, you may not see or understand that - but that is truly how it is.

Personally, I wouldn't be in a hurry to add HD Radio to KZQX either. I suspect it wouldn't do much at all for a station with an ERP of 74 watts. I'd be willing to bet less than a watt of HD Radio wouldn't get very far.

You might have something if they would allow HD on your translator in Kilgore - 25 watts - but you probably wouldn't get very far with the less than half a watt of IBOC power on your translator in Longview.

I agree. HD Radio makes no sense for you at all.
 
ElCheapo said:
Personally, I wouldn't be in a hurry to add HD Radio to KZQX either. I suspect it wouldn't do much at all for a station with an ERP of 74 watts. I'd be willing to bet less than a watt of HD Radio wouldn't get very far.

You might have something if they would allow HD on your translator in Kilgore - 25 watts - but you probably wouldn't get very far with the less than half a watt of IBOC power on your translator in Longview.

I agree. HD Radio makes no sense for you at all.

I don't think it make much sense for any small broadcaster with a power under 5000 watts or so. (Maybe more.) In our case, I doubt that less than a watt of HD would make it around the block. In the case of a 5000 watt station, it would only be 50 watts HD. That might work in a car, but I doubt it would penetrate most buildings.

FYI, translators can have HD if they want to. Armstrong is selling the equipment. My question is "Why?" A 250 watt translator would have 2.5 watts HD (not 25). I can't imagine that covering much more than downtown Kilgore, where the transmitter is located. It's a total waste.

On the other hand, using Longley-Rice predictions, the three stations give reasonably decent coverage to well over 100,000 people in analog. As I've been pointing out, there is a point of diminishing returns with HD.

I may have my numbers wrong, but I believe there are nearly 5000 translators and LPFM's on the air. Unless the FCC decides to dump all the pending applications for new translators, there are a ton more on the way. They got 13,400 or so applications for translators in the last filing window. Your "powerful lobby group,” NAB is working hard to give small AM day-timers their own FM translators. That is even more low power radio to look forward to.

Right now, I believe there are a little over 13,500 radio stations in total, not counting translators, although I'm fairly sure the 900 LPFM's are included in that figure. I could be off on my numbers, but I think they are in the ball park. The point is there are a lot of radio stations that suffer from low power. Nearly 30% of existing transmitting facilities may be less than 250 watts. If you add in all the Class A stations, I'll bet that figure climbs to better than 50%. Maybe a LOT more. Not everyone is a 50-100 KW flame thrower. As you agree, this technology is not going to work for these small stations. I see that as a huge flaw, unless the intent is to simply make small stations disappear. Unfortunately, my darker side suspects that is the case....
 
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